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Mercenary Motif and Laurels

ZOS_MSchroeder
ZOS_MSchroeder
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There’s been a lot of discussion about the Mercenary motif since it appeared on the PTS yesterday, and we’d like to clear up some misconceptions and answer some questions.

First, we’ve seen your concerns about the time and effort it’s going to take to obtain all the chapters of the motif. We’re aware that some of you feel that the other recently-released motifs are too grueling to get, so we wanted Mercenary to be more easily obtained. Bronze chests will drop a chapter 40% of the time; Silver chests, 50% of the time; Gold chests, 60% of the time.

We’ve also seen some confusion when we say that the Laurels (the style item required to craft a piece of gear in the Mercenary style) are Bind on Pickup. To be clear, when we say ‘Bind on Pickup’, we mean it binds to your account, not your character. This means that any of your characters can earn a Laurel, bank it, and let any of your other characters use it.

Finally, we’ve seen lots of talk about how the Laurels will only drop for characters who know at least one chapter of the style. One thing we didn’t mention in the patch notes, however, is that this is not a simple 0%-100% scale – while knowing zero chapters of the style does mean you won’t ever see a Laurel, having just one chapter means that final bosses from Veteran Dungeon will have a 50% chance to drop a Laurel for you. From there, it scales up linearly to 100% (approx. +4% per chapter). Note that the drop rate of Laurels from final bosses in Normal Dungeons Laurel is always 1/4th of their Veteran counterparts.

If you’re concerned that you now have to get your crafting character suited up and ready for dungeons, consider this: With just one chapter under your belt – likely obtained after only a day’s worth of Pledges – your most Undaunted character will be getting a Laurel about every other run through a Veteran Dungeon.
Michael Schroeder
Senior Systems Designer - The Elder Scrolls Online
Staff Post
  • Teiji
    Teiji
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    Really interesting and appreciated to see an official response to feedback so directly like this.

    With regards to cosmetics I'm only enthusiastic about Dremora polymorphs so I'm extremely biased as the cosmetic items I want are vastly easier to obtain; yes even Tel Var stone polymorphs which I believe should be increased in droprate as this is supposed to be a casual friendly game - reducing TV stone costs on 6,000 boxes seems like a step in the right direction if the PTS changes make it to live.

    That said, I want to keep this post focussed on cosmetics in the context of creating anxiety through being difficult to obtain; so please, don't forget about Imperial City cosmetics.

    Specific paragraph for context; all of your consumers, customers, fans and Zenimax Online enthusiasts would greatly appreciate information.

    MSchroeder wrote: »
    Veteran Dungeon will have a 50% chance to drop a Laurel for you. From there, it scales up linearly to 100% (approx. +4% per chapter).

    This is extremely helpful information! I'm adamant that this sort of information and similar information [it doesn't have to be the same, just give us something] should be easily obtained.

    For example; which trophy vault drops which Xivkyn motif? Only the final boss of Veteran Dungeons may drop 'Monster Masks' this was listed in patch notes months and months ago but can't be found in-game? And so on and so forth.

    Maybe even simply adding specific information, such as drop percentages to 'Promo / Information' pages related directly to the DLC, this way you don't have to spend time and money on coding and design as you're simply adding text to already existing resources, allowing fansites to act as unofficial data sources while the community has the power to provide an official source for citations.

    The Imperial City Guide: The Basics

    Search for Xivkyn motif Chapters to craft the new Xivkyn style armor and weapons.
    This is a bullet-point but could provide more information by saying which Xivkyn motif Chapters drop from which vault for example.
    Edited by Teiji on October 20, 2015 8:07PM
    "Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    Thank you for clarifying the drop rates; my assumption was indeed a linear scaling start from 0%. Good to know I won't have to game the system to be able to get laurel to drop to use for my lowbie master crafters, or grudgingly level them up to VR1. Looks like learning a duplicate motif page on my main character will indeed suffice to get some laurel to drop. I will update my thread on this issue. Thread updated.
    Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on October 20, 2015 8:08PM
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  • Elder_III
    Elder_III
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    Thank you for the clarification and the details (we love getting specifics on #s from you :D ).
    Semi retired from the trading aspects of the game.
  • Teiji
    Teiji
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    Double post oops.
    Edited by Teiji on October 20, 2015 8:07PM
    "Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    European megaserver Fallout 4

    Loyalist of Boethiah, heroism enthusiast, exposer of secrets, bless'ed of noxiphilic sanguivoria.

    Nerf one grind, two more take its place; hail Gryndra!


    I am a dank memer and satire enthusiast
  • Elder_III
    Elder_III
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    Elder_III wrote: »
    Thank you for the clarification and the details (we love getting specifics on #s from you :D ).

