My BIGGEST issue in this game..... Guild Traders

Gidorick

Hammy01 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I agree that it can be very unfair, but it IS fair in the manner that it mimics a real world scenario. I feel your proposal could be somewhat of an issue to role players as well, who would prefer to travel distant lands in hope of finding better deals, or those who stick to only purchasing from their city of choice lol

How does the current ESO example mimic the real world? As a buyer I have the internet to do a quick price check on just about anything I want thus I don't have to spend all day going from one city to another trying to find the best deal on a new LCD tv.. just a quick google and it is done!!

Err... in medieval times (which is the closest real-world era that ESO is set in) there was no internet. Realistic in the sense that it "preserves the reality" of the game.

Pallmor

Eshelmen wrote: »

If Guild Traders are here to stay , fine. But at least make all items searchable at once. This would save everyone time and money on bid wars, and it makes everyone equal to buying/selling.

Hardcore traders hate auction houses because it drives down prices. And a universally searchable database would functionally be the same as an auction house. It would drive prices down as each seller is forced to compete with EVERYONE.

Personally, I love the idea of an auction house myself. Even though I'm in several trade guilds and I make decent money selling, the huge benefit that I would get as a buyer would be worth it. And I usually sell my stuff pretty cheap anyway, just to move it.

Tannakaobi

Gidorick wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

RatedChaotic wrote: »

Ok the auction horse is getting very old. The more times I see it the more I think...wow how did humans advance this far?....

I've not seen it before, but to me it's a poor imitation of the flogging the dead horse that someone came up with for a combat dummy, which was unique and interesting. Now it's possible that I'm backwards on originality here. But meh!

One thing I really dislike is trying to be different, just to be different and then calling it unique, especially when it's detrimental to whatever is in question.

lordrichter wrote: »

While I hate to say this, people should not be wishing for an Auction House in ESO. This is the company that took over a year to put the name of the item that sold in the notification mail, and we still do not know what Guild Store sold it. Consider the design of the UI and search capabilities, and remember that this is the company that delivered the current guild store interface. Now imagine ZOS writing an auction house with a million items for sale across any large portion of the game. If this does not scare you, you fail to understand the situation.

That is probably the best reason for not having an auction house.... that's really sad. It begs the question, how can Zos be so good at some things and then so bad at others.

yea yea @Tannakaobi. Same dude. Me.

Auction Horse: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159594/eso-needs-an-auction-horse-expanded-concept/p1

Target Dummy: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/172547/target-training-dummies-concept/p1

The Auction Horse is less a "beating a dead horse" joke as it is a pun on the term "auction house". Similar origins though. Glad you made the connection between the two concepts.

If you guys can get past the pun of the concept and actually consider what it's suggesting I think you may just like the idea.

I had a feeling it would be the same person to be honest, the artwork was very similar, and hats off to you for your take on target dummies. I don't like the idea of the Auction Horse. I'm sorry, nothing personal though. I do like your art work though. Out of curiosity which idea came first?

Like I've said, the best solution for the auction house/trade guild debate is simply a market place. Where 90% of the guilds can place their sales person.

TheDarkShadow

Well, keep the guild stores if you must, but please add a better search engine to it. May be a Merchant Guild Master of each zone that keep track on all the things the guild traders in THAT ZONE selling, and provide a searching service for people, say 10-100g/search, depend on the level range of that zone. Then you can buy the thing from the Merchant Master, with another fee, or go to that guild trader. Or each guild trader would also provide this searching service. The fee for each search set by guild leader/officers. Then again, you can choose to go to the guild trader who selling that thing, or but it right there at the trader you're searching, and pay a "shipping" fee for that guild. That way I can save my time going from trader to trader.

imnotanother

Hammy01 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I agree that it can be very unfair, but it IS fair in the manner that it mimics a real world scenario. I feel your proposal could be somewhat of an issue to role players as well, who would prefer to travel distant lands in hope of finding better deals, or those who stick to only purchasing from their city of choice lol

How does the current ESO example mimic the real world? As a buyer I have the internet to do a quick price check on just about anything I want thus I don't have to spend all day going from one city to another trying to find the best deal on a new LCD tv.. just a quick google and it is done!!

ESO doesn't have the internet so unless your character is calling himself Al Gore and able to supply such a system, I think you need to live in the digital reality that ESO exist within.

Tannakaobi wrote: »

In times before the internet you'd be surprised to know that they had places you could go and compare prices. Such as markets, city centers and auction houses.

