Don't Hard Cap CP points ZOS

TalonShina

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

First, they need to add a non-CP campaign, let players try it and then see where the PvP community's opinion lies afterwards.

Second, I do agree with a catch-up mechanic being implemented; however, that mechanic cannot allow a newer player, or a player who has not dedicated the time to catch up to a player who has been in-game longer OR has dedicated more time to their CP trees.

Third, the first CP cap needs to be a large one. We are 6+ months into the CP system already. When the cap is added, there is a need to not make the cap underwhelming. It will drive players away. No reason that players should be punished for having played the game.

All I see the forums focused on lately is making it so that new players get handouts. What about loyal players that have been here for a long time and have invested the time and energy into all aspects of this game. Why should we get pushed away?

I agree

TalonShina

coolermh wrote: »

People who lose will always find something to complain about or blame... once cp gets nerfed it will be some other thing to wine about until it gets nerfed. The good players will continue to find a way to win while the winners will find another reason to wine about why they lost or its unfair... Cycle of the game.

I agree

TalonShina

BuggeX wrote: »

TalonShina wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Just remove the damn things from PvP and I couldn't care less what you did with them.

Exactly I don't think the issue is PVE I think for PVE they are fine. From observation the issue is with the hardcore or PVP only crowd and I think a campaign no CPs is the way to solve it maybe even make all the campaigns CP free instead of just a few

so wath about leaderbords in PVE?

I already addressed that above
I'll repost that suggestion: For trials we are going to have to agree to disagree. however maybe there could be trial campaigns like pvp campaigns so that you can have different levels.

100-500 CP campaign
501-1000 campaign etc. and a no CP campaign that way the leaderboards remain fair since trials are 12 mans I think this would work

TalonShina

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

The mechanic of CP is supposed to already have a built in soft cap but the people at ZOS don't understand diminishing returns.

The max strength of a skill line should have been 10% rather than 25%, and the first point should have offered 1% and the last .001%. This would have made the power curve a lot more manageable.

I agree with this

TalonShina

Jeckll wrote: »

TalonShina wrote: »

PS: to say I have limited experience while yes is true it's also a lame argument if you can read you clearly can see the issue with the CP you don't have them to know who wants a HARD CAP that doesn't progress till the next DLC. As someone above you said the system isn't broke it's people's views because THEY MUST BE THE TOP instantly

That's why I even bothered writing you back. See, there are tons of threads about that topic from people far more experienced but I wrote in this specific thread BECAUSE you only know from reading what others say and didnt make own experiences.

See, if you read something in the forums about 2 different opinions, you eventually have to stick to one side in case you cant verify/test/experience it for yourself.

You happend to stick to the side that doesnt share my opinion and while I value "the other side of the coin" in any conversation, I just wanted to show you my perspective as a long time PvE competitor.
If you think CP should stay in PvE or not is your choice. There are pros and cons for any "side". I think I made my point and nowhere did I say or imply your opinion is less meaningful because you are less experienced.

But reading about a topic and being involved is not the same, to be perfectly honest.

But i addressed the trial leader board issue.
For trials we are going to have to agree to disagree. however maybe there could be trial campaigns like pvp campaigns so that you can have different levels.

100-500 CP campaign
501-1000 campaign etc. and a no CP campaign that way the leaderboards remain fair since trials are 12 mans I think this would work

Why wouldn't this work? The trials could even scale for not only level but CP to make them harder if your group has a higher average. It would keep the leader boards fair and give you even more to work towards.

Xeven

This is what diminishing returns looks like.



This is what the current Champion System actually looks like.



There really are no diminishing returns.

Sausage

Thats what Ive said too, on-going progression is much better. Well, seasonal cap and reset after each season is one good possibility too, that would be most hassle free for devs, and when new season start new players get fair start too, vets would probably need some advantage for new season though, like 50% faster CP gain.

Jeckll

TalonShina wrote: »

however maybe there could be trial campaigns like pvp campaigns so that you can have different levels.

How is this solution easier, more accessable or in general better than just make a cap, which works for everything. I think it's either a cap that is established for Trials and PvP or disable CP in these content types entirely.

Also, there were very few guilds that were doing Sanctum Ophidia. Like REALLY few. If you seperate them into different campaigns, we would literally have 1-3 guilds in every campaign. Not so challenging or fun...

phbell

My understanding was that the CP system was a reward for "playtime". The more one plays, the more CP one gets. Accelerated CP is also a benefit of being a subscriber. In other words it is a "customer rewards program".

So now because a few newer customers are unhappy ZOS is going to cap CP? That may prove to be a Customer Reduction Program. Businesses that cater to the vocal few tend to find them as their only customer.

I am hoping that Zenimax puts the programing resources into fixing the game performance issues rather than nerving yet another feature.

Xeven

Because we should reward all the scrubs in their mothers basement with 25% more regen and damage on top of -25% skill cost and damage taken, because they can kill NPCs all day with EXP pots.

Lol get rekt.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Xeven wrote: »

Because we should reward all the scrubs in their mothers basement with 25% more regen and damage on top of -25% skill cost and damage taken, because they can kill NPCs all day with EXP pots.

