How do you 1v1/X Stam Sorc (without 600CP)?

Cathexis

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades. I just got in a fight with a templar that I hit with poison arrow at half health, wrecking blow x7, including knocking him on his ass twice, and he turned around, puncturing sweeps twice and I'm dead.

XvX I do phenomenally well, wreck house hard. No problems there. Its so strange to me that the difference is so huge.

Can anyone give me any advise on how to up my game in 1v1/X

thelordoffelines

Grind till you get 600 cp.

MisterBigglesworth

Cathexis wrote: »

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades.

What are magicka nightblades killing you with?

Cathexis

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades.

What are magicka nightblades killing you with?

Op cloak spam, yes I am running counters.

Cathexis

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Grind till you get 600 cp.

lol >< fword cp system worst thing that ever happened to this game.

ItsRejectz

Said this countless times, people need to stop watching deltias PvP builds. Most of the time they are completely useless and rely on been in a zerg ( sorry, organised group )

If you are wanting tips for PvP, watch PvP streamers who use stam sorc like fengrush & king Richard

GilGalad

Cathexis wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades.

What are magicka nightblades killing you with?

Op cloak spam, yes I am running counters.

Haven't seen anyone dying from cloak so far!

You have tried going dual wield/2H?
With steel tornado on you bar cloaking NBs should be no problem at all. if you tried @Deltia 's build and failed he might be able to help you. In my opinion it lacks a real selfheal especially in 1:1 situations. If you have mobs around you get the full heal from crit surge, but if you run against players it gets reduced cause you dmg gets reduced. You could try to replace surge with vigor on the DW bar and replace executioner with rally. In PVP there isn't a need for an execute most of the time. You could use flying blade as execute (dual wield passive).

Against tanks you could try to take your greater storm attronach instead of the negate magic. It's one of the best single target ultimates and drains a lot of stamina. Caltrops or rune prison (disorient through block followed by a wrecking blow) would also be an option if you can make space for it.

Morphing bolt escape to ball of lightning would be another option to get some defense (stuns only at the starting location but for 2s instead of 1.5s, streak deals close to 0 dmg on a stam build anyways). Use this skill if you have someone in front of you charging a wrecking blow or biting jabs/puncturing sweep. Then turn around -> crit Rush -> Wrecking blow.

Make sure to run disease enchants on your 2h and on one 1h for the healing debut proc, so the Templars don't heal back to full in 2s.

I hope this helps a bit.

Jitterbug

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Said this countless times, people need to stop watching deltias PvP builds. Most of the time they are completely useless and rely on been in a zerg ( sorry, organised group )

If you are wanting tips for PvP, watch PvP streamers who use stam sorc like fengrush & king Richard

Yeah sadly a lot of Deltia's stuff is "how to do well with only 11 legendary BiS and 600 cp".
In my experience the way to being (somewhat) succesful as a stam sorc in PvP is not using a lot of sorc skills.
Tbh the only ones I have found useful post 1.7 are Boundless Storm (or the other morph) and Streak.

I run:
2H = Rally, Executioner, Crit Rush, Streak, Thundering Presence / Ulti: Flawless Dawnbreaker
Bow = Magnum Shot, Poison Injection, Shuffle, Resolving Vigor, Efficient Purge / Ulti: Clouding Swarm.
For gear I use 5 piece Ravaging (I know it's too low level now) and 5 piece Hunding's Rage. I am Bosmer.
edit: oh, and, yeah - I have like 130ish cp.




I don't dominate anything (at all), but I can survive most of the time and even get a guy down from time to time.

Ganj

Cathexis wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Grind till you get 600 cp.

lol >< fword cp system worst thing that ever happened to this game.

Sadly this game is not skill friendly as much as it should be. Not against stam sorcerers only you need champion points for almost every 1vs1 to win it. Also you need gear and proper build too yes but the champion system has biggest impact which is kinda disappointing. There are possibilities that you can beat an opponent who has 800+ cp too but only if he is really really unskilled.

