Glass & Xivkyn requirements are over the top - ZoS can keep it (similar to Robyn Williams Golf!)

tactica

Fair Warning, my wall of text is not for the faint of heart.

The requirements for the Glass / Xivkyn armor baffle's me. Let me say, I regularly game in the evening, hit master crafter on several different toons with multiple skills. I run vet dungeons from time to time, but I'm quite a casual player looking to do more end game. My highest toon is VR8. I have wife, day job, 3 teenagers... etc... I still find 3-ish maybe more hours a day during week to throw down, but do what I can.

I'm very glad new armors are in the game, but for me (above) I won't be pursuing things like this. I'm one fragment away from Psijic Ambrosia (need #V still after months of that effort on 3 toons)... but, perhaps I'm just too casual of a PS4 player to ever, and I mean ever entertain doing this. Frankly, I'm baffled that anyone would entertain the glass / xivkyn armor in its current form after looking at what I presently understand to be the requirements to obtain and then, to use the recipe... maybe I'm missing something. Here's where I'm at with the through process:

Prep Work Stuff We Already Do
Level toon up (VR levels already feel a bit too grindy, but okay)
Level crafting up (check)
Find Skyshards / Hit Delves / Group Dungeons / for the extra skill points to invest in crafting

Let the Grind Begin!!
Grab Max level writs for Blacksmithing / Clothier / Woodworking (check)
Farm / Buy Max Mats (sigh... 2-3 toons daily will deplete a stack... check... fun is sapping away already do to steep requirements)

Some Eye Opening Realization
A SINGLE fragment *MIGHT* come from a Writ < 10% chance drop
- (a buddy and I, both ran 2 of our VR toons through all 3 crafting writs, seen a single frag drop... 1:12 ratio!)

So, how long's it going to take?
x10 fragments per CHAPTER required
(Really? It's like if the guy that designed collecting the Dwemer Motif set had a nightmare... and came up with Glass and Xivekyn motif requirements!)

But... it doesn't end there my friends!
+ $25K resin to form EACH chapter <blink... blink...>
(WTH?)
You need 14 CHAPTERS!!! (10 frag x 14 = 140 fragments to RNG find!) <blank stare...>

So, doing some Elder-Math's on this... that's $25k Merethic Restorative Resin from Mystic vendor / chapter or $25k * 14 = $350k gold at vendor
- (just to give us a glimmer of hope, there's a low RNG chance you get the whole book though) <twitch...>

So you know how to make your armor, now what does it take after all these months, gold, and writs?
Go farm... *Malchite Shards*
I gather it takes x10 Malchite shards to make 1 chunk of Malchite
(not a typo, you get one!)
Heh, and... you can't trade it once refined... just a bit of insult to injury there

Machite required to craft gear after you learn the recipe
(and just wait till you see how much it takes to make VR16 gear for all your efforts so far!) <glaring grins...>

Oh yeah, you wanted it legendary - after all, you are VR15 or VR16 right? You aren't doing this for your low level alt!
Now go farm $400K in materials so you can upgrade it to Legendary / Gold <insane laughters...>

My vote... and if you are still reading
Not so well played, ZoS... this is kind of a laughable train-wreck actually... and I'm a big ESO fan / supporter. However, I call it like I see it. I think you / your crew dropped the ball badly on this one and it went straight to the ground floor.

However, on the bright side - This whole mess of an idea and all the steps in this Epic Quest for obtaining and building this armor reminds me of Robin Williams stand-up routine on the invention of Golf - seriously... listen, I think you have a Robin Williams fan in your development department:

[SNIP- video]

Anyway - like golf, I'll pass on the whole thing!!

