Max Magicka vs. Spell Damage - Sorcerers

Ezareth

twistedmonk wrote: »

very interesting...

so what should I use again?

@twistedmonk

That depends on many factors.

How many CPs do you have and how are they placed?

Are you wearing 5 or 7 piece light armor?

When PvPing are you drinking spellpower/tri-stat potions often or almost never?

Are you Altmer/Breton?

Are you using Seducer or Kagrenanc or Magnus for your 5 piece crafted set?

Xeven wrote: »

I've known since I started playing in 1.5 when sorc sucked ass and couldn't even refresh hardened ward.

/Boggle

Derra

Sorc in 1.5 wasn´t exactly great but we surely did not suck ass ._.

I needed over 300 cp in 1.6 to become stronger than my 1.5 build

Thrasher91604

So if you use overload to restore majicka, doesn't that make regen not very important?

Cinnamon_Spider

Yonkit wrote: »

@Ezareth I don't know if you play like this on your NB as you don't really have access to DoTs on him but from bumping into you on Crassus I'd assume that since you run Sword & Board if you still do, that you play somewhat like this with Cinnamon acting as your pocket healer and slowly taking people down with jabs for you to go in for the kill? Am I right in assuming that or no?

I'm no ones pocket healer

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

So if you use overload to restore majicka, doesn't that make regen not very important?

Energy Overload just isn't very good IMO. The magic you get back isn't enough to make a difference and it does less damage than Power Overload.

Ezareth

Derra wrote: »

Sorc in 1.5 wasn´t exactly great but we surely did not suck ass ._.

I needed over 300 cp in 1.6 to become stronger than my 1.5 build

I think Sorc in 1.5 was great, at least I never had any problems. Magicka DKs were the hardest to kill but they all died the same.

Everyone required at least a hundred or more CP in 1.6 to be as powerful as they were in 1.5 There was a ton of stealth nerfs to the game to both stats and several other factors that took CPs to bridge the gap.

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm no ones pocket healer

GET IN MAH POCKET!

Stikato

Magicka sorc in 1.5 might not have been as powerful as 1.6, but it sure was fun to play in that meta.

Having high HP meant not having to recast shields as often. Burst was still good. DKs were tough, but were like fighting minibosses, very rewarding when done right.

Rerolled stam during 1.5, because that's what I always intended to play. Tried max magicka build during 1.6...ugh. Awful. Shield, shield, shield, shield, shield, back to stam an hour later.

tl;dr: magicka sorc 1.3ish-1.5 was a great experience.

Derra

Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sorc in 1.5 wasn´t exactly great but we surely did not suck ass ._.

I needed over 300 cp in 1.6 to become stronger than my 1.5 build

I think Sorc in 1.5 was great, at least I never had any problems. Magicka DKs were the hardest to kill but they all died the same.

Everyone required at least a hundred or more CP in 1.6 to be as powerful as they were in 1.5 There was a ton of stealth nerfs to the game to both stats and several other factors that took CPs to bridge the gap.

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm no ones pocket healer

GET IN MAH POCKET!

Well i just hated the permablock everyone running S&B meta of 1.5. It was basically impossible to run destro staff for a solo sorc bc you needed doublereflect against every player. Maybe it was different on NA - but on the EU server every player would basically block backpeddal and heal until help arrived.

That´s one thing i strongly dislike about 2.1. Sword and board is becoming the offensive weaponset of choice for stam builds again. I think it should not be vaible for offense (with so much passive defense).

Ezareth

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sorc in 1.5 wasn´t exactly great but we surely did not suck ass ._.

I needed over 300 cp in 1.6 to become stronger than my 1.5 build

I think Sorc in 1.5 was great, at least I never had any problems. Magicka DKs were the hardest to kill but they all died the same.

Everyone required at least a hundred or more CP in 1.6 to be as powerful as they were in 1.5 There was a ton of stealth nerfs to the game to both stats and several other factors that took CPs to bridge the gap.

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm no ones pocket healer

GET IN MAH POCKET!

