Friendly reminder from your healer

Max2497

My guess is that most DD are wanting to increase their DPS since mobs and bosses are more difficult in IC and the vet 16 dungeons. In addition, spell power on most set bonuses was decreased. Health has been sacrificed in order for them to get their DPS numbers back up. We had the same problem in trials last night with too many people having health below 20k. With the harder content, DD need to be going for more protection and sustainability, not less. My solution is to simply not take them.

UltimaJoe777

DPS:



DPS: So I will survive!



Healer: Rest in pieces, DPS.

UrQuan

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

The minimum amount of health required for a DPS can be calculated by this simple formula:

minimum health = enough to prevent you from being one-shotted + enough to keep you alive after that until the healer's heals can take effect

For most DPS, as long as you're smart enough to block and/or dodge the really big hits, the magic number is probably in the 16-17K range, but it depends on a few factors.

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

Also what is up with so many vampire tanks lately? They take so much more damage in vWGT, they're squishier than the melee dps with low health, even when they hold block!

Actually, with the reduction in the flame weakness for vampires with the IC update, I've considered going vampire on my tank. In theory the Undeath passive (increase damage mitigation when below 50% health) could make it worthwhile. I don't think I will though - if I did I'd probably put at least one flame resist enchant on my jewelry.

Or you could just max out the Flame/Frost/Shock Resist Champion Passive to completely negate that 25% more fire damage.

True, but I'd probably still want at least some flame resist on my jewelry. After all, as a tank I want to take less flame damage than most people, not just have enough extra resistance to negate my extra damage

Preyfar

One of my chars is a fantastic healer. We recently went to go against Molag Kena (vet) on a helm run, and had to get a replacement tank. No problem. VR14 tanks comes, and we keep doing left and right. Finally, one of the DPS goes "Dude, why aren't you taunting?" and the tank responds "How do I taunt?"

I almost broke my resto staff in two and went "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

It's not just the DPS dying left and right. <___<

UrQuan

Preyfar wrote: »

One of my chars is a fantastic healer. We recently went to go against Molag Kena (vet) on a helm run, and had to get a replacement tank. No problem. VR14 tanks comes, and we keep doing left and right. Finally, one of the DPS goes "Dude, why aren't you taunting?" and the tank responds "How do I taunt?"

I almost broke my resto staff in two and went "Screw you guys, I'm going home."

It's not just the DPS dying left and right. <___<

*sigh*

This is one reason why I usually prefer to be the tank myself. Hasn't happened to me lately (probably because these days when I run a dungeon it's usually with guildies or fairly experienced folks who are friends with guildies), but at pre-vet levels I used to often end up in a PUG with a "tank" who was basically just a heavy armour DPS and didn't understand that you need taunts to hold aggro.

It's more understandable at pre-vet levels, though. Heck, as this is my first MMO, at one time in pre-vet levels I was that heavy armour DPS who didn't know you needed to use taunts (although even then I used Puncture - I just didn't understand that it was a taunt, and I was mostly using it because it seemed cool). A VR14 "tank" who doesn't know how to taunt though? How do you get to VR14 without knowing such a basic mechanic? Probably an example of someone who just grinded mobs to get to max level without bothering to learn how to play.

Scyantific

Not a problem for me I run strictly with guild mates who aren't monkeys.

Preyfar

UrQuan wrote: »

A VR14 "tank" who doesn't know how to taunt though? How do you get to VR14 without knowing such a basic mechanic? Probably an example of someone who just grinded mobs to get to max level without bothering to learn how to play.