Future Thinking
The Psijic Ambrosia was just about the limit of my tolerance for a silly quest to assemble ideas. Just for some positive feedback too - the Psijic Ambrosia worked for a few different reasons. It was reasonably attainable with one character, but a group of characters meant I could somewhat expedite the process. It was only MILDLY absurd to gather all the components for the end game writ, but not out of the question hard... and in a very reasonable amount of time, I could stock pile the resources required... I could craft in advance the key 6 items for the end game writ and then perform daily writs on auto-pilot, which turned the fun-mode on, and turned the grind-mode way down. As the fragments started to finally roll in, the headach-factor went way down, and one could feel a sense of accomplishment without any real daily burden - that is important... I don't want my GAME to feel like a daily burden!. Now there's still this fishing and perfect roe thing... which I really hope you guys sort out, cause that's a pain in the arse... the drop rate is just too darn low... maybe a perk at some point to improve how quickly I can real in fish... something... but we can talk about that later... overall, I'm pleased and can deal with the Psijic Ambrosia process. With minimal effort and as a background process... FINALLY, after several months of just a quick logon and turn in (pre crafted and only 6 spaces in inventory being taken up) anyone can see the light at the end of that tunnel. 7 pieces, though an arbitrary number to obtain and wished they were not individually numbered... still, was workable.

A lesson someone should have taken from Psijic Ambrosia... It was TOLERABLE... but not fun by any stretch... and it was about the extreme for tolerable for many of us, and several just flat out gave up.

Fun... lets not forget it
You made a game, its supposed to be fun.

Back to this new glass armor and the alike... Somebody COMPLETELY missed the fun-card idea here with Glass Armor and Xivekyn (whatever) armor. They time-to-fun ratio is WAY over the top here. The time spent and effort required is something akin to a job... I mean, really??? Did someone really think this was a good idea???

I'm not even interested in pursuing this one. I will happily sell any fragment I receive though and bank roll on the misfortune of others who attempt this epic journey.

For me, the **FUN** in this game is questing with friends, taking on dungeons, working on end game drops, building my character. SOMEONE at ZoS needs to keep the vision and strategic vision alive as they develop content. The above is just a mess. Nobody in their right mind who looks at the above and really considers the time vested is going to think - I need to do that.

Heck - even if the book for glass and Xivkyn dropped for you now... and you could learn it with max skills invested... it's still a giant chore... the shards conversion and farming there alone not to mention the requirement for gear to make it are all messed up. I have a second job... I bought ESO to game with friends, not sit at a crafting bench all day. Yes, I want to feel like I am able to create something special for clannies when I can craft in a motif they want... but good grief, this is ridiculous and so far over the top and well outside of the next time zone here... we are in another stratosphere... this is not FUN... not even close.

Not mad at all. There are plenty of good looking armors out there. In the end, all the work is for a vanity item. I'm just voicing to the powers that be - you really missed the mark as far as this player is concerned. I, for one, won't be partaking in this type of content now, or in the future... putting this type of content out is a good way to push folks like me away.

If you keep it in vanity alone, fine... but if you put quests like this into MEANINGFUL content, players, like me, will be very disappointed. I hope you are listening.

Just my .02... and +3 Internets to you if you made it to the end of my wall of text,

v/r,

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Paazhahdrimaak

It's near impossible to collect them all.

Or will just take forever.

They want us to spend real money and buy them off the crown store when they hit there.

It's a sketchy way to get us to buy the things we want.

Hopefully they will gain a conscience, realize how messed up it is and it just goes like how dwemer motifs are.

P.S. I really appreciate you typing out all those thoughts. They are on a lot of our minds.

tactica

@Paazhahdrimaak

I've read a post or two about folks who are thankful for this massive questing opportunity, but just a couple. In large part, folks I know and game with are in the "you gotta be kidding me" camp. To each his own. As long as they keep stuff like this on 'vanity' items, I say more power too them. Good for the few folks that want it, and good for ZoS for delivering it to them... just keep torture questing out of the actual content please... that's my only request. The moment I have to do anything like this to run dungeons or end game PvE content... heh, my days will be numbered sadly.

There's an interesting psychology at play as escaltion of difficulty to obtain vanity motif goods. Unless I'm mistaken, the Imperial Motif was the only one that got easier, while the rest got harder. Psijic Ambrosia may have been the beginning... maybe Dwemer add... but the jump / trend is tracking toward crazy difficult. I wonder if the general consensus is love it, hate it or don't matter as long as it stays out of meaningful content?