This is where ESO goes wrong. To find some ginger and the best price for ginger you have to go and travel all over Tamriel and spend a good chunk of time doing so. It is ridiculous.

Like I said before, I have no problem with guild traders IF they put them together in the form of a market or something. When I signed up for ESO I did not want a walking/shopping sim!

The only reason that the guild trading system is not horrendous is simply because I don't need to shop all that much in ESO.

You mention markets, almost every city in every region has a "market" with multiple vendors. For example: My guild has a store in Elden Root in the Trunkshade Traders Market

Real life example: I go to a farmer's market to buy my produce and other things. At this market, there is roughly 20 vendors selling mostly the same things. I buy from the ones with great products, great prices, and the ones that are reliable. But my ass has to drive there, get out of the car, and walk around, talk to multiple vendors, and sometimes....get this.... They don't have what I am looking for and I have to go elsewhere. True story, I shop at multiple stores throughout the week to obtain the things I want.

cyx54tc

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/218025/eso-trade-site-preview a third party site for this is being worked on ~

Gidorick

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

RatedChaotic wrote: »

Ok the auction horse is getting very old. The more times I see it the more I think...wow how did humans advance this far?....

I've not seen it before, but to me it's a poor imitation of the flogging the dead horse that someone came up with for a combat dummy, which was unique and interesting. Now it's possible that I'm backwards on originality here. But meh!

One thing I really dislike is trying to be different, just to be different and then calling it unique, especially when it's detrimental to whatever is in question.

lordrichter wrote: »

While I hate to say this, people should not be wishing for an Auction House in ESO. This is the company that took over a year to put the name of the item that sold in the notification mail, and we still do not know what Guild Store sold it. Consider the design of the UI and search capabilities, and remember that this is the company that delivered the current guild store interface. Now imagine ZOS writing an auction house with a million items for sale across any large portion of the game. If this does not scare you, you fail to understand the situation.

That is probably the best reason for not having an auction house.... that's really sad. It begs the question, how can Zos be so good at some things and then so bad at others.

yea yea @Tannakaobi. Same dude. Me.

Auction Horse: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159594/eso-needs-an-auction-horse-expanded-concept/p1

Target Dummy: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/172547/target-training-dummies-concept/p1

The Auction Horse is less a "beating a dead horse" joke as it is a pun on the term "auction house". Similar origins though. Glad you made the connection between the two concepts.

If you guys can get past the pun of the concept and actually consider what it's suggesting I think you may just like the idea.

I had a feeling it would be the same person to be honest, the artwork was very similar, and hats off to you for your take on target dummies. I don't like the idea of the Auction Horse. I'm sorry, nothing personal though. I do like your art work though. Out of curiosity which idea came first?

Like I've said, the best solution for the auction house/trade guild debate is simply a market place. Where 90% of the guilds can place their sales person.

That's fair enough @Tannakaobi. People are free to not like my ideas The auction horse was more an exercise of trying to find a way to include a lore-friendly auction house type system in ESO. I personally disagree with the idea of an auction house. Quite strongly. The auction house concept is flat out wrong for an Elder Scrolls game.

Of course... I'm one that also dislikes that we get emails from "in-game" characters (hirelings)... concept on an in-game courier system here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/173665/courier-s-guild-concept

There are those that have suggested a sort of "Tradebroker Network" that has NPCs with a record of all items in every guild store... these Tradebroker would be in every city and town and you can look through all guild stores that are currently active. You cannot, however, buy anything from these Tradebrokers, and it would cost every time you want to view their wares. Once you find an item you like, you need to travel to the specific kiosk to buy the item you want.

I personally love this idea. it's much more "lore friendly" than other ideas floating around there.

As for which idea came first? I developed and posted the Auction Horse idea first, but I think the Auction Horse came from a joke I made about a horse training dummy.

Scyantific

lordrichter wrote: »

I came from the World of Warcraft Auction House and I know the World of Warcraft Auction House. I was an active buyer of materials that I needed and an active seller of things I did not want. For many people, the Auction House is a game unto itself, and for a brief time I looked under the folds of fat where it lives. It is not pretty under there.

So, I will say right now that the ESO Guild Traders have the World of Warcraft Auction House beat, hands down, any day of the week. As both a buyer and a seller, I prefer the Guild Traders to anything that the Auction House has. On the PC/Mac.

