How should Zos deal with cp?

RatedChaotic

Keep as it is

Keep as is. Haters are gonna hate. Losers are gonna lose. Cry babies will cry. I say go back to skyrim,destiny, or diablo.

Dont ruin the game because you suck or cant put time in to compete with the big boys. Just find another game.

Face it its a mmo built with pvp your gonna die eventually. Stop with the ''I died. He has 3k cp''. Nonsense. Suck it up and drive on.

Balinor13

Remove from pvp, keep in pve

Its pretty pathetic how some of you act like this isn't an advantage. Ive been in group with these people with 1K+ points, and some of them now have near 2K. It IS GOD MODE. You can act like its not all day but the guy who did the solo Molag Bal threw you all under the bus. Now everyone is starting to understand the power these people have. They are in TS laughing their asses off at how NOBODY can touch them.

Those of you saying you beat people that have 1K more champ point are probably not going up against good players. When you take a good player and give him/her this kind of power it becomes godmode. 25% more damage from all sources, 25% reduced damage from all sources, 25% better shields, 25% better healing and all the other goodies, not to mention the passives. Stop acting like we suck because we cant overcome those overwhelming odds.

Soulshine

Balinor13 wrote: »

Its pretty pathetic how some of you act like this isn't an advantage. Ive been in group with these people with 1K+ points, and some of them now have near 2K. It IS GOD MODE. You can act like its not all day but the guy who did the solo Molag Bal threw you all under the bus. Now everyone is starting to understand the power these people have. They are in TS laughing their asses off at how NOBODY can touch them.

Those of you saying you beat people that have 1K more champ point are probably not going up against good players. When you take a good player and give him/her this kind of power it becomes godmode. 25% more damage from all sources, 25% reduced damage from all sources, 25% better shields, 25% better healing and all the other goodies, not to mention the passives. Stop acting like we suck because we cant overcome those overwhelming odds.

The "godmode" you are referring to is the failure of this system with regard to the sustainability of the game.

It should have never been implemented with ZERO tradeoffs whatseover besides the time it will take you to earn all the points. How any developer could not consider this significant is beyond me. Other MMOs have skill trees which do not allow for anything and everything to be applied into a single build, and with good reason, well documented.

Supporters keep touting the tired diminishing returns argument. That has categorically nothing to do with the fact that at the end of the CP rainbow, all possible passives and combat bonuses can be applied to a single build, regardless of stat allocation choices, regardless or role choices, regardless of weapons and gear.

Such blatant disregard for the necessity of integrating meaningful tradeoffs in the system so that players can make intelligent choices and thus make player skill in implementing those choices significant, is not only what is completely missing from the CP system, it is already proving PvE content to be a total faceroll (even more than it already was) and making PvP into a joke.

Allowing for a character to get more powerful over time within their chosen role is a good thing.

Allowing for a character to get more powerful at EVERYTHING, regardless of their role, their stat choice, their weapon, their gear etc. is just catering to the dumbing down of games and a very poor recipe for endgame meta.

Hamfast

I looked and did not see the choice I would pick...

I want "Drink heavily and Dance like a Nord" (this can be simulated with "Play Dead" or other similar emote)

ADarklore

Remove from pvp, keep in pve

WHY shouldn't players be able to utilize all their CP in PvE content? I can understand in PvP, where competing directly against other players is a problem, but in PvE... we're not harming anyone else's game by having high CP.

Alucardo

Make campaign rules enabling or disabling cp

A campaign dedicated to no CPs is a pretty good alternative. People who don't think they belong in the game, or don't feel they have enough to compete with people who spend every waking hour on eso, can play there, and the rest in normal campaigns.

Conquers

Make campaign rules enabling or disabling cp

I am actually surprised at the votes in this post. I had hoped this post might help ZoS with choosing an answer, but it seems that all the options have very similar amount of votes (except for remove from pve, keep in pvp)

Alucardo

Make campaign rules enabling or disabling cp

Conquers wrote: »

I am actually surprised at the votes in this post. I had hoped this post might help ZoS with choosing an answer, but it seems that all the options have very similar amount of votes (except for remove from pve, keep in pvp)

I don't think I've ever seen such a well balanced poll like this before

Xeven

Make a cap

Balinor13 wrote: »

Its pretty pathetic how some of you act like this isn't an advantage.

IKR? If it wasn't such a MASSIVE advantage, then why did these guys with 1400 CP spend the equivalent 175 8 hour days AOE grinding the same NPCs OVER AND OVER?!