1. Blue starting motifs - find them, learn them
2. Purple motifs - find them in harder areas, achieve mastery, learn them, mats to use them are harder
3. Dwemer Purple motif - we broke it into tiny pieces, collect em all... and the mats, those are hard to find too!
4. ** Imperial Motif - really hard to find, but you get it all when you find it
5. Psijic Ambrosia - let's try something new Writs for Fragments and mats, collect em all then fishing for a finisher!!
6. Glass Recipe - behold, the time-suck, fun abandoning, bank breaking recipe and multi-part material abyss of a challenge designed to keep the wealthiest amongst you busy for months!
7. And then, Xivkyn recipe...

For now, I'll just do my daily writs when I have materials, and be sell fragments to the highest bidder. My main goal in ESO is end game questing and laughing with friends. The fun factor just isn't there for me to pursue any grind, gather, spend, repeat quest... for weeks much less... months. To each his own though.

Valen_Byte

OP, I fully agree with every single word.

+10 internets to you

failkiwib16_ESO

I am amazed that you actually grind for everything. I buy everything.... I sell what I don't need or want, and earn enough to buy the rest.

The grind for alone the Imperial motif is insane, not to mention all the fragmented bs, starting with the Dwemer style to Psijic recipe to Glass...

Swindy

As a solo Pve guy who loves crafting, I don't get to do group delves, nor earn AP unless I sucessfully defend myself during a gank (not often).

So at VR16 on my only character, playing 10-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, since XBox opened, I have found:

zero Psijic Ambrosia (don't even know what it is if I'm honest)
3 roe (I like to fish late at night with a scotch for a little before bed, it's relaxing)
1 malachite shard
3 glass motifs
3 red ingots
3 pieces of silk
2 pieces of leather
3 pieces of dwemer scrap (all found as a pre level 20 character)

I haven't even bought the dwemer motif from the crown store as at about A$50, never having found any real scrap to use, why would I bother Zos?

So yes, I do grind, non-stop, & I'm not in any guilds either so money isn't prevalent in my characters account, and Zos clearly hasn't had my play style in mind either with their crafting thoughts.

It appears Zos expects everyone to zerg everywhere in a rush to gather & sell for one off crafters to utilise for the masses.

Oh, & until my health gave out, I was a scratch golfer...

Ourorboros

100% agree OP. Waaaaayyyy tooooo griiiiiinnnnnnndddddddyyyyy.

There is another point about the new motifs you didn't mention that makes me none too happy. I'm no longer 100% in crafting achievement. I will need to learn all Glass and Xivekyn chapters to be back to 100%. Chances are slim this will happen without major changes to either the game mechanic or motif prices. What is somewhat puzzling is that the new Imperial City fish didn't affect my Master Angler title. Lord knows, catching the fish will be much easier than learning all the new motif chapter. Along with the major change made to collectibles, I guess I will have to forget about completing some achievements, as ZOS has made the odds of getting them more extreme than winning a big lotto.

Teridaxus

You know what is the best/worst part about this?^^

We know from dataming that the next 3 motifs ( yokudan, akavirii and mercenary/undauted ) will be done the same way as glass.

Mitchblue

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

I am amazed that you actually grind for everything. I buy everything.... I sell what I don't need or want, and earn enough to buy the rest.

The grind for alone the Imperial motif is insane, not to mention all the fragmented bs, starting with the Dwemer style to Psijic recipe to Glass...

Can I borrow 2 million, please? My VR6, I have 23k.

Rosveen

Swindy wrote: »

As a solo Pve guy who loves crafting, I don't get to do group delves, nor earn AP unless I sucessfully defend myself during a gank (not often).

