Race change when?

Dualrifle

Iluvrien wrote: »

Prizax wrote: »

lol to all of those saying NO, do you guys even read and/or listen to what the devs already said, it's coming who knows when but my bet is in before the next DLC after Orsinium.

Reading/listening to what they say and agreeing with it are two different things.

I'll give up standing against race change when it is in-game. Not before.

^ Like he/she said.

Devs also said Justice part 2 is coming... But where is it?

DaveMoeDee

Alucardo wrote: »

Race changing is a stupid idea and shouldn't be added in the first place. The End.

Changing passives for race when it cannot be changed is stupid.

DaveMoeDee

Dualrifle wrote: »

If they allow Race change, then Class change should be next. If you can somehow change from a Lizard to a Cat, you should definitely able to change your job.

I didn't follow Eso progression since the begining, But did the racial passive change so much from what it was? If not, then I find it strange that people demands race change, and it's not like if your are for example a Magicka Bosmer Sorc people decided to not include you in the party is it?

Edit: 1 more thing tho, don't forget that racial choice also helps in certain way, for example when leveling your selection of chosen skill. I don't think it's fair to people that painfully leveling their restoration staff, when argonian can level them like 15% faster. (although in the end it's probably doesn't matter that much)

Class change is actually quite different. Picking a class is picking 3 skill lines and a general style of play.

Picking a race is just 3 meaningful passives at most since the weapon level passive is useless in the long run. Changing race is just swapping out passives, a much smaller change than changing a class. Clearly the gameplay is based around classes, not race. People want to switch to races that compliment their class.

Dualrifle

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Class change is actually quite different. Picking a class is picking 3 skill lines and a general style of play.

Picking a race is just 3 meaningful passives at most since the weapon level passive is useless in the long run. Changing race is just swapping out passives, a much smaller change than changing a class. Clearly the gameplay is based around classes, not race. People want to switch to races that compliment their class.

I understand where you are coming from. And it's true in terms of "practical" race change seems like a more viable request.

But in the end, if ZOS will let people choose the "optimal" race for their class, what's wrong with people wanting to choose the "Optimal" class for their race? I mean class skill have changed over the course of the game. if Last time DK was the king of PVP and now it is sorc / NB time, what's wrong with people want to change their class to the more "mainstream" class? in a way if people say it is not fair that some racial have changed, guess what, so are classes skills, if you want to be fair, please be fair all the way. don't cherry pick where to be fair.

Race and class is like the Foundation of a character. If 1 is allowed to change, the other should be as well. It is basically what you choose when you "create" your character.

For me, the better choice is to not let people change race or class. But hey the world doesn't revolve around me. So let's see what the dev do. I just hope either they implement race+class change, or not at all... Or even if they do implement it, it better be twice the effort of getting master angler title with final piece of item quest have to be purchased from crown store, and with 1 time limit to change.

And actually simply letting people changing their race is very disrespectful and inconsiderate to those people that spend a lot of time rebuilding their character with different race.

TheShadowScout

The bottom line of the game is to make them money. Purchasable race change will make them money. Making money is what keeps them paying the server upkeep, and finances new content so they will keep on making money.
Thus I am not opposed to race changes being in the game, even though I would see no reason to change any of my characters races. Not the dunmer nightblade, not the argonian dragonknight, not the orc templar, not the nord sorceror... I'll keep playing them, thank you very much. (at least for now - if they ever add purchasable races, I might reconsider...) For me, races are about how I envision my character, not about getting the right passives.
I wouldn't mind a bit of rebalancing, maybe lessening the racial benefits to make them less of an issue, but... that's the developers choice.
As for all the "it would be unfair..." arguments - that would only be valid if it was offered for a too low cost. If people have to shell out 25 bucks worth of crowns to change their race... they might think twice and thrice about it. And then those who really can't bear playing their current character will pay and change, and those who just idly consider it will likely whine on the forums about how they deserve a free race change any time the powers that be fiddle with any racial passive, and life in tamriel will go on...

