Why ZOS Should CONVERT Veteran Ranks to Regular Levels.

Gidorick

I have another thread that outlines HOW Vet Ranks can be changed to levels with numbers and charts and graphs HERE... that's not what this thread is. This thread is to offer an alternative to the handful of "Remove/Don't Remove Veteran Ranks" threads that have popped up recently.

While it is true that ZOS has said they would remove Veteran Ranks (and they kind of HAVE to at this point, if for no other reason than to save face) they don't have to castrate everyone's character that has earned Vet Ranks at level 50. ZOS could simply remove the Veteran Ranks and raise the level cap to 80, which is just about the XP equivalent of VR 16. You are probably wondering why ZOS would want to do this. Well... lets give 4 reasons!

• Preserve gear and provisions!
  I really can't imagine what ZOS is going to do about gear requirements and provisioning requirements without post-50 levels. They could have them dependent on champion points where 30 or so champion points is the equivalent to one level. This just seems like a bad idea since champion points can be earned by characters who are below level 50. Would a level 45 character who has 500 CPs suddenly be able to use VR 16 equivalent equipment as soon as they reach level 50? That seems to be a really good way to completely destroy post 50 progression. But maybe that's what they are looking to do.
• Seamless progression!
  The idea of Veteran Ranks for an Elder Scrolls game always seemed odd to me. Having straight levels past 50 to progress through would make the game seem much more seemless than the segmentation we see now.
• Faster post 50 leveling milestones!
  People like to progress. Seeing that bar fill and that number go up is satisfying. By converting Vet Ranks to levels players will level through post 50 progression much faster than they do now... or so it would seem.
• Battle Leveling friendly!
  With Battle Leveling being used in DLC many of us hope the mechanic will some-day allow us to scale downward to older zones so all zones can always be viable for play. Battle leveling from level 23 to level 80 makes much more sense, and is easier to comprehend, than battle leveling from level 23 to Veteran 16.

Now, I completely understand that a few of these points becomes moot if ZOS just cuts leveling off at 50. End game progression wouldn't exist and battle leveling would be to level 50... both of those things seem like they would hinder the future of the game and would dissuade player from continued play. People like to progress! Converting Veteran Ranks to Levels would preserve that long-progression, but would just make it much more accessible than it is now.

Anyway... Those are my thoughts. What are yours?

temjiu

Straight Levels isn't a bad idea. There's a reason that most MMO's stuck with it as a tried and true system..it's easy to mark progress with it.

The downside is that it's a constant treadmill effect, and though it's been successful in many MMO's in the past, there's also a reason why many are trying to go with different systems. It's the idea of growth w/o forcing players into a mold of "raid to get highest gear in game, buy expansion, gear that you just worked 6 months to get is now obsolete, gratz on your new trash greens that outperform your legendary items...welcome to the gear grind again." that tends to burn people out.

Speaking philosophically, it's a tough spot for any MMO to be in. Players like feeling that regular, steady progress...but we hate the expansion treadmill. having a flexible, intrepid open elder game with no "levels" is great, but then we lose that consistent sense of regular progression, and it's not as "rewarding" feeling. MMO's are in a tough spot these days, they are trying to satisfy both side of that coin.

I think that as long as they reduced the curve...gave people more levels with shorter climbs in-between..and gave more options at elder game to get there, people would be OK with it. It's not Just the levels that bug people...it's the crud in between (cough...caldwell's...cough) that you are FORCED to deal with just to get there. I would have been perfectly happy to have had my character end it's leveling at Molag's death, and spent most my time after that gathering shards, lorebooks, skill points, and running dungeons (which didn't exist at the time). I would have killed for an Orsinium expansion at that point. but it wasn't there, so I left the game.

If all the DLC's after this are like orsinium, then there's very little need for levels post 50. and GW2 has proven that you dont' necessarily need "levels" in order to enjoy the game. There level cap has been the same for years...but they add new and intersting content in ways that make you want to play, in both the new areas and the old areas. IMO, it's a landmark concept that other MMO's need to be able to fly with, even if not in the same flavor. It's the idea that if the story and content and challenges are interesting and enjoyable, even on a repeated basis, then level isn't critical.

