Removal of VR

cmorning

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Lets think about this for a second. People are upset over the VR ranks? They don't like it, they don't like the Champion Point system either.

So if they had done this instead, would you still be upset....

Instead of capping the level at 50 and then going into VR ranks, what if they had raised the level to 100 or 200? What is the difference? Nothing really. So if they want to shut you people up for complaining about VR ranks and Champion Points, they could simple increase the level cap from 50 to 200 or even 300 and be done with it.

So now what are you going to complain about? It floors me to no end to see people *** about the VR Ranks and Champion Points and cry about it. Well I'm level 50 and I can't beat a level VR 16. So if you are a level 50 and the other person is a level 100 what are you going to complain about then? You still can't beat him.

Just think about it, what difference would it really make? NONE. Let the level cap, VR and Champion Point system go. Other things need to be discussed in this game, more important things other than you not being able to beat someone in PVP because they are a little stronger than you.

You want to see this game change, let them get rid of the VR and Champion Point system. You'll have a mass exodus of players on a grand scale. The game servers would be shut down within a year because you hard core base of players, you're paying customers would move on to something else, because their time and money spent was for nothing.

Please lets discuss something else like bugs, glitches that sort of thing.

Katahdin

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

I am enjoying Cadwell's Silver and Gold. Its not required to level that way. It doesn't take that long to go around the zones and collect all the skyshards and not do the quests if you don't want to.

I say leave Silver and Gold and the vet system as it is for those that want to play that way and those that don't can level up in PvP or grind or whatever. Having different options isn't a bad thing in my book.

NewBlacksmurf

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

phbell wrote: »

The only people that I see complaining are those that do not want to do the work to earn them.

define earn them and please specify when said time-frame of "earn them" was accomplished by yourself.

-I'm writing this because depending on when you progressed the methods have changed drastically from PC launch until now.
When it was common to do silver n gold only via grouping and then later the difficulty was changed to allow solo progress. VR was 8, then 10, 12, 14 and now 16 pending what will be a VR18 max soon.

OR Craglorn grinding when that was released as well as the silver and gold zone grinding
.....fast forward to now

All the above has changed so when you comment saying people don't want to work or earn levels, its taken very different depending on whose reading the comments. Right now people hear, "go do all the quests in silver and gold or PvP grind public dungeons or IC sewers."

Me personally...when i see comment like this, I tend to think there is a lack of consideration for others as we all heard and to some extent are aware of the announcement made prior to the justice system, champion system and console launch that Veteran levels are being removed. That alone is the reason VR should be removed....

TalonShina

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

cmorning wrote: »

Lets think about this for a second. People are upset over the VR ranks? They don't like it, they don't like the Champion Point system either.

So if they had done this instead, would you still be upset....

Instead of capping the level at 50 and then going into VR ranks, what if they had raised the level to 100 or 200? What is the difference? Nothing really. So if they want to shut you people up for complaining about VR ranks and Champion Points, they could simple increase the level cap from 50 to 200 or even 300 and be done with it.

So now what are you going to complain about? It floors me to no end to see people *** about the VR Ranks and Champion Points and cry about it. Well I'm level 50 and I can't beat a level VR 16. So if you are a level 50 and the other person is a level 100 what are you going to complain about then? You still can't beat him.

Just think about it, what difference would it really make? NONE. Let the level cap, VR and Champion Point system go. Other things need to be discussed in this game, more important things other than you not being able to beat someone in PVP because they are a little stronger than you.

You want to see this game change, let them get rid of the VR and Champion Point system. You'll have a mass exodus of players on a grand scale. The game servers would be shut down within a year because you hard core base of players, you're paying customers would move on to something else, because their time and money spent was for nothing.

Please lets discuss something else like bugs, glitches that sort of thing.

