Biggest let down ever... Dyed Glass Armor.

Djeriko

So after many months of waiting and writs being completed, we finally see glass armor motifs in the crown store. For some its the first time we can craft glass armor in a full set. But once we get it, burn all of those precious malachites and then run to the dye table, we are blasted with by far the WORST JOB IN THE DYE SYSTEM SO FAR!

The blacks aren't even black, they are a very light grey that's almost white! The reds aren't even red, they are all just a shade of pink! And don't even get me started on the white colors. First the dye system lets us down because no one seems to want to get the SHIELD DYE SYSTEM working but now we get this lazy color by numbers hack of a system that just makes our earned dyes a waste since they are NEVER THE COLOR WE WANT! If you select red, you should get red. If you select black, you should get black. If you want pink, guess what?! All you have to do is select red and you got your pink thanks to whoever was responsible for the dye system on glass armor! Sorry ZOS, you dropped a major ball here!

@ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JasonLeavey can we see some kind of help here?

newtinmpls

Pics please!

Djeriko

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The colors used are coldharbour ash black, champion red, and lamae's white. Black needs to actually be black, red needs to actually be red instead of pink! And I know for some reason the dye system is programmed to have the clothing parts of heavy armor to just look terrible when any kind of dye is put on it so it's no surprise that the lamae's white looks terrible. The metallic parts of the armor that lamae's white gets put on actually look white but when you put it on the parts that aren't metallic, it looks crappy. So yeah, work needs to be done with the dye system to make it like you actually get the color that you earn.

DrunkenGryffinInn

Looks good. I used Aylied Gold, can't complain.

OneWhomWaits

yuck. I was going to buy the book when I got home from work, but damn. That looks terrible.

Pretty in pink it is not

Alucardo

Good news is, if you don't have the Master Angler achievement you can still get pink. Win.

Telel

Just out of curiosity. have you looked at it under a different light? Perhaps in full sunlight instead of at night or in shadows?

This game does have shading variances based on that kind of stuff.

In fact ...Here is Telel in their glass medium armor demonstrating the transliminal violet dye that really takes advantage of that.

https://youtu.be/9RHp4bzYtQM

Djeriko

Telel wrote: »

Just out of curiosity. have you looked at it under a different light? Perhaps in full sunlight instead of at night or in shadows?

This game does have shading variances based on that kind of stuff.

In fact ...Here is Telel in their glass medium armor demonstrating the transliminal violet dye that really takes advantage of that.

I am not talking about different light sources. I'm talking about completely different colors all together. I used the same red dye on other armors (champion red), looks red. If you put it on Glass heavy armor it comes out pink. And no, the light doesn't matter. Look at the pictures i posted with the dye selection next to it and you can clearly see that the dye is red where as the armor came out pink! Also you can clearly see it on character selection screen which is default light with no shadows or anything, still pink.

And look at the shot I took on the character's back. Notice all the grey areas? Yeah that's supposed to be the white color...

And just an odd thing I noticed, has anyone else noticed that the heavy armor head, hands, belt and shoulder pieces have this very appropriate metallic sheen to their parts where as the other pieces such as legs and boots are plain? Shouldn't all metallic parts of the armor have that shine if it was....made out of metal? Should be a little shiny all over if it is the same kind of metal.

Djeriko

To make up for tha argument of lighting affecting the color I have taken the glass armor and one of the basic armor sets (redguard) and dyed them both the same color with the same location with minimal lighting so there was no possibility of lighting affecting the color.

Here's red...




Same dye but glass comes out as pink in stead of the bold red that's seen on the redguard armor.

Now black...




The difference in coldharbor ash black is obvious. Glass armor comes out as grey instead of the black that we all love.

How about blue?




The difference in colors seems to be a trend of glass coming out as a much lighter color than intended. The difference between royal blue (Covenant Conqueror blue) and a baby blue seen on Glass armor.

newtinmpls

Hmmmmm... as a die hard Morrowinder, glass armor is supposed to be green.

Djeriko

The base color is green, glossy green that you'd expect from glass armor. I however just always have wanted to color my glass something else. Glossy green doesn't always scream intimidating on the battlefield and in an mmo that is all about "play it your way", a little customization isn't hard to grasp. My point here is that the colors scheme is all wrong and I aim to make it clear.

newtinmpls

Hmmmm, apparently we have vastly different interpetations of "play it your way".

In previous ES games (which is where I understand the concept to come from) one aquires skills by using them, and while different races may be better at different things (and depending on race and game, there were some pretty big differences), there were no skills or abilities or equipment that you could "not" use.