IN GW2, my lvl 60 warrior can hop into a lvl 10 area, and is immediately scaled down to a lvl 10 (a kick butt lvl 10, but a lvl 10 all the same). I can play with other lvl 10's, the content isn't trivial to me, and I still get rewards (exp is scaled to your real level ). I can still do the challenges, get achievements, and unlock skills and items. And there is no penalty to playing areas that are too low for you (too high is still out of reach). you can run around and explore everything, and level up that way. Or level up via crafting. Or do the questlines and skip entire areas if you want. and there are many things to do in the game outside of just getting levels. While ESO is a different beast, I think that they have the materials necessary to take a similar concept and fly with it.

Waffennacht

@temjiu what about PvP?

I would guess an mmo that's not primarily PvP could do what you say and everything you said, but I noted nothing reguarding PvP?

To me vet levels are for PvP, as you can complete all PvE under geared or under leveled. These higher levels are for the PvP, brb

kuscoe

Waffennacht wrote: »

@temjiu what about PvP?

I would guess an mmo that's not primarily PvP could do what you say and everything you said, but I noted nothing reguarding PvP?

To me vet levels are for PvP, as you can complete all PvE under geared or under leveled. These higher levels are for the PvP, brb

With the new battle leveling system it would already be fine

Players would be scaled to max rank stats and thos at max rank would be left alone

I feel like this is what they are intending to do but dont know otherwise since they havnt said anything I am aware of

Jura23

Would mean the gear becomes obsolete every few months. Which is exactly what most ppl critcized about rasising v cap. But yes, that's how it is in every other MMO. I'm curious if they stick to that route.

Nirnrot

I have a feeling that we will get much more information from ZOS come early 2016. As for my own speculation, I see them going the level route. It's one of the easiest ways for them to balance the veteran gear, food, stats, etc. We will see though. Maybe they invent some new crazy system we've never even heard of before lol

Valrien

You're about 15 levels off. As it stands the cap is level 65.

Jura23

Nirnrot wrote: »

I have a feeling that we will get much more information from ZOS come early 2016. As for my own speculation, I see them going the level route. It's one of the easiest ways for them to balance the veteran gear, food, stats, etc. We will see though. Maybe they invent some new crazy system we've never even heard of before lol

Cool thing would be if the gear you equip would adjust to your lvl.

Artemisshrikes

Gidorick wrote: »

I have another thread that outlines HOW Vet Ranks can be changed to levels with numbers and charts and graphs HERE... that's not what this thread is. This thread is to offer an alternative to the handful of "Remove/Don't Remove Veteran Ranks" threads that have popped up recently.

While it is true that ZOS has said they would remove Veteran Ranks (and they kind of HAVE to at this point, if for no other reason than to save face) they don't have to castrate everyone's character that has earned Vet Ranks at level 50. ZOS could simply remove the Veteran Ranks and raise the level cap to 80, which is just about the XP equivalent of VR 16. You are probably wondering why ZOS would want to do this. Well... lets give 4 reasons!

• Preserve gear and provisions!
  I really can't imagine what ZOS is going to do about gear requirements and provisioning requirements without post-50 levels. They could have them dependent on champion points where 30 or so champion points is the equivalent to one level. This just seems like a bad idea since champion points can be earned by characters who are below level 50. Would a level 45 character who has 500 CPs suddenly be able to use VR 16 equivalent equipment as soon as they reach level 50? That seems to be a really good way to completely destroy post 50 progression. But maybe that's what they are looking to do.
• Seamless progression!
  The idea of Veteran Ranks for an Elder Scrolls game always seemed odd to me. Having straight levels past 50 to progress through would make the game seem much more seemless than the segmentation we see now.
• Faster post 50 leveling milestones!
  People like to progress. Seeing that bar fill and that number go up is satisfying. By converting Vet Ranks to levels players will level through post 50 progression much faster than they do now... or so it would seem.
• Battle Leveling friendly!
  With Battle Leveling being used in DLC many of us hope the mechanic will some-day allow us to scale downward to older zones so all zones can always be viable for play. Battle leveling from level 23 to level 80 makes much more sense, and is easier to comprehend, than battle leveling from level 23 to Veteran 16.

Now, I completely understand that a few of these points becomes moot if ZOS just cuts leveling off at 50. End game progression wouldn't exist and battle leveling would be to level 50... both of those things seem like they would hinder the future of the game and would dissuade player from continued play. People like to progress! Converting Veteran Ranks to Levels would preserve that long-progression, but would just make it much more accessible than it is now.