I want to add that if the cap was 50 no Vet levels and no Cps since so many complain about both likely those complaining to get rid of both systems would come here complaining there is nothing to do and the level cap needs to be raised or they need something to keep progressing. But then when that happens they complain about that too

myrrrorb14_ESO

I want to keep VR ranks but they should be modified somehow.

I am okay with the ranks how they are now. It offers advancement and ties in to gear and equipment very nicely. The vet levels themselves have been beaten down to manageable levels to aquire.

I dont see how they would use cp rank to replace vr, since cp are account wide. I guess they would need to keep track of each individual amount?

I think they should remove the veteran rank and just convert and expand the leveling system. Raise the level by two every half year or three per year. Whatever makes sense for new equipment.

The_Drexill

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

Gidorick

I want to keep VR ranks but they should be modified somehow.

Convert them to regular levels. Set level cap to 80.

TalonShina

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Gidorick wrote: »

Convert them to regular levels. Set level cap to 80.

Does that really change anything though? What would be the point? it's exactly the same thing with a different name.
However, I suspect the griping would stop if they did that. I don't think they should have to reskin the level names though it seems petty to me

Arato

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

DhuBleidd wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion about removal of VR ranks so I wanted to see how many people actually agree or disagree with it. Also please after you vote write the reason why you voted so, would like this to be a constructive thread. nbsp pls

I think that VRs create too much of a linear experience, I feel that after completing the main storyline and reaching level 50 I've experienced enough "tutorial" (which is what I consider vertical leveling.. an extended tutorial) and would like to start doing various other types of content, but because of VR's you're funneled into 2 options: Grinding mobs in a circle to level, or doing Cadwell's Silver/Gold to level. Any other options like running dungeons, craglorn, or trials, or PVP, you're either so low you're not going to be able to effectively do them (Trials in particular since they don't scale, but also PVP you just get destroyed by people several VR's higher than you with you barely able to hit them), or even if the content scales, other players won't take you in their dungeon group because their loot will be lower level so you're worthless to them.

So on the linear solo grind you continue until you reach the VR cap. Then the options for gameplay open up to you.

I'd rather open up the game options at 50, than at VR16, heck, I'd rather open up the game's options at 50 than at VR10.

The other major thing? The fact that ZoS has said they'd do it.

Had they never made that claim? I'd just focus on making VR's less grindy, I'd maybe PREFER for them to set the cap at 50 and open up a bunch of options..... but I wouldn't expect it or anticipate it. It'd be like me PREFERRING that TESO not even have character levels but instead simply individual skill line levels. I think that'd be kind of neat.... but I don't expect that kind of overhaul because ZoS never said they'd do it.

But they said they would and I don't think it's a good precedent to set to let developers lie like politicians.

Arato

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

Stranglehands wrote: »

The ideal scenario is that when you beat the 1-50 zones you get a nice variety of options (cyrodiil, craglorn, imperial city, orsinium, cadwell's silver/gold) that you can just dip into however you want. The simplest way to go about that would be to have a level cap at 50 but can't help but think that that would get incredibly boring. I'm not sure how to fix it but one thing I do know is I don't feel like levelling any more characters up through cadwell's silver and gold

apparently all it takes to not make it boring despite doing the exact same content is to have an xp bar keep moving? What makes it less boring sitting at VR16 than it does at 50? It's no different.

It's just a hamster wheel you're running on without making any actual progress or going anywhere because the things you fight are scaling with you.

The REAL progress is going to new places, getting new gear, and horizontal progression systems like crafting, cps, and skill levels/ranks.

But all of that is independent of your character's level/VR. The level/VR is wholly unnecessary to even have, much less increase, in order to add new content, new zones, new gear, and new skills.

deadlock007

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

Arato

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

deadlock007 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

1 every hour or so maybe if you're just grinding mobs in a circle, which appeals to a very small minority of gamers. If you're questing it takes longer.

NewBlacksmurf

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

deadlock007 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

Please share by faction, zone and method how you're gaining 1 VR per hour
msg me if you'd rather not comment here.

seriously

phbell

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

The only people that I see complaining are those that do not want to do the work to earn them.

define earn them and please specify when said time-frame of "earn them" was accomplished by yourself.