Jar_Ek

I have had some success with Werewolf in 1v1 or 1vX as a stamina sorcerer, but no success vs magicka nb. Det pots just don't last, and prebuffs die after about 30s...

Jbugz97

you said you used deltias build and keep dying in 1v1 ? you do know deltias is a pve guy right.

in pvp world any built that you copy from someone else your most likely going to fail. my advise is play a lot and build a toon to your play style. and you would perform much better then any build you copy.

Wollust

Jbugz97 wrote: »

you said you used deltias build and keep dying in 1v1 ? you do know deltias is a pve guy right.

in pvp world any built that you copy from someone else your most likely going to fail. my advise is play a lot and build a toon to your play style. and you would perform much better then any build you copy.

Copying a build is a very good first step for someone starting the game/class. From there on you can develop your own playstyle and start to experiment with different build ideas corresponding to your style. People saying copying is bad are a joke. As if they never ever looked something up from another player. And even if its your guildies. Copying is not bad. It is completely reasonable, which is why I never had any problems with sharing any of my builds.

But. I wouldn't recommend copying Deltias build. Neither for PVP nor PVE. He might have a huge fanbase for whatsoever reason, but he is not more than an average dude with a loud mouth.
There is better players around sharing their builds.
For stamina sorc I'd recommend watching Fengrushs videos.
And actually, the stamina builds are pretty similiar for every class. Or let's say they work similiar on every class. Obviously with adaption to skills but still.

And the thing with the 1v1 and 1vX comes with practice. If you only ever play in group against other groups, you do not learn as much as if you just go and duel people. Dueling is the best way to learn your class and to learn enemy behaviour. Which then helps you improve your 1vX play. But it's not a fast way to learn. It needs practice and patience

Ahzek

1st off crit surge is a great skill on my opinion, if you have the magicka regen to use it with other mafügicka skills at least. While it is nothing to rely on, just keeping the buff up 24/7 can allow you to put on pressure on opponents, withouth having to fall back for healing.

2nd i wholeheartedly recommend the "scourge harvester" undaunted monster set. Especially against templars (jabs) and DKs (dots) or crushy users it does wonders.

twistedmonk

first person to die to a magic NB from what I heard...

Erock25

Cathexis wrote: »

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades. I just got in a fight with a templar that I hit with poison arrow at half health, wrecking blow x7, including knocking him on his ass twice, and he turned around, puncturing sweeps twice and I'm dead.

XvX I do phenomenally well, wreck house hard. No problems there. Its so strange to me that the difference is so huge.

Can anyone give me any advise on how to up my game in 1v1/X

I run two variants of the same build depending on what I am doing in PVP and have some success. I've won some 1vX encounters but there are certainly PVE focused people out there in IC that just don't know what they're doing. Verses two or more competent players, it really depends how they built their characters and their strategy to the fight.

Skill bar is

2h - Crit Charge, Restraining Prison, Executioner, Streak, Crit Surge and Meteor
1h&s - Ransack, Reverberating Bash, Efficient Purge (Caltrops), Thundering Presence, Vigor and Greater Storm Atro

I'm either in full heavy (5 Willows Path, 5 Ravager, 2 Night Silence on 1h&s) or five medium and two heavy (5 Powerful Assault replacing the 5 Willows). I usually use Purge while using heavy set up and Caltrops if using Powerful Assault for my skill bar selection. Restraining Prison is also sort of a flex slot and I regularly put Shuffle in there while using my Powerful Assault set up. I really wanted to make this a vampire to take advantage of my Khajit Stealthy passive, but with drinks and all my passive buffs, my HP regen is too good to nerf it.

My main damage is medium attack -> ransack -> bash but as long as I'm weaving and bash cancelling everything on my 1h&s bar, I'm keeping up steady pressure. I currently still like Ravager and will like it even more when they fix it so Thundering Presence procs it, but I will eventually replace it when I can get V16 gear and the new jewelry sets. I'm only using a mix of v15 and v14 items still before I have the ability to upgrade. I'm considering 5 Willow's Path (or Black Rose), 1 molag kena, 1 bloodpawn, with 3 agil and 2 endurance (sword and shield) eventually.