Anyway... Those are my thoughts. What are yours?

they already said the cap will be increased to VR 18 on next dlc

Jura23

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I have another thread that outlines HOW Vet Ranks can be changed to levels with numbers and charts and graphs HERE... that's not what this thread is. This thread is to offer an alternative to the handful of "Remove/Don't Remove Veteran Ranks" threads that have popped up recently.

While it is true that ZOS has said they would remove Veteran Ranks (and they kind of HAVE to at this point, if for no other reason than to save face) they don't have to castrate everyone's character that has earned Vet Ranks at level 50. ZOS could simply remove the Veteran Ranks and raise the level cap to 80, which is just about the XP equivalent of VR 16. You are probably wondering why ZOS would want to do this. Well... lets give 4 reasons!

• Preserve gear and provisions!
  I really can't imagine what ZOS is going to do about gear requirements and provisioning requirements without post-50 levels. They could have them dependent on champion points where 30 or so champion points is the equivalent to one level. This just seems like a bad idea since champion points can be earned by characters who are below level 50. Would a level 45 character who has 500 CPs suddenly be able to use VR 16 equivalent equipment as soon as they reach level 50? That seems to be a really good way to completely destroy post 50 progression. But maybe that's what they are looking to do.
• Seamless progression!
  The idea of Veteran Ranks for an Elder Scrolls game always seemed odd to me. Having straight levels past 50 to progress through would make the game seem much more seemless than the segmentation we see now.
• Faster post 50 leveling milestones!
  People like to progress. Seeing that bar fill and that number go up is satisfying. By converting Vet Ranks to levels players will level through post 50 progression much faster than they do now... or so it would seem.
• Battle Leveling friendly!
  With Battle Leveling being used in DLC many of us hope the mechanic will some-day allow us to scale downward to older zones so all zones can always be viable for play. Battle leveling from level 23 to level 80 makes much more sense, and is easier to comprehend, than battle leveling from level 23 to Veteran 16.

Now, I completely understand that a few of these points becomes moot if ZOS just cuts leveling off at 50. End game progression wouldn't exist and battle leveling would be to level 50... both of those things seem like they would hinder the future of the game and would dissuade player from continued play. People like to progress! Converting Veteran Ranks to Levels would preserve that long-progression, but would just make it much more accessible than it is now.

Anyway... Those are my thoughts. What are yours?

they already said the cap will be increased to VR 18 on next dlc

Link pls?

EDS604

yeah, link plz indeed. i thought they weren't raising cap anymore after orsinium..
with this horrible rng and insane grind i personally think raising cap after 6 months is ridiculous..

CaptainObvious

Gidorick wrote: »

snip
Anyway... Those are my thoughts. What are yours?

As I understand it, the CP system was intended to be a replacement for vet levels. That hints at just flat 50. However, there is no current readily apparent strength gauge on CP.

Additionally, as I posted before, converting them back to regular levels will cut off more areas for XP gain as XP gain will be based on the pre-vet system. Any level of vet can gain XP from a 45 at cold harbor because they are +-5 levels (50) from the monster. If they suddenly become 65, then no dice.

If the solution then is to just battle level all areas to v15, then that tells me there is a problem with progression in general and in total and that levels are meaningless. Guess it could be Whose Levels is it Anyways?

Additionally, the team would have to spend time rebalancing the content again. Right now they tend to spend too much focus on rebalancing the trivial IMO and attempting to make sure you play content how they want you to play. Like the curtailing of group dungeon speed runs, FG mud crabs, etc. The more tweaks to the old, the less new things we get.

temjiu

Waffennacht wrote: »

@temjiu what about PvP?

I would guess an mmo that's not primarily PvP could do what you say and everything you said, but I noted nothing reguarding PvP?

To me vet levels are for PvP, as you can complete all PvE under geared or under leveled. These higher levels are for the PvP, brb

I think Kuscoe beat me to it Waff. but he's correct. It's all about the scaling, something already existing in the game. CP's wouldn't be impacted either way as they'd still be in the game. As it is currently, I jump into my PvP campaign on my lvl 15 sorc, and my health and stats are scaled up to VR16 levels (some calculated average I assume). The advantage a true vr16 would have in the old system would still exist in the new system: more skills available (via skillpoints still in the game), CP (still in the game) and gear stats (still in the game). And of course, experience on their class of choice, something that can't be taken away with VR.