Dualrifle wrote: »

Or even if they do implement it, it better be twice the effort of getting master angler title with final piece of item quest have to be purchased from crown store...

Now that is an valid idea... and something I could get behind. Making some changes more effort then just "pay crowns", but requiring a lot of in-game working up to it... maaaybe not quite that much as twice the master angler thing, but... something more then just slipping an alchemist a handful of crowns...

DaveMoeDee

Dualrifle wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Class change is actually quite different. Picking a class is picking 3 skill lines and a general style of play.

Picking a race is just 3 meaningful passives at most since the weapon level passive is useless in the long run. Changing race is just swapping out passives, a much smaller change than changing a class. Clearly the gameplay is based around classes, not race. People want to switch to races that compliment their class.

I understand where you are coming from. And it's true in terms of "practical" race change seems like a more viable request.

But in the end, if ZOS will let people choose the "optimal" race for their class, what's wrong with people wanting to choose the "Optimal" class for their race? I mean class skill have changed over the course of the game. if Last time DK was the king of PVP and now it is sorc / NB time, what's wrong with people want to change their class to the more "mainstream" class? in a way if people say it is not fair that some racial have changed, guess what, so are classes skills, if you want to be fair, please be fair all the way. don't cherry pick where to be fair.

Race and class is like the Foundation of a character. If 1 is allowed to change, the other should be as well. It is basically what you choose when you "create" your character.

For me, the better choice is to not let people change race or class. But hey the world doesn't revolve around me. So let's see what the dev do. I just hope either they implement race+class change, or not at all... Or even if they do implement it, it better be twice the effort of getting master angler title with final piece of item quest have to be purchased from crown store, and with 1 time limit to change.

And actually simply letting people changing their race is very disrespectful and inconsiderate to those people that spend a lot of time rebuilding their character with different race.

While it is true there is some arbitrariness to what we allow people to change, race is clearly far less central to a build. I don't think that there is a sensible argument against this proposition apart from roleplaying. Classes are chosen to pick a style of play. Classes are either cosmetic or just extra buffs, depending on individual perspective. If someone doesn't have a tail and has a hat that covers their face, you wouldn't even have any idea what their race is. The impact of race on playstyle is far less even than the impact of choosing light, medium, or heavy armor. The impact of race is less than the impact of wearing all green versus all yellow gear.

Truth is, I'm fine with allowing class changes too, but that could be disruptive to the game. Race changes won't be disruptive at all. Class change is also a lot of work since it would involve all your class skills being back to zero -- though they could save your old class skills much like vampire and werewolf skill lines so that you can always change back. I actually have no problem with that, though I prefer the zeroed out skills approach to slow down the rate of change. If there are people who are really tied to their race and only want a single character and did something on that character that would be hard to replace, I'm fine with letting them change.

And go ahead and let people change race every day if they want. Let them experiment or swap race like they swap armor, if they are willing to pay the money.

I strongly disagree with your last sentence. How is it disrespectful and inconsiderate? It has no bearing on them.

DaveMoeDee

Dualrifle wrote: »

Race and class is like the Foundation of a character. If 1 is allowed to change, the other should be as well. It is basically what you choose when you "create" your character.

You know what else is a "foundation" determined when you create a character?

Your face.

So are you saying that if they allow people to change their faces, they should also allow them to change race and class, since those are all chosen when you "create" you character?

If you do not agree that face should also be included with those other 2 choices, than we can agree that being part of character creation does not necessarily mean that a trait should be unchangeable.

TheShadowScout

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Dualrifle wrote: »

Race and class is like the Foundation of a character. If 1 is allowed to change, the other should be as well. It is basically what you choose when you "create" your character.

You know what else is a "foundation" determined when you create a character?

Your face.

So are you saying that if they allow people to change their faces, they should also allow them to change race and class, since those are all chosen when you "create" you character?

If you do not agree that face should also be included with those other 2 choices, than we can agree that being part of character creation does not necessarily mean that a trait should be unchangeable.

