Discouraging multiple characters 101

daemonios

I've just read the patch notes for the 2.2.2 update on PTS and I must say I'm baffled at the choices made for the Mercenary crafting style.

So, you get the style chapters (uff, at least there's no fragments) from Undaunted chests. And the style stones from the last bosses in veteran dungeons. But ONLY if the character knows at least ONE of the chapters in the Mercenary style, and the chance increases to 100% for characters that have learned the whole style.

Now, I have 1 crafter who's maxed in all crafts and has all traits researched. But I have 3 other characters that I actively play, for a total of 3 VR16 and 1 VR1 character who all do veteran content. If I'm to get a chance at the style stone, I'll have to learn the style on ALL of these characters, otherwise I'll be locked out of a reward that I would otherwise get for completing a veteran dungeon.

In what twisted mind does this make any sense?? Seriously @ZOS_GinaBruno who comes up with these things? As if it wasn't bad enough that you decided to disable the banking of monster collectibles, when nobody asked for it and it doesn't provide any benefits, so that if you're still trying to get them all you'd be well advised to only play one character (more on that here)?

Please don't drink and code. Stop and think before you do these things. Or at least enlighten us on how this is supposed to improve the gameplay experience, because from where I'm standing, I simply cannot see it.

SirDopey

Just L2P with your crafter, simples...

dodgehopper_ESO

I really wish that style memorization were account unlocked as well, purely because of the annoyance it causes. I've had to change my tactics as well on how I'm using crafters. Where before I had a Wood master, a Cloth master, and a blacksmith master, I'm finding I'm splitting the roles up differently now. I currently have the item creator, the upgrader, and the breakdown guy. On the matter of styles, it would also be nice if we could change the styles of more gear after the fact (much like the Imperial style works) including gear that is locked to a style. While I think the Undaunted monster-heads are pretty cool, I also don't want that style for all of my characters. Appearance should be a cosmetic choice, not a stat choice. My main complaint about the whole undaunted system as a whole is that it forces us to wear these armors that really run cross to style. If I want to wear my legionnaire armor for instance, it means I can't wear a 'monster head'. I think this is what is fuelling the costumes in the Crown store, but the problem with Crown store costumes is that we the player have no capacity to customize them. This begs the question 'Why do we even have the ability to customize, if it means we're going to hamstring our character'? I have no answer for why this is so. I don't really see how it benefits ZoS financially. My main character is meant to be a legionnaire, but I haven't purchased the new Imperial Legion styles. I didn't purchase it because I don't have the points, but because they've only given me 3 options, none of which look like my character. If they gave us a means to customize our costumes, MAYBE they'd get more sales on these costumes they're selling.

daemonios

SirDopey wrote: »

Just L2P with your crafter, simples...

You're just a troll, but I'll bite. My main crafter is my main character, is VR16 and does all the content in the game. LN2A (learn not to assume).

My point is, these choices discourage people from playing multiple characters. If I have limited time, why would I do veteran dungeons on my other characters who don't know the style and won't get the style material rather than with the same character, over and over again?

UrQuan

Hmm, this won't be that bad for me, as my main crafter is VR12 and I'm planning to start doing more Undaunted stuff with him anyway (for the last few months I've mostly been doing Undaunted stuff on my VR16), but I agree that this is a poor design decision for all of the reasons that you list.

Edit: I should mention that I'm perfectly fine with the game mechanic of getting chapters from Undaunted chests. I like that idea. It's just the mechanism for getting the style stones that I have a problem with.

Scyantific

Obviously it's a ploy to get people to rush the style once it hits the Crown store.

But here's the kicker: the style doesn't even look that great, and the helmet looks like crap. If it takes all 14 to get a 100% drop rate then I'll probably just learn 7 of the dumb chapters for a 50/50 chance at the Laurel on each of my v16 toons.

The only way they could make this worse would be by making the Laurel "Backpack Bind on Pickup."

nimander99

Styles and traits should be account wide achievements and with the current redonkulous grind this is a must... but it wont happen because reasons.

nimander99

Scyantific wrote: »

...the Laurel Backpack Bind on Pickup.

Laurel Backpack?