Lol get rekt.

Lol. Yeah this fallacy that "the best" players have the most Cham points is complete guar dung. The system to earn points wasn't designed intelligently enough so that it rewarded excellence. I don't think it could be. Farming crackhead cave 24/7 does not make you a champion.

AfkNinja

Get rid of CP altogether. If I am wearing the same armor as another person only SKILL should determine the victor. Not CP ground out over the last year.

cyx54tc

JD2013 wrote: »

Why should everyone be equal is my question? Why are people so angry about being beaten in PVP?

same reason why people are complaining about pay to win players

AlphaCrucis

Yep totally agree, but that's the risk i have to take when entering Cyrodil. When i come in with my 13 CP & come across someone like yourself with 500 CP & you smash me I'll just respwn & get over it. Next time i see someone that is v4 or higher I'll try to avoid them.

I just think if people are concerned about having low CP then spend some time to build them up

TalonShina

AlphaCrucis wrote: »

Yep totally agree, but that's the risk i have to take when entering Cyrodil. When i come in with my 13 CP & come across someone like yourself with 500 CP & you smash me I'll just respwn & get over it. Next time i see someone that is v4 or higher I'll try to avoid them.

I just think if people are concerned about having low CP then spend some time to build them up

I agree with you

Xeven

TalonShina wrote: »

AlphaCrucis wrote: »

Yep totally agree, but that's the risk i have to take when entering Cyrodil. When i come in with my 13 CP & come across someone like yourself with 500 CP & you smash me I'll just respwn & get over it. Next time i see someone that is v4 or higher I'll try to avoid them.

I just think if people are concerned about having low CP then spend some time to build them up

I agree with you

Of coarse you do, sweetheart.

Alucardo

AlphaCrucis wrote: »

Yep totally agree, but that's the risk i have to take when entering Cyrodil. When i come in with my 13 CP & come across someone like yourself with 500 CP & you smash me I'll just respwn & get over it. Next time i see someone that is v4 or higher I'll try to avoid them.

I just think if people are concerned about having low CP then spend some time to build them up

So you're basically saying that CPs matter to the point where you'd avoid someone with a lot of them? That in itself says there is a problem with the Champion Point system. If you have skill you should be able to go into a fight confidently, not avoid someone because they have more champion points than you.
Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate why this system is completely stupid.

neueregel

I have 375 CPs and get killed often... especially in gankville now... quit the whining...

TalonShina

The Cp system isn't perfect of course but I don't think a hard cap needs to be made. A re-evaluation of the system is in need capping it they way it seems like they are leaning towards won't solve the issue

1. if you can still gain CP and not use it until the next cap raise people will still grind it out and spend all points instantly and likely again have an advantage.

2. Is Cp causing issues sure I can agree there but I think there are other ways around the issues other than hard capping the way they are saying

Xeven

TalonShina wrote: »

capping it they way it seems like they are leaning towards won't solve the issue

Of course it will. It works exactly the same way as the VR cap. If there was no cap on VR, you would have vr1400 players right now.

Guess what? Everyone who was vr14 is vr16 shortly after the patch, and everyone is on the same playing field, barring CP.

Alucardo

TalonShina wrote: »

The Cp system isn't perfect of course but I don't think a hard cap needs to be made. A re-evaluation of the system is in need capping it they way it seems like they are leaning towards won't solve the issue

1. if you can still gain CP and not use it until the next cap raise people will still grind it out and spend all points instantly and likely again have an advantage.

2. Is Cp causing issues sure I can agree there but I think there are other ways around the issues other than hard capping the way they are saying

It won't solve the issue, because the CP system remains in place. It will help stop people exceeding ridiculous amounts of points however. That possibility alone scares the crap out of me. I spend a lot of time in BWB, but I feel like I'm being forced to grind for CPs to catch up with people who obviously have a lot more than me. This is another reason I find the whole CP thing flawed - You can't just PVP and have fun any more. So I have to leave my team mates in BWB while I go grind my multiple vets to farm CPs. I have a stack of them now, but am I happy about it? No.
BWB has become a playground for Vets, completely obliterating newer people entering Cyrodiil. The question they always ask me after their first fight with vets, "How do I get out of here?".
Now, I can't see ZOS removing it, so the next best solution is caps and CP catch-ups.

Divinius

You know what ZOS really needs to do?

Make Champion Rank visible on all players. Seriously! Right after the level indicator next to the player's name, show the number of CP they have.

The vast majority of the complaint threads would cease, when people start to realize that, most of the time, it's not a CP difference that's killing them.

I'm not saying that CP doesn't have an effect. Sure it does. I'm just saying that I would bet a week's pay that very few of the people complaining that they are getting killed by players with "way more CP" than them, are actually being killed due to a CP difference.

Right now, someone with 250 CP is getting his face handed to him by another player. That person is going to come on these forums and complain about how this other player with "over 9000" CP just roflstomped him, and that "it isn't fair!"

