Concern over CP Cap and Subscription

Armitas

Really the only reason to have a sub longterm in this game is for the + gold and xp. If you put a cap on CP, and you should, then half of the reason to sub will have been removed. I was planning on resubbing in December but I will be at 500 CP by then and I already have over 2mil gold so I have no reason to sub. That actually worries me because if your sole source of income is releasing content, then the majority of your resources will be directed toward content. This creates a rush to release new content regularly and leaves little resources for fixing bugs and balancing and developing classes. When we need a major change due to changes in the last update we have to wait until the next major update. In the case of the DK we have to wait for at least 2 update, maybe three before you guys are going to fix them. That is not right, we need subs as a secondary income source so you don't have to put all your resources into content.

I suggest you take your sub and split the bonus such that they can be purchased separately. Let us buy the bundle we want. For 2 dollars I might pay for 10% more gold. Thats 2 dollars a month more than you would ever get from me with the CP cap and the current model. You need to add more benefits as well without going p2w. All of it will technically be P2W by someone but there is a level a reason that goes on that allows for some of it to be permissible. I think the benefits we would receive out of not having a completely content driven system would out weight the minor and indirect benefits that subs provide.

Possible additions.
+10% chance on improving items (or whatever 1 modifier item equates to percent wise)
+10% chance to double the materials gathered.
+10% chance to yield gold improvement items when refining materials.

eliisra

I totally agree. But I doubt they considers this an actual problem, since ZoS believes all regular PC players have 93 CP

Will hit the 501 cap myself in a week or so, unless I stop logging in or something. Will just cancel sub and buy DLC's. I wont get anything out of the XP buff until they raise the cap. I have around 12 million coins, so more gold really? My crafters are maxed and with 9 traits unlocked.

Think this is a pretty common problem in all MMORPG's, how to keep old-timers motived to subscribe, since the bonuses always appeals more to new players.

Mickey_Ox

You can continue to earn CP though and thus have them to apply as soon as the cap is raised next as opposed to earning and applying them after the fact, no?

ADarklore

eliisra wrote: »

ZoS believes all regular PC players have 93 CP

It isn't that they believe it, they have access to the numbers which PROVE it, and this was PC Players that were ACTIVE in the previous 30-day period. Furthermore, consider that there are tens of thousands of PC players worldwide, even if 5000 players have over the cap, that is still an extremely small number when considering the total quantity. That is what AVERAGING is about, taking the highs and lows, and coming up with a number. Since the console release in June, is it a surprise that there'd be a LOT of new PC players as well? I'm sure that has contributed a lot to the average, but keep in mind that these are exactly the players that the CP cap is meant to benefit.

Armitas

I don't grind CP's at all, I only play maybe 26-28 hours a week and I have over 400. I would consider myself involuntarily casual and I'm already near cap even after taking a months break from the game. If most people have in the 90's then we must have lost a ton of of original players but I guess we gained a lot too so thats good.

eliisra

ADarklore wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

ZoS believes all regular PC players have 93 CP

It isn't that they believe it, they have access to the numbers which PROVE it, and this was PC Players that were ACTIVE in the previous 30-day period. Furthermore, consider that there are tens of thousands of PC players worldwide, even if 5000 players have over the cap, that is still an extremely small number when considering the total quantity. That is what AVERAGING is about, taking the highs and lows, and coming up with a number. Since the console release in June, is it a surprise that there'd be a LOT of new PC players as well? I'm sure that has contributed a lot to the average, but keep in mind that these are exactly the players that the CP cap is meant to benefit.

I know all of that. They already posted what the "average" was based on.

For sure new players brings down the average. But it also makes me think their earlier/original play base haven't been using their enlightenment. If you had a VR14 characters back in Mars, back when ESO was superscription based, you got 70 CP for free.

Now almost 6 months later the average is 93, according to ZoS. That's not the best review for Tamriel Unlimited. Tells me the old subscribing player base haven't been online much, let alone enjoying this marvellous CP grind.

Also why I'm positive to a CP cap. Dont know how many guys I know that went inactive because of CP disparty + grind.