I, like you, have tried many different types of builds since 2.1 hit and this is the one I've found the most success with. It will never be a spectacular 1vX build because it does not have the burst DPS to kill people quickly. It is incredibly sustainable though and has a good chance at escape if necessary and does very well against 1-4 enemies.

Waffennacht

Lmao CP hardly makes a difference. I have 50 and have won over 60 1v1 matches, I have lost 3.

First off:

Meta, as of now resource management is far more crucial than damage. Survival is key, sure a dps can still win, but against a tank (Im not really talking about DKs, as I have never been killed by one) as a dps, you'll have a very hard time.

With so many control moves against them dps will run out of resources far more quickly than the one casting CC.

This templar doesn't need huge numbers to kill you, but you need huge numbers to kill him

dsalter

ItsRejectz wrote: »

Said this countless times, people need to stop watching deltias PvP builds. Most of the time they are completely useless and rely on been in a zerg ( sorry, organised group )

If you are wanting tips for PvP, watch PvP streamers who use stam sorc like fengrush & king Richard

i should start streaming... just realised alot of folk suck as stam sorcs

cschwingeb14_ESO

Erock25 wrote: »

I'm either in full heavy (5 Willows Path, 5 Ravager, 2 Night Silence on 1h&s) or five medium and two heavy (5 Powerful Assault replacing the 5 Willows). I usually use Purge while using heavy set up and Caltrops if using Powerful Assault for my skill bar selection. Restraining Prison is also sort of a flex slot and I regularly put Shuffle in there while using my Powerful Assault set up. I really wanted to make this a vampire to take advantage of my Khajit Stealthy passive, but with drinks and all my passive buffs, my HP regen is too good to nerf it.

Note that you can be a vamp and not have any health regen reduction of you feed every hour or two (easy to do in IC). They finally fixed the passive that reduces the health loss to one stage lower, so in stage 1 and stage 2 you should have no health regen reduction (I have not tested this for stage 1, but it works in stage 4)

Erondil

Waffennacht wrote: »

Lmao CP hardly makes a difference. I have 50 and have won over 60 1v1 matches, I have lost 3.

This is totally false if you use them smartly and make your build yourself. Most of good theorycrafters/players I know got a build that perfectly fit their CP rank, builds that wouldnt work with less and would be less efficient with more (ofc 5-10 more doesnt do much, but 100-200 more and your build is outdated already)
Also for a long time I thought CP werent playing a big role in a fight, but then I dueled a good player with 900 CPs (500 more than me) and I changed my opinion. Then I made a few tweaks to counter his build and I won though, so the issue of a fight isnt only decided by the amount of CPs, but it gives a big advantage.

Cathexis

Jbugz97 wrote: »

you said you used deltias build and keep dying in 1v1 ? you do know deltias is a pve guy right.

in pvp world any built that you copy from someone else your most likely going to fail. my advise is play a lot and build a toon to your play style. and you would perform much better then any build you copy.

I run a lot of builds other customized and premade. My custom build is great for groups, I explicitly stated deltias build because everyone recommends it so I was trying to avoid a slew of posts about it because I have done the 2hand + dual wield variant and it just doesn't cut it.

blur

Cathexis wrote: »

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades. I just got in a fight with a templar that I hit with poison arrow at half health, wrecking blow x7, including knocking him on his ass twice, and he turned around, puncturing sweeps twice and I'm dead.

XvX I do phenomenally well, wreck house hard. No problems there. Its so strange to me that the difference is so huge.

