A proposal to stop wrecking blow spamming

svartorn

Give us more than 5 button slots and maybe we won't spam 1-3 skills.

Tdroid

On one hand, Nightblades can use Wrecking Blow in very imbalanced ways with their cloaks. And WB can be very difficult to handle for the inexperienced(like every other high-damage ability, like Frags, but mostly people complain about Sorc shields atm). At the same time, without WB actually being a powerful skill, there is pretty much no viable single target skill available for Stamina Dragonknights and Sorcerers.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Me? I'm starting to think that the open-ended nature of the classes is taking a higher toll on trying to balance the game than it is worth. Solution? I don't know. Maybe make it entirely possible to build tanks, healers and both stamina and magicka DPS with only the class skills + armor of choice and have the weapon skills there as flavor that is neither better nor worse.

I don't see any good way of balancing things. I doubt it would go over well with the subs to suddenly have rigidly defined classes like most games have. And even with rigid classes there will be balance issues to handle.

xXNesTXx

The costs and damage of WB is good....is a big weapon that have a big damage....this is logical

The problem is the speed of this skill....you can hit with the WB with the same speed like Steel Tornado but doing 4 or 5 times more damage, and that is not logical....

This skill needs a little cooldown similar to Inferno of DK to avoid all this annoying WB spamming

wazzz56

frozywozy wrote: »

Kronuxx wrote: »

Wrecking blow is easily avoidable if you are on the receiving end. It really is. And if you are on the delivering end, do you know how frustrating it is to land WB when it takes a sec cast time (which is a long time in a pvp fight) and it gets canceled multiple times because the other players moves around? Yeah, it's very frustrating. I'd love it if they gave class skill stamina alternatives as a high damage outputting skill to use rather than WB.

There is. Bitting Jabs and Surprise Attacks hit as hard as Wrecking Blow, if not more. Plus, Surprise Attacks don't even have a channeling or casting time and can be casted from stealth (cloak) in some scenarios.

Problem is that DKs and Sorcs don't have a high hitting stamina morph ability, yet.

both are far more easily spammed....WB takes a million years to cast...and has so so range...very rarely will you find somebody who does not spam something.....the only thing that needs nerfing is the calls for all the nerfing....

Jsmalls

I just hate the double CC that it can cause... And the fact that they can get off 3 of them if I have no stamina... Wouldn't mind the CC time to be dropped a bit...

Ezareth

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

and Ezareth you can survive 3 sorcs by using wings and (or) try to LoS them and you can stil use skills when 3 nb`s spam ambush, but you cant do nothing lying on the ground and w8 to get up and recieve next WB "fly to the skies". If you cant see the diference is your problem

I kill DKs spamming wings all the time with fragments (or overload). I've recently killed 4 nightblades ambushing me from stealth and I kill wrecking blow spammers all the time. That's why I said unless they're bad *and* you're extremely good, you don't.

mrdankles

Diminishing return would fix the problem. Next attack 20% then reduce the damage by 20% next use and so on until a max of 50% less damage. A lot more things need this other than wrecking blow.

jim_mau

spam skills?

please check your death recaps... all classes seem to be doing it one way or the other... common recaps:

surprise attack / ambush spam
javelin
frags / streak

wrecking blow just happens to be available to all classes. As probably it is the skill that hits hardest, burst is where its at in PVP atm, i see no one dropping dots in a warzone

how about more stamina options? but then they would all complain about the stamina whip spam lol

Angarato

wb needs a steep cost increase and/or a nerf in the damage. it needs to be a "CC move"
what they SHOULD do is move WB to the 5th 2hand ability and give rally to the fighters guild line.
then add in a spammable ability with decent damage and a debuff or buff of some kind (like ransack or heroic slash)

adding rally to the fighters guild would free up ALOT of new builds and choices. right now you need rally on basicly any stam build. and since you already have a 2hander wrecking blow is the easy choice. it hits stupid hard, the range is silly, the buff is great and the CC is very good and it costs basicly nothing.

Angarato

zornyan wrote: »

Wrecking blow does not empower itself btw guys, so it's not constantly buffing itself.

You can land an ambush/suprise attsck/ambush in the time it takes to land one wrecking blow.

Jabs isn't really a contender in pvp as 2 out of 4 hits miss more than anything.

It's very easy to counter, just run through the other player again and gain and they'll never land a single hit

getting so tired of people saying this ***. any wb spammer worth their fucknig salt snares you first, either with stampede, low slash, dk ability, bombard etc you're not gonna run through them, you're gonna get smashed in the face for 10k damage and fall on your ass. or you're gonna block it, take 5k damage and lose more stamina than it took him to do it and the next hit is already on the way.

you could dodge it, costs more stamina for you. he'll be right back on you with stampede and charging the next 1. you'll be out of stam soon and you will die.

you can snare break with shuffle or manouvers! again, heavy stamina abilities will leave you drained and dead very quickly.