Sometimes I think because there's no real tutorial for the taunt mechanic, and the various ability descriptions sometimes read like an engineer wrote them -vs- a person (see Phoenix or Resilient Yokeda armor set descriptions for examples). I can understand how it's easy to miss, but... again, how you ultimately make it to VR16 and not find out is another story.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

Not only is the OP right on the post, but why does it seem that many of these 'stand in the red geniuses' not carry either tripots or even normal healing potions? Just because there is a healer in the group doesn't mean that you are not ultimately responsible for your own health. I posted something like this last year and was told by another healer that they never have this problem on another MMO. *facepalm*

UltimaJoe777

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

Not only is the OP right on the post, but why does it seem that many of these 'stand in the red geniuses' not carry either tripots or even normal healing potions? Just because there is a healer in the group doesn't mean that you are not ultimately responsible for your own health. I posted something like this last year and was told by another healer that they never have this problem on another MMO. *facepalm*

Not to mention the healer doesn't have infinite resources so if his dry up and you're not able to heal yourself you're screwed.

dlepi24

This thread is on point, lol. I was in an argument with someone the other day talking about how good their DPS was and I asked how many points they had into health and they said "zero". A certain magicka sorc who is known for streaming PvP said, "points into health was useless." Apparently the sorc I was playing with didn't realize he doesn't get the 5k health buff while outside of cyrodiil. Needless to say he preceded to get one shot multiple times and after 5 times we just told him to leave the dungeon and either respec attributes or find another group. Thank you for this thread. Hopefully this changes a few people who are now doing PvE.

Robbmrp

[quote="Lord Xanhorn;221039"]Its not my fault that you get 1 shot cause you have 15k health in V16 vet dungeons cause you think its fun to have 3k spell power and absolutely no defense at all. Your glass cannon PVP build may wreck face in IC, but you are a serious problem when you want to run the daily pledge for your molag kena shoulders.

I have had this so much recently and admittedly its usually PUG dps but its still frustrating. Have 20k health or some crazy sorc damage shield you keep up or don't blame the healer's weak heals [/quote]

Exactly! If you don't have at least 17k health with a strong shield you will get a lot of one shots in any high Vet Dungeons. That's just a fact. If you choose to have 0 health points and only use a food buff, prepare to be one shotted on every Vet dungeon run.

Jitterbug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

Kuroinu

Real players play Tank and Healer. DPS are generally the most likely to derp around and complain because the other 2 roles are busy being more focused and just get on with it.

(No disrespect to any true DPS that understands the role of Tank and Healer and how to alleviate certain pressures from these roles.)

SirJesto

How about the DPS that said I was a horrible tank after he aggro-ed a group of mobs with caltrops and died to his spinning death..... Apparently I was supposed to quickly taunt those 5 or 6 monsters.....

Oh yeah, I couldn't be a good tank either because " I didn't even have Engine Guardian"

Hilarious.....

Scyantific

SirJesto wrote: »

How about the DPS that said I was a horrible tank after he aggro-ed a group of mobs with caltrops and died to his spinning death..... Apparently I was supposed to quickly taunt those 5 or 6 monsters.....

Oh yeah, I couldn't be a good tank either because " I didn't even have Engine Guardian"

Hilarious.....

Duh, he obviously expected you to have that new IC set that applies an AoE taunt when using a charge ability.

Victus

When I play my DPS I will always try to have some sustain/utility to help out when things are bad. If I die I usually feel it's my fault and not the healer's anyway.

Of course I could also be filled with self-loathing...

Gerardopg

I only have like 16 k health but I almost run with the same guys and i have hardened ward all the time up, I really not understand how the dps want to run with out shields or anything a single shield can save your life and you lost more damage in the time they have you Rez you than in the time you apply a ward

DisgracefulMind

eliisra wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

16.5-18k is typical health for a good dps.

What annoys me more is all the stamplars stealing my repents that i use in my heal rotation in trash.

Yes, it's annoying. Especially because most stampugplars will keep spamming it automatically and casually, not timing it for the right part of the pulls. Corpse management please!

While 16.5-18k health is prefect in a coordinated group with correct dps spec's, beastly tank, reactive healer and TS, it's hardly the same thing as joining a pug with 15k health. Amount of players that can rock 15k health in a messy pug and do well, it's like 0.01% of the ESO population lol. Rest will *** up.