Xeven

I don't understand why anyone thinks having a separate alchemist, clothier, blacksmith, woodworker etc is a good idea. "A creator, an upgrader, and a breakdown guy" really? It makes absolutely no sense. Constantly switching characters and jacking with your bank. You're just making everything more tedious, and yeah, you have to deal with motifs too. I've capped every craft on my main character with basically every passive, skill and morph in the game unlocked. There are more than enough skill points. There is absolutely no good reason to do it any other way.

Korah_Eaglecry

Its all about driving you to the Crown Store.

Im just waiting for style mats to start showing up in the Store.

Asherons_Call

Just wait until all the rich folk get theirs. Like every MMO ever made if you have patience you can get a good deal on anything. You just have to be content with not having the most uber leet hot off the shelves item at any given time. It's not about the rat race for me

daemonios

Xeven wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone thinks having a separate alchemist, clothier, blacksmith, woodworker etc is a good idea. "A creator, an upgrader, and a breakdown guy" really? It makes absolutely no sense. Constantly switching characters and jacking with your bank. You're just making everything more tedious, and yeah, you have to deal with motifs too. I've capped every craft on my main character with basically every passive, skill and morph in the game unlocked. There are more than enough skill points. There is absolutely no good reason to do it any other way.

When I started playing I had very few spare skill points. Bag space was even more scarce. So I made 1 clothier/enchanter, 1 woodworker/alchemist, 1 blacksmith and 1 provisioner. That way I could level their crafting skills and still play with them, and I could keep the crafting materials in their respective bags.

The fact that you don't agree with that doesn't make the choice somehow invalid. And it still doesn't explain why ZOS think it's a good idea for any character to be able to loot some style materials, but only characters who are both skilled crafters AND skilled adventurers may loot laurel.

a.skelton92

Xeven wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone thinks having a separate alchemist, clothier, blacksmith, woodworker etc is a good idea. "A creator, an upgrader, and a breakdown guy" really? It makes absolutely no sense. Constantly switching characters and jacking with your bank. You're just making everything more tedious, and yeah, you have to deal with motifs too. I've capped every craft on my main character with basically every passive, skill and morph in the game unlocked. There are more than enough skill points. There is absolutely no good reason to do it any other way.

"Gamers" like to think they are clever.

UrQuan

Asherons_Call wrote: »

Just wait until all the rich folk get theirs. Like every MMO ever made if you have patience you can get a good deal on anything. You just have to be content with not having the most uber leet hot off the shelves item at any given time. It's not about the rat race for me

Um, except that the style mats are bind on pickup, so you won't be able to buy them from anyone... Best you'll be able to do is buy crafted items from crafters. Actually, now that I think about it, this could be a nice little earner for those master crafters who also leveled their crafter to high vet levels.

UrQuan

Xeven wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone thinks having a separate alchemist, clothier, blacksmith, woodworker etc is a good idea. "A creator, an upgrader, and a breakdown guy" really? It makes absolutely no sense. Constantly switching characters and jacking with your bank. You're just making everything more tedious, and yeah, you have to deal with motifs too. I've capped every craft on my main character with basically every passive, skill and morph in the game unlocked. There are more than enough skill points. There is absolutely no good reason to do it any other way.

I started off doing all of my crafting on my main, and boy did it ever make leveling a lot harder. I was constantly starved for skill points. Even now at VR12 (I know, he's not my highest level character, and he's not the character I play most often, but I still consider him to be my main) I find he's never got any spare skill points - and I never even got into alchemy with him, one of my other characters is my alchemist (and another one is my provisioner, but I've got maxed out provisioning on my main as well - he just doesn't know all of the recipes like my provisioner does).

SirDopey

Its not that hard to get your clothing, blacksmithing and woodworking to 50 if need be, keep in mind the nodes in the DLC will be linked to your character's relevant crafting experience so across the board people are going to have to either L2P their crafters or unlock the passives on their non - crafters.

And if you do enough pledges you'll be able to get enough chapters to have a chance on any of your characters, its a massive ploy to get people interested in pledges again now that everyone has their helms.....

Dualrifle

UrQuan wrote: »

I started off doing all of my crafting on my main, and boy did it ever make leveling a lot harder. I was constantly starved for skill points. Even now at VR12 (I know, he's not my highest level character, and he's not the character I play most often, but I still consider him to be my main) I find he's never got any spare skill points - and I never even got into alchemy with him, one of my other characters is my alchemist (and another one is my provisioner, but I've got maxed out provisioning on my main as well - he just doesn't know all of the recipes like my provisioner does).