TheNephilimCrow

As much damage as WB does, I refuse to use it in PvP. It's really cheap tactic and it takes no skill to use it. I am the kind of player who would rather think or fight through a tough spot instead of spamming a broken attack.

With that said, I do use WB in PvE (dungeons), but only when I want to hurry and finish something. It absolutely melts face of every Triple S Boss.

KundaliniHero

Although I always try to move through or around a WB spammer I wonder if it can be interrupted via bash, anyone tried this?

revonine

KundaliniHero wrote: »

Although I always try to move through or around a WB spammer I wonder if it can be interrupted via bash, anyone tried this?

WB is unbashable. Moving through or around though is the best way, you'll keep cancelling the channel and annoy the WB user to no end.

Anyway "spammer" is thrown around alot with regards to WB and tbh it's kinda unfair. Lot's of classes spam abilities for DPS. What is broken is CC immunity and that is causing many of the problems people have with this skill.

Stamsorc's and DK's would absolutely kill for an instant DPS ability like Surprise Attack.

Speaking of it's hilarious watching NB's using WB. Surprise Attack is far superior, difficult to dodge and gives the target CC immunity to fear.

Millerman34n

If I had a Stam whip I would use it, wb is terrible for 1vx and is easily countered by a good player, not to mention it can be interrupted and dodge roled, come near me on my sorc and just spam wb see how it works out for ya!

blur

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

What if you just L2P or try to learn counter it.

For example, walk through while WB is being casted. Simple as that.

Don't just run like a fool and spam AoE, observe what is going on around you and you start to see when WB is being casted.

Pls shut up, or explain me how you counter 3 ppl spaming WB on you ? Cyro is far from 1v1 you know. My armor is 25k and i stil get 8k + WB hits. This skill must be nerfed to the ground (i use 2h too but i dont use WB because is broken same as Reverberating Bash ) If ppl spam it - NERF it, problem solved. To all WB spaming monkeys, spare me your whining!
to ZoS -Fix WB, fix Reverberating Bash and for the love of god fix 2h axe bleed chanse (now is 100%). And is time to show some love to DK!

Tells people to spare him their "whining" while himself whining in thread whining about an ability. Irony?
Even more ridiculous asks for love to the most op class in the game. According to this person if you don't like something cry for nerfs. If ZOS takes their marching orders from stupidity like this their game is done.

Jade1986

Angarato wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Wrecking blow does not empower itself btw guys, so it's not constantly buffing itself.

You can land an ambush/suprise attsck/ambush in the time it takes to land one wrecking blow.

Jabs isn't really a contender in pvp as 2 out of 4 hits miss more than anything.

It's very easy to counter, just run through the other player again and gain and they'll never land a single hit

getting so tired of people saying this ***. any wb spammer worth their fucknig salt snares you first, either with stampede, low slash, dk ability, bombard etc you're not gonna run through them, you're gonna get smashed in the face for 10k damage and fall on your ass. or you're gonna block it, take 5k damage and lose more stamina than it took him to do it and the next hit is already on the way.

you could dodge it, costs more stamina for you. he'll be right back on you with stampede and charging the next 1. you'll be out of stam soon and you will die.

you can snare break with shuffle or manouvers! again, heavy stamina abilities will leave you drained and dead very quickly.

Then the complaint should be that the 2 handed tree is lacking another damaging ability aside from critical rush and wrecking blow. executioner is just terrible unless they have really low health, and brawler is so weak it is ridiculous.

olivaresdonjuan

Why not have a wrecking blow morph that is instant but has no cc or buff and have the other morph as is, with the cc and buff but with the 1 sec cast. Get rid of that other useless morph dizzying swing. That would at least make 2h dks useful in PvP. Easy for the other classes to say nerf wrecking blow when you can stack shields, cloak away, or insta heal/ jab your way through.

Or how about increasing the damage and bleed time on cleave/brawler? Give 2h a good aoe.

Stamina whip is ***.

blur

laced wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Wrecking blow does not empower itself btw guys, so it's not constantly buffing itself.

You can land an ambush/suprise attsck/ambush in the time it takes to land one wrecking blow.

Jabs isn't really a contender in pvp as 2 out of 4 hits miss more than anything.

It's very easy to counter, just run through the other player again and gain and they'll never land a single hit

getting so tired of people saying this ***. any wb spammer worth their fucknig salt snares you first, either with stampede, low slash, dk ability, bombard etc you're not gonna run through them, you're gonna get smashed in the face for 10k damage and fall on your ass. or you're gonna block it, take 5k damage and lose more stamina than it took him to do it and the next hit is already on the way.

you could dodge it, costs more stamina for you. he'll be right back on you with stampede and charging the next 1. you'll be out of stam soon and you will die.

you can snare break with shuffle or manouvers! again, heavy stamina abilities will leave you drained and dead very quickly.