Lol it is pathetic.

Jar_Ek

Make campaign rules enabling or disabling cp

In order to keep new players in the game there needs to be a viable progression and they need a way to be able to play in both pcs and PvP. The CP system currently makes the PvP viability for new players a joke, so there needs to be a means to let them compete. The simplest solution is cp capped campaigns (0, 300, etc).

However if future content is intended to be balanced for and accessible by all on a semi equal basis, then there needs to be a seasonal cap or catch up mechanism... otherwise it is either way too hard for low cp players or way to easy for high cp.

Oh and just one final point cp is partially time based and partially style based which means the system is inherently biased against casuals, rpers, crafters, pvpers, and biased in favour of 24/7 grinders.

RinaldoGandolphi

My only issues with the Champ System are:

1. you can earn enough points to max out everything.
2. The percentages given are too high

the Champ system was supposed to be a system of "Horizontal progression" It was advertised, and stated over and over again by the devs that Champ System was "Horizontal progression". This is not the case however, it is a straight up vertical progression system. This is what leads to the power creep folks complain about.

I think instead of capping points, they need to reduce the values.

Trees that give 25% boost at 100 points should be 8%
Trees that gives 15% boost at 100 points should be 6%

The values need to be low on purpose, its supposed to be a supplement to your gear and vet level, not the deciding factor it is currently.

The Champion system has trivialized PVE content anyways...if you have 300 points you can faceroll every dungeon in the game pretty much except the new ones and the new ones can't be face rolled only because of mechanics (needing to hit pinion in planar fight, having to kick/synergy the things in the prison, etc) those are the only things keeping the new dungeons from being facerolls due to the champ system.

For a system of horizontal progression, it behaves and rewards very much like a system of vertical progression.

A very well thought out post was made on this months ago, and it looks like the posters predictions are coming true

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/149933/why-champion-system-will-kill-the-game-if-its-implemented-as-is/p1

I don't care who has how many points, but the returns on the Champ system are too great and its lost its original vision which was horizontal progression, its now a straight up vertical progression system. It needs to be fixed as its not only effecting PVP, its rendering most end game raid content as face rolls.

I understand all to well though, this systems biggest defenders are those that have time to suck XP pots and grind mobs, it is what it is. Luckily, Rich Lambert saw even as Emp what the Champ System allows..its obvious even as Emp the devs never intended him to be able to be beat alone, not in that fashion. So look for them to do something about it in the coming updates.

Brrrofski

Keep as it is

I don't get this idea that everyone should be equal.

If someone spends more time doing something, why ahouldn't they process more.

The whole point of every game I've play since a kid is play to progress.

Every online game you start with nothing. You unlock stuff as you go. Perks, guns, boost etc.

How is this ANY different the other games.

CP aren't game breaking.

The thing that makes most different outside of skill and knowledge is sets.

So why should people who spend more time grinding get better sets?

Cap his swords! Take away the stats on his helmet!

It's like making us all wear the same armour.

Inb4 I must have loads, I have 129 cps. I have not once been killed and thought about CP. Either there were more of them, I made a mistake, he caught me off guard or he simply outplayed me.

Soulshine

ADarklore wrote: »

WHY shouldn't players be able to utilize all their CP in PvE content? I can understand in PvP, where competing directly against other players is a problem, but in PvE... we're not harming anyone else's game by having high CP.

This is a very shortsighted view. The more CPs that you have, the easier all content becomes. This was more than proven on PTS when we had all 3600 points to spend. ZoS was quite clear in patch notes to point out that the content in Craglorn was not balanced for players with that many points; it was like swatting at flies. Many vet 4 man instances already feel like this. So do Trials.

Over time it will mean constant balancing problems with world content to account for players who have high CPs vs those who dont. Short of gating the content by yet more systems being put into the game, players at both ends of the spectrum will not have the experience they seek - unless of course, fly swatting in Godmode is your thing.

If they do not make some decisions now and taken action, the problem will just get worse. As I wrote earlier in the thread, CP caps does not provide a solution to the long term problem. It's just a bandaid.

RinaldoGandolphi

Brrrofski wrote: »

I don't get this idea that everyone should be equal.

If someone spends more time doing something, why ahouldn't they process more.

The whole point of every game I've play since a kid is play to progress.

Every online game you start with nothing. You unlock stuff as you go. Perks, guns, boost etc.

How is this ANY different the other games.

CP aren't game breaking.