This game, with it's class-locked skills, right away is different. So in this game, clearly "play it your way" navigates around some limitations. I can deal with that.

Being that this is a game which takes place in the ES universe, I cherish (even if I don't like) the various things which are unique about ES. Including the lore about armor and materials.

Glass armor is green. The raw materials for glass armor are ... green. Distinctive, practically-glow-in-the-dark in-your-face you-couldn't-possibly-mistake-glass-armor-for-ANYthing-else green.

To someone from Morrowind (which is where 'glass' comes from), wearing green (glass) armor says a lot about you as a powerful, possibly politically connected (at least economically connected - as glass was a pretty seriusly negotiated trade item), dangerous foe.

In the world of ES, "glossy green" screams get the f- out of my way or die.

On a related note, I choose to make the assumption that's why there are so many lurid green dye choices so easily unlocked. Poorer, less well connected slobs wish they could have glass armor and try to fake it.

OmniDevil

They definitely could have done a better job with the dye colors on Glass Armor, however. Transliminal Violet and Pact Blood Red looks amazing on it.

SaltyWorley

The glass armor is composed of a different material. It should look different than other types of armor. The physical properties of glass (opacity, reflectivity, etc) are not the same as, say, steel. Glass armor has never been (and never should be) as dark as the heaviest materials. If you want your armor to be dark, use something else.

And quite frankly, I'd argue the glass looks better in 2, if not 3, of the photos. The black and blue heavy are so dark you can barely see any detail on them, whereas the glass makes all of the fine detail much easier to see. The red's a little better, but even then, look at how much more detail you can see on the glass. They're different, obviously, but variety is the spice of life.

I will agree that the beautiful malachite green is what I will always consider to be the "true" glass armor color, and the most correct to the game's history. It seems like folks are finding dyes that will replicate (or get close to) that color, thankfully.

The thing I'd disagree with is that glass armor is "get the F out of my way or die" or in some way the most intimidating set of armor. The heaviest armor has always been that, to me (e.g. Daedric). That's worn by the folks who would just as soon cut you in half as talk to you. Glass armor is the thinking man's armor. It's worn by those who win with strategy (spellpower, critical hits, dodging, etc) rather than sheer brute force because historically it's always been light armor and thus not conducive to that play style.

Djeriko

Comments noted but lore aside, with ESO we are now able to have glass with a tank because the style is merely appearances and the type is what helps make the builds different. That being said Glass is no longer just for high and mighty mages or stealthy nightblades because we now have heavy Glass armor.

I understand the base of green glass being that it's from malachite especially since I played Morrowind too.

All i'm saying is when you put red dye on something, it should be red. I earned that red, and it should not be PINK! I earned that black and it should not be GREY!

The colors displayed should be the colors on the armor, that would take out any confusion and make it seem like you get what you paid for instead of paying for a Lamborgini and getting a Ford Mustang.

Auricle

I'm confused. You wanted to wear glass armor-- glass, which has a completely different structure/finish from metal-- and also have the colours you used on metal to appear exactly the same..? And this is something you're surprised by?

I... I don't understand this line of complaint. It's glass armor. It says it right there in the title. Have you seen stained glass before?

I'm sorry that you're disappointed, but... it's glass. There are a lot of other armor styles you can wear that will jive with opaque colours, if that's essential to your happiness.

newtinmpls

Djeriko wrote: »

I understand the base of green glass being that it's from malachite especially since I played Morrowind too.

.

No it's not malachite, that was added to the description in skyrim. In Morrowind it was a form of volcanic glass with usable tensile properties.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Raw_Glass

xaraan

You are right though that some of the colors don't come out well or as you might expect, almost the same as trying to dye many of the boss head sets.

But, I liked the way mine came out, but it worked for what I was aiming for.

CaliberSH

I, for one, think the dyed glass armor looks fine. In fact, some of your photos make it look better than the base armors.

Djeriko

!

xaraan wrote: »

You are right though that some of the colors don't come out well or as you might expect, almost the same as trying to dye many of the boss head sets.

But, I liked the way mine came out, but it worked for what I was aiming for.

well at least I know a nice silver works with Glass. Thanks for that, what color is that?

CaliberSH wrote: »

I, for one, think the dyed glass armor looks fine. In fact, some of your photos make it look better than the base armors.