In addition to my belief that ZOS should continue to add more traders, and not just in new DLC, the console players have to deal with a Guild Store user interface that is only a couple steps above useless. Between the super sized fonts that limit the amount of presentable information and a GUI panel design that puts lists of information in panels that are too small, the console players take it on the chin. I always feel like I am fighting with the console guild store user interface.

1) The Guild Stores need better search capabilities on Consoles. They are difficult to use there without add-ons that they cannot have. PC/Mac players need Awesome Guild Store, which makes buying from the guild stores simple.

2) Lack of easily available sales information on the console makes it hard to know what to sell for. Players are literally browsing logs looking for items so they can know what they sold for. PC/Mac can use something like Master Merchant, but really all that Consoles need is a way to quickly find out how much X recently sold for without paging through all the sales for the last few days, 5 or 6 sales at a time.

While I hate to say this, people should not be wishing for an Auction House in ESO. This is the company that took over a year to put the name of the item that sold in the notification mail, and we still do not know what Guild Store sold it. Consider the design of the UI and search capabilities, and remember that this is the company that delivered the current guild store interface. Now imagine ZOS writing an auction house with a million items for sale across any large portion of the game. If this does not scare you, you fail to understand the situation.

What ESO needs is for ZOS to sit down and tweak the existing UI to make it more usable. I do not want ZOS making any big game systems that require a complicated user interface. No no no no no. Please. No. We might get something like the Champion System UI. (Don't get me wrong, neat UI... fits in with the ESO UI perfectly... like an outhouse on a submarine.)

[SNIP]

And yes, the Guild Store UI definitely needs a bit of an overhaul. If you want a look at how it should be done, look at Awesome Guild Store. I will say that probably the biggest thing that will help with buying stuff is the ability to save our searches between stores.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

Hammy01

Gidorick wrote: »

Hammy01 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I agree that it can be very unfair, but it IS fair in the manner that it mimics a real world scenario. I feel your proposal could be somewhat of an issue to role players as well, who would prefer to travel distant lands in hope of finding better deals, or those who stick to only purchasing from their city of choice lol

How does the current ESO example mimic the real world? As a buyer I have the internet to do a quick price check on just about anything I want thus I don't have to spend all day going from one city to another trying to find the best deal on a new LCD tv.. just a quick google and it is done!!

Err... in medieval times (which is the closest real-world era that ESO is set in) there was no internet. Realistic in the sense that it "preserves the reality" of the game.

Well in "medieval times" there were no wayshrines to teleport you all over the world nor were their loading screens you had to sit through just so you could visit multiple guild traders ... but I guess if you to keep it more "real" in the ESO game world, you could have some powerful sorcerers on each faction that are telepathically linked to all guild traders. Buyers could then visit said sorcerers to search / buy wares they need... of course a small fee would be charged for using said sorcerers and this fee would be given to the guild that you just bought the items from!!

Elsonso

Tannakaobi wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

While I hate to say this, people should not be wishing for an Auction House in ESO. This is the company that took over a year to put the name of the item that sold in the notification mail, and we still do not know what Guild Store sold it. Consider the design of the UI and search capabilities, and remember that this is the company that delivered the current guild store interface. Now imagine ZOS writing an auction house with a million items for sale across any large portion of the game. If this does not scare you, you fail to understand the situation.

That is probably the best reason for not having an auction house.... that's really sad. It begs the question, how can Zos be so good at some things and then so bad at others.

I want to be clear. ZOS is not incompetent and it is not that they are "bad" at things. The reason that I say that I fear ZOS making a global auction house is because aesthetics rules over function and they tend to make something pretty, but never quite finish making it fully functional. They stop working on things before they are done, and it can take them months, or years, to get back to it.

They would stop working on the global auction house before it was done. It would look pretty, but it would fall just short of being finished, and that little bit of function at the end would be what it takes to really sell it. Considering that a global auction house on a megaserver would be a challenge unto itself, if they failed to fully deliver on it, it would not be received well.

Cherryblossom

vonfelty wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

For sure everybody who likes this method runs a trade guild and makes money out of that

...except people like me who genuinely like the free market

Please explain how this current system is a free market, I really want to know what you actually think. I like a lighthearted laugh now and again....

Well both systems are a free market. It's just one is less efficient.

It's the difference between shopping online and driving to different places to check prices.

Personally I don't mind the current system as it fosters reliance on guild members.

