Don't Hard Cap CP points ZOS

TalonShina

I know a lot of people have complained about both the CP and the Vet levels for as long as I have been playing (which is about 3 or 4 months)

I finally (I am indecisive and building takes me a while) have a character i am proud of. I tweaked her yesterday but I am still proud of how she is coming out. I am now really excited to hit the Vet levels and join my husband who hit V 16 last night on his Sorc.

I don't think there needs to be a catch up mechanic for CP why should I be able to easily catch up to my husband (or anyone) who has been in the Vet ranks longer than I have.

1. CPs need a SOFT CAP not a HARD CAP make it so you can only get between 25-100 (A large spread because I don't know what is reasonable for one day w/out grinding) but don't limit it to something like okay you can only have 1000 CP till the next DLC. That will drive people away.

2. Keep the Vet Levels but maybe don't increase it anyone leave it at V16 and add more passives and maybe even actives to the CP system to keep the progression moving forward along with new content that's harder.

3. Create a PVP that is open to both Vet Player and Non Vet Players that disables your CP (including any possible active skills that may one day be gained from CP) Make two of these one that has no IC locks and one that does (like the newly released campaign)

I have three characters a level 31, a 43, and a 46(my main) I could have easily been V16 likely or at least in the Vet ranks if I just played through a character i wasn't really feeling anymore. I chose to start over multiple times because I wanted my character to fit exactly how I wanted to play. Like I said above i did just make tweaks to her build and am even happier with that decision.

I don't understand why so many feel the need to complain about needing to catch up or I can't kill this person it must mean they have over 1000K CP.
Also maybe the Emperor system needs to be reworked so that it can't provide that massive boost that it did to the resource pools. Maybe there is a different way to reward Emperor's through some sort of rewards system instead of passives that make them massively powerful. However that being said I think they should have those resource pools when in PVP zones because they should be hard to take down and it should take a group of people working together to take the Emperor down.

They IC dungeons are instanced so CP should activate in those but the Emperor buffs should deactivate.

I think this is a better solution then scrapping the systems completely.

H3Li0S

Says the guy who have alot of CP. Cant make everyone happy with changes. They are aiming for the majority, not the minority.

H3Li0S

Why not just increase xp need to gain cp when player reach soft cap and decrease xp needed to gain a cp based on how many player (%) that have reached the soft cap. I might not be very inteligent but that sounds like a very good idea that shouldnt be too hard to implement.

Alucardo

TalonShina wrote: »

I don't think there needs to be a catch up mechanic for CP why should I be able to easily catch up to my husband (or anyone) who has been in the Vet ranks longer than I have.

So that people who can't no life ESO can still enjoy it without being overpowered by opponents with huge amounts of CPs. In the end there was only ever going to be two viable options to this horrendous Champion Point system:

- Play catch up
- Remove this monstrosity altogether

I took a couple of weeks off work, so that gave me a chance to play a fair bit. I earned a significant amount of CPs during that time, because I had no other things to attend to. But now that has come to a halt. There are people on ESO that live that way - they no life the game, and in return, they are rewarded with a lot of CPs. If you remove the hard cap, these people will be even further ahead by insane amounts.
Basically, the Champion Point system is a stupid, overly controversial abomination. Would have been better if you unlocked a new skill tree once you hit vet with just a few passives - nothing huge. That way it's locked to your character and can't be used in non-vet campaigns, it's less complex and everyone has a chance of filling up the tree no matter how much time you spend in-game.

Jeckll

TalonShina wrote: »

why should I be able to easily catch up to my husband (or anyone) who has been in the Vet ranks longer than I have.

Because it's fair
Because your husband should be superior because of his larger knowledge and experience with the game instead of relying on a stats based advantage
Because otherwise, no competitve player will EVER start ESO again as they can't catch up to play with the big boys

I do have way above average CP but surely there are many ppl that even have more and I personally dont want to have all my achievements in Game reduced to "thats because you have a ton of CP".

I dont mind CP while leveing, doing Dungeons and such. But in PvP and compentitve Trial Leaderboards (in case we'll ever see a new one again), we should all have to possibility to compete on equal ground.