VR only serves right now as an artifical barrier to eldergame, in irritating ways. "just" getting rid of VR wont cure every ill the game has, but they will do far more then that when they finally pull teh plug on VR. gear rebalancing, instance/group content rebalancing...it's a big project that covers more then just VR. If Orsinium is anythink like what they plan moving forward, they're goal is an open elder game, not one locked behind a Caldwell grind. I love Orsinium, I love 1-50, I even like PvP in this game...a bit Don't really play it in other games, but I don't mind it here. But Caldwell sticks in my craw, like a bad jalepeno popper...you just can't get rid of the taste.

temjiu

A thought had occurred to me as I was browsing various web articles about CP and the planned VR changes...They had indicated that the CP system was the first big step in getting rid of the VR levels. Now...the CP system, while still incremental (you simply build CP instead of levels), it's a much more open and flexible system, that isn't level specific, and allows for character growth past the level "cap".

Why would they institue another "level cap" when they just put in place a system that makes that cap redundant, and archaic? I mean, outside of levels gating gear/instances (cheap mans way to establish power thresholds), leveling doesn't do much post 50. the skill points you get from it can easily be attributed in other areas (an example would be achievements or possible collections), same with stat points (those could be rolled into the early levels, double points past lvl 45 as an example). Outside of that, levels don't do much. CP is the real growth potential past 50.

Take a look at the pie chart in this link: esoacademy.com/champion-system/ (I think they got it from the summit). You don't see any portion of it referencing levels (except perhaps the skills from points gained in leveling). CP points consist of a dominant portion of the pie.

Based on other info as well, I'm beginning to wonder if they plan on making Veteran an open threshold. you get to 50, your a vet, congrats...now you gain CP. no levels. changing things to make the leveling scheme fit wiht 1-50 (say, 51-80 as mentioned), it would certainly make things feel like your progressing faster, but it really wouldn't solve all the issues they have today, with a "dual" level scheme post 50, gear treadmill, etc.

ItsGlaive

My thoughts are that this negates the whole reason for changing VR in the first place - to lessen the levelling grind and open the end game up to people quicker.

Remove VR, establish the cap at 50, and open up all gold/silver zones to questing at that level, in any order. As for gear, you know my thoughts on the options there @Gidorick from the other thread

DRXHarbinger

Regular levelling sucks. No one played something like battlefield before? It becomes the most useless thing on earth trying to hit level 140 to the point after level I think 120 for me I just didn't care at all. Hours and hours for nothing. Just ask yourselves what would you do if there were no level cap increases? There would be nothing to aim for or play for. Eventually everyone will be boss and have all the gear and PVP will become a game of chance (there is NO skill in PVP) it's just who strikes first and what class you are (read sorc hating threads) and what gear you have on. If everyone had the same gear it's going to get pretty dull they may as well do away with it and just make outfits for people to wear. Higher levels keep the interest flowing and make you work that little bit harder to stay at the top. Hardly a chore. It took most people under 4hrs to go from V14-16. As for grinding gear most people still haven't got it all anyway. It's taken me a month to get the overwhelming set with the right traits and the MK helm and I'd do it all over again. New levels and new gear, new grinds = more fun and keeps it interesting. No vet level removal needed. ZOS ignore the people that hating having to put hours in. Majority of people appreciate variety (if it was an issue there would be thousands of people on here complaining over it, not fewer than one hundred )

Gidorick

So, you're saying regular leveling sucks @DRXHarbinger, but we need levels to keep the game hot and fresh?

I think leveling can become monotonous, but it has to be mitigated properly. When games get into the 150... 200 level range it can just seem daunting.

I think the key is to add progression unlockable gameplay. Like... how you can't go to Cyrodiil until level 10. What if there was something at level 25, 50, 75, 100, 125... etc... that opened more gameplay. More guilds. Instruments. Homes. Ships. Etc.