But, if that person was able to actually see that the guy that wrecked him really only had 100 CP, maybe he'd keep his mouth shut and instead try to figure out why he sucks.

a.skelton92

I think the hard cap is stupid aswell.. I am yet to get past even 40 CP's but why the *** people want a ceiling on progression I will never understand.. As long as the cap is like 1000 or something.. If you all want to be equal, bugger off back to whatever FPS you came from.

Seriously, anyone who has blatantly spent more time playing than you SHOULD have more CPs. Why wouldnt they? Why should someone thats played continuously and commited more time, be equal to some guy that only logs in once a week. Even in life people, that do 'x' more frequently will be better at it than those that do not do it as often. Why should it be any different in a game.

Whats with this illogical sense of entitlement nowadays?

TalonShina

a.skelton92 wrote: »

I think the hard cap is stupid aswell.. I am yet to get past even 40 CP's but why the *** people want a ceiling on progression I will never understand.. As long as the cap is like 1000 or something.. If you all want to be equal, bugger off back to whatever FPS you came from.

Seriously, anyone who has blatantly spent more time playing than you SHOULD have more CPs. Why wouldnt they? Why should someone thats played continuously and commited more time, be equal to some guy that only logs in once a week. Even in life people, that do 'x' more frequently will be better at it than those that do not do it as often. Why should it be any different in a game.

Whats with this illogical sense of entitlement nowadays?

That was all i was saying and I tried to present ways to fix the issue without a hard cap but because I haven't played end game my point is invalid. I like what the person above you said about the CP # being posted next to someone's level.

I really think there are ways to disable or make even playing fields for those who want it without punishing those who have played the game longer and maybe even grinded out Cps (If someone wants to grind 12hours to gain massive Cps everyday let them grind)

But now now that I agreed with you I'll get met with "of course you agree sweetie" because you share a view like mine and I disagree with a hard cap.

I think ZOS really needs to take a hard look at things just slapping a band-aid hard cap isn't going to fix the issue
especially if one can continue to gain them just not spend them

For those saying it would provide a catch up look at this way

you have 100 CP person X has 500 CP the Cap is 500
they can't gain you can you get 300 CP in the cap period so now you have 400
person X has continued their same grind and have 300 CP banked

CP Cap raise you have 400 and now they have 800 because they spend all 300 banked instantly now there is a 400 point gap again.

Okay this might not be exactly logical but a cap isn't going to stop the grinders from grinding and still holding their advantage
The only way a hard cap works if once a person reaches the cap they gain nothing more until the next cap and then that would *** off those people and they would come here and say there is no progression and nothing for them to do.

mcurley

For people who want to play competitively but have actual real life responsibilities the CP system is complete garbage. This applies to both PvE and PvP. Having a progression based system is fine and it gets people to play the game more/longer but there should be a reasonable limit to the advantages of having tons of CP over having only a few CP.

Shadesofkin

I'm anti-hard cap. I always will be. I stopped trying to explain the reason back when caps were first suggested (before CP even went live).

Xeven

mcurley wrote: »

For people who want to play competitively but have actual real life responsibilities the CP system is complete garbage. This applies to both PvE and PvP. Having a progression based system is fine and it gets people to play the game more/longer but there should be a reasonable limit to the advantages of having tons of CP over having only a few CP.

Exactly. It's no different than a VR cap. You have to cap it somewhere, or you will have vr rank nine thousands running around like, "why you mad bro"?

I find it funny that the CP rank 40's are supporting no cap. They are so naive.

Shadesofkin

Lord Xanhorn wrote: »

The mechanic of CP is supposed to already have a built in soft cap but the people at ZOS don't understand diminishing returns.

The max strength of a skill line should have been 10% rather than 25%, and the first point should have offered 1% and the last .001%. This would have made the power curve a lot more manageable.

And this was specifically brought up in PTS.
I defend CP, probably always will, because I think it's a fine way to reward committed game time, but this is the solution, not a cap.

RatedChaotic

I only have 130 cp. I die and I do my share of killin. I like the current system. I hope it stays.

Situation awareness people. I see alot of people just running into the enemy not even thinking theres 20 vs 5. They die and complain about cps.

Or its the nonvets being upfront thinking they can take on a group of v16s. They die and complain about cps

Its not the cps that are the problem. Its the idiots that dont think before they act. They die and complain about cps.

I guess the 300 had thousands of cps. They died and wished they had more cps.

nimander99

You know, a daily cap would have been the smartest thing but that ship has sailed.

O.P I agree with you argument but you are going up against a vast player base of gimme gimme I have ta be teh elitest NOW people, there just isnt any reasoning or logical arguments u can use and its why "old" content in mmo's is generally skipped by the dev's themselves after a few years.

@ZOS_RichLambert has already said that a campaign which disables Champion Points is in the works. Below is my question to him about that very issue cut and paste from my message log... hope this looks ok.

Edit: Uggg terrible

nimander99 September 26
Hey /lurk if you are reading this and it's the weekend, take a break buddy... but if it's Monday then I have a simple question.

Why won't you just create a campaign that disables CP's? Instead of capping or changing major functions/systems of the game?

This seems the more elegant solution, as opposed to the collateral damage from really getting invasive.
ZOS_RichLambert
ZOS_RichLambert September 26
We are. Wheeler already announced that awhile ago.