It's like you're doing sports and 1 team is on steroids. It's maybe especially brutal in ESO because all encounters can be made WAAAAY easier with a ton of DPS. Strategy only plays a role in low DPS groups and the best groups have tons of CP and therefor tons of DPS.

Itoq

H3Li0S wrote: »

They are aiming for the majority, not the minority.

The CP system is designed for the minority. The minority was supposed to get ahead. The majority was supposed to see this and start buying exp potions like candy to catch up.

ZOS knew that this system would alienate many players. They just thought that the income from exp potions would be greater than the loss of income from players permanently leaving.

Apparently sales of Crown Store exp potions are not what they expected so some tweaking to get the carrot a bit closer is in order. Many players are not happy with being jerked around tho' and that carrot is probably going to have to be pretty darn close.

JD2013

Why should everyone be equal is my question? Why are people so angry about being beaten in PVP?

Vangy

@JD2013 because the basis of any competition should be based on skill and expertise... Precisely why we don't allow steroids in the Olympics which is akin to CP in eso. Also I wouldn't mind a no cp campiagn. If they implement this I couldn't care less what they do to cp.

Jeckll

JD2013 wrote: »

Why should everyone be equal is my question? Why are people so angry about being beaten in PVP?

Because we like to compare our skill when playing games and not compare who spend more times killing goblins.

One reason this is also frustration is because it's incredibly easy to do.

If you compare that to a RTS like Starcraft, how would you feel when your opponent gets more Resources than you at the start of the game, just because he played the game longer than you.

And the guy didnt even have to be successful at playing Starcraft to get the headstart...he just had to do a super simple task (Grinding is not challenging, but it's the most rewarding thing in ESO atm)

JD2013

Vangy wrote: »

@JD2013 because the basis of any competition should be based on skill and expertise... Precisely why we don't allow steroids in the Olympics which is akin to CP in eso. Also I wouldn't mind a no cp campiagn. If they implement this I couldn't care less what they do to cp.

Yes, but the whole point of playing an MMO is vertical progression. Your character gets stronger as you play. Be it with levels or something else.

Go and play any MMO that has been out for a while. You will have to level to be as strong as other people who have been playing a long time.

Also, Champion Points were introduced thanks to the community (IE the small group of vocal people) who did not like vet levels. Should ZoS go and design yet another system that players will ultimately hate?

And they have stated that they are working on a CP free campaign.

sadownik

JD2013 wrote: »

Why should everyone be equal is my question? Why are people so angry about being beaten in PVP?

You are kidding right? You forgot to put /s there didnt you? Beaten in PvP is a norm, nothing strange to that. Getting constantly beaten not because you are unskilled is irritating but getting to max lvl and getting some decent gear is managable. Getting 300 cps which number now seems to be an average on pc it seems is a different story. Grinding to 300 cp till your nose bleeds just to find out that those you were catching up to have now 500 cps is another.

If you dont see how that system ruins pvp for any new player then i wish you best of luck and have nothing more to say.

TalonShina

@JD2013 I agree with you that's why I made the post and I honestly can't believe how many people complain about this. I play for me. Yes I like grouping and being in guilds and even like some PVP from time to time. I hate being ganked but I move on from it. I might yell at my computer but i do that when fighting NPCs too so whatever. I play to have and progress I don't think it should be handed to me because someone is more powerful

TalonShina

H3Li0S wrote: »

Says the guy who have alot of CP. Cant make everyone happy with changes. They are aiming for the majority, not the minority.

Can I ask where you got I have a ton of CP I have no CP I haven't ever reached the Vet Levels?
Also did anyone read the post. it wasn't just about "catch up" but how to possibly solve the issue. Although if they have already said they are working on a CP free campaign then I say issue solved.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Just remove the damn things from PvP and I couldn't care less what you did with them.

Noerknhar

TalonShina wrote: »

I have three characters a level 31, a 43, and a 46(my main)...

So you have no idea what you are talking about because you have never experienced end game?

TalonShina

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Just remove the damn things from PvP and I couldn't care less what you did with them.

Exactly I don't think the issue is PVE I think for PVE they are fine. From observation the issue is with the hardcore or PVP only crowd and I think a campaign no CPs is the way to solve it maybe even make all the campaigns CP free instead of just a few

Jeckll

TalonShina wrote: »

I play for me.