I have a concept (here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199791/perpetual-independent-end-game-level-progression-concept) that would add regular level cap increases that are INDEPENDENT of DLC releases. This would make leveling in-an-of-itself a goal... and if they convert VR to levels (top out at 80) then add my concept on top of that and we would see 12 levels added each year. after 10 years we would only be at level 200. If ZOS wanted to slow that down, they could space out progression to every 2 months instead of every one. Anyway, check out the nuance of my concept in the above link if you're interested.

Mostly I don't like the idea of everyone just being at "level cap" because I think it removes the carrot from the game. Then ZOS will just make progression dependent on gear. I hate. hate. HATE gear progression. It is 100X... no 1 MILLION times wrong for an Elder Scrolls game, but I think that's where we're going.

Gidorick

temjiu wrote: »

Take a look at the pie chart in this link: esoacademy.com/champion-system/ (I think they got it from the summit). You don't see any portion of it referencing levels (except perhaps the skills from points gained in leveling). CP points consist of a dominant portion of the pie.

Based on other info as well, I'm beginning to wonder if they plan on making Veteran an open threshold. you get to 50, your a vet, congrats...now you gain CP. no levels. changing things to make the leveling scheme fit wiht 1-50 (say, 51-80 as mentioned), it would certainly make things feel like your progressing faster, but it really wouldn't solve all the issues they have today, with a "dual" level scheme post 50, gear treadmill, etc.

Link is broken @temjiu.

I have a handful of concepts that work together to create a different end game. You're right, levels PLUS cp is dual progression. Well, I think we should have perpetual leveling (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199791/perpetual-independent-end-game-level-progression-concept)
and the CP system should be more of a active passive buff system and CPs should be used as a currency (meaning they are "spent" in game for different things... NOT gear... but different buffs and effects.) http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219662/cp-active-passive-bar-cp-burn-concept/p1

My concepts would make end game quite different from what we have now and what we are moving toward. If you like the concepts, please post on their respective threads to support the idea! If you don't like the concepts... don't worry, ZOS probably wont listen to silly ol' me.

RooBeeO

Jura23 wrote: »

Nirnrot wrote: »

I have a feeling that we will get much more information from ZOS come early 2016. As for my own speculation, I see them going the level route. It's one of the easiest ways for them to balance the veteran gear, food, stats, etc. We will see though. Maybe they invent some new crazy system we've never even heard of before lol

Cool thing would be if the gear you equip would adjust to your lvl.

This is what we need.

or

If you had a weapon that was normally a VR16 then as a VR2 you could still equip it just with lower stats, as you level those stats get higher, until you reach max level and max stats.This can be done with all weapons and armor / jewelry.

Everyone wins the Crafters (won't lose out), Sellers, Buyers and Users also it would cater for all builds.

lathbury

the way I see it going is the vet level hitting 20 then being converted to 100 regular levels.

Malmai

Gidorick wrote: »

I have another thread that outlines HOW Vet Ranks can be changed to levels with numbers and charts and graphs HERE... that's not what this thread is. This thread is to offer an alternative to the handful of "Remove/Don't Remove Veteran Ranks" threads that have popped up recently.

While it is true that ZOS has said they would remove Veteran Ranks (and they kind of HAVE to at this point, if for no other reason than to save face) they don't have to castrate everyone's character that has earned Vet Ranks at level 50. ZOS could simply remove the Veteran Ranks and raise the level cap to 80, which is just about the XP equivalent of VR 16. You are probably wondering why ZOS would want to do this. Well... lets give 4 reasons!

• Preserve gear and provisions!
  I really can't imagine what ZOS is going to do about gear requirements and provisioning requirements without post-50 levels. They could have them dependent on champion points where 30 or so champion points is the equivalent to one level. This just seems like a bad idea since champion points can be earned by characters who are below level 50. Would a level 45 character who has 500 CPs suddenly be able to use VR 16 equivalent equipment as soon as they reach level 50? That seems to be a really good way to completely destroy post 50 progression. But maybe that's what they are looking to do.
• Seamless progression!
  The idea of Veteran Ranks for an Elder Scrolls game always seemed odd to me. Having straight levels past 50 to progress through would make the game seem much more seemless than the segmentation we see now.
• Faster post 50 leveling milestones!
  People like to progress. Seeing that bar fill and that number go up is satisfying. By converting Vet Ranks to levels players will level through post 50 progression much faster than they do now... or so it would seem.
• Battle Leveling friendly!
  With Battle Leveling being used in DLC many of us hope the mechanic will some-day allow us to scale downward to older zones so all zones can always be viable for play. Battle leveling from level 23 to level 80 makes much more sense, and is easier to comprehend, than battle leveling from level 23 to Veteran 16.

