This is just my two cents and I am sure people will not agree.

rager82b14_ESO · October 2015

Key points that I would change in this game, and it would help me get more people into it.

1) Content focus.
PVP is fun, but that is still a small crowd. You gave a great area for pvp. Content wise, I would just do small scale battles like they want. (arena type deals.) and be done bringing out more content for pvp. PVP itself is the fun part of it. The area set the rules of that pvp. I would add systems, or things extra to keep it fresh and give carrots to chase for pvpers. Because in an MMO the one thing that people love to do is chase carrots. I don't know any team that has a big enough budget to split its art team and focus in many parts of a game. Even the biggest budget MMOs don't do it. and learn the lesson the hard way. PVP and PVE is not two sides of the same coin.

2) Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood.

This needs to happen soon, I still load up the older elder scrolls just to play them.The shocking thing is? I am not alone. I got endless hours of fun with skyrim system as well. With the endless cycle of people to kill random targets to kill for money. It is fun and I hope you don't limit it too much with a daily cap. This could be endless of hours of fun for players IF DONE RIGHT.

3)Auction house.
This one I see tons of people defending, but I just can't for the life of me enjoy this system. This has been asked for since beta. Guild Wars 2 uses the best system to date, and ESO is just..not fun. Many of the console players I have watched and saw feedback on this seem to feel the same way. It is not fun, the pros it brings I feel is not worth the cons of the system. It is not friendly, and just not fun. A global market with people competing, is not a bad thing. In fact, I know many MANY players who play mmos for that side of the game. Crafting and using the market. With the limiting factors you place. You are limiting a end game content that people enjoy.

I know this has been repeated since beta. I am giving this feedback..still because MMOs change over the years, and I still have hope that changes can be made to ESO. I really wish my team had the budget to make such a AAA game. I look forward to the future, even if I can't play much right now.

Artjuh90 · October 2015

auction house woukd destroy guild trades though

Alucardo · October 2015

1) Needs some more details, but I like the sound of it

2) Indeed the Thieves guild and Dark Brotherhood would be pretty interesting, but I fear it might promote even more Nightblades. Not even joking here.

3) I'd go with @Gidorick 's Auction Horse idea instead, just to make things more dynamic and fun

OtarTheMad · October 2015

PvP is a small crowd because a lot of older (and by older I just mean when they bought the game and time spent, not age) left the game for something else. You look at old/dead guild like: Alacrity, DiE, Noore, AJSA, Havok, Hijinx, Mega Best Friends (can't remember the original name) and more I am most likely not remembering... they all fell apart, basically, because core people left the game. Pretty much the only reason why PvP is a small crowd... they sort of dropped the ball on it.

Callous2208 · October 2015

OtarTheMad wrote: »

PvP is a small crowd because a lot of older (and by older I just mean when they bought the game and time spent, not age) left the game for something else. You look at old/dead guild like: Alacrity, DiE, Noore, AJSA, Havok, Hijinx, Mega Best Friends (can't remember the original name) and more I am most likely not remembering... they all fell apart, basically, because core people left the game. Pretty much the only reason why PvP is a small crowd... they sort of dropped the ball on it.

I believe that's partly true. However I don't think the hardcore pvp crowd ever made up more than 20% of eso's population at its peak. It's always been a somewhat smaller crowd in my opinion.

rager82b14_ESO · October 2015

Artjuh90 wrote: »

auction house woukd destroy guild trades though

I understand that, but a necessary evil for a better overall mmo experience is choices developers have to make at times. Trust me on that one. My main Idea and details chart has seen better times.

rager82b14_ESO · October 2015

PVP will always be a touchy topic as we can only talk about ourselves on it.

I use to be a pvper. From UO, Shadowbane, Dark Age of Camelot, Warhammer online, World of Warcraft. Why I enjoyed pvp over the years was not the test of skill, or anything of that nature. It was one simple word that made me addicted to it.

Adrenaline. That is it. Over the years though, that factor has died off. Warhammer online was one of the reason for myself why it happen. It turned PVP into a Grind. I felt like PVP was just PVE with better ai. UO was the most adrenaline I had in pvp, but that was just because how open ended it was, before they changed the system.

WOW had it some with arena, but too much of a good thing dies down. Now PVP I just can't get into it as much. I am sure many could, and I don't hate them for that. I had my fun and glory days of it. Now I just don't feel it like I use to.