-I'm writing this because depending on when you progressed the methods have changed drastically from PC launch until now.
When it was common to do silver n gold only via grouping and then later the difficulty was changed to allow solo progress. VR was 8, then 10, 12, 14 and now 16 pending what will be a VR18 max soon.

OR Craglorn grinding when that was released as well as the silver and gold zone grinding
.....fast forward to now

All the above has changed so when you comment saying people don't want to work or earn levels, its taken very different depending on whose reading the comments. Right now people hear, "go do all the quests in silver and gold or PvP grind public dungeons or IC sewers."

Me personally...when i see comment like this, I tend to think there is a lack of consideration for others as we all heard and to some extent are aware of the announcement made prior to the justice system, champion system and console launch that Veteran levels are being removed. That alone is the reason VR should be removed....

The "them" to which I refer is Vet levels and by "earn" i mean exactly what the word means. Do the work. I got my first 3 toons to VR 12 back when that was the highest level and each level required more XP last the last - V12 needing something like 5.4M xp. Then 1.6 dropped and those players that followed could earn V12 with 1M xp per level. Then the latest patch has lowered each level to 850K and still people complain.

Lack of consideration? Perhaps. But no more than the lack of consideration offered those that put in the game time and work to reach the VR levels, from those that want the same levels without putting in the same effort.

Remove Vet levels? Every time ZOS says this they add 2 more levels, making it even harder to unwind. Soon VR18 will be the max. That is a odd way to go about eliminating them.

PBpsy

I want to keep VR ranks but they should be modified somehow.

-The exp needed for each rank should be reduced by 10%,15% for each max rank char you already have.
-Enlightenment should also apply to your ranking not just CPs.
-Exp in Crag and Orsinium should provide a pretty fast leveling route.
-Dropped equipment sets should be able to drop at all ranks.

Some_Jerk

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

With champion points as an infinite or (near infinite) progression system in place I do not see the need to keep VR levels. I'm really hoping that with their removal comes a simplification of the types of basic crafting materials as well (as in, only iron/steel/(orc?)ore, dwemer, then ebony as the highest tier metal.) Right now there's way too many with the VR's.

NewBlacksmurf

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

phbell wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

The only people that I see complaining are those that do not want to do the work to earn them.

define earn them and please specify when said time-frame of "earn them" was accomplished by yourself.

-I'm writing this because depending on when you progressed the methods have changed drastically from PC launch until now.
When it was common to do silver n gold only via grouping and then later the difficulty was changed to allow solo progress. VR was 8, then 10, 12, 14 and now 16 pending what will be a VR18 max soon.

OR Craglorn grinding when that was released as well as the silver and gold zone grinding
.....fast forward to now

All the above has changed so when you comment saying people don't want to work or earn levels, its taken very different depending on whose reading the comments. Right now people hear, "go do all the quests in silver and gold or PvP grind public dungeons or IC sewers."

Me personally...when i see comment like this, I tend to think there is a lack of consideration for others as we all heard and to some extent are aware of the announcement made prior to the justice system, champion system and console launch that Veteran levels are being removed. That alone is the reason VR should be removed....

The "them" to which I refer is Vet levels and by "earn" i mean exactly what the word means. Do the work. I got my first 3 toons to VR 12 back when that was the highest level and each level required more XP last the last - V12 needing something like 5.4M xp. Then 1.6 dropped and those players that followed could earn V12 with 1M xp per level. Then the latest patch has lowered each level to 850K and still people complain.

Lack of consideration? Perhaps. But no more than the lack of consideration offered those that put in the game time and work to reach the VR levels, from those that want the same levels without putting in the same effort.

Remove Vet levels? Every time ZOS says this they add 2 more levels, making it even harder to unwind. Soon VR18 will be the max. That is a odd way to go about eliminating them.