Now, I completely understand that a few of these points becomes moot if ZOS just cuts leveling off at 50. End game progression wouldn't exist and battle leveling would be to level 50... both of those things seem like they would hinder the future of the game and would dissuade player from continued play. People like to progress! Converting Veteran Ranks to Levels would preserve that long-progression, but would just make it much more accessible than it is now.

Anyway... Those are my thoughts. What are yours?

You gnna see what pain is when they remove VR levels...

Artheiron

I'm no mmo math expert, so this is just my opinion. I think level 60 should be the cap. 50 level until coldharbour, 5-10-15 level cap raise per X number DLCs depending on DLC's size, or game's needs.

Remove cadwell's gold and silver quests. Let people do their factions' quests then leave them to decide what to do. compeleting other factions' quests would still make sense thanks to the champion point system.

The main story progression path should be "your faction" -> "coldharbour" -> "DLC story progression." Enemy faction quests should be optional for grinding champion points, crafting location etc. Because, story-wise I'd call those quests b..t. Meridia says ok now you're my champion! grats! you'll go to your enemy faction, they won't recognize you, they'll still call you vestige even when you're no longer empty, hollowed, soulless.

And I beat the god of bdsm, the glorious molag bal for the pity's sake give me a break.

One of the quests in orsinium a guard tells you to stay back, you either persuade the guard or say "dude I kicked molag's balls. outta my way scrub." That makes more sense to me.

Anyway I would like to go a little radical here, personally how I'd like grinding quests on other factions land? making the level 40-50 area pvpve of course. But obviously this won't suit for everyone. I respect some people hate pvp and some people don't have time to play the game that hardcore. A toggle would help here but that'd be a hard work of coding. Still really awesome to dream about it. Raiding their cities.. killing their villagers.. burning their homes and eating their long pointy ears.

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

These reasons are moronic..

Moonshadow66

Artemisshrikes wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I have another thread that outlines HOW Vet Ranks can be changed to levels with numbers and charts and graphs HERE... that's not what this thread is. This thread is to offer an alternative to the handful of "Remove/Don't Remove Veteran Ranks" threads that have popped up recently.

While it is true that ZOS has said they would remove Veteran Ranks (and they kind of HAVE to at this point, if for no other reason than to save face) they don't have to castrate everyone's character that has earned Vet Ranks at level 50. ZOS could simply remove the Veteran Ranks and raise the level cap to 80, which is just about the XP equivalent of VR 16. You are probably wondering why ZOS would want to do this. Well... lets give 4 reasons!

• Preserve gear and provisions!
  I really can't imagine what ZOS is going to do about gear requirements and provisioning requirements without post-50 levels. They could have them dependent on champion points where 30 or so champion points is the equivalent to one level. This just seems like a bad idea since champion points can be earned by characters who are below level 50. Would a level 45 character who has 500 CPs suddenly be able to use VR 16 equivalent equipment as soon as they reach level 50? That seems to be a really good way to completely destroy post 50 progression. But maybe that's what they are looking to do.
• Seamless progression!
  The idea of Veteran Ranks for an Elder Scrolls game always seemed odd to me. Having straight levels past 50 to progress through would make the game seem much more seemless than the segmentation we see now.
• Faster post 50 leveling milestones!
  People like to progress. Seeing that bar fill and that number go up is satisfying. By converting Vet Ranks to levels players will level through post 50 progression much faster than they do now... or so it would seem.
• Battle Leveling friendly!
  With Battle Leveling being used in DLC many of us hope the mechanic will some-day allow us to scale downward to older zones so all zones can always be viable for play. Battle leveling from level 23 to level 80 makes much more sense, and is easier to comprehend, than battle leveling from level 23 to Veteran 16.

Now, I completely understand that a few of these points becomes moot if ZOS just cuts leveling off at 50. End game progression wouldn't exist and battle leveling would be to level 50... both of those things seem like they would hinder the future of the game and would dissuade player from continued play. People like to progress! Converting Veteran Ranks to Levels would preserve that long-progression, but would just make it much more accessible than it is now.

