You guys broke tanks....

i3ig_Gun

I love this game, and will be playing it a while ZOS, keep up the great work.


That being said... I'm very upset that you decided to remove the stamina regen from tanks who are holding their shields up...

How do you think we can single tank "The Mage" axes??? We used to be able to just stand there forever and hold those axes. Now even with my 30k+ stamina, and VR16 legendary shield-play enchantments it’s almost impossible for me to hold 3. I have to employ 2 other tanks in the group to hold one axe each while I handle 2, leaving my group with even less DPS to take the mage and her reflections down, forcing my Templars to keep shard spamming at every chance they get to keep our stamina topped off...

You guys should either rework that stamina regen mechanic, or change up some boss mechanics, because it’s going to get awfully expensive for me to keep downing VR15 Stamina Potions every time the CD is up.

(BTW we got The Mage down, but it took several attempts and change ups, when we used to be able to complete it in ~30 mins.)

Am I the only dedicated Tank who thinks they broke us?!

Our one and only job is to keep our allies alive by keeping the enemies facing us, and ZOS decided we need to find a better way to do this, than stacking stamina, and stamina regen, then taunting, and holding the shield up...

Waffennacht

After reading your post I'm thinking that's what they were shooting for. I've seen and experience what you are talking about... however, you did complete it, you did successfully tanked it, and from what I understand, if you had not as many tanks as you did you would not have succeeded.

This tells me: One that tanks were necessary to finish the dungeon and two they were capable (even though it was so many tanks)

From what I can tell, most dungeons are set up to benefit different group make ups. Your example of a tank heavy necessary dungeon, while some dungeons need a pure dps group.

SleepyTroll

ZOS only did this because they don't know how to fix block casting.

Scyantific

They also can't figure out how just apply these changes to Cyrodiil and not everywhere else.

Battle Spirit must have been a thing of Divine Intervention.

notimetocare

Scyantific wrote: »

They also can't figure out how just apply these changes to Cyrodiil and not everywhere else.

Battle Spirit must have been a thing of Divine Intervention.

I have enjoyed tanking more now that I'm not sitting and mindlessly spamming taunt and skills. Focusing on doing what I need to correctly instead of sitting with block 24/7 and spamming buttons.

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

I love satire

i3ig_Gun

notimetocare wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

They also can't figure out how just apply these changes to Cyrodiil and not everywhere else.

Battle Spirit must have been a thing of Divine Intervention.

I have enjoyed tanking more now that I'm not sitting and mindlessly spamming taunt and skills. Focusing on doing what I need to correctly instead of sitting with block 24/7 and spamming buttons.

You've obviously never tanked any trial, the first boss in SO, the last bosses in AA and HRC all require your tanks to almost never drop your shield. Doing so will result in your death, I'm Physical and Spell resistance capped with plenty of champion points and over 30k health and will get 1 shot If I dont keep my shield up in those trials.

Malik Battle-Born

I main a Tank infact I have 3 tanks and I have no problem tanking trials. I manage to keep aggro and keep my stamina about 40% most of the time if I am concentrating. People need to understand this is what real tanking is not the tanking it has been in the past where you can just stand there hold block and win. In fact I barely notice a difference with tanking. If anyone has any questions about my tanking build or how to tank feel free to send me a message on here or in game on EU server @Tommypsycho

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

winterbornb14_ESO

I love how in game a few "Pro's" have decided that everyone else has to L2Tank.

This was a sloppy Nerf that pissed off the majority of their customer base because they could not fix their PvP issue for the minority.
This should have never effected the PvE player base and they know it or they don't want customers.

i3ig_Gun

Malik Battle-Born wrote: »

I main a Tank infact I have 3 tanks and I have no problem tanking trials. I manage to keep aggro and keep my stamina about 40% most of the time if I am concentrating. People need to understand this is what real tanking is not the tanking it has been in the past where you can just stand there hold block and win. In fact I barely notice a difference with tanking. If anyone has any questions about my tanking build or how to tank feel free to send me a message on here or in game on EU server @Tommypsycho

No one's QQing, Im doing fine as a tank, after appropriate adjustments, just saying they are making it even harder for us.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

i3ig_Gun

winterbornb14_ESO wrote: »

I love how in game a few "Pro's" have decided that everyone else has to L2Tank.

This was a sloppy Nerf that pissed off the majority of their customer base because they could not fix their PvP issue for the minority.
This should have never effected the PvE player base and they know it or they don't want customers.

100% agree

Malik Battle-Born

tyler_spearsb14_ESO wrote: »

Malik Battle-Born wrote: »

I main a Tank infact I have 3 tanks and I have no problem tanking trials. I manage to keep aggro and keep my stamina about 40% most of the time if I am concentrating. People need to understand this is what real tanking is not the tanking it has been in the past where you can just stand there hold block and win. In fact I barely notice a difference with tanking. If anyone has any questions about my tanking build or how to tank feel free to send me a message on here or in game on EU server @Tommypsycho

No one's QQing, Im doing fine as a tank, after appropriate adjustments, just saying they are making it even harder for us.