That's the whole point why you dont mind CP AND why I dont get why you are posting about a topic you will never have issues with.

If you dont play to compete, it's obvious that you dont mind. But why do you mind if other people that want to compete are aiming for equal opportunities. It will never bother you if someone has 1k CP...so why do you mind if CP are caped for PvP and Trials?

Tan9oSuccka

I don't think they need to change anything, other than make a non-CP PvP mode.

TalonShina

Jeckll wrote: »

TalonShina wrote: »

I play for me.

That's the whole point why you dont mind CP AND why I dont get why you are posting about a topic you will never have issues with.

If you dont play to compete, it's obvious that you dont mind. But why do you mind if other people that want to compete are aiming for equal opportunities. It will never bother you if someone has 1k CP...so why do you mind if CP are caped for PvP and Trials?

But why can't we just disable them in PVP for those that want to compete? If you want to compete in PVE what are you competing for? I find having a guild I can accomplish things with great and I try not to mess with groups that are going to require a CP level to compete. I have always found a well organized group of proper level works better then those trying to zerg something.

TalonShina

To say i don't want to compete is totally wrong.
I just don't think it's fair for me to easily become as powerful as someone who has been at it longer.

AlphaCrucis

They should just keep the CP system the way it is, if it ain't broke don't fix it! If people want to work hard & put the time & effort into building their character i say good on them, it seems to me these are the people that love the game & are in it for the long hall. It's not even hard to gain CP anyways, I've only just hit v2 & already have 13, that's just from doing quests & no grinding

Jeckll

TalonShina wrote: »

If you want to compete in PVE what are you competing for?

ATM, not much but before Update 7, we were competing for Leaderboard positions in Trials. ZOS confirmed they are working on new trials which means we will eventually have competitive PvE again.

Again, as I stated in my initial posting, I dont mind CP while leveling, farming, doing normal dungeons. But in PvP and Trials, where people compete vs each other, there has to be a cap or CP have to be disabled.

I dont mind you making the arguments but with your limited experience about end game issues in ESO, I'm just trying to explain that ESO does have competition in PvE as well. So just making a PvP Campaign without CP will not cut it.

TalonShina

Jeckll wrote: »

TalonShina wrote: »

If you want to compete in PVE what are you competing for?

ATM, not much but before Update 7, we were competing for Leaderboard positions in Trials. ZOS confirmed they are working on new trials which means we will eventually have competitive PvE again.

Again, as I stated in my initial posting, I dont mind CP while leveling, farming, doing normal dungeons. But in PvP and Trials, where people compete vs each other, there has to be a cap or CP have to be disabled.

I dont mind you making the arguments but with your limited experience about end game issues in ESO, I'm just trying to explain that ESO does have competition in PvE as well. So just making a PvP Campaign without CP will not cut it.

For trials we are going to have to agree to disagree. however maybe there could be trial campaigns like pvp campaigns so that you can have different levels.

100-500 CP campaign
501-1000 campaign etc. and a no CP campaign that way the leaderboards remain fair since trials are 12 mans I think this would work

And i am competitive and all about it but i think there needs to be realistic views about it and most of the people asking for the system to go away aren't being realistic they are just saying "but...he's more powerful because of CPs"

PS: to say I have limited experience while yes is true it's also a lame argument if you can read you clearly can see the issue with the CP you don't have them to know who wants a HARD CAP that doesn't progress till the next DLC. As someone above you said the system isn't broke it's people's views because THEY MUST BE THE TOP instantly

TalonShina

AlphaCrucis wrote: »

They should just keep the CP system the way it is, if it ain't broke don't fix it! If people want to work hard & put the time & effort into building their character i say good on them, it seems to me these are the people that love the game & are in it for the long hall. It's not even hard to gain CP anyways, I've only just hit v2 & already have 13, that's just from doing quests & no grinding

^^THIS

eliisra

AlphaCrucis wrote: »

They should just keep the CP system the way it is, if it ain't broke don't fix it! If people want to work hard & put the time & effort into building their character i say good on them, it seems to me these are the people that love the game & are in it for the long hall. It's not even hard to gain CP anyways, I've only just hit v2 & already have 13, that's just from doing quests & no grinding

But it's broken, therefore they're applying fixes.