Can anyone give me any advise on how to up my game in 1v1/X

@Cathexis
Why are you not using @Xael build? The dude has less than 400 CP (probably 300) and does 1vX just fine. Pretty sure Fengrush is the same way, as am I, except I have more CP than Xael and I am not as good

Sounds like a mixture of skills and gear.
You don't need more than 300 CP to wreck people, let's dispel that myth right now.
Next, skills:
Bar 1 Crit Rush, Rally, Executioner, WB, Streak, Atronach
Bar 2 Crit Surge, Steel Tornado, Boundless Storm, Shuffle, Caltrops, Shooting Star

This build is very good for solo and group play. As for gear you can easily melt people with 5pc Venom, 2 Molag, 3/4 Agil. If you don't have MK, use 3pc Night Mothers or 1 pc MK and 2pc whatever crafted/Telvar you want. Honestly with that gear set and skill set, you will be absolutely destroying. Otherwise it's just you. Make sure you use Boundless not Thundering and if you need to, drop Caltrops for Vigor or Shuffle for Vigor. Personally I like both Shuffle and Caltrops, just make space to use your crit rush (for what @Xael calls on his stream) "your Johnny on the spot heal."

spencermaclean0b16_ESO

@blur can you link Xael's stream?

Cathexis

blur wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades. I just got in a fight with a templar that I hit with poison arrow at half health, wrecking blow x7, including knocking him on his ass twice, and he turned around, puncturing sweeps twice and I'm dead.

XvX I do phenomenally well, wreck house hard. No problems there. Its so strange to me that the difference is so huge.

Can anyone give me any advise on how to up my game in 1v1/X

@Cathexis
Why are you not using @Xael build? The dude has less than 400 CP (probably 300) and does 1vX just fine. Pretty sure Fengrush is the same way, as am I, except I have more CP than Xael and I am not as good

Sounds like a mixture of skills and gear.
You don't need more than 300 CP to wreck people, let's dispel that myth right now.
Next, skills:
Bar 1 Crit Rush, Rally, Executioner, WB, Streak, Atronach
Bar 2 Crit Surge, Steel Tornado, Boundless Storm, Shuffle, Caltrops, Shooting Star

This build is very good for solo and group play. As for gear you can easily melt people with 5pc Venom, 2 Molag, 3/4 Agil. If you don't have MK, use 3pc Night Mothers or 1 pc MK and 2pc whatever crafted/Telvar you want. Honestly with that gear set and skill set, you will be absolutely destroying. Otherwise it's just you. Make sure you use Boundless not Thundering and if you need to, drop Caltrops for Vigor or Shuffle for Vigor. Personally I like both Shuffle and Caltrops, just make space to use your crit rush (for what @Xael calls on his stream) "your Johnny on the spot heal."

Unfortunately I don't have 5 pieces of venom and it will probably be a while since I don't dungeon grind often. I have found crit rush to be very ineffective since the patch, but I'm still trying to figure out what is wrong since the patch... my charging gap closers are moving extremely slow (charge moves at regular running speed). I can't figure out why; it's not latency or a racial passive bug. Regardless I've found boundless storm to be a better gap closer and it gets more skills on my bar. I've never found it useful as a healing combo with surge if that's what you mean. Nevertheless I'll check out Xael's stream and see how he does.

Jar_Ek

Just a quick question... is health recovery affected by battle spirit? Because if not, then I would think a health recovery Tanky sorcerer might work quite well... Will have to test.

a.skelton92

Wollust wrote: »

Jbugz97 wrote: »

you said you used deltias build and keep dying in 1v1 ? you do know deltias is a pve guy right.

in pvp world any built that you copy from someone else your most likely going to fail. my advise is play a lot and build a toon to your play style. and you would perform much better then any build you copy.

Copying a build is a very good first step for someone starting the game/class. From there on you can develop your own playstyle and start to experiment with different build ideas corresponding to your style. People saying copying is bad are a joke. As if they never ever looked something up from another player. And even if its your guildies. Copying is not bad. It is completely reasonable, which is why I never had any problems with sharing any of my builds.

But. I wouldn't recommend copying Deltias build. Neither for PVP nor PVE. He might have a huge fanbase for whatsoever reason, but he is not more than an average dude with a loud mouth.
There is better players around sharing their builds.
For stamina sorc I'd recommend watching Fengrushs videos.
And actually, the stamina builds are pretty similiar for every class. Or let's say they work similiar on every class. Obviously with adaption to skills but still.