Free market you have unrestricted markets, you don't have that in ESO. We only have a finite number of Guild Traders about 140, which means if we have 500,000 people playing only 14% can sell to the community, this is the oposite of a free market. This is a restrictive market which allows large guilds to monopolise the market.
Before you say another guild can just sell lower, no they can't as this other guild still needs to make enough money to out bid the bigger guild for the best spaces, so they are forced to sell at the same price or higher!
The whole system is flawed, if it wasn't flawed they would not of added the Guild traders as a sticking plaster! Don't forget they were actually expecting everyone to go into PVP to buy and sell!!!!

Cherryblossom

imnotanother wrote: »

Real life example: I go to a farmer's market to buy my produce and other things. At this market, there is roughly 20 vendors selling mostly the same things. I buy from the ones with great products, great prices, and the ones that are reliable. But my ass has to drive there, get out of the car, and walk around, talk to multiple vendors, and sometimes....get this.... They don't have what I am looking for and I have to go elsewhere. True story, I shop at multiple stores throughout the week to obtain the things I want.

I'm glad you have a lot of time on your hands to waste, but some of us are playing the game to have fun, it's not a job or a chore.

Please let me know if you think that there should only be a maximum of 70k sellers in a game that may have 500k?

Cherryblossom

Scyantific wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I came from the World of Warcraft Auction House and I know the World of Warcraft Auction House. I was an active buyer of materials that I needed and an active seller of things I did not want. For many people, the Auction House is a game unto itself, and for a brief time I looked under the folds of fat where it lives. It is not pretty under there.

So, I will say right now that the ESO Guild Traders have the World of Warcraft Auction House beat, hands down, any day of the week. As both a buyer and a seller, I prefer the Guild Traders to anything that the Auction House has. On the PC/Mac.

In addition to my belief that ZOS should continue to add more traders, and not just in new DLC, the console players have to deal with a Guild Store user interface that is only a couple steps above useless. Between the super sized fonts that limit the amount of presentable information and a GUI panel design that puts lists of information in panels that are too small, the console players take it on the chin. I always feel like I am fighting with the console guild store user interface.

1) The Guild Stores need better search capabilities on Consoles. They are difficult to use there without add-ons that they cannot have. PC/Mac players need Awesome Guild Store, which makes buying from the guild stores simple.

2) Lack of easily available sales information on the console makes it hard to know what to sell for. Players are literally browsing logs looking for items so they can know what they sold for. PC/Mac can use something like Master Merchant, but really all that Consoles need is a way to quickly find out how much X recently sold for without paging through all the sales for the last few days, 5 or 6 sales at a time.

While I hate to say this, people should not be wishing for an Auction House in ESO. This is the company that took over a year to put the name of the item that sold in the notification mail, and we still do not know what Guild Store sold it. Consider the design of the UI and search capabilities, and remember that this is the company that delivered the current guild store interface. Now imagine ZOS writing an auction house with a million items for sale across any large portion of the game. If this does not scare you, you fail to understand the situation.

What ESO needs is for ZOS to sit down and tweak the existing UI to make it more usable. I do not want ZOS making any big game systems that require a complicated user interface. No no no no no. Please. No. We might get something like the Champion System UI. (Don't get me wrong, neat UI... fits in with the ESO UI perfectly... like an outhouse on a submarine.)

[SNIP]

And yes, the Guild Store UI definitely needs a bit of an overhaul. If you want a look at how it should be done, look at Awesome Guild Store. I will say that probably the biggest thing that will help with buying stuff is the ability to save our searches between stores.

I must of missed something then, I saw nothing other than trade interface is crap and it doesn't work!

Unless you mean, its because you think ZOS is in capable of adding a AH?

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

imnotanother

Cherryblossom wrote: »

vonfelty wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

For sure everybody who likes this method runs a trade guild and makes money out of that

...except people like me who genuinely like the free market

Please explain how this current system is a free market, I really want to know what you actually think. I like a lighthearted laugh now and again....

Well both systems are a free market. It's just one is less efficient.

It's the difference between shopping online and driving to different places to check prices.

Personally I don't mind the current system as it fosters reliance on guild members.

Free market you have unrestricted markets, you don't have that in ESO. We only have a finite number of Guild Traders about 140, which means if we have 500,000 people playing only 14% can sell to the community, this is the oposite of a free market. This is a restrictive market which allows large guilds to monopolise the market.
Before you say another guild can just sell lower, no they can't as this other guild still needs to make enough money to out bid the bigger guild for the best spaces, so they are forced to sell at the same price or higher!
The whole system is flawed, if it wasn't flawed they would not of added the Guild traders as a sticking plaster! Don't forget they were actually expecting everyone to go into PVP to buy and sell!!!!