It does not look better when reds come out pink. Maybe pink is just your thing but if you want red on there you have to just settle. Same for black coming out grey. You'd think the most popular color of mmo players (black of course) would be seen as (oh I don't know) BLACK

Djeriko

Now that shield dyes are finally going to be implemented, my last concern for dye is that they program the glass armor dyes correctly. I experimented with other dyes as well and found it very off when you select a darker color dye than before, you get a lighter color on the armor.

i3ig_Gun

The glass armor looks like crap IMO, why couldnt they just bring back the Skyrim look of deadric, and Oblivions look of glass? that was their most popular games by far, and you guys had to make a spin off of it? why not just duplicate the look???

Djeriko

tyler_spearsb14_ESO wrote: »

The glass armor looks like crap IMO, why couldnt they just bring back the Skyrim look of deadric, and Oblivions look of glass? that was their most popular games by far, and you guys had to make a spin off of it? why not just duplicate the look???

They always have to go bigger and better each time. Never mind the fact that this game is set in the past. I do like the fact that we are able to make three versions of each style now instead of each style being limited to light, heavy, or medium only. So I'm all for that at least. The dye system is what has always rubbed me the wrong way.

Great idea, bad execution. Love that it's attached to the achievements so you have to work for stuff you like. This thread isn't complaining about design flaws tho. It's about how we get this insanely expensive rare armor that somehow was programmed with incorrect dyes via the dye system.

So I'll ask again. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JasonLeavey @ZOS_MattFiror was it intentional for glass armor to be programmed with incorrect dye from the dye system since the dyes do not match up with the colors after they are applied?

tengri

It's not only for glass... there are tons of colors who just dont attach correctly to various types/styles of armor.
On color works perfectly, the next one looks totally "wrong" in the same slot.

Overall, the whole dyeing system is in a very much unfinished state... and I doubt they'll ever bother to go back at it and fix all the oddities it produces.

SoulAffliction

It's GLASS!!!!! Of course it's not going to look the exact same as different mats! Think about it!

Djeriko

SoulAffliction wrote: »

It's GLASS!!!!! Of course it's not going to look the exact same as different mats! Think about it!

I reject your reality and substitute my own. Glass is glass, got that. Here's where it gets odd. You put red on glass you get pink. That's one thing. You put darker red on glass and you get...LIGHTER pink?! How does that make sense?

Base color should also have no affect seeing as how were are able to get any color we want on something as dark as say VOIDSTEEL which as any pro player knows is dark blue with the occasional gold accents. Dye system says put that red on voidsteel and OMG you get red! Put black on voidstieel and you get black.

Seeing a pattern here?

So as to not have ANY confusion about the dye system, all I ask is that every dye color produce the EXACT color that it advertises on all armors, types, styles, etc. I got my Glass armor cuz it was the only rare style in the game besides my old standby that didn't make me want to puke. What's wrong with getting a Ferrari and wanting it to come in that Ferrari red color? Especially since you EARNED THAT COLOR RED!

Woolenthreads

Djeriko wrote: »

To make up for tha argument of lighting affecting the color I have taken the glass armor and one of the basic armor sets (redguard) and dyed them both the same color with the same location with minimal lighting so there was no possibility of lighting affecting the color.

Here's red...

Same dye but glass comes out as pink in stead of the bold red that's seen on the redguard armor.

Now black...

The difference in coldharbor ash black is obvious. Glass armor comes out as grey instead of the black that we all love.

How about blue?

The difference in colors seems to be a trend of glass coming out as a much lighter color than intended. The difference between royal blue (Covenant Conqueror blue) and a baby blue seen on Glass armor.

Here's an extra problem for you. Everyone has different senses and interpret everything differently. So don't be surprised when I tell you that I see, in those pictures, a light red, a matt black and a twilight blue. To me the red is not pink, although I will agree it's not "fire engine" red. The white..... *sigh* they have NEVER gotten white right. I have two versions of the lightest whites and on some armours they have pink highlights (that's argonian leather armour by the way). Just be glad you're not getting pink highlights.

Grileenor

SoulAffliction wrote: »

It's GLASS!!!!! Of course it's not going to look the exact same as different mats! Think about it!

No.

There parts of it glass and it is easy to see which parts of the armor are glass. The rest is not.

Glass armor color is just not right. It neither matches other armor colors in any way (thus mixing is always a struggle) nor does it even match itself with different types. This has to be a bug and should be fixed.

Emma_Overload

I see a lot of people in this thread trying to rationalize their $50 purchase by claiming that pink is as good as red, when you really wanted RED.

OP is right. It doesn't matter how "good" it looks if the color of the armor has no relationship to the color of the dye. People work hard to get the achievements those dyes represent, so the colors should be reproduced as faithfully as possible.