Well, face change is reported to come. "Soon™" It has been requested over and over again, ever since the game went live back last year...
(and good thing too, there have been some people who made their characters back in the day when the zoom function of chargen was bugged, and others that really want to adjust some detail that looked different in chargen then in live game... or adjust their character to represent their development following all the story, etc.)

For a roleplayer like me, the only good reason to really make major changes would be if something new was added to the game that fit my character idea better then the current race/class. if they were to add new races, I might want a race chance. If they would add new classes, I might want a class change. If they don't add something new, I wouldn't want to change class or race, because my characters come from a -character idea-, not a set of game statistics.

I can understand people wanting to change their race for chasing the best passives... I may consider it foolish, but I can understand them.
Then there are also people who may feel the need to reinvent their character to make a break with a roleplay string that ended... badly. And may not wish to just discard a year of levelling, research, achievements, etc.
As long as it costs enough - let them. Just pays for more stuff sooner for the rest of us.
The lore issue isn't one since -as I mentioned before- there are precedents in the game.

Class changes are a little more iffy, due to all the class skills and the need to max the skills themselves... but that's more of a technical issue. And might be more difficult then could be worth it, since most people see their character class as the main thing... thus less people who might want to change that, and thus less income through selling that in the crown store, maybe not enough to be worth the effort to implement it and work out the bugs... so I am kinda doubtful we'll ever see class changes. But... who knows?

BtW, another thing that's a "foundation" to your character? Your character name! And some people may really be keen on changing that too, either because they made a typoo, or because they have since had a batter idea, (or want to adjust their character name to be more lore-conform), or whatever... and hopefully, that too may come in time.

Artjuh90

Dualrifle wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Class change is actually quite different. Picking a class is picking 3 skill lines and a general style of play.

Picking a race is just 3 meaningful passives at most since the weapon level passive is useless in the long run. Changing race is just swapping out passives, a much smaller change than changing a class. Clearly the gameplay is based around classes, not race. People want to switch to races that compliment their class.

I understand where you are coming from. And it's true in terms of "practical" race change seems like a more viable request.

But in the end, if ZOS will let people choose the "optimal" race for their class, what's wrong with people wanting to choose the "Optimal" class for their race? I mean class skill have changed over the course of the game. if Last time DK was the king of PVP and now it is sorc / NB time, what's wrong with people want to change their class to the more "mainstream" class? in a way if people say it is not fair that some racial have changed, guess what, so are classes skills, if you want to be fair, please be fair all the way. don't cherry pick where to be fair.

Race and class is like the Foundation of a character. If 1 is allowed to change, the other should be as well. It is basically what you choose when you "create" your character.

For me, the better choice is to not let people change race or class. But hey the world doesn't revolve around me. So let's see what the dev do. I just hope either they implement race+class change, or not at all... Or even if they do implement it, it better be twice the effort of getting master angler title with final piece of item quest have to be purchased from crown store, and with 1 time limit to change.

And actually simply letting people changing their race is very disrespectful and inconsiderate to those people that spend a lot of time rebuilding their character with different race.

so change it so everybody get's mainstream and classes will get less balanced good idia
would like a name change though so i can give my argonian templar more an argonian like name, somehow artje doesn't fit :P

Dualrifle

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

You know what else is a "foundation" determined when you create a character?

Your face.

So are you saying that if they allow people to change their faces, they should also allow them to change race and class, since those are all chosen when you "create" you character?

If you do not agree that face should also be included with those other 2 choices, than we can agree that being part of character creation does not necessarily mean that a trait should be unchangeable.

Fortunately, I paid so much attention when creating my character face, so I'm happy about it.
I'm also hoping that the barber shop that's coming will only allow to modify your hair / beard, if any my character problem is lack of beard

ADarklore

Well let's see... I can think of some good reasons for class and race changes in the Crown Store. How many of you that are opposed have spent real money in the crown store upgrading your horse... spend what, $120 or more on one character... oh, but now why not just re-roll or create a new character and lose all that money you just spent; it's an easy answer for those who haven't spent real money on a character.