And the thing with the 1v1 and 1vX comes with practice. If you only ever play in group against other groups, you do not learn as much as if you just go and duel people. Dueling is the best way to learn your class and to learn enemy behaviour. Which then helps you improve your 1vX play. But it's not a fast way to learn. It needs practice and patience

In no situation, even at the beginning of the game.. Actually, no; ESPECIALLY at the beginning of the game is it useful or good for someone to copy a build. It is when you first start that you need to experiment with all builds and skills and come up with a solution of your own.

I have to agree with JBugs97, copying someone elses build is definitely not the best way to learn to play the game. In fact, it gimps you. You will ALWAYS be better when first starting a game if you went and tested certain things out for yourself, that is how you learn. No one ever got good at mathematics in school from copying the kid next to them. Yeah, that kid may have the correct answer but you need to know how he got to that answer in the first place.

blur

Cathexis wrote: »

blur wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades. I just got in a fight with a templar that I hit with poison arrow at half health, wrecking blow x7, including knocking him on his ass twice, and he turned around, puncturing sweeps twice and I'm dead.

XvX I do phenomenally well, wreck house hard. No problems there. Its so strange to me that the difference is so huge.

Can anyone give me any advise on how to up my game in 1v1/X

@Cathexis
Why are you not using @Xael build? The dude has less than 400 CP (probably 300) and does 1vX just fine. Pretty sure Fengrush is the same way, as am I, except I have more CP than Xael and I am not as good

Sounds like a mixture of skills and gear.
You don't need more than 300 CP to wreck people, let's dispel that myth right now.
Next, skills:
Bar 1 Crit Rush, Rally, Executioner, WB, Streak, Atronach
Bar 2 Crit Surge, Steel Tornado, Boundless Storm, Shuffle, Caltrops, Shooting Star

This build is very good for solo and group play. As for gear you can easily melt people with 5pc Venom, 2 Molag, 3/4 Agil. If you don't have MK, use 3pc Night Mothers or 1 pc MK and 2pc whatever crafted/Telvar you want. Honestly with that gear set and skill set, you will be absolutely destroying. Otherwise it's just you. Make sure you use Boundless not Thundering and if you need to, drop Caltrops for Vigor or Shuffle for Vigor. Personally I like both Shuffle and Caltrops, just make space to use your crit rush (for what @Xael calls on his stream) "your Johnny on the spot heal."

Unfortunately I don't have 5 pieces of venom and it will probably be a while since I don't dungeon grind often. I have found crit rush to be very ineffective since the patch, but I'm still trying to figure out what is wrong since the patch... my charging gap closers are moving extremely slow (charge moves at regular running speed). I can't figure out why; it's not latency or a racial passive bug. Regardless I've found boundless storm to be a better gap closer and it gets more skills on my bar. I've never found it useful as a healing combo with surge if that's what you mean. Nevertheless I'll check out Xael's stream and see how he does.

Not many people have 5 pieces of venom, it's a real grind, that's your endgame best in slot though, that's all.
You would do just fine with 5pc Hundings in the meantime or whatever combo you like.

I have no idea what's going on with your gap closers, I would submit a ticket and video if you can. That would frustrate me beyond belief as Crit Rush is a very important part of being a 2h Stam Sorc. The heal you get from Crit Rush is very nice. Especially when you have CP in Quick Recovery. I have got over 8k insta heals from just using Rush. I also get a lot of my kills from just Crit Rush.

blur

*weird double post

Wollust

a.skelton92 wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Jbugz97 wrote: »

you said you used deltias build and keep dying in 1v1 ? you do know deltias is a pve guy right.

in pvp world any built that you copy from someone else your most likely going to fail. my advise is play a lot and build a toon to your play style. and you would perform much better then any build you copy.