So at VR15 on my only character, playing 10-16 hours a day, 7 days a week, since XBox opened, I have found:

zero Psijic Ambrosia (don't even know what it is if I'm honest)
3 roe (I like to fish late at night with a scotch for a little before bed, it's relaxing)
1 malachite shard
3 glass motifs
3 red ingots
3 pieces of silk
2 pieces of leather
3 pieces of dwemer scrap (all found as a pre level 20 character)

I haven't even bought the dwemer motif from the crown store as at about A$50, never having found any real scrap to use, why would I bother Zos?

So yes, I do grind, non-stop, & I'm not in any guilds either so money isn't prevalent in my characters account, and Zos clearly hasn't had my play style in mind either with their crafting thoughts.

It appears Zos expects everyone to zerg everywhere in a rush to gather & sell for one off crafters to utilise for the masses.

Oh, & until my health gave out, I was a scratch golfer...

Dwemer motif and scraps can be found only in Dwemer dungeons. You won't find many through normal gameplay, but they drop often enough when you farm the right locations. IMO it's a well thought-out motif: the requirements fit thematically, splitting it into chapters makes sense for an ancient, forgotten art.

Making glass harder to acquire than Dwemer? Not so much logic here.

Ashtaris

Well we all know the only reason they made the Glass and Xivkyn motif fragments such a grind is because they will be offered in the crown store at some point. They want people to BUY them, not find them in-game. I don't have that much of a problem with that, it's just getting some of the mats that seems to be the real PITA. For example, the Malachite shards. The only way they currently drop is from treasure chests. And now there are so many people out farming those chests, good luck with that. And when you do find them, there is a SMALL chance that you might get a shard in the chest. To me, it's just another time-sink grind to make up for their lack of content. This game has just turned into one gigantic grind, and I find grinds incredibly boring.

Rune_Relic

Ashtaris wrote: »

Well we all know the only reason they made the Glass and Xivkyn motif fragments such a grind is because they will be offered in the crown store at some point. They want people to BUY them, not find them in-game. I don't have that much of a problem with that, it's just getting some of the mats that seems to be the real PITA. For example, the Malachite shards. The only way they currently drop is from treasure chests. And now there are so many people out farming those chests, good luck with that. And when you do find them, there is a SMALL chance that you might get a shard in the chest. To me, it's just another time-sink grind to make up for their lack of content. This game has just turned into one gigantic grind, and I find grinds incredibly boring.

Alas what will probably happen is gold farmer buys multiple accounts with 8 bots each plays the odds and saturates/corners the in game market.
I take it this is the intended idea.
I hope that's what they had in mind anyway.

I would rather rinse my eyes in a bleach and glass solution personally.

Ourorboros

Ashtaris wrote: »

Well we all know the only reason they made the Glass and Xivkyn motif fragments such a grind is because they will be offered in the crown store at some point. They want people to BUY them, not find them in-game. I don't have that much of a problem with that, it's just getting some of the mats that seems to be the real PITA. For example, the Malachite shards. The only way they currently drop is from treasure chests. And now there are so many people out farming those chests, good luck with that. And when you do find them, there is a SMALL chance that you might get a shard in the chest. To me, it's just another time-sink grind to make up for their lack of content. This game has just turned into one gigantic grind, and I find grinds incredibly boring.

The crown store is not an option to buy motifs for some of us. There are such things as budget constraints. Eventually the motifs will be available for lower prices in guild stores. Witness Dwemer chapters. On release, they were 50k. Now they are 3-4k. The same will happen with Glass and Xivekyn eventually. For those of us who cannot or will not buy from the crown store, guild kiosks will be the best chance to get all chapters. I certainly don't think I will ever get all the chapters on my own doing daily writs on my only max crafter. And I really don't want to train more alts to do the writs....the writs require too many mats and feeding the writs becomes another grind.

You are so right about chests and malachite shards. There really needs to be a better system. I've opened many many chests and have a grand total of 16 shards. Not enough for even two pieces of glass equipment. If the next DLC doesn't up the fun factor a lot, the grind will drive me from the game.

SLy_Kyti

Ashtaris wrote: »

Well we all know the only reason they made the Glass and Xivkyn motif fragments such a grind is because they will be offered in the crown store at some point. They want people to BUY them, not find them in-game.

in a nut shell.

