Time for a Little Truth

kupacmac

I'm not sure if this is the problem that the OP is having, but there are a lot of boss mechanics that are meant to kill you if you don't handle them correctly. For instance, First Mate Wavecutter in Black Heart Haven can one shot you with her lightning attack if it's not interrupted. So just because the boss hits you for 58k doesn't mean it's overpowered or too difficult, figure out what is hitting you and how to avoid it.

DenMoria

Rainteal wrote: »

I started running dungeons with some of my friends that came over from other games. We were having very limited success, so I started asking about their builds.

"I'm a tank/healer."

"I'm a tanky support DPS."

"I a support/healer/DPS."

"What do you mean by build?"

These were similar to the responses I received. I gently made some suggestions about specs and powers/weapons to use, and I was met with all of the usual responses that basically said, "I want to play how I want to play."

After some time, and a whole lot of unsuccessful dungeons, my friends started respeccing and re-gearing for optimum builds through research they did on websites and guides. Almost overnight my little group went from wiping on everything to CRUSHING all normal and many Vet dungeons.

While yes, all of us that paid for the game are entitled to play all of the content in the game, part of the fun of playing a game like ESO is finding and learning about the intricacies of builds and gear. That is, in fact, what you are paying for when buying this type of game. If you want to succeed, you must be willing to put in the time and effort. That, by design, is what you paid for when you bought ESO.

That is the problem though. ESO (and all TES games for that matter) have always been sold as "Play as you want" games. You shouldn't have to play in a manner that only fits in to some narrow mold. If I want to play a Khajit spellsword who specializes in conjuration, I should be able to or a Breton Templar pacifist, I should be able to, but that is not the way it works.

I fully expect that my current bevy of beauties will all fail because a) I do not know what the optimal builds are (and I am far too lazy and disinterested to do all that research) and b) I'm really not interested in being somebody elses optimal build.

I want to have fun playing the way I want to play.

That being said - I do definitely advocate for grouping correctly (with some flexibility). You shouldn't need every group to be a mage, a healer, a tank and a NB. Anybody who's played Dragon's Dogma knows that, sometimes it's simply a blast to have a group of just Sorcerers, or one of just Warriors. That is simply not a possibility with ESO.

JMHO

RizaHawkeye

DenMoria wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Bogdan_Kobzar wrote: »

the problem is with the "pet" playtesters. They KNOW all of the latest and greatest and current, how shall i word this, techniques in gaming that provide substantial benefit to the players character (that should be politically correct enough)....

At the risk of encouraging a conspiracy theory, I'll say I used to doubt this until I've noticed that every almost other person in Tamriel is carrying a two-handed weapon and spamming Wrecking Blow. I mean, it's like an epidemic.

At first, I tried to reason with myself and say: "You're imagining things. Wrecking Blow is just not that powerful."

Then on Monday I was struggling with delve (NB Bow and DW) and two other players approached. They offered to help and then spammed WB and cleaned it out in like 15 seconds. They were like lawnmowers cutting through the mobs.

Afterwards, I expected to get some of the "L2P" conversation, but they were nice and just said: "You need to reroll. WB is unstoppable right now." When I questioned them on this, they said, in effect, check every ESO gaming build site. Stealth no longer uses DW for DPS. They use 2h and cleave/WB.

This does frustrate me. Really. I won't scream for a nerf but why can't Zenimax balance the damn game??

(Actually, if I did believe in conspiracy theories, I would think Zeni WANTS everyone to play 2H greatswords. It's the first weapon you're given in the game. They are everywhere lying around, easily outnumbering the other weapons that are lying around. And for damage ... yeah.)

I am still trying to figure out what to do with my Nord Warrior build. I don't want him using any magic at all, but it just seems to be impossible. I tried him as a Dragon Knight, but it didn't make any sense and then as a Templar, and, again, it didn't make any sense.

The worst are my poor sorcerers. With everybody running around slamming everybody with 2 handed blows, I've been dodge-rolling more than I've been casting spells!