It still falls under a free market. Your math is correct but the variable you are forgetting to factor in is that each week, those 140 locations are up for bid to an infinite amount of Guilds. If every player of 500,000 started their own guild, then there would be 500,000 guilds competing to sell their goods.
I know your argument is: that larger guilds will always win the bids, not allowing the small ones a chance - leaving many players unable to sell merchandise that week. These players are not obligated to stay in a unsuccessful guild. They have options to join others. Or they can form/manage one of their own.

Tannakaobi

imnotanother wrote: »

But my ass has to drive there, get out of the car, and walk around, talk to multiple vendors, and sometimes....get this.... They don't have what I am looking for and I have to go elsewhere. True story, I shop at multiple stores throughout the week to obtain the things I want.

and here lies my point, this is a game not a life simulator. Game mechanics are designed to bypass the monotony that is real life. Travelling all over Tamriel is just not fun, even with the silly wayshrines. It comes down to just pointless time wasting. I just don't see why that is fun for anyone.

I actually think the best system I have found in any MMO is the system in Age of Wushu. Which was basically each player can set up a stall in a market square and you can go from one to the other looking for what you want. If it was possible to set up these stores while offline then even better. (shame about the rest of the game)

Gidorick wrote: »

<snip>
As for which idea came first? I developed and posted the Auction Horse idea first, but I think the Auction Horse came from a joke I made about a horse training dummy.

Fair enough, now I know. I hadn't seen the trade horse one before, but I usually stay away from trade threads. I find that in ESO there is really very little reason to trade anyway. I like your dedication to the 'lore'. Although I think sometimes lore should be bent for convenience, but I don't like lore breaking entirely.

imnotanother

Cherryblossom wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Real life example: I go to a farmer's market to buy my produce and other things. At this market, there is roughly 20 vendors selling mostly the same things. I buy from the ones with great products, great prices, and the ones that are reliable. But my ass has to drive there, get out of the car, and walk around, talk to multiple vendors, and sometimes....get this.... They don't have what I am looking for and I have to go elsewhere. True story, I shop at multiple stores throughout the week to obtain the things I want.

I'm glad you have a lot of time on your hands to waste, but some of us are playing the game to have fun, it's not a job or a chore.

Please let me know if you think that there should only be a maximum of 70k sellers in a game that may have 500k?

See my above post to answer your math question.

I play the game to have fun as well. If my time is wasted, then it is a matter of perspective. You seem to be very stuck on the idea that you are entitled to everything without doing any of the work. Sounds like a case of L2P

Hammy01

I have an idea that may make both sides happy.. please hear me out!!

We already have Hirelings (sp?) in the game.. well why can't zos create Guild trader hirelings that can search all guild traders for us. Depending on how many skill point you dedicate to the guild trader hireling you can use them 1/2/3 times a day. When you use your guild trader hireling it pops up an AH interface with all current guild trader listings, search and buy what you need and then your hireling will come back in about 15 minutes with your wares. The hirelings are for buyers only and have a limited use so the current system won't become obsolete!!

imnotanother

Tannakaobi wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

But my ass has to drive there, get out of the car, and walk around, talk to multiple vendors, and sometimes....get this.... They don't have what I am looking for and I have to go elsewhere. True story, I shop at multiple stores throughout the week to obtain the things I want.

and here lies my point, this is a game not a life simulator. Game mechanics are designed to bypass the monotony that is real life. Travelling all over Tamriel is just not fun, even with the silly wayshrines. It comes down to just pointless time wasting. I just don't see why that is fun for anyone.

What is time wasting? Shopping or shopping for the lowest price? Traveling around? I just can't get over the entitlement.

"I want the lowest price and I want it now!"

Tandor

Cherryblossom wrote: »

We only have a finite number of Guild Traders about 140, which means if we have 500,000 people playing only 14% can sell to the community

It isn't anything like as many as 14%, you're forgetting all the players that belong to multiple trading guilds. One of the complaints you often see about the the present system (including in this thread) is that even with the new notifications of items sold, sellers still have no idea which of their kiosks the item was sold from. I would personally be surprised if more than say 5% of players were actually selling stuff at any one time, and I doubt if a majority of players even bother with the trading system at all while those that do are likely to be in at least 3 trading guilds, leaving one guild slot for PvE and another for PvP.

vonfelty

Cherryblossom wrote: »

vonfelty wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

For sure everybody who likes this method runs a trade guild and makes money out of that

...except people like me who genuinely like the free market

Please explain how this current system is a free market, I really want to know what you actually think. I like a lighthearted laugh now and again....