Strange, my character is still VR13 have every craft maxed except for enchanting. I still have like 30 skillpoint left to distribute, and i'm only at my 3rd area of my cadwell gold progression.

UrQuan

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I started off doing all of my crafting on my main, and boy did it ever make leveling a lot harder. I was constantly starved for skill points. Even now at VR12 (I know, he's not my highest level character, and he's not the character I play most often, but I still consider him to be my main) I find he's never got any spare skill points - and I never even got into alchemy with him, one of my other characters is my alchemist (and another one is my provisioner, but I've got maxed out provisioning on my main as well - he just doesn't know all of the recipes like my provisioner does).

Strange, my character is still VR13 have every craft maxed except for enchanting. I still have like 30 skillpoint left to distribute, and i'm only at my 3rd area of my cadwell gold progression.

I'm also only at my 3rd Cadwell's Gold zone on the character I'm talking about. Have you done much PVP or Craglorn? I've done little of the former, and none of the latter on this character, so if you got a bunch of skill points from there, that could be the difference. Also, I've now got multiple weapon skill lines maxed with all the passives and multiple skills, so I can swap between a DPS/offheal setup and a tank setup. That's relatively recent - there's no way I would have had enough skill points to do that at lower levels.

Dualrifle

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I started off doing all of my crafting on my main, and boy did it ever make leveling a lot harder. I was constantly starved for skill points. Even now at VR12 (I know, he's not my highest level character, and he's not the character I play most often, but I still consider him to be my main) I find he's never got any spare skill points - and I never even got into alchemy with him, one of my other characters is my alchemist (and another one is my provisioner, but I've got maxed out provisioning on my main as well - he just doesn't know all of the recipes like my provisioner does).

Strange, my character is still VR13 have every craft maxed except for enchanting. I still have like 30 skillpoint left to distribute, and i'm only at my 3rd area of my cadwell gold progression.

I'm also only at my 3rd Cadwell's Gold zone on the character I'm talking about. Have you done much PVP or Craglorn? I've done little of the former, and none of the latter on this character, so if you got a bunch of skill points from there, that could be the difference. Also, I've now got multiple weapon skill lines maxed with all the passives and multiple skills, so I can swap between a DPS/offheal setup and a tank setup. That's relatively recent - there's no way I would have had enough skill points to do that at lower levels.

I have all my combat line maxed except the alliance war thingy, will do pvp only when i reach v16. I haven't done much pvp or craglorn.

Oh and I just specialize in one armor type. So only 1 armor line with passive skill point spent on them.
Do you get all the skyshard?

UrQuan

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I started off doing all of my crafting on my main, and boy did it ever make leveling a lot harder. I was constantly starved for skill points. Even now at VR12 (I know, he's not my highest level character, and he's not the character I play most often, but I still consider him to be my main) I find he's never got any spare skill points - and I never even got into alchemy with him, one of my other characters is my alchemist (and another one is my provisioner, but I've got maxed out provisioning on my main as well - he just doesn't know all of the recipes like my provisioner does).

Strange, my character is still VR13 have every craft maxed except for enchanting. I still have like 30 skillpoint left to distribute, and i'm only at my 3rd area of my cadwell gold progression.

I'm also only at my 3rd Cadwell's Gold zone on the character I'm talking about. Have you done much PVP or Craglorn? I've done little of the former, and none of the latter on this character, so if you got a bunch of skill points from there, that could be the difference. Also, I've now got multiple weapon skill lines maxed with all the passives and multiple skills, so I can swap between a DPS/offheal setup and a tank setup. That's relatively recent - there's no way I would have had enough skill points to do that at lower levels.

I have all my combat line maxed except the alliance war thingy, will do pvp only when i reach v16. I haven't done much pvp or craglorn.

Oh and I just specialize in one armor type. So only 1 armor line with passive skill point spent on them.
Do you get all the skyshard?

I get every skyshard - I do absolutely everything in each zone before moving on to the next. I've got all (or, for medium, almost all) passives for all 3 of the armour lines though, because I use all 3 in different combinations depending on which setup I'm using at the time. Also, it occurs to me that I haven't yet done a single vet dungeon on that character, so there's a bunch of skill points I haven't got yet for him.