Anyway... Those are my thoughts. What are yours?

they already said the cap will be increased to VR 18 on next dlc

I only remember that VR18 stuff was datamined (I think it was runes? I forgot), and ZOS said it won't be raised with the Orsinium update. Not sure if there was a clear statement to whether or not it will be raised at all.

MrDerrikk

Next update with VR18...each piece of VR17 craftables takes 300 mats, and VR18 takes 500! Plus they'll make them only drop in the new areas, and be rarer than VR15-16 mats are now.

Moonshadow66

MrDerrikk wrote: »

Next update with VR18...each piece of VR17 craftables takes 300 mats, and VR18 takes 500! Plus they'll make them only drop in the new areas, and be rarer than VR15-16 mats are now.

If this is the case, I'll craft Jute armor for my VR16-18s just to make a point.

Jitterbug

Valrien wrote: »

You're about 15 levels off. As it stands the cap is level 65.

When I try to convince my buddy to come back he calculates it like this:

1-50 = 50 levels
vr1-5 = 50 levels
vr5-10 = 50 levels
vr10-15 = 50 levels
vr15-16 = 10 levels

total = 210 levels

He left his char at level 34 so that's too much for his mind to wrap itself around. Then he looks to Blizzard's MMO which has like half the levels and it's been out since, what, 1921?

UltimaJoe777

An MMO is easily definable by how easy or hard it is to reach a level cap. This game is, by far, the easiest out of all MMOs I have ever played. If Zenimax decided to make it take more experience than it does now to gain levels before Vet Ranks, then raise the cap to oh, I don't know, 500? I would totally support it! As for making enemy scaling work out in that regard well easy to say dungeons, trials, etc. would still scale but beyond that Zenimax could iron it out lol

Bottom line is the longer it takes to reach a level cap the better, because it gives people something long term to shoot for rather than hit the cap in a few days or so and go PvP the remainder of their play time away.

Gidorick

Jitterbug wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

You're about 15 levels off. As it stands the cap is level 65.

When I try to convince my buddy to come back he calculates it like this:

1-50 = 50 levels
vr1-5 = 50 levels
vr5-10 = 50 levels
vr10-15 = 50 levels
vr15-16 = 10 levels

total = 210 levels

He left his char at level 34 so that's too much for his mind to wrap itself around. Then he looks to Blizzard's MMO which has like half the levels and it's been out since, what, 1921?

Using the amount of xp it takes to get from 1-50 and the rate of xp requirement increase vet 16 comes to ABOUT level 80.

I go over that here @Jitterbug & @Valrien : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174148/level-50-80-vr-1-16-replacement-a-new-ish-concept/p1

Jitterbug

Gidorick wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

You're about 15 levels off. As it stands the cap is level 65.

When I try to convince my buddy to come back he calculates it like this:

1-50 = 50 levels
vr1-5 = 50 levels
vr5-10 = 50 levels
vr10-15 = 50 levels
vr15-16 = 10 levels

total = 210 levels

He left his char at level 34 so that's too much for his mind to wrap itself around. Then he looks to Blizzard's MMO which has like half the levels and it's been out since, what, 1921?

Using the amount of xp it takes to get from 1-50 and the rate of xp requirement increase vet 16 comes to ABOUT level 80.

I go over that here @Jitterbug & @Valrien : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174148/level-50-80-vr-1-16-replacement-a-new-ish-concept/p1

I'll pass that along

Gidorick

Jitterbug wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

You're about 15 levels off. As it stands the cap is level 65.

When I try to convince my buddy to come back he calculates it like this:

1-50 = 50 levels
vr1-5 = 50 levels
vr5-10 = 50 levels
vr10-15 = 50 levels
vr15-16 = 10 levels

total = 210 levels

He left his char at level 34 so that's too much for his mind to wrap itself around. Then he looks to Blizzard's MMO which has like half the levels and it's been out since, what, 1921?

Using the amount of xp it takes to get from 1-50 and the rate of xp requirement increase vet 16 comes to ABOUT level 80.

I go over that here @Jitterbug & @Valrien : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174148/level-50-80-vr-1-16-replacement-a-new-ish-concept/p1

I'll pass that along

awesome @Jitterbug! If he decides to play after seeing that thread, let us know... It would be awesome if the post was put to SOME use.