    I'm unable to edit posts right now nor can I click "Insightful, Agree, or Awesome"... it says I need to install java, does anyone else have this issue today?
    Semi retired from the trading aspects of the game.
  • Slurg
    Slurg
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    Specific details are always appreciated and I hope in the future you will provide more details as new features are announced.

    I think this will help people who want the flexibility to complete dungeons with a non-crating main or with multiple characters feel that they can do that without missing out on being able to craft in this new style. Though suiting up crafting alts to take on the big bosses could be fun too, it's always good to feel that we have a reasonable choice in which character we play and how we play them.
    Clan Slurg, PC/NA - loyal to all factions! Just not at the same time.
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  • Preyfar
    Preyfar
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    This is definitely good news. I've been really bummed, as I've gone through over 30+ gold keys without a single shoulder. So I have one question as far as that goes: is the motif page IN ADDITION to a chance to get a shoulder? Or is the motif drop in competition with shoulders? Because I've gotten seriously discouraged running constant dungeons without a single shoulder drop through all those keys.
  • tengri
    tengri
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    With this high Laurel drop rate chance "wasting" just one motif per char is acceptable. Sure is.

    However... with the drop rate being so "generously" starting at 50% for one motif - then why implement this restriction in the first place? Makes no sense at all.
    Dont get me wrong... I am not complaining here, just really not understanding the whole motivation behind all this.
  • lonewolf26
    lonewolf26
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    I should echo that the fact that the laurels are not tradable makes crafting these styles for others a pain. Instead of offering to make equipment with their style items, I would instead need to maintain a stock of style items to sell.

    If the intent was to avoid a money to gold exchange in the game when this goes to the crown store, I don't think this accomplished that goal. I would consider charging gold for the service of crafting this style to offset the effort that went into the gathering of the materials farmed.

    Why not make the style items tradable between players?
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  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    Rosveen wrote: »
    Thank you. This is how new features should always be explained. Everything's clear now. However, it's still unacceptable to make a style stone BoP. Prolific crafters should be able to buy laurel from other players if they don't have time to run dungeons all day long or don't have enough skillpoints to be competent adventurers. Similarly, non-crafters should be able to supply crafters with materials when they order an item in Mercenary style. Neither is possible if laurels are bound.
    I agree. Binding Laurels is unnecessary and will have a negative impact on the economy. It's a common practice for people to supply their crafters with the required items for the gear they want, and they won't be able to do that if they remain BoP.
    UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
    WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    Teiji wrote: »
    This is extremely helpful information! I'm adamant that this sort of information and similar information [it doesn't have to be the same, just give us something] should be easily obtained.

    Agree with this; and also that making the style mats account bound with no way to trade seems foolish. To begin with, people who don't craft but run Pledges a lot will end up with stacks of the things and nothing to use them on. If you've been grinding for a particular Helm and not getting it, being able to sell the new style mats might at least offset some of the frustration for some people. And if you DO craft and don't run Pledges often, now you need to take a non-trivial amount of time to find a group of random strangers even BEFORE you take the time to run the dungeon itself.
    Teiji wrote: »
    For example; which trophy vault drops which Xivkyn motif? Only the final boss of Veteran Dungeons may drop 'Monster Masks' this was listed in patch notes months and months ago but can't be found in-game? And so on and so forth.

    You might have already seen this, but we're compiling a list for the Xivkyn Motif here.
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    A useful explanation for how RNG works
  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    Seems reasonable.
  • Ashtaris
    Ashtaris
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    I think we all know the reason Laurels are bound is because they will eventually be offered on the Crown store, just like Malachite. Normally I'm OK with this, but the difference here is that the Malachite shards can be sold or traded, whereas there is no such mechanism in place for the Laurels. In that case, the only way to get the Mercenary gear is to craft it yourself, or buy sets from a crafter, which I'm sure will be extremely expensive to begin with.
  • SorataArisugawa
    SorataArisugawa
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    Ashtaris wrote: »
    I think we all know the reason Laurels are bound is because they will eventually be offered on the Crown store, just like Malachite. Normally I'm OK with this, but the difference here is that the Malachite shards can be sold or traded, whereas there is no such mechanism in place for the Laurels. In that case, the only way to get the Mercenary gear is to craft it yourself, or buy sets from a crafter, which I'm sure will be extremely expensive to begin with.

    @Ashtaris

    That is not the only way! You can buy the laurels from the crafter you let the armor build. That is very easy and I think it won't be expensive after the first 2 weeks. You get such a laurel very often soon. Because with the high dropchance of the chapters and the high chance of the drops of the recipe. If you want to let you craft a new style item at the first day, it will always be very expensive...
    Edited by SorataArisugawa on October 21, 2015 2:59PM
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  • Xabien
    Xabien
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    I'd prefer they were distributed the same way previous rare motifs were - you picked up the book. Done.