Well i just hated the permablock everyone running S&B meta of 1.5. It was basically impossible to run destro staff for a solo sorc bc you needed doublereflect against every player. Maybe it was different on NA - but on the EU server every player would basically block backpeddal and heal until help arrived.

That´s one thing i strongly dislike about 2.1. Sword and board is becoming the offensive weaponset of choice for stam builds again. I think it should not be vaible for offense (with so much passive defense).

Well in 1.5 I ran S&B/Resto on my Sorc. When an entire class could reflect 75% of your damage permanently your only option was double reflect. Thankfully (back then) Velocious curse was not blockable, nor was mages wrath. It was usually a long resource fight with DKs and some of them just did insane damage.

I'm agree S&B is the best offensive setup for Stamina a host of reasons. It only took me a couple weeks of playing a Stamina build for the first time to figure that one out. I think the tradeoff really is it has far less armor penetration and lower weapon damage than a 2hander/DW build. The passive defense of a S&B build was nerfed pretty hard this patch with the penalty to using block so I don't think an other nerfs are necessary.

cschwingeb14_ESO

Heh, there were plenty of ways to beat 1.5 DKs built around reflect and block. The light undaunted set (back then you needed the stam anyway), resto heavy, curse and fury was almost enough all by itself. DKs that also were smart enough to run good healing as a fallback option were super tough though

Thrasher91604

Energy and power morphs of overload do the same damage. I don't use the heavy attacks so aoe increase of power doesn't matter. But I use power light attacks whenever majicka is low. Works great to restore and do damage.

Septimus_Magna

/

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Energy and power morphs of overload do the same damage. I don't use the heavy attacks so aoe increase of power doesn't matter. But I use power light attacks whenever majicka is low. Works great to restore and do damage.

Power Overload has a 6% damage increase for both light and heavy overload attacks.

Usually the time you spend overloading is long enough for my magicka pool to be fully regenerated, without the extra magicka gain from Energy Overload.

Waffennacht

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

/

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Energy and power morphs of overload do the same damage. I don't use the heavy attacks so aoe increase of power doesn't matter. But I use power light attacks whenever majicka is low. Works great to restore and do damage.

Power Overload has a 6% damage increase for both light and heavy overload attacks.

Usually the time you spend overloading is long enough for my magicka pool to be fully regenerated, without the extra magicka gain from Energy Overload.

Is this then a tooltip error? On the game it says it increases heavy attack damage only. I'd like to know the real numbers

ToRelax

Waffennacht wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

/

Thrasher91604 wrote: »

Energy and power morphs of overload do the same damage. I don't use the heavy attacks so aoe increase of power doesn't matter. But I use power light attacks whenever majicka is low. Works great to restore and do damage.

Power Overload has a 6% damage increase for both light and heavy overload attacks.

Usually the time you spend overloading is long enough for my magicka pool to be fully regenerated, without the extra magicka gain from Energy Overload.

Is this then a tooltip error? On the game it says it increases heavy attack damage only. I'd like to know the real numbers

Last time I tested it (1.6 PTS) the tooltip stated additional damage to both attacks regardless of morph; Power Overload heavy attacks have greater range and Energy Overload light and heavy attacks restore magicka. That was correct, there was no difference in damage.
Some people told me back they thought the extra damage was part of the Power Overload morph and didn't remember the Energy Overload TT anymore, so I suspect nothing changed and unless you use heavy attacks, the Power Overload morph makes no sense at all.

Waffennacht

The reason I bring it up was I morphed it again last night, and on the green text for the morph it stated, "increase range and radius of heavy attack" no mention of light attack

Im at work but the wiki says both have "both attacks deal 3% more damage"

And the only dif in morphs is: light and heavy restore magicka and then the radius and range increase.

It or I could be wrong though... back to original tho...

So for me a vet 12 high elf, should I or should I not do seducer? And should I or not go with regen?