Woolenthreads

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I see a lot of people in this thread trying to rationalize their $50 purchase by claiming that pink is as good as red, when you really wanted RED.

OP is right. It doesn't matter how "good" it looks if the color of the armor has no relationship to the color of the dye. People work hard to get the achievements those dyes represent, so the colors should be reproduced as faithfully as possible.

ROFLMAO. The colours will never look the same because they are overlays on top of a base colour that is not white. That's why the Argonian Medium Armour always has a pink tinge when coloured white. There are also sections of the armours which are not touched by the colour process. I wasn't claiming that "pink" is as good as red I was claiming that the colour I see in those pictures IS Red. To me Pink is where the admixture of Red to White is between 25%/75% and 75%/25% in terms of whiteness and the pictures, to me, show it around 90% Red.

# Edit: With an eye to very basic colour science using RGB in order to counter the phosphor white of Glass (That is White with green values) to produce a better Red you need to add some more blue so you need a red with some blue values. I looked at the ESO Dye Guide and it's not easy to fix. "Clothier Purple" looks like it might end up being net red but I can't check this for you.

Djeriko

Woolenthreads wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I see a lot of people in this thread trying to rationalize their $50 purchase by claiming that pink is as good as red, when you really wanted RED.

OP is right. It doesn't matter how "good" it looks if the color of the armor has no relationship to the color of the dye. People work hard to get the achievements those dyes represent, so the colors should be reproduced as faithfully as possible.

ROFLMAO. The colours will never look the same because they are overlays on top of a base colour that is not white. That's why the Argonian Medium Armour always has a pink tinge when coloured white. There are also sections of the armours which are not touched by the colour process. I wasn't claiming that "pink" is as good as red I was claiming that the colour I see in those pictures IS Red. To me Pink is where the admixture of Red to White is between 25%/75% and 75%/25% in terms of whiteness and the pictures, to me, show it around 90% Red.

# Edit: With an eye to very basic colour science using RGB in order to counter the phosphor white of Glass (That is White with green values) to produce a better Red you need to add some more blue so you need a red with some blue values. I looked at the ESO Dye Guide and it's not easy to fix. "Clothier Purple" looks like it might end up being net red but I can't check this for you.

I think the best representation of the dye system should operate much like paint should. This is where a lot of people disagree. In my previous posts, I mention how we get older armor types such as voidsteel and dye that. The result is the exact dye that we wanted. Voidsteel being super dark blue dyed red comes out magically, red!

So the dye system already disregards the base color for the armor at least on the normal armor sets which I constantly use redguard as an example (see below pictures and know that the armor is voidsteel in the pictures). Your argument for the base color means nothing when the first sets with redguard armor are perfect representations of their colors.

Djeriko wrote: »

To make up for that argument of lighting affecting the color I have taken the glass armor and one of the basic armor sets (redguard) and dyed them both the same color with the same location with minimal lighting so there was no possibility of lighting affecting the color.

Here's red...




Same dye but glass comes out as pink in stead of the bold red that's seen on the redguard armor.

Now black...




The difference in coldharbor ash black is obvious. Glass armor comes out as grey instead of the black that we all love.

How about blue?




The difference in colors seems to be a trend of glass coming out as a much lighter color than intended. The difference between royal blue (Covenant Conqueror blue) and a baby blue seen on Glass armor.

Once again both armor sets are the same level and material. Voidsteel a ghastly dark blue and Glass the typical light green base no matter what the level is by the way. Shouldn't the darker color (voidsteel) be the more resistant to changing it's base color? Wouldn't the lighter colored armor (Glass) be willing to change its color more easily? Spill red dye on a white table cloth and it turns red, spill it on dark blue and you get...slightly darker blue?

And there you have it, dye works better on lighter colors. You shouldn't add red and get pink then add darker red and get a lighter color pink. It just doesn't make sense.

Oh and don't forget that black dye! If I wanted grey I would have selected grey. Best way to tell the dye system is off. Most popular color in all the dye system is Coldharbor Ash Black. Mainly because not everyone has the PVP darker version and black is always in style when you are killing bandits and evil Daedric Lords! And guess what? Dye system says you want black? Too freaking bad! Here's your grey dye!

All I'm saying is if this system worked correctly, all dyes would be exact and there would be no room for argument. How hard is it for anyone to understand that if the system says apply red, black, blue, FREAKING PURPLE then maybe you should get red, black, blue and your freaking purple exactly how it advertises! We finally get shield dyes after a year of me telling them this and I'm still intending to voice the fixes needed to the dye system because the job was done incorrectly.