When I bought ESO, I tried to play it like I played other TES games. I created a character and developed the skills I thought she would use naturally. She was a dragonknight and she used DW and a bow. She has backstory and it made sense.

Then Zeni nerfed stamina hard. I sighed, complained a bit, and then respeced my attributes.

She does okay and I can manage most content with only a little help. Some bosses are just harder than others. I find I use silver bolts A LOT. Also, I spent a lot on passives to make sure she can survive.

But my NB struggles. When I've raised the issue on Zone Chat or in guild, even the nice advice is pretty much the same: you build to your class and then spam certain skills. Because of the stamina nerf, nighblades now work better using magicka skills. DW skills seem to have better synergy when used together, but they all cost stamina, so if you use those skills, you don't have enough left to block or roll dodge. You end up getting creamed because you simply can't defend yourself.

Rainteal

DenMoria wrote: »

That is the problem though. ESO (and all TES games for that matter) have always been sold as "Play as you want" games. You shouldn't have to play in a manner that only fits in to some narrow mold. If I want to play a Khajit spellsword who specializes in conjuration, I should be able to or a Breton Templar pacifist, I should be able to, but that is not the way it works.

I fully expect that my current bevy of beauties will all fail because a) I do not know what the optimal builds are (and I am far too lazy and disinterested to do all that research) and b) I'm really not interested in being somebody elses optimal build.

I want to have fun playing the way I want to play.

That being said - I do definitely advocate for grouping correctly (with some flexibility). You shouldn't need every group to be a mage, a healer, a tank and a NB. Anybody who's played Dragon's Dogma knows that, sometimes it's simply a blast to have a group of just Sorcerers, or one of just Warriors. That is simply not a possibility with ESO.

JMHO

I definitely see your point in the way this game was marketed with its comparison to other TESs games. I believe that that comparison holds true for the vast majority of the game's content (quests, delves, public dungeons, anchors, etc) I am absolutely certain that your "bevy of beauties" will complete all of that content in your own way, and that is great!

For this I am referring to the OPs comments about dungeons specifically, and I think this argument would hold true for any other group focused activity. You can play this game however you like, but certain elements of the game may require a more ridged, focused approach. IMO that actual is one of the good points of the game, versatility of play.

I also believe there is a great deal of freedom in viable specs and group builds that goes back to your point in the last paragraph. While I did say optimized builds, I think there is a huge amount of creative freedom that can be used by players to come to that build. I truly do not believe that there is any one RIGHT way to build/play (as is the case in many MMOs), but there are definitely more and less powerful approaches.

DenMoria

Rainteal wrote: »

DenMoria wrote: »

That is the problem though. ESO (and all TES games for that matter) have always been sold as "Play as you want" games. You shouldn't have to play in a manner that only fits in to some narrow mold. If I want to play a Khajit spellsword who specializes in conjuration, I should be able to or a Breton Templar pacifist, I should be able to, but that is not the way it works.

I fully expect that my current bevy of beauties will all fail because a) I do not know what the optimal builds are (and I am far too lazy and disinterested to do all that research) and b) I'm really not interested in being somebody elses optimal build.

I want to have fun playing the way I want to play.

That being said - I do definitely advocate for grouping correctly (with some flexibility). You shouldn't need every group to be a mage, a healer, a tank and a NB. Anybody who's played Dragon's Dogma knows that, sometimes it's simply a blast to have a group of just Sorcerers, or one of just Warriors. That is simply not a possibility with ESO.

JMHO

I definitely see your point in the way this game was marketed with its comparison to other TESs games. I believe that that comparison holds true for the vast majority of the game's content (quests, delves, public dungeons, anchors, etc) I am absolutely certain that your "bevy of beauties" will complete all of that content in your own way, and that is great!

For this I am referring to the OPs comments about dungeons specifically, and I think this argument would hold true for any other group focused activity. You can play this game however you like, but certain elements of the game may require a more ridged, focused approach. IMO that actual is one of the good points of the game, versatility of play.