Copying a build is a very good first step for someone starting the game/class. From there on you can develop your own playstyle and start to experiment with different build ideas corresponding to your style. People saying copying is bad are a joke. As if they never ever looked something up from another player. And even if its your guildies. Copying is not bad. It is completely reasonable, which is why I never had any problems with sharing any of my builds.

But. I wouldn't recommend copying Deltias build. Neither for PVP nor PVE. He might have a huge fanbase for whatsoever reason, but he is not more than an average dude with a loud mouth.
There is better players around sharing their builds.
For stamina sorc I'd recommend watching Fengrushs videos.
And actually, the stamina builds are pretty similiar for every class. Or let's say they work similiar on every class. Obviously with adaption to skills but still.

And the thing with the 1v1 and 1vX comes with practice. If you only ever play in group against other groups, you do not learn as much as if you just go and duel people. Dueling is the best way to learn your class and to learn enemy behaviour. Which then helps you improve your 1vX play. But it's not a fast way to learn. It needs practice and patience

In no situation, even at the beginning of the game.. Actually, no; ESPECIALLY at the beginning of the game is it useful or good for someone to copy a build. It is when you first start that you need to experiment with all builds and skills and come up with a solution of your own.

I have to agree with JBugs97, copying someone elses build is definitely not the best way to learn to play the game. In fact, it gimps you. You will ALWAYS be better when first starting a game if you went and tested certain things out for yourself, that is how you learn. No one ever got good at mathematics in school from copying the kid next to them. Yeah, that kid may have the correct answer but you need to know how he got to that answer in the first place.

You missed my point. I never stated you should always stay with copied builds. The best way is always to make your builds yourself, suiting your needs and styles. The only thing i said is, that beginning the game with a solid build will always be better than being thrown into the cold water and having nothing and anything. You can not seriously tell me you're better of starting with something selfmade if you have no (!) idea about anything at all. I know some very, very good players and they all started with help from others and are running now around with their own ideas and stuff.
If you start with a solid build, you can focus on learning the class, the skills and how to use them. Which then will let you gain knowledge about what your gear has to offer, thus leading to building for yourself instead of copying then. If you're serious about the game, you won't stay happy with copying yes. You will experiment and test things out. But having a base from where to go is always a good thing.
This is the advantage of joining pvp not at release but later. You can profit from other people experience and knowledge, helping you advance much faster. And there is a lot of people around sharing ideas. But yeah, keep on telling stuff with the attitude you have to learn everything yourself. Doesn't work for math as well btw, to find out new stuff you need to rely on the things other people found out before you.

Erock25

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Just a quick question... is health recovery affected by battle spirit? Because if not, then I would think a health recovery Tanky sorcerer might work quite well... Will have to test.

Health recovery is not affected by Battle Spirit and it can't be reduced by healing debuffs.

Jar_Ek

Thx @Erock25 that's kinda what I suspected... suddenly seems very viable in PVP in latest patch with all the healing/damage reduction.

Alcast

Cathexis wrote: »

I've probably tried a dozen builds (including deltias build which doesn't work without 600cp) for 1v1 and 1vX but still getting wrecked by the super tanks and the magicka nightblades. I just got in a fight with a templar that I hit with poison arrow at half health, wrecking blow x7, including knocking him on his ass twice, and he turned around, puncturing sweeps twice and I'm dead.

XvX I do phenomenally well, wreck house hard. No problems there. Its so strange to me that the difference is so huge.

Can anyone give me any advise on how to up my game in 1v1/X

First off, the amount of people that grinded up a Stam Sorc because Deltia said its OP is quite ridiculous. Deltia makes viable builds, but nowhere near close the best ones. It is nice to get a good "hang" of the class from his builds, but just dont copy paste it 1:1 >.>.

Usually it is not even an issue of the skills etc, mostly the problem is situational awarness. You need to know when you want to CC an enemy to hit him hard, when to block, when to roll...etc...

Tho for sorc, use Streak to bolt away from tough situations and stun the enemy. Use Defensive Run (now it is instacast since this patch) to "stun" the enemy...It also helps if you KNOW all the other classes skills to know the right counter.