When you come there with your 13 CP in PvP and I'm closing on one 500 CP, who do you think is going to win without even breaking a sweat?

Who do you think will be picked in a PvE groups?

CP should be about specializing your character into different roles and playstyles, not about gaining a massive advantage over new, casual and returning players. Some disparity or imbalance is cool and unavoidable. Like in any MMO, playing the game should make you stronger. But this right now is way to much. We really need a catch up system for players like you sitting on 13 CP, with no chance of ever playing on equal terms.

When it comes to the cap, hopefully they wont rob to many players of their progression and hard work. That would be a disaster. Why I rather see a generous catch up system, than a cap to low.

Jeckll

TalonShina wrote: »

PS: to say I have limited experience while yes is true it's also a lame argument if you can read you clearly can see the issue with the CP you don't have them to know who wants a HARD CAP that doesn't progress till the next DLC. As someone above you said the system isn't broke it's people's views because THEY MUST BE THE TOP instantly

That's why I even bothered writing you back. See, there are tons of threads about that topic from people far more experienced but I wrote in this specific thread BECAUSE you only know from reading what others say and didnt make own experiences.

See, if you read something in the forums about 2 different opinions, you eventually have to stick to one side in case you cant verify/test/experience it for yourself.

You happend to stick to the side that doesnt share my opinion and while I value "the other side of the coin" in any conversation, I just wanted to show you my perspective as a long time PvE competitor.
If you think CP should stay in PvE or not is your choice. There are pros and cons for any "side". I think I made my point and nowhere did I say or imply your opinion is less meaningful because you are less experienced.

But reading about a topic and being involved is not the same, to be perfectly honest.

BuggeX

TalonShina wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Just remove the damn things from PvP and I couldn't care less what you did with them.

Exactly I don't think the issue is PVE I think for PVE they are fine. From observation the issue is with the hardcore or PVP only crowd and I think a campaign no CPs is the way to solve it maybe even make all the campaigns CP free instead of just a few

so wath about leaderbords in PVE?

Lord Xanhorn

The mechanic of CP is supposed to already have a built in soft cap but the people at ZOS don't understand diminishing returns.

The max strength of a skill line should have been 10% rather than 25%, and the first point should have offered 1% and the last .001%. This would have made the power curve a lot more manageable.

Jar_Ek

The issues caused by cp are:

PvP becomes imbalanced between different cp level characters, this extends through non vet campaigns. In addition this difference can be expanded in a way that gear and levels cannot - there is no method to even out this imbalance which there would be with a cap (or a decent catch up mechanism)

Future content will have to be designed for the cp system.. which means it will be wildly different in terms of difficulty between high and low cp. High cp will thus be able to immediately farm more cp and better gear. Low cp will have a hard time and fall further behind.

Cp promotes a few gameplay styles and penalises everything else (ie promotes grinding), which unfairly benefits the hard-core grinder... and hits PvP ers and casuals and crafters and rpers and dungeon players and questers and...


Although a no cp campaign will help with one issue (pvp) it won't address the pve issues (including competitive pve) - only a cap and catch up mechanism will do anything there. And a soft cap won't cut it, unless that soft cap is extremely harsh - in which case it may as well be a hard cap - or it is tied to the gap in some way (ie do to earn a cp is multipled by a factor related to you cp compared to the current cp gap between you and the mean cp).

DisgracefulMind

First, they need to add a non-CP campaign, let players try it and then see where the PvP community's opinion lies afterwards.

Second, I do agree with a catch-up mechanic being implemented; however, that mechanic cannot allow a newer player, or a player who has not dedicated the time to catch up to a player who has been in-game longer OR has dedicated more time to their CP trees.

Third, the first CP cap needs to be a large one. We are 6+ months into the CP system already. When the cap is added, there is a need to not make the cap underwhelming. It will drive players away. No reason that players should be punished for having played the game.

All I see the forums focused on lately is making it so that new players get handouts. What about loyal players that have been here for a long time and have invested the time and energy into all aspects of this game. Why should we get pushed away?

coolermh

People who lose will always find something to complain about or blame... once cp gets nerfed it will be some other thing to wine about until it gets nerfed. The good players will continue to find a way to win while the winners will find another reason to wine about why they lost or its unfair... Cycle of the game.