So you would rather everything was made easy mode? Tanking before this "nerf" was boring and dull it was not tanking. In fact tanking before this was just someone who has a lot of health and resistances doing damage with no real skill. At least with is no stam regen it brings a challenge to learning how to tank and resource management. I don't understand why people want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Tanking is fine this patch nothing wrong with it just people expecting to be a Damage Dealer while tanking like previous patch. If you want to be a DD it is simple role a DD. But tanking in this patch is much more interesting than it was previously

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

i3ig_Gun

Ive been tanking since Beta bro, dont tell me... i KNOW how it all played out

Malik Battle-Born

But if you are struggling with only 3 axes on mage I don't get. I am currently do a run of AA (Weekly) We did a normal run no deaths no problems. Now we are doing a run of hard AA which I have done before I will record and you can see what I am confused by tanks not being able to tank.

i3ig_Gun

You don't get it, and you wont, because everyone who was playing a tank before the patch knows...

Hold your Shield up to block the power attack, let it down (EVEN WITH CAPPED PHYSICAL AND SPELL RESISTANCE) you get hurt bad causing your healers to work overtime. Shards going out constantly, saving ultimates for times you cant use a potion or shard. and still having to call out to your healers, im out of stamina (all 30k of it) I need you to heal me through this knock down.

What other abilities do you need?

Peirce Armor, Obsidian Shield, Unstoppable, Green Dragons Blood, and Defensive Posture.

Thats what I roll with, and in essence is all you need, a tuant, a shield, a defensive booster, a heal and a block buff/cost reduction.

At least for most PVE content, pvp is a whole nother bar.

Malik Battle-Born

I was playing tank since the start of this game. There is nothing wrong with this tanking in this patch. (Video incoming)

KingShocker

I know there is probably allot of l33t tanks out there who are gonna respond to this with a "l2p" response but the truth is this nerf hit the game hard. And it seems the only place you can find these "leet" tanks is in the forums and almost never in game. Everyone probably knows how long the wait to find a tank to do the pledges is (yea I got some good tanks in my guilds but the ratio of good tanks to everyone else is like 1-30 and they only can run so many times before getting burnt out). I'm getting geared up to start tanking so I can get into these pledges ALLOT faster but it's not a role I was wanting to play.

And if you get tanks most of the time they die allot and say "healer isn't dropping enough shards" or "healer isn't a Templar"

it's like perma blocking is still the answer for tanking but instead of turning to stam regen tanks now rely on shards or repentance or their earthen heart abilities.

and it's like block casters in pvp are unfazed even though I thought pvp was the main reason the nerfed block casting.

I dunno, the whole game just feels wonky now

Dober

As much as I understood the Nerfed, it was bc all the guys crying on PvP bc they could not brake true the Tank. Well I belive the problem is the lack of a Block Breaker! That was the first thing (as a Original DPS) I checked! How do you Block Break? You can't? Hmm I wonder how this works for PvP!

So I see the Problem in a lack of a Block Breaker and not bc of Stam Regen!

paulsimonps

I have had no problems tanking all the axes in AA nor had any problems tanking multiple Daedroths in Banished Cell vet or ghosts Crypts of Heart vet. Its is a L2P issue no matter what you might want to say. If you don't look outside the box and find new solutions to your problems you won't be able to do it, you can't play the same way you did in with the old system in this update. My suggestion, since you said you had so much max stamina, make sure that your team gives you as many synergies as possible to use, using a synergy with the undaunted passive will give you 4% of your max stamina back and a templar shard will give you 25%, using potions at the appropriate time will also help. Make sure that when they are up in your face to use the melee taunt since its so much cheaper than the ranged taunt and to apply it as seldom as possible while keeping agro. Not sure what class you are but if you are a DK then using an earthen heart ability will give you another 5% of your max stamina back so using that will also help, DK's also get resources back from using ulties, I would suggest Aggressive warhorn to up your groups dps and your resources, since warhorn is a high cost ulti it will give you 50% of all your resources back when used. Find what works for you.

Malik Battle-Born

paulsimonps wrote: »

I have had no problems tanking all the axes in AA nor had any problems tanking multiple Daedroths in Banished Cell vet or ghosts Crypts of Heart vet. Its is a L2P issue no matter what you might want to say. If you don't look outside the box and find new solutions to your problems you won't be able to do it, you can't play the same way you did in with the old system in this update. My suggestion, since you said you had so much max stamina, make sure that your team gives you as many synergies as possible to use, using a synergy with the undaunted passive will give you 4% of your max stamina back and a templar shard will give you 25%, using potions at the appropriate time will also help. Make sure that when they are up in your face to use the melee taunt since its so much cheaper than the ranged taunt and to apply it as seldom as possible while keeping agro. Not sure what class you are but if you are a DK then using an earthen heart ability will give you another 5% of your max stamina back so using that will also help, DK's also get resources back from using ulties, I would suggest Aggressive warhorn to up your groups dps and your resources, since warhorn is a high cost ulti it will give you 50% of all your resources back when used. Find what works for you.