From what I learn. PVPers are a very fickle crowd. We want balance, we want to feel like we always have a chance no matter if the odds are not in our favor. (Yes I am generalizing so forgive me.) For myself the more competitive the better because that means more of a rush I felt.

With number 1 I post. I feel like players asking for more PVP content is a deadly flaw with pvp in itself. Does that mean PVP is just a fancy version of PVE now? Is pvping for the sake of pvp not enough? Questions like that is scary for developers.

Vrienda · October 2015

Thieves guild is the next DLC, so it's coming next quarter, just so you know.

rager82b14_ESO · October 2015

Aeula wrote: »

Thieves guild is the next DLC, so it's coming next quarter, just so you know.

Cool thanks for the info.

Ysne58 · October 2015

I'll believe it if I see it.

Lynnessa · October 2015

While I understand where you are coming from, OP, I have trepidation when it comes to suggestions like 1 and 3. It seems like when ESO players try to make those suggestions more specific, they always reference other games, i.e. "arenas like WoW" or "trading like Guild Wars".... I for one don't want ESO to be like other games. I want it to stay different and unique. Not saying you're suggesting that it be made into just a different version of other games, just relating my personal grain of salt.

rager82b14_ESO · October 2015

Lynnessa wrote: »

While I understand where you are coming from, OP, I have trepidation when it comes to suggestions like 1 and 3. It seems like when ESO players try to make those suggestions more specific, they always reference other games, i.e. "arenas like WoW" or "trading like Guild Wars".... I for one don't want ESO to be like other games. I want it to stay different and unique. Not saying you're suggesting that it be made into just a different version of other games, just relating my personal grain of salt.

I understand, but looking to the past can give you ideas of the future. When I am stump for ideas, I play other games to help come up with new stuff.

I asked myself this.

Why do they have this system.
What could make it better.
Is it fun for myself?
How would it not be fun for others.
and what can I do with that element.

Elsonso · October 2015

Aeula wrote: »

Thieves guild is the next DLC, so it's coming next quarter, just so you know.

My money is on Dark Brotherhood in first quarter.

usmcjdking · October 2015

The sooner ZOS just abandons PVP the better.

PVPers are narcissists in the broader scope and will never, ever, lobby for anything that isn't detrimental towards 99% of the rest of the players in the game.

Want to see your game die? Focus on PVP.

Suicidal_Godot · October 2015

usmcjdking wrote: »

The sooner ZOS just abandons PVP the better.

PVPers are narcissists in the broader scope and will never, ever, lobby for anything that isn't detrimental towards 99% of the rest of the players in the game.

Want to see your game die? Focus on PVP.

...sure. Like Counter Strike, Battlefield,...

OK, on a more serious spin:

For one, PvP is an attempt to bring the Egoshooter kids to the MMO boat. This can work out. And it needs some focus. PvP as a mere afterthought stitch-on doesn't float...

Next, PvP (-balancing) at significant cost for the PvE community will alienate many a PvE-player. Difficult to ride the ragged edge of disaster, but IMHO not impossible...

Third, PvP as an obligatory part of the game, irreplaceably necessary for top notch gear and char progression, will lead to even more alienation. There are certain compromises that are possible - getting through a PvP zone to PvE objectives e.g. - but you shouldn't force it upon PvE players to get good at PvP. This can be a matter of ISP quality, hardware, preference or age that makes people refrain from PvP, and not respecting that will only lead to people not staying. Also you shouldn't treat kills acquired in the PvEer-ganking the same as full-fledged PvP-fight kills.

On the other hand, overly focussing on PvE will lead to PvP where exploits run rampant, the bully gangs will form, and push many a hopeful out of PvP entirely. It does need some oversight to keep the balance...

...just coming from a game where both parts went to shambles...

Gilvoth · October 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Aeula wrote: »

Thieves guild is the next DLC, so it's coming next quarter, just so you know.

My money is on Dark Brotherhood in first quarter.

that would be Amazing! i hope you are correct!

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

PVP is fun, but that is still a small crowd.

Any figures ? In fact, we don't know.

winterbornb14_ESO · October 2015

usmcjdking wrote: »

The sooner ZOS just abandons PVP the better.

PVPers are narcissists in the broader scope and will never, ever, lobby for anything that isn't detrimental towards 99% of the rest of the players in the game.

Want to see your game die? Focus on PVP.