Ballzy321

Y does race change bother anyone. It doesn't affect anyone but the person buying it. I hope they do add it might be the only way to change my appearance since barber shops are coming in a few years it looks like. People need to calm down.

Reznique

Race changes are a necessity taking into account ZOS's inability to balance out racial passives and being "special" enough to remove softcaps. Hopegully sometime after Orsinium, maybe thieves guild DLC?

When you begin making a character- you have no ACTUAL way to see the racial passives. So a person with a magica v16 Argonian will be MUCH weaker than a v16 High Elf. Spending another 70+ hrs on grind+ loosing your achievements just to become more competitive? Thank you Zenimax

BTW, if you want this thread to be actually seen by ZOS, you should have renamed it to something like- " Tamriel fishing competition! Your photos here!" or "Feminist gamers blame ESO for sexism due to Gender Imbalance in the '5 companions' organistaion"- They love this stuff

Malmai

Legedric wrote: »

When hell freezes over.

Seriously, they keep telling us they are working on it for months now but then again... they have better things to use their resources for than this.

Like new pets ?

ADarklore

Also, I imagine more players would keep playing the game if they could pay for race and class changes. MANY people like their original character, have invested tons of time in them, but want to try something new with them. When I was playing DCUO, I changed my character's powers, name, appearance, etc... frequently just to try new things. If I had to create a new character and spend all that time and money leveling just to stave off boredom or try a new power, I would have left the game a lot sooner than the two years I spent there.

Iluvrien

ADarklore wrote: »

Well let's see... I can think of some good reasons for class and race changes in the Crown Store. How many of you that are opposed have spent real money in the crown store upgrading your horse... spend what, $120 or more on one character... oh, but now why not just re-roll or create a new character and lose all that money you just spent; it's an easy answer for those who haven't spent real money on a character.

I haven't spent real money in the crown store on those things for some of the same reasons that I am against race change. I don't like the idea of waving a magic (cash) wand outside the game and having things inside the game suddenly be different.

ADarklore

Iluvrien wrote: »

I haven't spent real money in the crown store on those things for some of the same reasons that I am against race change. I don't like the idea of waving a magic (cash) wand outside the game and having things inside the game suddenly be different.

But that's YOU... and the game needs a source of income generation in order to survive. Further, I don't like the idea of investing months of my life only to get bored with my character and then have to make the choice of either leaving the game or re-investing months of my life in another character just to try something different. As I noted above, if DCUO would have been like that, I would not have stuck around for two years. This game needs to create more incentive for players to stick around instead of penalizing them for wanting to make changes to a character they've invested tons of time and money into.

Jitterbug

Dualrifle wrote: »

If they allow Race change, then Class change should be next. If you can somehow change from a Lizard to a Cat, you should definitely able to change your job.

I didn't follow Eso progression since the begining, But did the racial passive change so much from what it was? If not, then I find it strange that people demands race change, and it's not like if your are for example a Magicka Bosmer Sorc people decided to not include you in the party is it?

Edit: 1 more thing tho, don't forget that racial choice also helps in certain way, for example when leveling your selection of chosen skill. I don't think it's fair to people that painfully leveling their restoration staff, when argonian can level them like 15% faster. (although in the end it's probably doesn't matter that much)

yeah, nerf those damn lizards!

b92303008rwb17_ESO

For those who are against race change, do not fight it anymore. It is a matter of when, not if.

Iluvrien

ADarklore wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

I haven't spent real money in the crown store on those things for some of the same reasons that I am against race change. I don't like the idea of waving a magic (cash) wand outside the game and having things inside the game suddenly be different.

But that's YOU... and the game needs a source of income generation in order to survive. Further, I don't like the idea of investing months of my life only to get bored with my character and then have to make the choice of either leaving the game or re-investing months of my life in another character just to try something different. As I noted above, if DCUO would have been like that, I would not have stuck around for two years. This game needs to create more incentive for players to stick around instead of penalizing them for wanting to make changes to a character they've invested tons of time and money into.

The game has a source of income generation. I've had an active sub since PC launch, thanks.

