Max Magicka vs. Spell Damage - Sorcerers

raasdal

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

Kas

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

it is remotely correct.

to the best of my knowledge, when 1.6 was on pts someone campe up with a factor of 10.45magicka <-> 1 spelldamage.
however, later someone else figured out that the scaling is actually different from skill to skill. in particular, some skills benefit more from magicka so that <10 mag will be equivalent to 1 sd.

finally, there are some skills (e.g. the light armor damage shield) that scale ONLY with magicka.

for pure pve dps, spellpower is the the best bonus you can get and 2 magicka boni are always better than one spellpower bonus.

pvp is far too complex for such a simple rule of thumb. however, i'd say with favor certainly moves towards magicka

Maulkin

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

10.46 was the conversion factor last time I checked but that was 4-5 months back.

As in 1 point of spell damage affects raw damage as much as 10.46 max magicka. If your numbers are close to that it means it hasn't changed.

That said you always need to take other factors into account when building for max damage. As a Sorc you get 2% extra spell damage for every Sorc skill on your bar (Expert Mage passive) and you are most likely to have your spell damage buffed by Power Surge or Entropy for another 20%.

For me that is 28% total, while my max magicka only benefits from my 10% High Elf passive. So if you want to compare two different setups you should compare tooltips when fully buffed.

LegendaryMage

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

10.46 was the conversion factor last time I checked but that was 4-5 months back.

As in 1 point of spell damage affects raw damage as much as 10.46 max magicka. If your numbers are close to that it means it hasn't changed.

That said you always need to take other factors into account when building for max damage. As a Sorc you get 2% extra spell damage for every Sorc skill on your bar (Expert Mage passive) and you are most likely to have your spell damage buffed by Power Surge or Entropy for another 20%.

For me that is 28% total, while my max magicka only benefits from my 10% High Elf passive. So if you want to compare two different setups you should compare tooltips when fully buffed.

In my opinion pushing both is important and my next build will incorporate some changes where I'm pushing both offense and defense to the max (I heard that shields benefit from hardy/elemental defender passives now), so things like max magica and spell damage will go way up, resistances will be decent and sustain will come from mag glyphs, atronach and 100 points into mag recovery. Just my 2 cents.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

10.46 was the conversion factor last time I checked but that was 4-5 months back.

As in 1 point of spell damage affects raw damage as much as 10.46 max magicka. If your numbers are close to that it means it hasn't changed.

That said you always need to take other factors into account when building for max damage. As a Sorc you get 2% extra spell damage for every Sorc skill on your bar (Expert Mage passive) and you are most likely to have your spell damage buffed by Power Surge or Entropy for another 20%.

For me that is 28% total, while my max magicka only benefits from my 10% High Elf passive. So if you want to compare two different setups you should compare tooltips when fully buffed.

Not true, CP also increase your magicka pool up to 33% extra (with 3600 CP). And you can get 6% from the undaunted passives.

Maulkin

r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

10.46 was the conversion factor last time I checked but that was 4-5 months back.

As in 1 point of spell damage affects raw damage as much as 10.46 max magicka. If your numbers are close to that it means it hasn't changed.

That said you always need to take other factors into account when building for max damage. As a Sorc you get 2% extra spell damage for every Sorc skill on your bar (Expert Mage passive) and you are most likely to have your spell damage buffed by Power Surge or Entropy for another 20%.

For me that is 28% total, while my max magicka only benefits from my 10% High Elf passive. So if you want to compare two different setups you should compare tooltips when fully buffed.

Not true, CP also increase your magicka pool up to 33% extra (with 3600 CP). And you can get 6% from the undaunted passives.

Yep, I stand corrected. Thought I would like to know more about the CP <-> Magicka pool association. Are you sure it's a percentage and is that percentage increase linear or diminishing?

Interested to see what the effect is from 501 CPs and if it's: 33% * 501/3600 = 4.5% or sth else.

LegendaryMage wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

10.46 was the conversion factor last time I checked but that was 4-5 months back.

As in 1 point of spell damage affects raw damage as much as 10.46 max magicka. If your numbers are close to that it means it hasn't changed.

That said you always need to take other factors into account when building for max damage. As a Sorc you get 2% extra spell damage for every Sorc skill on your bar (Expert Mage passive) and you are most likely to have your spell damage buffed by Power Surge or Entropy for another 20%.