These guys always seem to use some copy paste SypherPK PvP spec but with wrong morphs, drinks over food and more or less force you to heal spam from start to finish, loosing loads of dps. Nightmare for a healer.

That's my whole problem, is them not timing it. Ran with one today and he just spammed it instead of dpsing the trash pulls. Made me cringe. xD

I do agree completely with the health thing. I usually tell them to put entropy on their bar if they're too low. And if they argue, I leave. But I rarely run in pug groups these days. Only when I want an adventure xD

SirJesto

Scyantific wrote: »

SirJesto wrote: »

How about the DPS that said I was a horrible tank after he aggro-ed a group of mobs with caltrops and died to his spinning death..... Apparently I was supposed to quickly taunt those 5 or 6 monsters.....

Oh yeah, I couldn't be a good tank either because " I didn't even have Engine Guardian"

Hilarious.....

Duh, he obviously expected you to have that new IC set that applies an AoE taunt when using a charge ability.

lol yeah would be nice, but this happened before the IC patch.

SirJesto

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Real players play Tank and Healer. DPS are generally the most likely to derp around and complain because the other 2 roles are busy being more focused and just get on with it.

(No disrespect to any true DPS that understands the role of Tank and Healer and how to alleviate certain pressures from these roles.)

Loveit.

UrQuan

Gerardopg wrote: »

I only have like 16 k health but I almost run with the same guys and i have hardened ward all the time up, I really not understand how the dps want to run with out shields or anything a single shield can save your life and you lost more damage in the time they have you Rez you than in the time you apply a ward

See that's the thing that some DPS don't understand - you can afford to run with low health if you make up for it with shields but not if you don't. I've seen people successfully run vet dungeons with as little as 14K health, but they used a lot of shields.

Grunim

Oh and when I'm the healer and you are that glass cannon non-shield using vampire DPS who doesn't have 20k health, at least make sure your armor is repaired before you go into a V16 dungeon with fire attacking mobs.

No wonder I prefer solo PvE more than group PvE.

angelyn

Well I don't rate myself as a great player , but this has made me feel like "atleast I know some things " I don't play tank, but even I know that you need to use the taunt skills ( I think there's 2 of em?).

Playing as a dps I'd never step into a dungeon without 20k health , armour repaired and my own health/tri pots. And if I did, I'd never blame the healer for me getting 1 shotted. I know that some are skilled enough to run such low health if they keep their sheild up, but I know my personal limits

Since IC hit I've been timidly venturing into PVP. I look at PVP builds and I think "where is the health? ". This might be viewed as some as "not worth putting anything into" but I've found that I still need a decent amount of health say if you want to tackle the giant eyeball/ mama clannfear strolling in the IC districts. I know that those builds work well when concentrating on killing other players..but probably not for killing much else ( atleast in the hands of an average Joe player).

I have found that I need different gear and even different morphs of the same skills when trying out PVP , coming from PVE. It would be great if ZOS gave us the option to have a PVP spec and a PVE spec.. it might help a bit, but probably not stop people blaming the healers. I never blame/shout at anyone in a group, because I'm a softie and they have to put up with my zombiefied reaction times. ( Not like the ones in 28 days later..more like zombies related to snails )

Gerardopg

Actually healers and tanks have a very hard job, for the dps is a little easier, at least with my team, tank have to keep Agro keep timers, and save everyone ass, healer have to do damage but no so much because you have to time the shards for the tank and heal the dps, so multiple timers agains, dps we just have to avoid damage the much as we can and deal damage, tanks to the tanks and healers for take care of us

LordSemaj

Never much liked DPS.

DPS - Don't stand in the fire, kill the adds.

Healer - Don't stand in the fire, run away when the adds start chasing you because of your healing aggro, resurrect that dead dumb guy, manage your resources and cooldowns because if you go dry we're all boned.