Failing that, cosmetic items and other such vanity items don't seem to be doing too badly.

What you are arguing for is the ability to directly influence game mechanics by using money.

You said that you don't want to give up on a character after investing tons of time and money into it... but if you are that invested in that character as a character, then why the interest in being able to change its defining features?

The way you present your request rather suggests that you view your "character" as an assemblage of an XP, Achievements, Skyshards and Alliance Points... the particular race, class or face that this assemblage wears is, to you, a fluid construct. Is that about right?

Ghost-Shot

As OP as my nord DK is, I would love to change my race, I just don't have it in me to level another DK

Kovaden

If you want to enjoy the game you want it to last and for it to last it needs popularity which gives ZoS money. I say yes to race change.

Iluvrien wrote: »

No race change thanks.

Just because another MMO does it doesn't mean this on has to, popularity or not.

I don't need ESO to be popular to enjoy it. I need it to be good.

Aoife32001

I've been waiting for just an appearance editor for like 18 months. At this point, I'm not even holding my breath on that, let along a race/class editor.

It, just like the heat death of the universe, will be here eventually.

Alec508

Chelo wrote: »

I've been waiting like 8 months to change my Khajit to a Breton... When is it going to be on the Crown Store?

Why not make a new character ? 8 months you could be maxed out by now and still keep your khajiit

Aoife32001

Alec508 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

I've been waiting like 8 months to change my Khajit to a Breton... When is it going to be on the Crown Store?

Why not make a new character ? 8 months you could be maxed out by now and still keep your khajiit

I don't have enough play time myself to max out in 8 months, and I don't really feel like flushing all the time I have spent getting to Veteran Rank on my character. To be perfectly honest, I'm more likely to stop playing (and more or less have) than to reinvest all that time.

acw37162

Soon™

tinythinker

When race changes become available in the Crown Store, be prepared for a wave of Argonians flooding Tamriel.

TheShadowScout

tinythinker wrote: »

When race changes become available in the Crown Store, be prepared for a wave of Argonians flooding Tamriel.

Wouldn't it make more sense for a wave of argonians to come -after- any flooding?

Drat...

Now iwant a mostly flooded region where argonians rule and all other character struggle to get anywhere, swimming-wise...

But race change is coming, much like winter. It certainly will appear with, or in the wake of, any character recustomization option. And the most likely place for that to be released would be with the Thieeves Guild / Dark Brotherhood DLCs, early 2016, so...

FilteredRiddle

Please!

I made a Bosmer toon. Many months later, I purchased the Imperial Edition bundle (finances allowed for it finally). However, if I want to make an Imperial I'm expected to make an entirely new character and that stinks.

ZOS needs to implement either [1] a way for people who purchase the Adventurer Pack or Digital Imperial Edition Upgrade after making characters, to change all existing characters' races or [2] an in-game gold and out-of-game crowns way to purchase race changes (e.g. in-game shrines and out-of-game respecification scrolls).

Autolycus

Alucardo wrote: »

baddabumb16_ESO wrote: »

why stupid? many race pasives was changed. a few many times and for me a few not so good as leveling my chars. its fair after change race pasives that zeni gives the playerbase 1 free respec for the race. sorry for my english.

They were changed, but they have been changed for the better. The only race that really needs some work when I look at the passives is Argonian. "Increases swimming speed by 50%" - lol, are they having a laugh? Not like you can outswim slaughterfish.

Clearly you haven't ever played an Argonian. Their other passives make up for the circumstantial usefulness of increased swim speed. And, for the record, people were out-swimming slaughterfish to get into the Imperial City before it released, and they were successful.

I personally know many players who would gladly fork over crowns for a race change feature. Almost all of them take this stance as a direct result of modifications to racial passives. There is no other alternative besides leveling a whole new character. Anybody here who has leveled multiple characters knows immediately that this is a huge inconvenience. Besides, ZOS stands to make money by adding this feature, and they know it. It's unlikely the funds would be used to improve the game or add new content, but that's a separate issue.