For me that is 28% total, while my max magicka only benefits from my 10% High Elf passive. So if you want to compare two different setups you should compare tooltips when fully buffed.

In my opinion pushing both is important and my next build will incorporate some changes where I'm pushing both offense and defense to the max (I heard that shields benefit from hardy/elemental defender passives now), so things like max magica and spell damage will go way up, resistances will be decent and sustain will come from mag glyphs, atronach and 100 points into mag recovery. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, it's always been good to push your max magicka high as a Sorc, because of ward size.

I don't know what to make of elemental defender and hardy applying on shields. I mean it's not spell res mitigation, it's flat damage reduction, so logic dictates it shouldn't but I think if shield stacking is not addressed that is going to be kind of OP in the future. Because Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward stack is OP against magicka builds.

I'm saying "in the future" because with 501 CP cap that's 167 CPs on your red section. A minimum of 85-90 goes into Bastion for light armor builds relying on ward and you have <80 to spread among extra healing, damage reduction etc. So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/222615/guide-champion-system-extensive-write-up

Check the link in there. Haven't tested it myself, but what @crazmadsci did there sounds reasonable.

raasdal

Thanks for the replies.!

When i discovered this ratio, i was surprised that the only Max Magicka focused build i could find out there, was LegendaryMage (the recent video with V14 gear). Most of the other Twitcher only talk about how high Spell Power they can get. But i guess that would also be best for the Burst-build, whereas Magicka is best for sustain and defensive/allround builds.

Thanks for the advice on the buffs. Easy to forget both the 20% Regen bonus from Potions (which should be up 24/7) and the Spell Power bonus. Unfortunately i'm a Dark Elf, so i dont get that nice 10% max mag bonus the High Elves gets.

With me being relatively Poor (cannot afford to make all items gold/legendary etc.), and having only 3x30 CP, i cannot make a build that excels on all parts unfortunately. With a mix of V15/V14 gear (5xSeducer+3xHealer+3xWillpower) i am standing at something like 16k HP, 13K Stam and 34/35k Mag, 1500 Spell Power and 1500 Regen. Pretty mediocre on all parts really But with cost reduction glyphs and Seducer, i at least have some decent sustain.

Septimus_Magna

PVP: main focus max magicka because this increases dmg and shield value, secondary focus magicka regen.
PVE: stack spell dmg.

crazmadsci

Hey Guys! Thanks for the shout out @r.jan_emailb16_ESO. I did recently publish the values of CP and how much you spend increases your max magicka pool. If you did not click on the link let me go over it here.

Champion System the Mage:

The Graph can be found here: http://imgur.com/X3A3hqr

Equations:

1-100 CP
y=1.012x^0.5421
R^2=0.9997

100-1200 CP
y=8.487ln(x)-29.862
R^2=0.992

Yes there is a maximum of 33% grown in your magicka pool from spending Champion Points. This 33% does take into account gear, attribute, racial passives, set bonuses, mundus, etc. The Percent added from CP is calculated afterwards.

Spell Damage vs Max Magicka doing Damage:

@rassdal I actually was curious about this myself and have broken it down for the 1st ability on the templar class skills and 1st ability for destruction and restoration staff. By slowing increasing max magicka and spell damage separately I have graphed the growth.

Special Note: This includes 3 damage abilities and 2 healing

Max Magicka vs Damage Chart
http://imgur.com/ZsTOUZP

You will see that for all five abilities the trend for growth in damage is perfectly linear with Breath of life being the largest and Puncturing Sweep being the lowest.

Now lets look at spell damage


Spell Damage vs Damage Chat
http://imgur.com/ObzIFrR

Spell damage shows the exact same tend with in linear growth with again the slopes being Breath of Life > Vampire Bane > Destructive Clench > Healing Springs > Puncturing Sweep.

However the slope for these trends is on the order of a magnitude Higher (10 times).

Conclusion: Yes you can use the statement below which is accurate. However the magnitude of the damage with the 1000 max magicka vs 100 spell damage is different for each and every ability.

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;
In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power. /quote]

I am currently breaking it down for all skills to add to my Strategy guide website in the future and this is data I have yet to publish to the large scale community.

raasdal wrote: »

Most of the other Twitcher only talk about how high Spell Power they can get.