Ok so in context...you're expecting others to progress as you have when in fact whichever way you decided to level up, all options are drastically different and take a whole heck of a lot longer.

The only changes that work to a players advantage now are if they don't mind doing the silver and gold quests (not grinding but the actual quests) or go to a PvP public dungeon or IC sewers all which still take longer than when the max was vr12.

I think both of us having been around back then can fairly agree that things are drastically different.
My question to you is this....why should players "earn" VR levels knowing that they will be completely removed soon?

Regardless of any opinions, does it make sense to "earn" something that will be taken away? (Think of how VR was applied to champion levels) or how (the champion level cap takes away any "earned" champion levels over 502)

nimander99

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Gidorick wrote: »

Convert them to regular levels. Set level cap to 80.

I'd be cool with this as well.

MisterBigglesworth

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

Vet Ranks and Champ System should both removed from the game. Just have gear progression like a "normal" MMO.

Van_0S

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

All I want is pve to be easy mode(nowdays, I use only two handed weapon i.e. brawler and wreaking blow). PVP is anyways difficult to compete.

Yakidafi

I Don't care, might aswell keep em.

Vrienda

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

Desperately want them to be removed so I can come back, I'm mainly a solo player (Give or take the odd dungeon, trial ect...) and since they've removed all the easy ways of leveling I've been stuck at VR12 since 1.3. I hate craglorn's group-only quests and I hate PvP, but I still want to level to VR 16 to do future trials, wrothgar might help, true, but I doubt it'll take me the 4 VR's I need.
If they won't remove them at least add a way for us solo players to farm the xp we need, reducing the xp needed is nice and all, but it isn't enough.

Arato

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

s_tibob16_ESO wrote: »

With champion points as an infinite or (near infinite) progression system in place I do not see the need to keep VR levels. I'm really hoping that with their removal comes a simplification of the types of basic crafting materials as well (as in, only iron/steel/(orc?)ore, dwemer, then ebony as the highest tier metal.) Right now there's way too many with the VR's.

You know, I really wanted this myself, in single player TES games, ebony is the highest grade of raw metal (Daedric is just a processed ebony).. but here they've thrown in all kinds of metals that simply don't exist in the TES universe and it feels corny.

But with the raise to VR16 and adding a new tier of material? Not going to happen unfortunately.

Some_Jerk

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

Arato wrote: »

s_tibob16_ESO wrote: »

With champion points as an infinite or (near infinite) progression system in place I do not see the need to keep VR levels. I'm really hoping that with their removal comes a simplification of the types of basic crafting materials as well (as in, only iron/steel/(orc?)ore, dwemer, then ebony as the highest tier metal.) Right now there's way too many with the VR's.

You know, I really wanted this myself, in single player TES games, ebony is the highest grade of raw metal (Daedric is just a processed ebony).. but here they've thrown in all kinds of metals that simply don't exist in the TES universe and it feels corny.

But with the raise to VR16 and adding a new tier of material? Not going to happen unfortunately.

It is corny, and it is too far outside of the lore for my liking. I get that in an MMO lore boundaries will be broken, (like special mounts in the crown store, it IS an MMO and profit is important and players want to stand out.) but previous TES games made it pretty clear that ebony is the ultimate "metal" (if we're going to consider it a metal). calcinium, voidsteel, rubedite, ect, none of these things exist in this universe. I feel if they are going to keep the VR ranks they should expand the range of the original metals/woods/cloths/leathers instead of adding more in.

I am not sure what you mean by " But with the raise to VR16 and adding a new tier of material? Not going to happen unfortunately"

Arato

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

s_tibob16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

s_tibob16_ESO wrote: »

With champion points as an infinite or (near infinite) progression system in place I do not see the need to keep VR levels. I'm really hoping that with their removal comes a simplification of the types of basic crafting materials as well (as in, only iron/steel/(orc?)ore, dwemer, then ebony as the highest tier metal.) Right now there's way too many with the VR's.

