5/7 7/7 Heavy in PvP - why so useless

Visemere

honestly,

i dont get it, currently using more than 2 heavy in PvP is utterly pointless, there are no benefits, and actually you take a massive hit in dps and healing to do so....

why isnt there more love for those of us who want to wear 5-7 heavy in pvp?

cant we simply get more mitigation from damage as a bonus for this? or would it unbalance things?

whatever happened to that idiot who would charge into groups wearing full plate and still be there when his friends caught up because he was.. you know.. a tank! he might not dps well, but he had survivabilty... maybe perhaps remove the ridiculous 50% damage sheild nerf for someone wearing 7/7 heavy in pvp, give us a reason to wear full plate and not completely destroy an entire profession at end game.

rant over, fed up at having to spec for cloth/medium as a templar, i want to smash skulls and have survivability in plate, not cloth.

timidobserver

Heavy can work really well on a Templar once you hit the 400+ CP mark.

Bashev

Because a dps has average between 12-14k penatration. On top of that when you add debuff from skills and you mitigate like maximum 10% damage but you sacrifice a lot because the heavy bonuses are not useful, especially after the stamina regen nerf while blocking.

Jura23

And yet all the time you see around here posts complaining that ppl aren't able to burst dps somebody because of dmg reduction. I bet most of these "OP" toons are wearing heavy.

Visemere

point being, no-one seriously wears more than 2 heavy.

there is no benefit to doing so.

there should be.

a tank should be a tank no matter the scene, if i spec for dmg mitigation i know im sacrificing dps, but in pvp this doesnt work, you sacrifice everything by using more than 2 heavy... and going 7/7 heavy, you dps like a wet paper towel which is fine, but you still get bursted down because of nerfs to mitigation... seems @ZOS dont want heavy to be used in pvp.

Jura23

Visemere wrote: »

point being, no-one seriously wears more than 2 heavy.

there is no benefit to doing so.

there should be.

a tank should be a tank no matter the scene, if i spec for dmg mitigation i know im sacrificing dps, but in pvp this doesnt work, you sacrifice everything by using more than 2 heavy... and going 7/7 heavy, you dps like a wet paper towel which is fine, but you still get bursted down because of nerfs to mitigation... seems @ZOS dont want heavy to be used in pvp.

I do. I admit I do that from the beginning. Maybe I would do better in 5 medium, I don't know, but I play tank i PvE and can't be bothered to change my gear. But I don't feel like I'm being pushed around too much in PvP.

usmcjdking

Here's the thing:

Everything else is tankier than the classic tank in PVP thanks to the Stamina nerf. ZOS so far has refused to acknowledge this regardless of how many people have mentioned that tanking in PVP is officially dead.

Tanks USED to be very fun in PVP but was a bit over-powered if they could stack a high enough stamina regen. We didn't have this amazing kill potential, but we could run into a fight and set up kills for the glass cannons. A nerf was definitely called for TBH. I was expecting an intelligent nerf designed to make tanking more interesting i.e., block radius is now 180 degrees, block costs increase the longer you hold block.

You know, well thought out, tested and intelligent nerfs.

Now the PVP tank is absolutely garbage. The only thing the PVP tank can do is honestly kill the burst NBs by stacking ridiculously high numbers of health regen.

willymchilybily

yeah to be honest, with penetration being favored against anything above 10k resistance and armor resistances hard capped, i could believe this, but would have to test it for myself before I could get on bored

i mean in theory it looks like on paper a 7/7 heavy armor user with the right sets and skills could be a really annoying if they decided to forgo almost all dps in favour of CC, survival, regen, self healing etc. and generally being a nuisance. but i expect the reality is it only takes that one guy running high penetration and you get sliced and diced without any real benefit from your set up

fanta

I would like to know are there Stam Nightbaldes wearing 5 or more heavy armors and doing well in pvp currently? Dps build btw.

Flattedfifth

Mmmmmmm.... 5 heavy works *extremely* well:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/212395/the-stamknight-dk-build-guide-by-sribes/p1

Personofsecrets

Bashev wrote: »

Because a dps has average between 12-14k penatration. On top of that when you add debuff from skills and you mitigate like maximum 10% damage but you sacrifice a lot because the heavy bonuses are not useful, especially after the stamina regen nerf while blocking.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler ,

Come on, I want to be just as effective in PVP.

Cathexis

I use 5/7 heavy and fully intend to move up to 7/7 heavy in the near future.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Believe me this topic has been thrown at ZOS just as much as a PvP arena yet they still do nothing about it.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/225175/heavy-armor-needs-buffed-already#latest .... This is just my 2 cents about changes that can work for it let alone every one else.

Visemere

being a templar my jabs sucks donkey ass with 7/7 heavy, which is fine if i wasnt being torn a new *** because of other passives virtually removing my armor that i chose to use instead of dps.

my solution would be to add extras to the HA passives that only kick in when wearing 5 6 or 7 pieces of heavy, this would discourage medium and cloth users from using them.

dmg reduction is needed.
cap armor pen at 25% for HA users with 5 or more peices.
add in some bonus for using 7/7 HA that allows our sheilds to be more effective both damage and the one you weild, we should be able to absorb damage, and be that cc, interrupt and annoying guy that runs through fights hitting the healers and casters.

Akinos

Visemere wrote: »

being a templar my jabs sucks donkey ass with 7/7 heavy, which is fine if i wasnt being torn a new *** because of other passives virtually removing my armor that i chose to use instead of dps.

my solution would be to add extras to the HA passives that only kick in when wearing 5 6 or 7 pieces of heavy, this would discourage medium and cloth users from using them.

dmg reduction is needed.
cap armor pen at 25% for HA users with 5 or more peices.
add in some bonus for using 7/7 HA that allows our sheilds to be more effective both damage and the one you weild, we should be able to absorb damage, and be that cc, interrupt and annoying guy that runs through fights hitting the healers and casters.