Thymos

Armitas wrote: »

Really the only reason to have a sub longterm in this game is for the + gold and xp. If you put a cap on CP, and you should, then half of the reason to sub will have been removed.

I got to there.

This alone doesn't make up half of the reason to subscribe.

I subscribe for the 10% gold bonus, the reduced research times, and the 10% bonus to all XP gain. I will still be earning CXP for future champion points, when the cap is raised.

So I don't see how the CP cap removes half of the reason to subscribe.

Bear in mind, I've been here since beta, so I'm not just one of those new players.

Armitas

Thymos wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Really the only reason to have a sub longterm in this game is for the + gold and xp. If you put a cap on CP, and you should, then half of the reason to sub will have been removed.

I got to there.

This alone doesn't make up half of the reason to subscribe.

I subscribe for the 10% gold bonus, the reduced research times, and the 10% bonus to all XP gain. I will still be earning CXP for future champion points, when the cap is raised.

So I don't see how the CP cap removes half of the reason to subscribe.

Bear in mind, I've been here since beta, so I'm not just one of those new players.

Well the key phrase in that statement is "Longterm". Reduced research times are only valuable so long as you have things to research. I constructed that sentence with research times specifically in mind.

AlnilamE

Thymos wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Really the only reason to have a sub longterm in this game is for the + gold and xp. If you put a cap on CP, and you should, then half of the reason to sub will have been removed.

I got to there.

This alone doesn't make up half of the reason to subscribe.

I subscribe for the 10% gold bonus, the reduced research times, and the 10% bonus to all XP gain. I will still be earning CXP for future champion points, when the cap is raised.

So I don't see how the CP cap removes half of the reason to subscribe.

Bear in mind, I've been here since beta, so I'm not just one of those new players.

Well, as Armitas said, if you've already researched everything, then the reduction in research times doesn't help you.

I have to agree with them, to an extent. If the cap was just a cap, where you would keep earning CP at the normal rate and just not able to use it, that would be fine, but if they apply the 1.5x penalty, they are essentially taking away your 10% XP bonus and then some (you're essentially getting a 27% reduction in XP rather than a 10% increase).

So the idea that I would give ZOS money to take XP away from me is kind of nonsensical.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

i and another voiced your concerns as well. i don't see a lot of pay incentive with tthe proposed ... mechanics. if it takes 6 months to get 100ish points, the changes aren't going to help much. hell i got enough content still to get me through to the soft-cap post change. my wife is gonna probably be able to get the hard-cap, so i don't see a need to pay for anything for a long while. some high-CP players, laughed since they had been subbing for the CP exp, they have more than enough crowns to last them for a while.

Mickey_Ox wrote: »

You can continue to earn CP though and thus have them to apply as soon as the cap is raised next as opposed to earning and applying them after the fact, no?

yes and no. post 501, is like climbing mount everest wearing only a banana hammock/bikini.....

ADarklore wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

ZoS believes all regular PC players have 93 CP

It isn't that they believe it, they have access to the numbers which PROVE it, and this was PC Players that were ACTIVE in the previous 30-day period. Furthermore, consider that there are tens of thousands of PC players worldwide, even if 5000 players have over the cap, that is still an extremely small number when considering the total quantity. That is what AVERAGING is about, taking the highs and lows, and coming up with a number. Since the console release in June, is it a surprise that there'd be a LOT of new PC players as well? I'm sure that has contributed a lot to the average, but keep in mind that these are exactly the players that the CP cap is meant to benefit.

they also adjusted the soft-cap up after reviewing the data and finding that quite a few players (not sure what that equates to) were already near the soft-cap they said would work.

PBpsy

Armitas wrote: »

I don't grind CP's at all, I only play maybe 26-28 hours a week and I have over 400. I would consider myself involuntarily casual and I'm already near cap even after taking a months break from the game. If most people have in the 90's then we must have lost a ton of of original players but I guess we gained a lot too so thats good.

You do realize that 28 is not quite casual ? It is more like 3/4 of a normal 40h work week.