You know, I really wanted this myself, in single player TES games, ebony is the highest grade of raw metal (Daedric is just a processed ebony).. but here they've thrown in all kinds of metals that simply don't exist in the TES universe and it feels corny.

But with the raise to VR16 and adding a new tier of material? Not going to happen unfortunately.

It is corny, and it is too far outside of the lore for my liking. I get that in an MMO lore boundaries will be broken, (like special mounts in the crown store, it IS an MMO and profit is important and players want to stand out.) but previous TES games made it pretty clear that ebony is the ultimate "metal" (if we're going to consider it a metal). calcinium, voidsteel, rubedite, ect, none of these things exist in this universe. I feel if they are going to keep the VR ranks they should expand the range of the original metals/woods/cloths/leathers instead of adding more in.

I am not sure what you mean by " But with the raise to VR16 and adding a new tier of material? Not going to happen unfortunately"

well, if they're adding new made up materials it's just not likely that they're going to revert, especially with how rare those new materials are and the material requirements to craft VR16 gear with them.

Trying to scale that down to Ebony would be a real hassle, so I don't think they'd do it, and they never said they'd simplify crafting materials (all the while players are telling them that crafting mats require too much inventory/bank space, I myself think our crafting system has WAY too much clutter and could really use streamlining down to 5 tiers of materials of each profession, and just the trait stones no style stones )..

But instead of compressing down how many mats there are they blow up how many there are, not only do you need malachite for glass and dwemer frameworks for dwemer, but you need the scraps/shards to make into their respective style stones.. it's pointless bloat and clutter.

Remember when they were supposed to reduce the number of crafting materials for provisioning there were? That only applied to people who got all 3 variants of the same recipe each tier and kept all the ingredients (even ones not from their faction) on hand. Very few people actually did that, so the provisioning change actually created bloat for most people rather than resulting in fewer ingredients.

Whoever's in charge of crafting in this game is really off his/her rocker.

TheValkyn

Veteran zones should scale to the player's Veteran Rank. It would make cadwell's a bit more interesting.

Skinzz

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Non vet or low vet players complaining cause they're not vr16 as always.

Iluvrien

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

I have been playing since PC launch. My main is VR16 and I have a couple of alts on their way up.

I have hated Veteran Ranks since I first hit them, pre-nerf, I still hate them now. I have put in the work but I still want them gone.

I want ZOS to surprise me and follow through on their stated intention by actually removing them.

Gidorick

I want to keep VR ranks but they should be modified somehow.

nimander99 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Convert them to regular levels. Set level cap to 80.

I'd be cool with this as well.

@nimander99, I'm not sure if you've ever seen my thread outlining my concept of how ZOS could replace the Vet Ranks with 30 levels... check it out here if you haven't: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174148/level-50-80-vr-1-16-replacement-a-new-ish-concept/p1

If you guys like the concept please comment to keep the thread alive. (posting for bumping is discouraged on these forums)

Gidorick

I want to keep VR ranks but they should be modified somehow.

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Vet Ranks and Champ System should both removed from the game. Just have gear progression like a "normal" MMO.

@MisterBigglesworth, I don't think either are inherently bad... they were just implemented a bit too broadly.

Vet Ranks should have never been anything but more levels. The idea of "Veteran" ranks in an Elder Scrolls game is.. well... absurd. I think ZOS should convert the Vet Ranks to regular levels. Concept here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/174148/level-50-80-vr-1-16-replacement-a-new-ish-concept/p1

And the Champion System should have never been a all-you-can-eat buffet of progression. Sure you have choices, until everyone is fattened up on Champion Points and then we're all the same. The CP system should have been (and could still be) a perpetual and selective buff system where players must choose their build from the stars. Concept here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219662/cp-active-passive-bar-cp-burn-concept/p1

Is they made these changes, I think it would improve progression dramatically... but that's just me