The thing that makes most different outside of skill and knowledge is sets.

So why should people who spend more time grinding get better sets?

Cap his swords! Take away the stats on his helmet!

It's like making us all wear the same armour.

Inb4 I must have loads, I have 129 cps. I have not once been killed and thought about CP. Either there were more of them, I made a mistake, he caught me off guard or he simply outplayed me.

It has nothing to do with people being equal. This is the point many seem to conveniently ignore. its not about being equal abouts it being "Horizontal progression"

the Champion System was never supposed to be a form of vertical progression. Everyone was nerfed in 1.6 from their previous strength in 1.5, and the Champion System was supposed to allow you to get all that strength back AFTER you maxed your trees....which means 3600 Champ Points was suppsoed to = to 1.5 player strength. thats not the case though, I was weaker in 1,6 when it first came out, but not for long...at 300 points my toons are VASTLY more powerful then i ever was in 1.5. Thats the problem.

It has nothing to do with everyone being equal, it has to do with the returns on the system being too great...In 1.5 most couldn't run around Craglorn alone, now anyone can run around Craglorn alone if they have at least 150 points, this is the issue.

As for PVP, if they open non-CP campaigns, you will find the majority of your PVP'ers there, i know on PC it will be pop locked all the time.

All i want is the CS to be the horizontal progression system we were promised, not this vertical system that makes you far more powerful then intended, Even ZOS admitted they knew it would be an issue, they just didn't think it would happen so soon.

they would be better off just making non-CP campaigns, and reducing the benefits of the trees significantly so they make a difference, but not a large one. just my 2 cents.

Divinius

Make campaign rules enabling or disabling cp

I posted this in another thread, but I'll throw it in here too:

Divinius wrote: »

You know what ZOS really needs to do? Make Champion Rank visible on all players. Seriously! Right after the level indicator next to the player's name, show the number of CP they have.

The vast majority of the complaint threads would cease, when people start to realize that, most of the time, it's not a CP difference that's killing them.

I'm not saying that CP doesn't have an effect. Sure it does. I'm just saying that I would bet a week's pay that very few of the people complaining that they are getting killed by players with "way more CP" than them, are actually being killed due to a CP difference.

Right now, someone with 250 CP is getting his face handed to him by another player. That person is going to come on these forums and complain about how this other player with "over 9000" CP just roflstomped him, and that "it isn't fair!"

But, if that person was able to actually see that the guy that wrecked him really only had 100 CP, maybe he'd keep his mouth shut and instead try to figure out why he sucks.

KewaG

I'm still fairly new to eso and cp but I see stuff on the forums like this all the time. Diminishing returns are one way to sway they effectiveness of cp but I was thinking, couldn't ZOS make it so that cp's take longer to get the more you have.

For example: After a set amount, say 100, of each Champion points (Warrior, Thief and Mage), 10k is added to the next set of three points. Each set of points will cost 10k more than the last until eventually grinding zombies for cp will no longer be as rewarding as it is now. I didn't vote because I don't know just how effective cp's can be as I don't have many and I don't pvp.

This is just food for thought.

LameoveR

ZOS:

Conquers

Make campaign rules enabling or disabling cp

LameoveR wrote: »

ZOS:

listen to all the qq and choose the least qq'ish post

MisterBigglesworth

Remove

Gerardopg

They just have to remove them, anyway they gonna finish doing this so I don't see why make it longer, so many people leaving the game, nobody new so if they really want to keep the game going and attracting people they should just remove them, I have a lot of cp like 200 I think is a lot because I play on Xbox, but I really don't want to grind for more because is like wasting my effort everyone know that it creates a really big power gap between players and content so why work hard in something that is gonna ruin the game so they gonna remove anyway

Sausage

Shut up

I think we need to shut up, Ive a feeling Zen has own plans for this. Didnt they say its coming with Orsinium. Shouldnt take too long until we know.

UntameableAngel

Seems as if you had good intentions with the poll, but you left an answer out that I think many of us would have agreed on..

* Implement a way to give those with lower CPs a chance of catching up faster. *


I am pretty sure it was stated on the last ESO Live (Twitch) that they are going to cap it soon (will not throw away those that have went over - they just won't be allowed to spend it), and Accelerated Enlightenment for those that have low CP.

IMO it is the best compromise.

Removing them would be silly, since people spent time working towards it - but obviously something has to be done, since the power gap created by hardcore gamers is getting a bit ridiculous (especially if the player is really good as well).