Mumyo

Armitas wrote: »

Really the only reason to have a sub longterm in this game is for the + gold and xp. If you put a cap on CP, and you should, then half of the reason to sub will have been removed. I was planning on resubbing in December but I will be at 500 CP by then and I already have over 2mil gold so I have no reason to sub. That actually worries me because if your sole source of income is releasing content, then the majority of your resources will be directed toward content. This creates a rush to release new content regularly and leaves little resources for fixing bugs and balancing and developing classes. When we need a major change due to changes in the last update we have to wait until the next major update. In the case of the DK we have to wait for at least 2 update, maybe three before you guys are going to fix them. That is not right, we need subs as a secondary income source so you don't have to put all your resources into content.

I suggest you take your sub and split the bonus such that they can be purchased separately. Let us buy the bundle we want. For 2 dollars I might pay for 10% more gold. Thats 2 dollars a month more than you would ever get from me with the CP cap and the current model. You need to add more benefits as well without going p2w. All of it will technically be P2W by someone but there is a level a reason that goes on that allows for some of it to be permissible. I think the benefits we would receive out of not having a completely content driven system would out weight the minor and indirect benefits that subs provide.

Possible additions.
+10% chance on improving items (or whatever 1 modifier item equates to percent wise)
+10% chance to double the materials gathered.
+10% chance to yield gold improvement items when refining materials.

The current CP system allready made many of the best players i know quit (PvP).
Since the greatest noob with 1k cp+ easily wins against people with real life.

But i see the point here, subbing actually doesnt make much sence except u dont have enough crown points for both dlc by now and as long as they keep up the speed they showed us by realising the new dlc very fast im sure that people might still sub. Also the Crown store should improve and it does allready.

Armitas

PBpsy wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

I don't grind CP's at all, I only play maybe 26-28 hours a week and I have over 400. I would consider myself involuntarily casual and I'm already near cap even after taking a months break from the game. If most people have in the 90's then we must have lost a ton of of original players but I guess we gained a lot too so thats good.

You do realize that 28 is not quite casual ? It is more like 3/4 of a normal 40h work week.

So what your saying is...I'm hardcore. I'll take it!

ekobmx

There is no way that the average is 93, in all 5 guilds i have there isnt a single casual player with less than 160.

I believe alot of people who bought exp scrolls and subbed for the extra 10% will cancel and more than likely quit.

The cap is far to low, sitting on 423 CP, 501 probably 2weeks after orsinium. I have not grinded, or used exp scrolls/pots at all.

byrom101b16_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

I don't grind CP's at all, I only play maybe 26-28 hours a week and I have over 400. I would consider myself involuntarily casual and I'm already near cap even after taking a months break from the game. If most people have in the 90's then we must have lost a ton of of original players but I guess we gained a lot too so thats good.

You consider yourself casual playing 28 hours a WEEK!!??

That's hilariously ironic...

myrrrorb14_ESO

I hated the idea of b2p when it came out. My entire guild quit over it. But I have embraced it since then.

No new content? Cool, stop subbing and continue playing the old stuff!

The bonuses involved with a sub were never that great imo. 10% gold / xp? meh. The bonus to research is nice though (if you still need that 8th and 9th trait).

BEZDNA

Alredy cansled my sub becous of CP cap, they need to offer me something realy viable to pay for it again

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO

Already canceled my sub. There is no reason to keep ESO gold now.

frank.bindb16_ESO

I think they don't care if you don't subscribe. Cause you have to pay for the dlcs, they will receive 35 Euro for 5.500 crown for the 2 dlcs. Others will pay 65 Euro/half year but have still 9.000 crowns for goodies they can buy. And I have heard there will be planned additional features in the future like a crafting material bag only available für subscribers. So cancel and buy the dlcs, maybe you have to come back later and you have paid the dlcs for nothing.

myrrrorb14_ESO

28hrs a week.. 4hrs a day on average everyday.

Not sure I would call it casual, but not really hardcore either. Seems just right to me!

Think I put in about 20ish. I kind of just wander around for half of it doing writs and gathering mats. Still manage to use all of my enlightenment plus a bit by Monday somehow.

Makes me wonder how the average numbers are so low, but I dont doubt the numbers. Just looking at the achievements on PS I can see how few people have.