Cinnamon_Spider

It is both light and heavy attacks that do more damage. In a previous patch, it also used to say that it could be used at a larger difference, but it doesn't say that now.

Ezareth

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

It is both light and heavy attacks that do more damage. In a previous patch, it also used to say that it could be used at a larger difference, but it doesn't say that now.

Yeah it used to be 9>11>13>15 Damage, now it is 3,4,5,6 as of 1.6.

Even with a 300% magicka gain Boost, power is still the way to go.

Xeven

Was it 1.5 or 1.4 when we couldnt refresh hardened ward? I can't remember but thats when I started playing. I thought thats how it was supposed to be. DKs were still king of the hill. Sorc didn't suck ass but it was certainly not on anyones nerf radar like it is now. That's all I meant by that.

ToRelax

Xeven wrote: »

Was it 1.5 or 1.4 when we couldnt refresh hardened ward? I can't remember but thats when I started playing. I thought thats how it was supposed to be. DKs were still king of the hill.

That was up to 1.5. 1.6 introduced refreshable wards.

SmalltalkJava

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sorc in 1.5 wasn´t exactly great but we surely did not suck ass ._.

I needed over 300 cp in 1.6 to become stronger than my 1.5 build

I think Sorc in 1.5 was great, at least I never had any problems. Magicka DKs were the hardest to kill but they all died the same.

Everyone required at least a hundred or more CP in 1.6 to be as powerful as they were in 1.5 There was a ton of stealth nerfs to the game to both stats and several other factors that took CPs to bridge the gap.

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm no ones pocket healer

GET IN MAH POCKET!

Well i just hated the permablock everyone running S&B meta of 1.5. It was basically impossible to run destro staff for a solo sorc bc you needed doublereflect against every player. Maybe it was different on NA - but on the EU server every player would basically block backpeddal and heal until help arrived.

That´s one thing i strongly dislike about 2.1. Sword and board is becoming the offensive weaponset of choice for stam builds again. I think it should not be vaible for offense (with so much passive defense).

OK, i'm still a newb, but looking over the S&B stamina meta. I am just not seeing how it is better than DW or 2HD for offense. What does it offer that makes it a viable option?

Maulkin

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Sorc in 1.5 wasn´t exactly great but we surely did not suck ass ._.

I needed over 300 cp in 1.6 to become stronger than my 1.5 build

I think Sorc in 1.5 was great, at least I never had any problems. Magicka DKs were the hardest to kill but they all died the same.

Everyone required at least a hundred or more CP in 1.6 to be as powerful as they were in 1.5 There was a ton of stealth nerfs to the game to both stats and several other factors that took CPs to bridge the gap.

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm no ones pocket healer

GET IN MAH POCKET!

Well i just hated the permablock everyone running S&B meta of 1.5. It was basically impossible to run destro staff for a solo sorc bc you needed doublereflect against every player. Maybe it was different on NA - but on the EU server every player would basically block backpeddal and heal until help arrived.

That´s one thing i strongly dislike about 2.1. Sword and board is becoming the offensive weaponset of choice for stam builds again. I think it should not be vaible for offense (with so much passive defense).

OK, i'm still a newb, but looking over the S&B stamina meta. I am just not seeing how it is better than DW or 2HD for offense. What does it offer that makes it a viable option?

Animation cancelling bash

Ezareth

ToRelax wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Was it 1.5 or 1.4 when we couldnt refresh hardened ward? I can't remember but thats when I started playing. I thought thats how it was supposed to be. DKs were still king of the hill.

That was up to 1.5. 1.6 introduced refreshable wards.

Nah that was fixed in 1.5. The bug where damage shields being recast didn't refresh the values was fixed in 1.5, but at the same time they removed the Harness Magicka absorbing physical and having an unlimited damage return with 1.5 as well. (Before you could cast Harness Magicka, then Hardened ward and stand in Caltrops and go from 0 magicka to full magicka in a few seconds.

Makkir

twistedmonk wrote: »

very interesting...

so what should I use again?

The answer to that depends on with whom you want to get into argument.