Finally someone who makes sense. Thank you very much

i3ig_Gun

I know how to play my tank dude.

It was an official nerf, and apparent to all tanks.

I shouldn't have to rely on my healers full attention and dedication to send me shards and heals.

I've always been a self-sufficiant tank, and have had no problems in the past.

draeganb16_ESO

@tyler_spearsb14_ESO : You keep telling that you know how to tank, you obviously don't have any problem then. You should stop complaining.

By the way, another tips that haven't been said : To gain precious stamina, use Heavy attacks as often as possible.

i3ig_Gun

@draeganb16_ESO : You're not understanding the impact its had.

Im NOT the only one who feels that they have burned tanks with this stamina nerf.

and I'm an EXCEPTIONAL Tank, you can ask ANYONE whos ran with me, or view the leaderboards on Xbox to see me and my guild in the top 10.

RinOkumara

L2P

Jennifur_Vultee

tyler_spearsb14_ESO wrote: »

I know how to play my tank dude.

It was an official nerf, and apparent to all tanks.

I shouldn't have to rely on my healers full attention and dedication to send me shards and heals.

I've always been a self-sufficiant tank, and have had no problems in the past.

I used to love playing my dragonknight tank but now I feel more like a burden on the group much of the time.
These days I feel more like this...

Malik Battle-Born

tyler_spearsb14_ESO wrote: »

@draeganb16_ESO : You're not understanding the impact its had.

Im NOT the only one who feels that they have burned tanks with this stamina nerf.

and I'm an EXCEPTIONAL Tank, you can ask ANYONE whos ran with me, or view the leaderboards on Xbox to see me and my guild in the top 10.

Is in top 10 but still thinks tanks can't tank?

bigereard

I always play a tank in every MMO and always play as tanky as possible in every other game.
In ESO I build 3 tank, for me, for my blocking tank it's no problem so far.

I read many post about stamina regen while blocking.

What I gain is:
1) Most people think blocking is the only way to tank
2) Most people is agree it's still possible to tank hardest part of the game as blocking tank even without regen while blocking, even without a lot of investment to stamina, as long as we have good support in our team. (doable)
3) Most people is agree we can still do many things as blocking tank like CC, DPS, etc, as long as we have good support in our team. (as fun as before)
4) Most templar healer/support we know is have shard and repentance.

So, if we still can do what we do before, what's the problem?
5) Most people that hate this change is complain about the self sufficient.

---

So my conclusion is:
1) Supportive templar is rare (supportive is not always a healer)
Fortunately I have many friends that have supportive build, but mainly for small team PvP. They don't think they'll needed in PvE.
2) It is toll the team so much if 1 precious slot of team is for supportive templar.
3) Most other templar build is so well planned, so if they sacrifice 1 slot of supportive skill and execute it once in a while, it will ruin their entire build.
4) Templar it's self is rare?

I come to those conclusion because, if the reason about so much complain is, only pride to not depend in other people in an MMORPG, then MMO is clearly not for them. We have a choice to play other TES game. We can be naked immortal mighty god in that game, no need depend on other people.
We must understand that people have different way of having fun and we invent different tools to satisfied that needs.
You want to do sport but don't like to associated with other 10 player, then don't do football, you can always go swimming, running, or other solo sport.

I think ESO itself is already less team oriented than many other MMO.
ZoS need to release a new PvE content that requires a lot of large scale teamwork and tactics.

---

Last, don't get me wrong, I don't think no stamina regen while blocking is smart change. It's not fixed the real problem of not having a content for a dedicated tank & dedicated team & dedicated PvE guild.
The only good think about the change is templar become generally needed in a team.
I think we need a change that make the other classes also become a necessity.

paulsimonps

At first I wanted to be helpful but then....

Sensesfail13

Tanking is viable in this patch but it sucks, horribly. Its not fun. Anybody that says there isnt something wrong with tanking in the patch didnt do a damn thing while tanking other than block and stare before this patch so obviously their playstyle didnt change because it still sucks.

Personofsecrets

Sorry OP. It is a tough nerf to deal with. Possibly the toughest part is that it was shoved down our throats despite numerous people not wanting it. Thank streamers and Richard Lambert (who had to have the consolation of his family to go ahead with the nerf).

Personofsecrets

bigereard wrote: »

1) Most people think blocking is the only way to tank
2) Most people is agree it's still possible to tank hardest part of the game as blocking tank even without regen while blocking, even without a lot of investment to stamina, as long as we have good support in our team. (doable)
3) Most people is agree we can still do many things as blocking tank like CC, DPS, etc, as long as we have good support in our team. (as fun as before)
4) Most templar healer/support we know is have shard and repentance.

So, if we still can do what we do before, what's the problem?
5) Most people that hate this change is complain about the self sufficient.

While I agree with your points, the idea that people can do what they did before is incorrect. This nerf is certainly noticeable and 'doing what was done before' should instead read 'doing what was done before after jumping through a bunch of hoops,' but that doesn't exactly place the nerf in a good light, does it?