Dualrifle

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I started off doing all of my crafting on my main, and boy did it ever make leveling a lot harder. I was constantly starved for skill points. Even now at VR12 (I know, he's not my highest level character, and he's not the character I play most often, but I still consider him to be my main) I find he's never got any spare skill points - and I never even got into alchemy with him, one of my other characters is my alchemist (and another one is my provisioner, but I've got maxed out provisioning on my main as well - he just doesn't know all of the recipes like my provisioner does).

Strange, my character is still VR13 have every craft maxed except for enchanting. I still have like 30 skillpoint left to distribute, and i'm only at my 3rd area of my cadwell gold progression.

I'm also only at my 3rd Cadwell's Gold zone on the character I'm talking about. Have you done much PVP or Craglorn? I've done little of the former, and none of the latter on this character, so if you got a bunch of skill points from there, that could be the difference. Also, I've now got multiple weapon skill lines maxed with all the passives and multiple skills, so I can swap between a DPS/offheal setup and a tank setup. That's relatively recent - there's no way I would have had enough skill points to do that at lower levels.

I have all my combat line maxed except the alliance war thingy, will do pvp only when i reach v16. I haven't done much pvp or craglorn.

Oh and I just specialize in one armor type. So only 1 armor line with passive skill point spent on them.
Do you get all the skyshard?

I get every skyshard - I do absolutely everything in each zone before moving on to the next. I've got all (or, for medium, almost all) passives for all 3 of the armour lines though, because I use all 3 in different combinations depending on which setup I'm using at the time. Also, it occurs to me that I haven't yet done a single vet dungeon on that character, so there's a bunch of skill points I haven't got yet for him.

I guess that's probably why... For me i just focus on being dps until i finish cadwell gold and reach v16.
From there i will start to think more about armor mixing.
Just curious do you know how many skillpoints you have right now? I have around 195++

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

#firstworldproblems

Moonshadow66

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

#firstworldproblems

This is a game forum, what do you expect? Discussions about world hunger?

bareheiny

Xeven wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone thinks having a separate alchemist, clothier, blacksmith, woodworker etc is a good idea. "A creator, an upgrader, and a breakdown guy" really? It makes absolutely no sense. Constantly switching characters and jacking with your bank. You're just making everything more tedious, and yeah, you have to deal with motifs too. I've capped every craft on my main character with basically every passive, skill and morph in the game unlocked. There are more than enough skill points. There is absolutely no good reason to do it any other way.

I ditched my first main around character around l38...but she's by far the most advanced in all of the crafts, and has a fair amount of traits researched.

At some point my current main will be in a position to take over....but the trait research will take a fair chunk of time.

willymchilybily

Add it to the long list of game mechanisms shunning alts.

But to be fair you want to have a chance, as others have said do the pledges get the alt a chapter to have chance at drop, then you are fine. And leveling wood work is quick. especially if you deconstruct end game items with high level mats on a low skilled character.

PBpsy

Discouraging alts? Yes ZOS has a way of doing that. Lately they appear to be focusing on it .
Vet grinds Check
Extensive Gear grinds Check
AR skills Check
Motifs Check
This new crap Check

I really don't know how they didn't make CP grind Character only,

jelliedsoup

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

#firstworldproblems

These are not the droids you're looking for, move along.

UrQuan

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I started off doing all of my crafting on my main, and boy did it ever make leveling a lot harder. I was constantly starved for skill points. Even now at VR12 (I know, he's not my highest level character, and he's not the character I play most often, but I still consider him to be my main) I find he's never got any spare skill points - and I never even got into alchemy with him, one of my other characters is my alchemist (and another one is my provisioner, but I've got maxed out provisioning on my main as well - he just doesn't know all of the recipes like my provisioner does).

Strange, my character is still VR13 have every craft maxed except for enchanting. I still have like 30 skillpoint left to distribute, and i'm only at my 3rd area of my cadwell gold progression.

I'm also only at my 3rd Cadwell's Gold zone on the character I'm talking about. Have you done much PVP or Craglorn? I've done little of the former, and none of the latter on this character, so if you got a bunch of skill points from there, that could be the difference. Also, I've now got multiple weapon skill lines maxed with all the passives and multiple skills, so I can swap between a DPS/offheal setup and a tank setup. That's relatively recent - there's no way I would have had enough skill points to do that at lower levels.

I have all my combat line maxed except the alliance war thingy, will do pvp only when i reach v16. I haven't done much pvp or craglorn.