Well both systems are a free market. It's just one is less efficient.

It's the difference between shopping online and driving to different places to check prices.

Personally I don't mind the current system as it fosters reliance on guild members.

Free market you have unrestricted markets, you don't have that in ESO. We only have a finite number of Guild Traders about 140, which means if we have 500,000 people playing only 14% can sell to the community, this is the oposite of a free market. This is a restrictive market which allows large guilds to monopolise the market.
Before you say another guild can just sell lower, no they can't as this other guild still needs to make enough money to out bid the bigger guild for the best spaces, so they are forced to sell at the same price or higher!
The whole system is flawed, if it wasn't flawed they would not of added the Guild traders as a sticking plaster! Don't forget they were actually expecting everyone to go into PVP to buy and sell!!!!

So in the 1980's when people had to drive around looking for the best price, America was the forefront of a communistic state? I mean really. It's still a free market, it's just not as efficient.

Tannakaobi

imnotanother wrote: »

You seem to be very stuck on the idea that you are entitled to everything without doing any of the work. Sounds like a case of L2P

imnotanother wrote: »

What is time wasting? Shopping or shopping for the lowest price? Traveling around? I just can't get over the entitlement.

"I want the lowest price and I want it now!"

I really can't be bothered trying to have a debate with someone that turns to such childish comments.

imnotanother

Tannakaobi wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

You seem to be very stuck on the idea that you are entitled to everything without doing any of the work. Sounds like a case of L2P

imnotanother wrote: »

What is time wasting? Shopping or shopping for the lowest price? Traveling around? I just can't get over the entitlement.

"I want the lowest price and I want it now!"

I really can't be bothered trying to have a debate with someone that turns to such childish comments.

Fair enough. But when I read AH threads and post, all I hear is complaints from members who sound very entitled. This game does not have an AH, it has guild traders. If you are complaining that this game doesn't behave the way you want and that it should, you are feeling entitled. Sorry

Elsonso

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Free market you have unrestricted markets, you don't have that in ESO. We only have a finite number of Guild Traders about 140, which means if we have 500,000 people playing only 14% can sell to the community, this is the oposite of a free market. This is a restrictive market which allows large guilds to monopolise the market.
Before you say another guild can just sell lower, no they can't as this other guild still needs to make enough money to out bid the bigger guild for the best spaces, so they are forced to sell at the same price or higher!

This is somewhat of a distortion, unless you accept that there is really no such thing as a free market, anywhere. No matter where you go, there is some sort of cost, tax, overhead, or restriction in place that prevents the seller from being free and unrestricted. It makes no sense to hold ESO to a market concept that does not really exist.

On the PC, a lot of what you suggest is simply wrong or misleading. It fails to take into account players who are playing the game and how they can move between guilds, and sell in multiple guilds. There is no monopolization by large guilds on PC and small guilds own traders in markets that are much cheaper than the top market. You assume that all commerce in trade guilds happens at guild traders.

Tannakaobi

imnotanother wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

You seem to be very stuck on the idea that you are entitled to everything without doing any of the work. Sounds like a case of L2P

imnotanother wrote: »

What is time wasting? Shopping or shopping for the lowest price? Traveling around? I just can't get over the entitlement.

"I want the lowest price and I want it now!"

I really can't be bothered trying to have a debate with someone that turns to such childish comments.

Fair enough. But when I read AH threads and post, all I hear is complaints from members who sound very entitled. This game does not have an AH, it has guild traders. If you are complaining that this game doesn't behave the way you want and that it should, you are feeling entitled. Sorry

And if you had read what I put you would know that is not why I want it to be changed.

I want it changed because I don't feel the current system is working. Not because I want it made easy or because I'm entitled. Certainly not because I need to L2P!

I'm not looking for a global Auction House like in WoW. However having played WoW and been part of the community for a long time I can tell you that I never once saw a thread complaining about the system. A total contrast to ESO where there is practically a thread every week. Which really should tell you that there is indeed a problem and that it needs to be fixed in one way or another.

imnotanother

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Edit: The guild system would work much better if there was at least a market with ALL the traders in one place.