    Are they now split into pieces to make the gathering of them more challenging to in turn encourage a far easier purchase of the whole motif from the crown store?
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    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = ????

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  • Rosveen
    Rosveen
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    Xabien wrote: »
    I'd prefer they were distributed the same way previous rare motifs were - you picked up the book. Done.

    Are they now split into pieces to make the gathering of them more challenging to in turn encourage a far easier purchase of the whole motif from the crown store?
    Yes - but it's fine as long as chapters drop with a reasonable frequency. Look at the in-game price of Dwemer. Chapter division isn't a problem in itself. Mercenary appears to be easy enough to acquire without tearing your hair out in frustration. Glass, on the other hand... Let's not repeat that.
  • Xabien
    Xabien
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    Are they now split into pieces to make the gathering of them more challenging to in turn encourage a far easier purchase of the whole motif from the crown store?[/quote]
    Yes - but it's fine as long as chapters drop with a reasonable frequency. Look at the in-game price of Dwemer. Chapter division isn't a problem in itself. Mercenary appears to be easy enough to acquire without tearing your hair out in frustration. Glass, on the other hand... Let's not repeat that.[/quote]

    It's the piecemeal way in which they make you acquire it though. Or of course you can buy the whole thing in one go in the crown store *wink wink*. It really whiffs of cash-grabbing to me.
    ∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
    "Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
    "moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
    "MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
    "MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
    "MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
    "MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
    "MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
    "MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
    "MOOOAAARRR!!!" = ????

    PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
  • Casdha
    Casdha
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    Sorry but unless Laurels are dropped by Delve bosses (Not group dungeons) and they are not able to be sold in guild stores, Then I will have no way to obtain them. Thanks for clarifying other players concerns but this clarification does not change anything for me.

    I will say (ask) this, it has been so long since I've tried an Undaunted pledge, They are all still done in Group dungeons, right? They haven't changed that, or am I just making an incorrect assumption?

    Heck dropping them in PvP Delves would be acceptable for my concerns if they can't be bought or sold.

    Edit: I should note that the only way I will pick my sub back up is that all this BoP for earned items is done away with. The only things that should be BoP are items bought with crowns.
    Edited by Casdha on October 22, 2015 6:07AM
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  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
    Community Ambassador
    Casdha wrote: »
    I will say (ask) this, it has been so long since I've tried an Undaunted pledge, They are all still done in Group dungeons, right? They haven't changed that, or am I just making an incorrect assumption?
    That is correct. Undaunted pledges are only in the Group Dungeons. It therefore makes sense that Laurels only come from Group Dungeons; the Mercenary set is, after all, the Undaunted set. It would be strange if you could source the Undaunted set from somewhere other than Undaunted content. Since the source is pretty limited though, I really don't think BoP is necessary.
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  • Ayantir
    Ayantir
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    Numbers given are very generous.

    Orsinium will pop in 10 days and lot of folks will have 10 gold keys and 10 silver ones in order to be the first to sell them at prohibited prices improve their crafting book at day 1.

    Thank you
    Obsessive Compulsive Elder Scrolls addons Coder
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  • Anhedonie
    Anhedonie
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    I'm sorry to put it this way, but your drop chances are always wrong in practice.
    Not even going to waste time on this.
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  • Casdha
    Casdha
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    Enodoc wrote: »
    Casdha wrote: »
    I will say (ask) this, it has been so long since I've tried an Undaunted pledge, They are all still done in Group dungeons, right? They haven't changed that, or am I just making an incorrect assumption?
    That is correct. Undaunted pledges are only in the Group Dungeons. It therefore makes sense that Laurels only come from Group Dungeons; the Mercenary set is, after all, the Undaunted set. It would be strange if you could source the Undaunted set from somewhere other than Undaunted content. Since the source is pretty limited though, I really don't think BoP is necessary.

    Thanks for that answer, and I agree that it makes sense how and where things are originating from, but in game economy has always been a way around doing things you don't want to do. BoP for earned items (mats or equipment) is nothing more than saying its our way or the highway. What they don't seem to realize is the Highway only leads out of town.
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  • GuyNamedSean
    GuyNamedSean
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    While I don't quite mind this system, it really is an obvious move to corral us toward the Crown Store.

    I really would prefer a system like Malachite Shards and Malachite. We could get Laurel Shards (or something like that) in the range of 5-10 per Veteran Dungeon (equating to a 50%-100% chance of a Laurel) and they be unbound and then refine them into the now bound Laurel. It wouldn't change their drop rate at all, but it would provide an in-game market for them while maintaining the boundedness of the Crown Store material.

    But we all know it's just a money grab ploy.
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