Oh and I just specialize in one armor type. So only 1 armor line with passive skill point spent on them.
Do you get all the skyshard?

I get every skyshard - I do absolutely everything in each zone before moving on to the next. I've got all (or, for medium, almost all) passives for all 3 of the armour lines though, because I use all 3 in different combinations depending on which setup I'm using at the time. Also, it occurs to me that I haven't yet done a single vet dungeon on that character, so there's a bunch of skill points I haven't got yet for him.

I guess that's probably why... For me i just focus on being dps until i finish cadwell gold and reach v16.
From there i will start to think more about armor mixing.
Just curious do you know how many skillpoints you have right now? I have around 195++

*goes to check*
I've got 242 skillpoints, 1 of which is unspent. 104 of those skill points are in crafting passives - and I don't even have every passive in all of the crafting skills. If I had every crafting skill passive it would cost 139 skill points.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

#firstworldproblems

These are not the droids you're looking for, move along.

ericprydz82ub17_ESO

daemonios wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Just L2P with your crafter, simples...

You're just a troll, but I'll bite. My main crafter is my main character, is VR16 and does all the content in the game. LN2A (learn not to assume).

My point is, these choices discourage people from playing multiple characters. If I have limited time, why would I do veteran dungeons on my other characters who don't know the style and won't get the style material rather than with the same character, over and over again?

If you have limited time to play then maybe you should focus more on your main character. People with more time to play will have more time to run the daily pledges on more than one character. Simple as that.

It is your free time so you need to learn how you want to manage it. It isn't the games fault others can invest more time than you into the game and accomplish more.

UltimaJoe777

There's this new invention: it's called a bank. Pretty sure you could easily deposit these items on a character capable of obtaining them for your crafter to learn and use. You could also learn just one chapter on the character earning them so you can get said materials to be used by your crafter.

On a side note not a bad incentive for running Group Instances.

Dualrifle

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I started off doing all of my crafting on my main, and boy did it ever make leveling a lot harder. I was constantly starved for skill points. Even now at VR12 (I know, he's not my highest level character, and he's not the character I play most often, but I still consider him to be my main) I find he's never got any spare skill points - and I never even got into alchemy with him, one of my other characters is my alchemist (and another one is my provisioner, but I've got maxed out provisioning on my main as well - he just doesn't know all of the recipes like my provisioner does).

Strange, my character is still VR13 have every craft maxed except for enchanting. I still have like 30 skillpoint left to distribute, and i'm only at my 3rd area of my cadwell gold progression.

I'm also only at my 3rd Cadwell's Gold zone on the character I'm talking about. Have you done much PVP or Craglorn? I've done little of the former, and none of the latter on this character, so if you got a bunch of skill points from there, that could be the difference. Also, I've now got multiple weapon skill lines maxed with all the passives and multiple skills, so I can swap between a DPS/offheal setup and a tank setup. That's relatively recent - there's no way I would have had enough skill points to do that at lower levels.

I have all my combat line maxed except the alliance war thingy, will do pvp only when i reach v16. I haven't done much pvp or craglorn.

Oh and I just specialize in one armor type. So only 1 armor line with passive skill point spent on them.
Do you get all the skyshard?

I get every skyshard - I do absolutely everything in each zone before moving on to the next. I've got all (or, for medium, almost all) passives for all 3 of the armour lines though, because I use all 3 in different combinations depending on which setup I'm using at the time. Also, it occurs to me that I haven't yet done a single vet dungeon on that character, so there's a bunch of skill points I haven't got yet for him.

I guess that's probably why... For me i just focus on being dps until i finish cadwell gold and reach v16.
From there i will start to think more about armor mixing.
Just curious do you know how many skillpoints you have right now? I have around 195++

*goes to check*
I've got 242 skillpoints, 1 of which is unspent. 104 of those skill points are in crafting passives - and I don't even have every passive in all of the crafting skills. If I had every crafting skill passive it would cost 139 skill points.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

#firstworldproblems

These are not the droids you're looking for, move along.

Whattt. You have 242 skill point but you still feel lacking? Something is wrong here...
I also do not put all point into all the passive, I don't put on those that highlight material nodes, and lately I dont think putting it on hireling is worth it.

Anyway it is probably because you leave too many options on what skill you use, lately I only put those that I use all the time.