Then the complaint should be that the 2 handed tree is lacking another damaging ability aside from critical rush and wrecking blow. executioner is just terrible unless they have really low health, and brawler is so weak it is ridiculous.

Executioner is friggin amazing.
Threads like these though? Terrible. Like the rest of the drivel on these forums. It's like a constant round robin of whining about the same stuff yet I have not seen anything which didn't have a way to be countered. Other than poor game coding and cyro lag....

Jade1986

blur wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Wrecking blow does not empower itself btw guys, so it's not constantly buffing itself.

You can land an ambush/suprise attsck/ambush in the time it takes to land one wrecking blow.

Jabs isn't really a contender in pvp as 2 out of 4 hits miss more than anything.

It's very easy to counter, just run through the other player again and gain and they'll never land a single hit

getting so tired of people saying this ***. any wb spammer worth their fucknig salt snares you first, either with stampede, low slash, dk ability, bombard etc you're not gonna run through them, you're gonna get smashed in the face for 10k damage and fall on your ass. or you're gonna block it, take 5k damage and lose more stamina than it took him to do it and the next hit is already on the way.

you could dodge it, costs more stamina for you. he'll be right back on you with stampede and charging the next 1. you'll be out of stam soon and you will die.

you can snare break with shuffle or manouvers! again, heavy stamina abilities will leave you drained and dead very quickly.

Then the complaint should be that the 2 handed tree is lacking another damaging ability aside from critical rush and wrecking blow. executioner is just terrible unless they have really low health, and brawler is so weak it is ridiculous.

Executioner is friggin amazing.
Threads like these though? Terrible. Like the rest of the drivel on these forums. It's like a constant round robin of whining about the same stuff yet I have not seen anything which didn't have a way to be countered. Other than poor game coding and cyro lag....

Yeah, its great, IF they have low health, if not, it is awful. That leaves us with WB and critical rush, and in order to use crit rush you need to dodge roll away and then use it again, which can be taxing. If we lowered the damage of WB it would need to be instant instead of charged.

Toc de Malsvi

I think the great chasm of skill and and variety of builds and players often leads people into very biased opinions about classes and abilities. If you run a build that is weak to WB and you run into a strong player using WB it can seem completely overwhelming and ridiculous. However if you run a build that is particularly strong versus WB and you often run into poor players using WB you will often be lead to believe that WB is way overrated and people need to "l2p", while conversely claiming that the player using "X" ability that your build is weak to is the actual problem. Lag, bugs and poor communication often over accentuates these problems.

The nature of this game and the choices therein will leave you weak and vulnerable to certain builds while making you strong and dominate against others. For each patch certain class/weapon builds are always going to be higher than others and balancing is always needed to an extent. Currently CC can be very buggy and with the reduction to damage in Cyrodil creating a need for strong hitting individual spells plus CC this has led to a surge of WB/CF spamming. CP's and Gear often mean that different players are literally playing and balancing on a completely different level/system.

Personally I don't like that High damage and CC type effects are tied to the same ability, however that doesn't make them unbalanced per se. Depending on the class I'm playing I am much more or less vulnerable to these effects. My DK destroy's Sorc's who try to CF me while getting romped at times by WB spammers. My NB has no problem with 95% of the WB spammers he encounter's while struggling with shield stacking Sorcs. Whether or not they change WB or Nerf it or just fix CC bugs, as always some balancing is needed, with so many variables you will never have a perfect system, there will always be builds that are somewhat if not entirely OP and there will always be bugs.

Asmael

What's wrong with WB? It's buggy as hell:
- Much, MUCH higher range than its tooltip once it has started channeling (12+ meters)
- Ignores block at times
- Ignores dodge roll (hence why you dodge roll through the WB user)
- Has basically double the damage of Ransack, and also double the cost, when the cost should be higher (because more damage in less time should make the skill cost more), like 15 to 20% increased cost

That said, once they fix the bugs (soon™), it'll become balanced again.

Hexys

When you face a WB spammer try this: rotate around the player, so that everytime the animation can't finish because you're behind him.

Just keep it going untill they realise... XD

blur

laced wrote: »

blur wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Wrecking blow does not empower itself btw guys, so it's not constantly buffing itself.

You can land an ambush/suprise attsck/ambush in the time it takes to land one wrecking blow.

Jabs isn't really a contender in pvp as 2 out of 4 hits miss more than anything.