I disagree with this statement, I have personally been streaming ESO for about a Year now and can explain these concepts for you. The goal of my stream is to teach and help you play the way you want how you want. Come check me out

Twitch Name: Crazmadsci

Ezareth

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

10.46 was the conversion factor last time I checked but that was 4-5 months back.

As in 1 point of spell damage affects raw damage as much as 10.46 max magicka. If your numbers are close to that it means it hasn't changed.

That said you always need to take other factors into account when building for max damage. As a Sorc you get 2% extra spell damage for every Sorc skill on your bar (Expert Mage passive) and you are most likely to have your spell damage buffed by Power Surge or Entropy for another 20%.

For me that is 28% total, while my max magicka only benefits from my 10% High Elf passive. So if you want to compare two different setups you should compare tooltips when fully buffed.

Don't forget 3-6% Undaunted and 2% per mage guild ability as well.

Additionally I believe your magicka is increased by champion points based upon your base gear, enchants and attributes but not food. So increasing your base would increase the effectiveness of your champion points. I'd have to ask @soulac to be 100% sure as I still haven't spent the time to fully understand the champion point calculations.

Maulkin

@crazmadsci first off, hats off to you


Secondly, solving y=8.487ln(x)-29.862 for x= 167 (which is 1/3 of 501) gives 13.5.

So 13.5% percent from CPs, 6% from Undaunted Mettle, 10% from High Elf passive....

I'll have basically a 30% increase on my max magicka too! That's if they work additively and not mulitiplicatively in which case it'll be more O.O

You live and learn I guess

Ezareth

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, it's always been good to push your max magicka high as a Sorc, because of ward size.

I don't know what to make of elemental defender and hardy applying on shields. I mean it's not spell res mitigation, it's flat damage reduction, so logic dictates it shouldn't but I think if shield stacking is not addressed that is going to be kind of OP in the future. Because Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward stack is OP against magicka builds.

I'm saying "in the future" because with 501 CP cap that's 167 CPs on your red section. A minimum of 85-90 goes into Bastion for light armor builds relying on ward and you have <80 to spread among extra healing, damage reduction etc. So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

I wouldn't be too concerned with this.

The main issue with shield before was you had your base shield, it was increased by 33%(Hardened Ward), increased by 25% (max bastion) and then decreased by Battle Spirit (-15%)

So adding magicka to your build would increase your Hardened Ward shield size by 143% of the Hardened Ward shield size coefficient. And that value receives recieves the benefit of Hardy, Elemental and Thick skinned (some abilities are considered Dots that you wouldn't think were dots)

Now however the way the calculation works is you get the 33% and 25% bastion bonus but then *everything* is reduced by 50% so your hardened ward scaling is now .79 per coefficient point. This value still benefits from Hardy, Bastion and Thick skinned but don't forget it also has zero mitigation so it pretty much works out to what you'd expect from healing from a defensive standpoint.

Xeven

LegendaryMage wrote: »

(I heard that shields benefit from hardy/elemental defender passives now)

They always have, it's one of the first things I tested when the CS went live on PTS, It's just not been relevant until recently because Bastion was always most important.

Ezareth wrote: »

So increasing your base would increase the effectiveness of your champion points. I'd have to ask @soulac to be 100% sure as I still haven't spent the time to fully understand the champion point calculations.

This is correct.

In practice CF tooltip damage of a max magicka build is usually less than 1k away from CF tooltip damage of a max spell damage build, and you get so much more benefits from magicka.

Xeven

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

Why not? These are the next best stars to start working on after bastion for builds that heavily rely on shields.

zornyan

@crazmadsci

So by your calculations, it would be better to stack spell power as opposed to mag magika to obtain max dps out of puncturing sweeps?

Xeven

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, it's always been good to push your max magicka high as a Sorc, because of ward size.

I don't know what to make of elemental defender and hardy applying on shields. I mean it's not spell res mitigation, it's flat damage reduction, so logic dictates it shouldn't but I think if shield stacking is not addressed that is going to be kind of OP in the future. Because Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward stack is OP against magicka builds.

I'm saying "in the future" because with 501 CP cap that's 167 CPs on your red section. A minimum of 85-90 goes into Bastion for light armor builds relying on ward and you have <80 to spread among extra healing, damage reduction etc. So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

I should have read your whole post first my bad.