7/7 heavy? No wonder you think heavy sucks, lol. 5 is all you should wear, and go 1 medium and 1 light if you have the undaunted passives, if not go 5 heavy and 2 light.

sabresandiego_ESO

5 heavy can be a very strong setup in pvp with the right build, particularly reactive armor. Reactive armor brings heavy on par with other armors in pvp. I either wear 5 medium 2 heavy shield breaker or 5 heavy 2 medium reactive armor when I play depending on my mood.

Flattedfifth

Guys wtf are you talking about!? You can have 5 heavy and still get your weapon power to 3.5k. Any more "buffs" and heavy armor would be godlike -_-

cschwingeb14_ESO

Lower regen, higher ability cost vs less damage taken and higher health/health regen

Lower damage (either from less weapon damage or less penetration), lower crit vs cheaper blocking

Honestly, the 5-heavy bonus is pretty anemic unless you build *completely* around it. 5-heavy needs to have something else added. I'd suggest:

5-heavy also give you the minor buff that reduces damage by 8%
Reduce the 5-heavy bonus to block cost by 10% to only 10% cost reduction
Make holding block only halve your stam regen

MrBeatDown

I dont know, I wear 5 heavy, all upgraded Legendary Divines Black Rose, and i love it. Anything done to buff heavy armor i will take and smile about it. Im very happy with the way heavy works now.....I dont see the problem. But im a Imperial DK, so i dont know how bad it affects other race/classes.

Hydrocodone

I wear 7/7 heavy as a stam DK and run immovable on my tank bar. 7 pieces gives a +35% duration taking it up to about 20 seconds which is on par with any other armor/spell resistance buff. I like to run around with 30k+ armor and spell resistance and when I swap to my 2h DPS bar I can buff to 3500+wepon dmg. The 5 sec CC immunity is nice too.

Skiserony

timidobserver wrote: »

Heavy can work really well on a Templar once you hit the 400+ CP mark.

That's what makes it even a bigger issue.

timidobserver

Skiserony wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Heavy can work really well on a Templar once you hit the 400+ CP mark.

That's what makes it even a bigger issue.

??

OtarTheMad

usmcjdking wrote: »

Here's the thing:

Everything else is tankier than the classic tank in PVP thanks to the Stamina nerf. ZOS so far has refused to acknowledge this regardless of how many people have mentioned that tanking in PVP is officially dead.

Tanks USED to be very fun in PVP but was a bit over-powered if they could stack a high enough stamina regen. We didn't have this amazing kill potential, but we could run into a fight and set up kills for the glass cannons. A nerf was definitely called for TBH. I was expecting an intelligent nerf designed to make tanking more interesting i.e., block radius is now 180 degrees, block costs increase the longer you hold block.

You know, well thought out, tested and intelligent nerfs.

Now the PVP tank is absolutely garbage. The only thing the PVP tank can do is honestly kill the burst NBs by stacking ridiculously high numbers of health regen.

Agreed.

I changed my tank DK to a stamina build just because it wasn't worth keeping him a tank anymore.

eliisra

You sadly need around 400 CP(500 even better), to make heavy work well in PvP.

With that amount you can make up for the loss of sustain + dmg, from not wearing medium or light. Instead you get something more unique that cant be obtained with any amount of CP, being a decent chunk of physical resistance.

k2blader

Is it really that useless? Isn't it helpful against physical/stamina attacks? Doesn't it complement stamina builds?

As a magicka build I wish I could wear more than 2 heavy pieces and still be effective.

Kammakazi

usmcjdking wrote: »

Here's the thing:

Everything else is tankier than the classic tank in PVP thanks to the Stamina nerf. ZOS so far has refused to acknowledge this regardless of how many people have mentioned that tanking in PVP is officially dead.

Tanks USED to be very fun in PVP but was a bit over-powered if they could stack a high enough stamina regen. We didn't have this amazing kill potential, but we could run into a fight and set up kills for the glass cannons. A nerf was definitely called for TBH. I was expecting an intelligent nerf designed to make tanking more interesting i.e., block radius is now 180 degrees, block costs increase the longer you hold block.

You know, well thought out, tested and intelligent nerfs.

Now the PVP tank is absolutely garbage. The only thing the PVP tank can do is honestly kill the burst NBs by stacking ridiculously high numbers of health regen.

A nerf to tanks because people don't know how to focus?

I mean compared to League of Legends... if you're honestly focusing the tank instead of the glass cannon... LOL

CaptainSilverbrow

I'm amazed this game is still in this state, with all the same problems, after a year and a half of suggestions and support from the playerbase. It's difficult to imagine a more disconnected lot of developers.

medieval_TOG

"I'm going to be a TANK!!!!!!!!"

"Just let me put on my slippers and dressing gown and I'm good to go"

Forestd16b14_ESO

Flattedfifth wrote: »

Guys wtf are you talking about!? You can have 5 heavy and still get your weapon power to 3.5k. Any more "buffs" and heavy armor would be godlike -_-

What game are you playing ? Cause in ESO full heavy in PvP makes you as useless as well... nothing cause nothing is more useless than a perma blocker who can't even block cast spam skills.

Forestd16b14_ESO

k2blader wrote: »

Is it really that useless? Isn't it helpful against physical/stamina attacks? Doesn't it complement stamina builds?

As a magicka build I wish I could wear more than 2 heavy pieces and still be effective.

That would be the case if players didn't have 50%-60% if not more armor/physical penetration turning that say 25K physical res into 10K roughly the same as medium armors res.

Molag_Crow

True