It's very easy to counter, just run through the other player again and gain and they'll never land a single hit

getting so tired of people saying this ***. any wb spammer worth their fucknig salt snares you first, either with stampede, low slash, dk ability, bombard etc you're not gonna run through them, you're gonna get smashed in the face for 10k damage and fall on your ass. or you're gonna block it, take 5k damage and lose more stamina than it took him to do it and the next hit is already on the way.

you could dodge it, costs more stamina for you. he'll be right back on you with stampede and charging the next 1. you'll be out of stam soon and you will die.

you can snare break with shuffle or manouvers! again, heavy stamina abilities will leave you drained and dead very quickly.

Then the complaint should be that the 2 handed tree is lacking another damaging ability aside from critical rush and wrecking blow. executioner is just terrible unless they have really low health, and brawler is so weak it is ridiculous.

Executioner is friggin amazing.
Threads like these though? Terrible. Like the rest of the drivel on these forums. It's like a constant round robin of whining about the same stuff yet I have not seen anything which didn't have a way to be countered. Other than poor game coding and cyro lag....

Yeah, its great, IF they have low health, if not, it is awful. That leaves us with WB and critical rush, and in order to use crit rush you need to dodge roll away and then use it again, which can be taxing. If we lowered the damage of WB it would need to be instant instead of charged.

I partly agree with this statement.
For starters how you are able to use your Crit Rush is going to be determined on what class you are playing. For example a Stam Sorc can set up their CR much differently than other classes due to Streak. That said, I don't have to dodge roll away to get a good CR in, moreover I use Boundless Storm every 6-7 seconds with 100% uptime on Major Expedition (unless I get CC'd).

I agree with you about removing the CD if they nerf the damage. However I don't agree with people that ability needs to be changed. It's fine the way it is, (other than the bugs which apply to most skills) and I rarely get hit by it. When I do get hit by WB it's almost always my fault. It's easy to see, easy to avoid. The skill is fine.

Regarding Executioner, that extra 18% is absolutely amazing and (last I knew) stacks with Rally. I am a Stam Sorc and I have no other "execute" abilities worth using other than Steel Tornado (which is kind of crappy for single target). When you get an 11k Executioner on someone it's really nice

DurzoBlint13

I get hit with spam crystal frags MUCH more often than I even see someone using WB. Are all of the people complaining about WB just magica sorcs? They seem to be the only ones that can not avoid the 2 second telegraphed wind up that announces a WB is coming. I have even seen many many more Steel Tornado spammers than I have WB spammers- just look at the EB "Sklelton Crew" running around Skull of Corruption. Every single death I have to them is just 5 different names spamming Steel Tornado

olivaresdonjuan

Sorry but If you get hit a wb you are a noob. I'm a slow dk I can move out of the way easily and you can easily tell when someone is going to hit you. Yes run towards the enemy or roll, blocking doesn't always work trying to back up will not help you. Now if you are being jumped by a group of wb spammers, that's different. I agree with the frags and tornadoes though, don't nerf them just buff up the healing class and tank class.

catalyst10e

I wouldnt say WB is easily seen, between lag and what appears to be using it from stealth, that first hit isnt something you see coming every time. Also, if you're running towards them in order to break the annimation, you better gauge that distance right, or you'll be running to your own demise. That being said, I will say, as a sorc, they honestly do give us plenty of ways to handle WB spammers, my personal favorite is Restraining Prison, which could also be followed up with Daedric mines. Combine that with the knock down effects of frag and Destructive Reach you can keep them at bay just fine. Also, as suggested, streak thru them, anything to gain that distance.

aLi3nZ

They should do the same thing to wrecking blow as to what they did to streak. Make it cost 50% more if casted within 4 seconds and make it stack.

Witar

This will ruin pvp for stam dks\templars. We are already pretty much inferior to mighty shining sorcs with their inpenetrable shields and nbs with their bugged ambush spam and infinite invisibility. Learn to cope, dude.

Hexys

TayDibiase wrote: »

Seeing how spamming wrecking blow is the new flavor of the month and its a cheap tactic when used against magicka builds, i have a proposal. How about making wb cost a set percentage of "available" stamina. For example if it costs 30% of available stamina, the 2nd and 3rd time would cost so much you wouldn't see 5 wbs in a death recap, and a magicka build would have a better chance against it. I've used immovable brute against the 1st hit, blocked 2 hits and have been pretty much defenseless against the next 5 wb spams. This must be addressed.

Increase the cost of every skill if it's recasted without another ability or within 4 seconds.
Stop the noobs, make them (think) to learn a rotation!

BuggeX

But but but hexys, how would someone be able to spam stealtornado?

but w/e, Wb is just fine as it is, they should just start to fix CC immunity or unblockable skills for some reason