It is kind of OP even without shields when combined with battle spirit, which is why I was one of the loudest about the CP cap. Once you get ~900-1200 cp you are essentially taking -75% damage from everything before armor mitigation. It's insane, and it was breaking the game.

Maulkin

Xeven wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

Why not? These are the next best stars to start working on after bastion for builds that heavily rely on shields.

Well with the cap being 167 for your red tree and Bastion taking near 100 of that, it leaves you with 67 to spread between Quick Recovery (more heals), Elemental Defender and Hardy. There's just no enough CPs to invest heavily and notice any real difference.

Also with stamina builds having high crit chance and the Julianos set around the corner, Resistant (reduces crit damage) is also worth a shout. When my shields drop, it's crit damage that gets me 8/10 times.

But like I said, not enough CPs to invest is the main reason

Xeven

Yeah I'm sorry reading fail. Because the CP cap you're right, but all of my CP will be going into them along with bastion. 33-33-100

Ezareth

crazmadsci wrote: »

@crazmadsci Great writeup.

You have the right names for these images but the hyperlinks both point to the spelldamage chart.

For this intelligence to be actionable we really need to understand what choices we really have between Spell Damage and Magicka as they are not always mutually exclusive.

Then you have to calculate the bonuses you receive for each.

Source of *Base* Spell Damage:
Jewelry Enchants
Apprentice Mundus (And Divines Trait)
Set Bonuses
Molag Kena Proc
Weapons equipped

Spell Damage Multipliers (For Sorcs)
Major Sorcery (Spell Power Pot, Entropy/Degeneration, Crit Surge/Power Surge)
Expert Mage (2% per Sorc ability slotted)
Heavy Weapons (5% with 2hander equipped)

Sources of *Base* Magicka
Attribute Points
Armor Enchants (including Infused)
Mage Mundus (And Divines Trait)
Set Bonuses (Excluding 5Pc)
Weapon Enchant

Magicka Multipliers (For Sorcs)
Racial Bonuses 6-10%(Altmer, Bosmer, Dunmer)
Undaunted Passives 1-6%
Bound Armor 5%
Inner Light 5%
Necropotence/Destruction Mastery 5 Pc(6/12%)
Magica Controller (2% per mage guild ability slotted)

So as far as the choices you have between maxing one or the other there is only Set Bonuses and Mundus Stones to worry about. 5 Pc set bonuses are much trickier to compare since one is a base increase and the other is a multiplicative increase so I'll leave those out.

Set bonuses Provide 129 Spell damage at Legendary Vet16
Set bonuses Provided 967 Max at Legendary Vet16

On set bonuses you get 7.5 Magicka per every one Spell Damage

The Apprentice Mundus provides 166 Spell Damage
The Mage Mundus provides 1280 Magicka

On Mundus you get 7.71 Magicka for every Spell Damage you get.

So figure out the multipliers you would receive based upon your ability bar, weapons, attritbutes, and champion points, and then make a decision on whether you want to pursue Max magicka or max spell power. You can also decide to try to maximize both.(glass cannon)

Ezareth

Xeven wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, it's always been good to push your max magicka high as a Sorc, because of ward size.

I don't know what to make of elemental defender and hardy applying on shields. I mean it's not spell res mitigation, it's flat damage reduction, so logic dictates it shouldn't but I think if shield stacking is not addressed that is going to be kind of OP in the future. Because Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward stack is OP against magicka builds.

I'm saying "in the future" because with 501 CP cap that's 167 CPs on your red section. A minimum of 85-90 goes into Bastion for light armor builds relying on ward and you have <80 to spread among extra healing, damage reduction etc. So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

I should have read your whole post first my bad.

It is kind of OP even without shields when combined with battle spirit, which is why I was one of the loudest about the CP cap. Once you get ~900-1200 cp you are essentially taking -75% damage from everything before armor mitigation. It's insane, and it was breaking the game.

How do you get -75%? It would actually only be 62.5% except for few abilities that qualify as both magicka damage and a dot which would be -75% with 100 points into both Hardy and Thick skinned.

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, it's always been good to push your max magicka high as a Sorc, because of ward size.

I don't know what to make of elemental defender and hardy applying on shields. I mean it's not spell res mitigation, it's flat damage reduction, so logic dictates it shouldn't but I think if shield stacking is not addressed that is going to be kind of OP in the future. Because Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward stack is OP against magicka builds.