Tank - Don't stand in the fire, taunt the adds as fast as they show up, pull adds off of the stupid DPS attacking the wrong mob, keep checking your timers to know when each and every single mob needs more attention, sacrifice yourself if necessary to save the healer, drag the boss all over the stage to where he's supposed to be standing for each phase, know the fight better than anyone so you can pop defenses and/or block boss attacks when they're needed most, keep an eye on your OWN health so you know when to turtle up.

Never much liked playing as though I were asleep at the keyboard.

Nifty2g

20k health isn't necessary, that said if you want to run low health be aware of the steel tornados that one shot, but it shouldn't be a problem really its only on trash that it happens.

Back in 1.6 when we didn't have PvP buffs Gilliam was running 14.5k health in VDSA

SirJesto

Gerardopg wrote: »

Actually healers and tanks have a very hard job, for the dps is a little easier, at least with my team, tank have to keep Agro keep timers, and save everyone ass, healer have to do damage but no so much because you have to time the shards for the tank and heal the dps, so multiple timers agains, dps we just have to avoid damage the much as we can and deal damage, tanks to the tanks and healers for take care of us

It's nice to hear this once in a while. You're welcome and THANK YOU!

PBpsy

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Real players play Tank and Healer. DPS are generally the most likely to derp around and complain because the other 2 roles are busy being more focused and just get on with it.

(No disrespect to any true DPS that understands the role of Tank and Healer and how to alleviate certain pressures from these roles.)

I have played this game as max rank DK tank ,Temp Heals ,and Magicka NB dps(main). Although what you say is true in most games it is not quite true in this game. The DPS role in TESO is the most stressful role in the game in my opinion mostly due to quite a bit of performance anxiety associated with. The heal and tank role have qualitative performance indicators i.e the group stays alive. The DPS can be quantified very well. you get a number for your DPS and for certain bosses , strategies and burns you need to have that number be at least something otherwise that strat will simply not work. In this game 95% of the time it is the damn dps fault.

There is a certain feel for the battles when you play DPS. You feel that there is a disturbance in the force when your or the group DPS is just not right. Nothing is quite as annoying then realizing that you just can't pull the DPS for something. It happened to me recently when trying the new vet dungeons and pretty much made me go chill out healing on my templar. That DPS awareness is helpful when healing PUGs though you know when the dps has problems and when to push your dps a bit to compensate at the expense of healing reliability. I had many situations when things seemed kind of hopeless but worked out when I just pushed the DPS a bit.

SirJesto

PBpsy wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Real players play Tank and Healer. DPS are generally the most likely to derp around and complain because the other 2 roles are busy being more focused and just get on with it.

(No disrespect to any true DPS that understands the role of Tank and Healer and how to alleviate certain pressures from these roles.)

I have played this game as max rank DK tank ,Temp Heals ,and Magicka NB dps(main). Although what you say is true in most games it is not quite true in this game. The DPS role in TESO is the most stressful role in the game in my opinion mostly due to quite a bit of performance anxiety associated with. The heal and tank role have qualitative performance indicators i.e the group stays alive. The DPS can be quantified very well. you get a number for your DPS and for certain bosses , strategies and burns you need to have that number be at least something otherwise that strat will simply not work. In this game 95% of the time it is the damn dps fault.

There is a certain feel for the battles when you play DPS. You feel that there is a disturbance in the force when your or the group DPS is just not right. Nothing is quite as annoying then realizing that you just can't pull the DPS for something. It happened to me recently when trying the new vet dungeons and pretty much made me go chill out healing on my templar. That DPS awareness is helpful when healing PUGs though you know when the dps has problems and when to push your dps a bit to compensate at the expense of healing reliability. I had many situations when things seemed kind of hopeless but worked out when I just pushed the DPS a bit.

I respectfully disagree that DPS is the most stressful role in this game. I've seen WAY more tanks and healers singled out for poor performance than DPS. (though admittedly it does happen).

Dredlord

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

16.5-18k is typical health for a good dps.

What annoys me more is all the stamplars stealing my repents that i use in my heal rotation in trash.

Where as you should be letting him manage his stam and using a different heal in your rotation in that case.