I also believe there is a great deal of freedom in viable specs and group builds that goes back to your point in the last paragraph. While I did say optimized builds, I think there is a huge amount of creative freedom that can be used by players to come to that build. I truly do not believe that there is any one RIGHT way to build/play (as is the case in many MMOs), but there are definitely more and less powerful approaches.

I have a question: How does one respec? Is it a potion I can buy at the store or can make myself? Just interested so that when I get my girls up there in levels again (I had a terrible crash and my V's are currently mia??????), a little respecing can't hurt to keep them competitive.

Rainteal

You can use the respec "shrines" in your capital city. You will see the Shrine of Mara nearby as well. You can go to the shrine to respec all powers, just morphs, and also attribute points.

I see that you are on PS4. If you are on the Ebonheart Pact alliance I can help you out in game. PSN: Rainteal

DenMoria

Rainteal wrote: »

You can use the respec "shrines" in your capital city. You will see the Shrine of Mara nearby as well. You can go to the shrine to respec all powers, just morphs, and also attribute points.

I see that you are on PS4. If you are on the Ebonheart Pact alliance I can help you out in game. PSN: Rainteal

Thanks, I'll friend you. Warn you though that it may be some time. I lost ALL my toons recently (they've disappeared in to the ether and ZoS can't find them) so I'm still building my faction toons. I'm only on Daggerfall now, but Ebonheart is up this weekend. Hope you like my girl! Nothin' better than a buxom dunmer.

Saint314Louis1985

I think that people get frustrated over the fact that the only way to get some items is to do "veteran" material. If they give both normal and vet dungeons the same drop table but reduce chances on rare items in the normal dramatically i think everyone would be happy. Master weapons should be obtainable by all but more time consuming if you choose normal mode.

Or give items obtained in normal all the crappy traits and make "vet" dropped items guarantee a good trait. This along with lower drop rates for normal mode items.

My two cents.

Molag_Crow

Relax and wait for Orsinium ....

Gidorick

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I have an idea, do you think its feasible for Zos to add NPCs to your group depending on the approximate amount of your groups damage output, and the NPCs contribute to the fight, and can be healed like a player? Like in a group of 4, if the group can't pull enough dps, 1 NPC or 2 NPCs could be added to add a little oomph to handling mobs?

If thats a terrible idea, sorry, just a suggestion, but overall I appreciate your post OP. I think elitists will always kill games and always alienate themselves from others, and they will always tell people who don't meet their caliber to l2p or to uninstall the game or other douchy comments. Its all they know how to do since they're unhappy.

Hey @Sheezabeast, check out this concept posted last January:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146133/hirable-npc-companion-concept/p1

Hirable NPCs... I completely agree.

Sheezabeast

Gidorick wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I have an idea, do you think its feasible for Zos to add NPCs to your group depending on the approximate amount of your groups damage output, and the NPCs contribute to the fight, and can be healed like a player? Like in a group of 4, if the group can't pull enough dps, 1 NPC or 2 NPCs could be added to add a little oomph to handling mobs?

If thats a terrible idea, sorry, just a suggestion, but overall I appreciate your post OP. I think elitists will always kill games and always alienate themselves from others, and they will always tell people who don't meet their caliber to l2p or to uninstall the game or other douchy comments. Its all they know how to do since they're unhappy.

Hey @Sheezabeast, check out this concept posted last January:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/146133/hirable-npc-companion-concept/p1

Hirable NPCs... I completely agree.

Cool, well-thought-out post! Cool concept, and I think completely doable! Only thing is I disagree about the herbalist and the other ones who do the small mundane stuff we MMO lovers loooove so much to do ;D

Undefwun

MarblePine204 wrote: »

So, yes, we expect ALL aspects of the game to be obtainable, even if we aren’t “elite” players.

*SNIP*

What would work? Adding a third tier to the system? Normal, Veteran, Hardcore level selections when entering a dungeon?

How will that work?

Add another tier and then you can't beat Hardcore, but because you paid your cold hard cash all aspects should be attainable.
Catch 22.