Elsonso

eliisra wrote: »

Now almost 6 months later the average is 93, according to ZoS. That's not the best review for Tamriel Unlimited. Tells me the old subscribing player base haven't been online much, let alone enjoying this marvellous CP grind.

I am an "old subscribing player" that has been playing almost daily for over a year. I refused to accept the CP grind. I play as I feel like playing, and Champion Points arrive when I get them. I have not even attained half the average that they mentioned. I don't do Cadwell, I don't grind for levels, I don't grind for gear, and I don't grind for Champion Points. I probably average 10 hours per week in the game, mostly on Veteran Rank characters.

I am probably as atypical as they come, as far as how I play the game, but I cannot stand the treadmill and I don't chase the carrot.

Ashtaris

What ZOS needs to do is offer something more for their subscriptions than they are offering now. At one point, they mentioned on ESO Live they would be giving us Crafting Bags to hold all of our mats. I haven't seen anything along those lines so far. I already have four V14 or above characters, many of them top level crafters so I don't need the 10% Inspiration boost. I already have plenty of gold in the bank, so the 10% increase in gold found is nothing. Now with the CP cap, the !0% XP boost is worthless. So really, when you come down to it, there is really no reason to subscribe anymore.

Ezareth

Armitas wrote: »

Really the only reason to have a sub longterm in this game is for the + gold and xp. If you put a cap on CP, and you should, then half of the reason to sub will have been removed. I was planning on resubbing in December but I will be at 500 CP by then and I already have over 2mil gold so I have no reason to sub. That actually worries me because if your sole source of income is releasing content, then the majority of your resources will be directed toward content. This creates a rush to release new content regularly and leaves little resources for fixing bugs and balancing and developing classes. When we need a major change due to changes in the last update we have to wait until the next major update. In the case of the DK we have to wait for at least 2 update, maybe three before you guys are going to fix them. That is not right, we need subs as a secondary income source so you don't have to put all your resources into content.

I suggest you take your sub and split the bonus such that they can be purchased separately. Let us buy the bundle we want. For 2 dollars I might pay for 10% more gold. Thats 2 dollars a month more than you would ever get from me with the CP cap and the current model. You need to add more benefits as well without going p2w. All of it will technically be P2W by someone but there is a level a reason that goes on that allows for some of it to be permissible. I think the benefits we would receive out of not having a completely content driven system would out weight the minor and indirect benefits that subs provide.

Possible additions.
+10% chance on improving items (or whatever 1 modifier item equates to percent wise)
+10% chance to double the materials gathered.
+10% chance to yield gold improvement items when refining materials.

I've cancelled my subscription for this very reason as well. There is zero benefit to subscribing right now. I have 9K crowns in the bank, will be at CP cap at Osrinium release, and will have every trait researched in 30 days.

What they need to do is Scale the Experience gained from the sub by *exactly* the CP penalty you currently face if you're above the softcap or hardcap on CP.

If it costs you 1,000,000 experience for your next CP then your experience bonus should be 25% (10% * 2.5 (your current CP penalty))

kojou

My motivation for subscribing is the long term health of the game. I could care less about the bonuses and such. I feel like if I give them money for a subscription then they can keep the lights on and pay developers.

I enjoy playing this game. I want to see new content for it. I pay a subscription.

Now as to the OP... subscribed players having a better chance at gold mats from their hirelings would make me happy.

Ezareth

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

My motivation for subscribing is the long term health of the game. I could care less about the bonuses and such. I feel like if I give them money for a subscription then they can keep the lights on and pay developers.

I enjoy playing this game. I want to see new content for it. I pay a subscription.

Now as to the OP... subscribed players having a better chance at gold mats from their hirelings would make me happy.

That was my primary motivation for resubscribing as well. However, in the best interest of the game if they don't make the subscription worthwhile then many players who don't have that mindset will not subscribe and the game will be worse off. By unsubscribing I've made my voice heard and hopefully will add that to others to force ZoS to reevaluate their subscriber bonuses.