Sorry I interpreted this sentence as you being in favor for a Global AH.

As for the guild traders not working, I make over 250k a week in sales from one store. Works for me any my 499 members.

Fuzzybrick

imnotanother wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

NinjaApacHe wrote: »

For sure everybody who likes this method runs a trade guild and makes money out of that

...except people like me who genuinely like the free market

Please explain how this current system is a free market, I really want to know what you actually think. I like a lighthearted laugh now and again....

free mar·ket
noun
noun: free market; plural noun: free markets; modifier noun: free-market

an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses.


i.e: When I list an item for X amount in Store A and someone sells it higher in Store B.

==============================================

mo·nop·o·ly
məˈnäpəlē/
noun
noun: monopoly; plural noun: monopolies; noun: Monopoly
1.
the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service.

i.e: There is only one store and you sell your item at the same price as everyone else.

I am not sure how you are not understanding the difference between the two, I assumed it is because you are not aware of what the words mean.

On console anyone can have as many accounts as they want. Some people make many accounts to buy and sell everything and even own multiple guild traders so they can force you to buy from their main trader.

kupacmac

Tannakaobi wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

imnotanother wrote: »

You seem to be very stuck on the idea that you are entitled to everything without doing any of the work. Sounds like a case of L2P

imnotanother wrote: »

What is time wasting? Shopping or shopping for the lowest price? Traveling around? I just can't get over the entitlement.

"I want the lowest price and I want it now!"

I really can't be bothered trying to have a debate with someone that turns to such childish comments.

Fair enough. But when I read AH threads and post, all I hear is complaints from members who sound very entitled. This game does not have an AH, it has guild traders. If you are complaining that this game doesn't behave the way you want and that it should, you are feeling entitled. Sorry

And if you had read what I put you would know that is not why I want it to be changed.

I want it changed because I don't feel the current system is working. Not because I want it made easy or because I'm entitled. Certainly not because I need to L2P!

I'm not looking for a global Auction House like in WoW. However having played WoW and been part of the community for a long time I can tell you that I never once saw a thread complaining about the system. A total contrast to ESO where there is practically a thread every week. Which really should tell you that there is indeed a problem and that it needs to be fixed in one way or another.

As someone already stated in this thread, ESO wouldn't have a WoW auction house, it would have a Guild Wars 2 auction house. That's a major difference that people are overlooking. It is absolutely miserable trying to sell anything on the GW2 auction house without constant undercuts to the point that prices normalize to just a couple of copper more than the vender price. You think running from guild trader to guild trader is time consuming, try *having* to play the Auction House like it's the stock market every day. I got so sick of it I just started vendering everything, and it was a constant struggle trying to figure out ways to earn income. Many times I've thought about going back to GW2 because I love the questing and the WvW there, but what keeps me away is how utterly broke I felt all... the.. time.

Tannakaobi

imnotanother wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Edit: The guild system would work much better if there was at least a market with ALL the traders in one place.

Sorry I interpreted this sentence as you being in favor for a Global AH.

As for the guild traders not working, I make over 250k a week in sales from one store. Works for me any my 499 members.

I meant a free market. It's lucky that you have a good guild that has a nice spot, but I don't and every trade guild I have been with so far has fallen apart and ended up basically disbanded. Unlucky maybe!

Another problem I have with a guild system is that due to the nature of MMO's I play on and off. I will no doubt not play for a while when Battlefront 3 comes out, but I have the full intention of returning after a couple of months, yet ESO seems intent to do everything they can to make me not want to.

Guild trading is just another thing to go alongside CP's VR and so on. It's not very good when you come back and need to find new guilds straight away just to do a bit of shopping. If they want to last a long time then they need to address this. There is no way WoW would still be going if people felt they couldn't return because they could never catch up.

FortheloveofKrist

From PS4 perspective...

The Guild Trader system works fine except the kiosks are too cumbersome due to the search mechanics. No keyword search. No saved searches. It doesn't even remember your last search when going between 5-6 kiosks. If you could search faster, it would be perfect.

But I would vote no on the auction house concept. Played WoW, and I think this system is better.

kupacmac

Can we please stop with the WoW comparisons? The reason I play ESO and not WoW is because ESO is better than WoW in every conceivable way, including Guild Traders. If you guys love WoW so much, by all means GO BACK! Don't try to turn this game into the steaming pile that WoW is. We don't want that crap here.