I agree, I have seen too many MMO's die due to the never ending balance attempts (NERFS) driven by the tears of the PvP kids.
This company did not learn a dam thing from any of the other MMO's before it. The Art department deserves a raise at the cost of the Dev. teams jobs IMO.

krees28b14_ESO · October 2015

Suicidal_Godot wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

The sooner ZOS just abandons PVP the better.

PVPers are narcissists in the broader scope and will never, ever, lobby for anything that isn't detrimental towards 99% of the rest of the players in the game.

Want to see your game die? Focus on PVP.

...sure. Like Counter Strike, Battlefield,...

OK, on a more serious spin:

For one, PvP is an attempt to bring the Egoshooter kids to the MMO boat. This can work out. And it needs some focus. PvP as a mere afterthought stitch-on doesn't float...

Next, PvP (-balancing) at significant cost for the PvE community will alienate many a PvE-player. Difficult to ride the ragged edge of disaster, but IMHO not impossible...

Third, PvP as an obligatory part of the game, irreplaceably necessary for top notch gear and char progression, will lead to even more alienation. There are certain compromises that are possible - getting through a PvP zone to PvE objectives e.g. - but you shouldn't force it upon PvE players to get good at PvP. This can be a matter of ISP quality, hardware, preference or age that makes people refrain from PvP, and not respecting that will only lead to people not staying. Also you shouldn't treat kills acquired in the PvEer-ganking the same as full-fledged PvP-fight kills.

On the other hand, overly focussing on PvE will lead to PvP where exploits run rampant, the bully gangs will form, and push many a hopeful out of PvP entirely. It does need some oversight to keep the balance...

...just coming from a game where both parts went to shambles...

Except Counter Strike and Battlefield are first person shooters and not mmo's.

winterbornb14_ESO · October 2015

Counterstrike, Battlefield, COD etc. are NOT MMO's.

TheShadowScout · October 2015

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

2) Thieves Guild and Dark Brotherhood.

This needs to happen soon, I still load up the older elder scrolls just to play them.The shocking thing is? I am not alone. I got endless hours of fun with skyrim system as well. With the endless cycle of people to kill random targets to kill for money. It is fun and I hope you don't limit it too much with a daily cap. This could be endless of hours of fun for players IF DONE RIGHT.

Last I heard, they will be done next... I would think, likely one DLC in the first two quarters next year?

But yes, I hear ye... I have been waiting for those two ever since the game went live summer '14!

It will be especially interesting how thieves, assassins and the someday coming justice enforcers might interact... I sincirely hope they will add some exclusivity - as in, either go for the criminal guilds, or go for the guardsmen guild, but not both...

...but we'll see.

rager82b14_ESO · October 2015

OK, on a more serious spin:

For one, PvP is an attempt to bring the Egoshooter kids to the MMO boat. This can work out. And it needs some focus. PvP as a mere afterthought stitch-on doesn't float...

I don't agree with this some. Even in the old days of MUD game. PVP was part of things. PVP is a mmo thing. I don't think it is to cater to shooters crowd really.

Next, PvP (-balancing) at significant cost for the PvE community will alienate many a PvE-player. Difficult to ride the ragged edge of disaster, but IMHO not impossible...

Ya, that is why as a developer myself. If I was going to balance classes, I would have the same skills not have the same effects. So if you hover over a skill, it would show pve damage, and hold a key to show the pvp part. That way you can balance from both sides without hurting one or the other.

Third, PvP as an obligatory part of the game, irreplaceably necessary for top notch gear and char progression, will lead to even more alienation. There are certain compromises that are possible - getting through a PvP zone to PvE objectives e.g. - but you shouldn't force it upon PvE players to get good at PvP. This can be a matter of ISP quality, hardware, preference or age that makes people refrain from PvP, and not respecting that will only lead to people not staying. Also you shouldn't treat kills acquired in the PvEer-ganking the same as full-fledged PvP-fight kills.

On the other hand, overly focussing on PvE will lead to PvP where exploits run rampant, the bully gangs will form, and push many a hopeful out of PvP entirely. It does need some oversight to keep the balance...

...just coming from a game where both parts went to shambles...

I agree with this, and it is very hard thing to do. The scary part of this whole mess is that PVP is turning into PVE. Just instead of grinding mobs, we are grinding other players. I am not sure if that is good or bad.

Waseem · October 2015

PvP sucks because PvPers made it suck. therfore dont do anything about PvP.
i like PvE in this game, alot.

rager82b14_ESO · October 2015

Waseem wrote: »

PvP sucks because PvPers made it suck. therfore dont do anything about PvP.
i like PvE in this game, alot.