I'm saying "in the future" because with 501 CP cap that's 167 CPs on your red section. A minimum of 85-90 goes into Bastion for light armor builds relying on ward and you have <80 to spread among extra healing, damage reduction etc. So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

I should have read your whole post first my bad.

It is kind of OP even without shields when combined with battle spirit, which is why I was one of the loudest about the CP cap. Once you get ~900-1200 cp you are essentially taking -75% damage from everything before armor mitigation. It's insane, and it was breaking the game.

How do you get -75%? It would actually only be 62.5% except for few abilities that qualify as both magicka damage and a dot which would be -75% with 100 points into both Hardy and Thick skinned.

Isn't hardy -25%? Isn't battle spirit -50%? That's 75% before it even touches your armor!

raasdal

@Ezareth - thanks for that nice setup, makes it alot easier to get an overview ! ...

But whats the deal with CP and max magicka? As i recall there is no Star that provides max magicka? There is one for Regen though. Can anyone elaborate on the mentioned 33% increase through CP?

Xeven

raasdal wrote: »

@Ezareth - thanks for that nice setup, makes it alot easier to get an overview ! ...

But whats the deal with CP and max magicka? As i recall there is no Star that provides max magicka? There is one for Regen though. Can anyone elaborate on the mentioned 33% increase through CP?

Every point you spend on a blue star increases your magicka.

Ezareth

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, it's always been good to push your max magicka high as a Sorc, because of ward size.

I don't know what to make of elemental defender and hardy applying on shields. I mean it's not spell res mitigation, it's flat damage reduction, so logic dictates it shouldn't but I think if shield stacking is not addressed that is going to be kind of OP in the future. Because Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward stack is OP against magicka builds.

I'm saying "in the future" because with 501 CP cap that's 167 CPs on your red section. A minimum of 85-90 goes into Bastion for light armor builds relying on ward and you have <80 to spread among extra healing, damage reduction etc. So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

I should have read your whole post first my bad.

It is kind of OP even without shields when combined with battle spirit, which is why I was one of the loudest about the CP cap. Once you get ~900-1200 cp you are essentially taking -75% damage from everything before armor mitigation. It's insane, and it was breaking the game.

How do you get -75%? It would actually only be 62.5% except for few abilities that qualify as both magicka damage and a dot which would be -75% with 100 points into both Hardy and Thick skinned.

Isn't hardy -25%? Isn't battle spirit -50%? That's 75% before it even touches your armor!

They're not additive.

The 50% is applied after everything else.

You shield can absorb 100 Damage. With max Hardy it can absorb 125 Magicka damage.

In Cyrodiil it can only absorb 62.5 Magicka damage (although 100 magicka damage with 100 points into thaumaturge becomes 62.5 damage as well).

Ezareth

raasdal wrote: »

@Ezareth - thanks for that nice setup, makes it alot easier to get an overview ! ...

But whats the deal with CP and max magicka? As i recall there is no Star that provides max magicka? There is one for Regen though. Can anyone elaborate on the mentioned 33% increase through CP?

The calculation isn't very easy to understand if you're not a theorycrafter who loves to dig through formulas.

You can use this site: asolutionaday.com/calculators-index/ To calculate what your particular benefit would be.

Xeven

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Yeah, it's always been good to push your max magicka high as a Sorc, because of ward size.

I don't know what to make of elemental defender and hardy applying on shields. I mean it's not spell res mitigation, it's flat damage reduction, so logic dictates it shouldn't but I think if shield stacking is not addressed that is going to be kind of OP in the future. Because Harness Magicka and Hardened Ward stack is OP against magicka builds.

I'm saying "in the future" because with 501 CP cap that's 167 CPs on your red section. A minimum of 85-90 goes into Bastion for light armor builds relying on ward and you have <80 to spread among extra healing, damage reduction etc. So i wouldn't expect many sorcs to be heavily stacked into Hardy or Elemental Defender in the near future.

I should have read your whole post first my bad.

It is kind of OP even without shields when combined with battle spirit, which is why I was one of the loudest about the CP cap. Once you get ~900-1200 cp you are essentially taking -75% damage from everything before armor mitigation. It's insane, and it was breaking the game.