I've played several MMOs over the years and I have just accepted there are things that will not happen for me.
Due to IRL things I will never be on the forefront of whatever the latest gear is. Even though I love PvP and is 90% of the reason I play, I am just not good enough to be pro or even 'game famous' (except for "ha here is that guy again, AP fodder").

AND some content I will probably not see, because I can't invest the time to be geared, practice or run extra long content.

AND the sooner I made peace with that, the fun came back.

I don't think it's fair for me to pose restrictions on the difficulty of content if I don't have the time or dedication to master it.
They cater content for all skill levels, if you can't reach that, be happy and play the 90% of content that you can.

Volkodav

*blinks eyes in amazement*
Wow! You must be reeeeely frustrated. I did manage to read it all,but couldnt get a fix on everything.

Soulshine

The only "truth" to be found in your excessively uninformed rant is that you believe yourself to be "a very good player," find yourself unable to complete content you believe should be easier, and are (like many others who have complained here before you) wallowing in the usual shallow trough of deluded views because you think "consumers are entitled to expectations." Good luck.

Speely

I like that there are once again strong (but not immovable) ceilings of difficulty against which the majority of players, and even the best players, can push. Everyone should not be able to do everything in the game as any build at any skill level in any ole way they want to.

Should most of the content be very accessible? Of course. Should all of it be? NO WAY. There should be thresholds of difficulty for every type of player, and given the wide range of player aptitudes and gear optimization, it only makes sense that this threshold will have to be located in different areas of difficulty for different players. As it should be in a MMORPG with a diverse player base.

We now have group dungeons that are challenging (perhaps somewhat less so now, but the uber-elite can still try these with three or even as a duo if they feel they are too easy) and world boss encounters that are actually LETHAL for any single player and even for most duos/trios. These represent examples of strong ceilings of difficulty against which even amazing players can push, and which decent players can set goals for in order to do the same. You know, like heroes do.

Why do so many want a Tamriel that is so formulaic and accessible in EVERY SINGLE AREA? Whenever one bit of content in this MMO fails to accommodate someone's personal criteria for build/power vs optimal accessibility, it's as if they forget that there are tons of completely different players sharing this same world who have different perspectives. It's literally impossible for a developer to both A) make an interesting, dynamic game and B ) make 100% of the content perfectly viable and equally accessible to everyone. What happened to players who love having something nigh-impossible as a holy grail?

I would say L2P, but that's obnoxious and not really accurate. Learn to have some perspective in regard to the playing experiences of others rather than only worrying about your own. Makes the whole experience SO much more enjoyable. I have more fun with this game than should be legal, and much of the harder content is sort of out of my reach most of the time because of the way I choose to play and/or the fact that I am not an elite player. GOOD. I have things to look forward to working toward. Once everything is behind you, all there is to do is stomp your feet and wait for new content.

It's good that the content now will take longer for most to complete. Just because you can't do it now does not make it too hard, nor does it make you suck. It means it's working as intended and that EVERYONE who plays this game has room for improvement.

Morimizo

Speely wrote: »

Why do so many want a Tamriel that is so formulaic and accessible in EVERY SINGLE AREA?

I know I'm not interested in having content that caters to just me, nor do I expect it. However, I think some may argue that what they really wanted from Orsinium was a zone similar in difficulty to the previous PVE zones (except Craglorn), particularly if they primarily like to solo. While there are many delves and quests in the new zone that are solo-friendly, the main quest (non-solo boss sections), WB's, and Public Dungeons all require assistance (for all but the most elite), which is a deviation from the previous formula. So even though it's not exactly Craglorn (though I could make the argument that there is much easier content to solo in that group-based area), it feels like another forced group DLC.

That said, a very vocal part of the community seems to want a significantly ramped-up challenge, and Raid-type mechanics.

So be it, but don't be surprised if not all players want this. It is quite reasonable for a player to say, "I loved Stonefalls, and would really enjoy playing a zone like Vvardenfell with a similar difficulty." You and many others probably hate that idea, but, don't worry, you'll be more likely to get a Craglorn, Orsinium, or IC experience instead, because that's the current direction of the game.