Dracane

ESO + needs improvements. This is an important source of earning money for Zenimax, I don't understand, why they make this bonus so underwhelming and don't just buff the hell out of it . Though even when I reach 501 CP, I will still keep on earning exp for CP. So why would 10% more exp be a waste at this point ? I still benefit from it, just don't instantly feel the impact. But later when they increase the cap.

kojou

Ezareth wrote: »

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

My motivation for subscribing is the long term health of the game. I could care less about the bonuses and such. I feel like if I give them money for a subscription then they can keep the lights on and pay developers.

I enjoy playing this game. I want to see new content for it. I pay a subscription.

Now as to the OP... subscribed players having a better chance at gold mats from their hirelings would make me happy.

That was my primary motivation for resubscribing as well. However, in the best interest of the game if they don't make the subscription worthwhile then many players who don't have that mindset will not subscribe and the game will be worse off. By unsubscribing I've made my voice heard and hopefully will add that to others to force ZoS to reevaluate their subscriber bonuses.

There will always be people looking for a free ride, or disgruntled because the developers didn't make a change that they wanted, didn't fix a bug fast enough etc. That's their choice. The problem is if they enjoy and play the game then their attitude will lead to the demise of something they enjoy.

I'm just hoping ZOS can keep new zones, trials, vet dungeons etc coming, because that what is really going to keep me motivated to subscribe more than any other carrots or incentives.

Elsonso

Dracane wrote: »

ESO + needs improvements. This is an important source of earning money for Zenimax, I don't understand, why they make this bonus so underwhelming and don't just buff the hell out of it . Though even when I reach 501 CP, I will still keep on earning exp for CP. So why would 10% more exp be a waste at this point ? I still benefit from it, just don't instantly feel the impact. But later when they increase the cap.

They do not need to buff the hell out of it if it is a popular purchase with players and it meets whatever revenue goal they have.

A lot of these canceled sub postings are written with the apparent assumption that most people are also not subscribing to ESO Plus. I am not certain where that assumption comes from, other than non-subscribers who think they are mainstream and average.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

a business should get paid for a quality product, not receive charitable donations on the "hopes" they will produce one (this is a relative perspective). if they fail to produce a "quality" product, why the hell would you continue to pay for it O_o. i mean really, people are canceling because there is no NEED to subscribe to a game, that has a cap on long term progression (experience in this case). in business theres value, and PERCEIVED value. the DLC costs 25 dollars to manufacture (value), but a player perceives it to be worth more/less (perceived value) based on their perspective of the over all result. with the hard-cap, the ones at/near it, see less value in a subscription, its just normal. those that need the experience, have a higher perceived value in the subscription.

its nothing personal, its just business...

Armitas

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

My motivation for subscribing is the long term health of the game. I could care less about the bonuses and such. I feel like if I give them money for a subscription then they can keep the lights on and pay developers.

I enjoy playing this game. I want to see new content for it. I pay a subscription.

Now as to the OP... subscribed players having a better chance at gold mats from their hirelings would make me happy.

I felt the same way a long time ago. I subbed for that very reason. Then 1.6 came and they abandoned us for over half year as every person I hit had 50% spell mitigation, then 1.7 hit and my class was further wrecked and they said they will just begin to do something about it in 2 updates. Begin mind you, not actually do something. It was at 1.6, when they abandoned us to finish console, that I came to the realization that I am just paying these guys to insult and ignore me, not develop the game. So I quit.

Without benefits I couldn't sub again until they begin to show some actual concern over things that are not just more content. If they begin to show action and responsibility over the internal quality of the game between DLCs then I would find it worth subbing again regardless of the benefits.

This is their current model of development as far as we are concerned.
Step 1. Come to beta and test out our bugs but leave your feedback at the door, because it's far too late for that.
Step 2. Enjoy your update, see you next update

Docmandu

eliisra wrote: »

I totally agree. But I doubt they considers this an actual problem, since ZoS believes all regular PC players have 93 CP

Will hit the 501 cap myself in a week or so, unless I stop logging in or something. Will just cancel sub and buy DLC's. I wont get anything out of the XP buff until they raise the cap. I have around 12 million coins, so more gold really? My crafters are maxed and with 9 traits unlocked.

Think this is a pretty common problem in all MMORPG's, how to keep old-timers motived to subscribe, since the bonuses always appeals more to new players.

Ah so you're the typical average ESO player.... riiiiight.