How do you get -75%? It would actually only be 62.5% except for few abilities that qualify as both magicka damage and a dot which would be -75% with 100 points into both Hardy and Thick skinned.

Isn't hardy -25%? Isn't battle spirit -50%? That's 75% before it even touches your armor!

They're not additive.

The 50% is applied after everything else.

You shield can absorb 100 Damage. With max Hardy it can absorb 125 Magicka damage.

In Cyrodiil it can only absorb 62.5 Magicka damage (although 100 magicka damage with 100 points into thaumaturge becomes 62.5 damage as well).

Understood, I thought they were additive. Thanks for the correction.

You get half of what Hardy says you get on the tooltip. That's still 62.5% before it even touches your armor, and that's still insane! There is no hardy star for physical damage.

I'm curious. Have you ever knowingly fought someone with 1200cp on your Sorc? How did it feel?

raasdal

Xeven wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

@Ezareth - thanks for that nice setup, makes it alot easier to get an overview ! ...

But whats the deal with CP and max magicka? As i recall there is no Star that provides max magicka? There is one for Regen though. Can anyone elaborate on the mentioned 33% increase through CP?

Every point you spend on a blue star increases your magicka.

Oh - i did not know that ! will check the difference next time. Will then assume same applies to Stam and Hp on the other two series on constellations.

Thanks!

Soulac

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Simple Question;

Does anyone know the conversion factor on damage increasing, if comparing Max Magicka vs. Spell Power.

In my own small scale testing, i have so far found that adding 1000 max magicka will give same damage increase as adding 100 spell power.

Can anyone confirm if this is remotely correct? And how much it might differ from skill to skill ?

10.46 was the conversion factor last time I checked but that was 4-5 months back.

As in 1 point of spell damage affects raw damage as much as 10.46 max magicka. If your numbers are close to that it means it hasn't changed.

That said you always need to take other factors into account when building for max damage. As a Sorc you get 2% extra spell damage for every Sorc skill on your bar (Expert Mage passive) and you are most likely to have your spell damage buffed by Power Surge or Entropy for another 20%.

For me that is 28% total, while my max magicka only benefits from my 10% High Elf passive. So if you want to compare two different setups you should compare tooltips when fully buffed.

Don't forget 3-6% Undaunted and 2% per mage guild ability as well.

Additionally I believe your magicka is increased by champion points based upon your base gear, enchants and attributes but not food. So increasing your base would increase the effectiveness of your champion points. I'd have to ask @soulac to be 100% sure as I still haven't spent the time to fully understand the champion point calculations.

Yap, Gear + Attributs + Base Value
Gear = Set Bonus AND Enchants

The champion system doesn´t give a damn about mundus, pvp health bonus and buff-food(bug) tho..

Xeven

Soulac wrote: »

The champion system doesn´t give a damn about mundus, pvp health bonus and buff-food(bug) tho..

crazmadsci wrote: »

Yes there is a maximum of 33% grown in your magicka pool from spending Champion Points. This 33% does take into account gear, attribute, racial passives, set bonuses, mundus, etc. The Percent added from CP is calculated afterwards.

One of you is incorrect about mundus but I don't know who. Or maybe you're both correct and tested different mundus stones.

NativeJoe

I've stacked mana for the past 6 months. just switched to spell power because of the poor damage and there are plenty of dps walls.

Simply put a spell power build has 3.7k-4.3 spell power. and 36-44k magic.
And a magic build has 1.6-2.6 spell power, and 44-54k magic.

I don't think the equations are correct. the gear for magic stackers just isn't there to make up for it, and over all ur not losing anything going spell power (with overload u basically have infinite magic anyway)

for pvp... I prefer the magic, but there simply isn't enough dps to kill certain people so be prepared with an escape option.

But the main point of stacking magic is nullfied really. the main point for a sorc to go magic is sustain (nullfied with overload) and pets (which are nullified by the terrible dps, lack of slots available to you after slotting them, terrible AI, and lack of supporting gear...(necropotence was the last set to offer bonuses towards having pets and its max level is vr12 and has been nerfed and renerfed several times)

People literally have sets to destroy us ( shield breaker) lol so going magic right now is TERRIBLE. take the 4-8 hit to your max mana and gain 1.6k spell power, more slots for abilities, and just better abilities. ( and in pve , my shields are still over 23.5k which is enough for 99.999% of things.)