You can't really blame the community for that. I have had pve players be even more toxic than pvp players. (In one guild, a girl was asked to not talk during raids as it distracts the guys.) Both sides have very bad apples, and the community should not play a factor on that play style. Even though you could counter that by saying that is the nature of a mmo.

Digerati · October 2015

Focus on PvP and your game will die...?? Have you never heard of DAoC? The game that is, what, 15 years old and still fairly active?

A lot of the ESO devs came from DAoC. This game is DAoC reincarnated (if you were a DAoC player, you feel very much at home in Cyrodiil and the Imperial Sewers).

I'm torn on whether or not they should add small-scale PvP... Perhaps in just timed events? Like, 4 hours an arena opens up in Imperial City that pits 4 of the top current online players from each realm against each other in some kind of domination or CTF or whatever type match... compete for a global ayelid shrine that lasts 3 hours? I bet a lot of people would be trying to climb the leaderboards to get put on that team, and a lot of people would be interested to watch that competition.

Callous2208 · October 2015

I am a pve'r who loves mmo's and have for a very long time. I don't hate pvp. I pvp occasionally although it's definitely not my main focus. Just going off of my personal experience through the years, I'm starting to feel like this: PvP and PvE cannot coincide peacefully and successfully in an mmo these days. When they exist in the same title, they are detrimental to one another. There are people who love one or the other, and there are people who love both, but the core goals and systems of each work directly against each other. Change for the better in one will almost always make things worse in the other. I do not know what the solution to this predicament is beyond total separation of the two vastly different gameplay types.

winterbornb14_ESO · October 2015

DAoC was from a time when there were few MMO's to choose from and it took a huge hit when it focused on PvP. The PvE players kept it going until better PvE focused MMO's came out and then................it lingered on with a small PvP population.

A slow death does not make a game great.

Go play Darkfall and see how a pure PvP MMO works out.

Lets see Warhammer, Age of Conan and on and on.............. Had so much potential but PvP games do not last or prosper compared to PvE.

Orchish · October 2015

Quite a toxic PvE crowed this game has going by some of the posts in here.

Digerati · October 2015

winterbornb14_ESO wrote: »

DAoC was from a time when there were few MMO's to choose from and it took a huge hit when it focused on PvP. The PvE players kept it going until better PvE focused MMO's came out and then................it lingered on with a small PvP population.

A slow death does not make a game great.

Go play Darkfall and see how a pure PvP MMO works out.

Lets see Warhammer, Age of Conan and on and on.............. Had so much potential but PvP games do not last or prosper compared to PvE.

DAoC still has a vibrant community. It's been a few months since I've played but there was definitely population there, every battleground had a fair amount of players and there was constant action in the frontiers. Darkfall has so many problems, none of which are its focus on PvP. Warhammer was incomplete and directly competed with its predecessor, DAoC. Age of Conan is a glitch fest with mediocre story. None of the games you mentioned include their pvp features in their list of problems. ESO is a tremendous game because of its robust integration of pve and pvp.

Callous2208 · October 2015

Orchish wrote: »

Quite a toxic PvE crowed this game has going by some of the posts in here.

I wouldn't call it toxic. Yes a bit negative but you have to understand where most of them are coming from. 20+ years of mmo experience has shown a lot of people that when titles start to lean more towards PvP focus, a decay of overall quality or slow fall into non existence is the consequence. Mmo's that start out solely focused on PvP usually don't fair well either.

Digerati · October 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

I am a pve'r who loves mmo's and have for a very long time. I don't hate pvp. I pvp occasionally although it's definitely not my main focus. Just going off of my personal experience through the years, I'm starting to feel like this: PvP and PvE cannot coincide peacefully and successfully in an mmo these days. When they exist in the same title, they are detrimental to one another. There are people who love one or the other, and there are people who love both, but the core goals and systems of each work directly against each other. Change for the better in one will almost always make things worse in the other. I do not know what the solution to this predicament is beyond total separation of the two vastly different gameplay types.

You make a lot of claims in this post but you fail to substantiate a single one of them. Assume I disagree with your premise that pve and pvp cannot coincide (I do disagree btw, but you should assume that out of the gate instead of assuming that people will accept your opinions as truth without you offering any proof or supporting arguments), how or why can't they coincide? You just feel like that?