ZOS wants you to get frustrated and buy them in Crown Store

helediron

The major content of IC is gear change to VR15 and 16. If IC would have been VR14 with no new materials, only handful of PvP players would have bought it. So they put in things that are essential to PvE players to trigger sales. Because the DLC has hardly any actual PvE content, they decided to "extend" it with grind. IC may be huge in size but hollow of content.

This is not an update for crafters at all. It is just bringing more of the same. It is a DLC for PvP players with enough hooks that PvE players bought it too. Crafting items got nerfed. Making crafted VR16 items takes way more effort than farming dropsets.

I get a new glass motif piece once per week by doing writs with six maxed crafters. That requires daily farming. It takes probably four months to complete glass, assuming i can trade upcoming duplicates. With one crafter, two years?

I am not collecting Xivkyn at all, and probably buy it from crown store. Too much RNG. Anyway glass and xivkyn are just cosmetic things. I am not worrying about being "uncompleted" crafter with IC.

The worst grind is VR16 mats. ZOS, cut it down. The tenfold requirement of crafting mats is just too stupid. They are raw material to make *white* gear, bottom level crafting. If ZOS thought they could "extend" the DLC with that, they failed. I have enough tv stones, so i have already abandoned IC. I am not going to continue that grind.

Nestor

Since my VR Characters run around with equipment that is two to four levels below them, this will be the same when they reach VR16, they will wear VR14 gear. I see no incentive or reason to grind out the new equipment levels. I can't imagine it even provides that much an edge in PvP. The extra few percent that you get in stats is not going to make the difference in a fight.

Yia

The real problem is where you grind, you craft , you research for weeks and just as you hit the pinnacle and decide to relax a bit,,, WHAM!, the dump more levels and even more annoying craft.

I think I am going to start selling the stuff on the trader, less headache, better bankroll...and with patience, I can afford the stuff when the next DLC drives the price down some.

tactica

Sad thing is, I would like to be able to craft the new armors, but there's just no way on earth I'm going to devote even a fraction of the time it takes to accumulate the pieces, the money or the shards or the malachite to build armors... its just stupidly laughable. Frankly, its a bit insulting after I did the math...

Cuyler

Nestor wrote: »

Since my VR Characters run around with equipment that is two to four levels below them, this will be the same when they reach VR16, they will wear VR14 gear. I see no incentive or reason to grind out the new equipment levels. I can't imagine it even provides that much an edge in PvP. The extra few percent that you get in stats is not going to make the difference in a fight.

It's not "a few extra percent" @Nestor. Find someone with the v16 gear and compare your stats. It's a big difference. Don't forget each piece gets a shiny new enchantment as well. It adds up quick.

myrrrorb14_ESO

A few bad apples ruined all future motifs. Some hardcore people got all the dwemer chapters in a few hours and really ticked off the developers.

They made sure to make it as ridiculous as they could, so those people dont repeat it. Unfortunately, normal and casual players may never get all of the new chapters.

But at least you will be able to buy them soon for only 5000 crowns.

Gerardopg

Yeah just a stave v14 yellow bs a v16 yellow one, it gives you like 200 more spell damage, and the enchantments for v16 are really strong a v16 spell damage enchantment give you 133 and v16 177, plus the magicka armor enchantments give you like 20% more than for v14, so v16 gear is not about just some stats the enchantments is what make them very powerfull

tactica

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

A few bad apples ruined all future motifs. Some hardcore people got all the dwemer chapters in a few hours and really ticked off the developers.

They made sure to make it as ridiculous as they could, so those people dont repeat it. Unfortunately, normal and casual players may never get all of the new chapters.

I don't know if that did or did not tick off the Dev's... However, as long as you have guilds, you are going to have guild efforts towards completing things. If you have multiple Guilds that are really are part of the same effort, then you even further a cause to complete something. So, if it's available, they will come... or for every lock, there is a key. The only difference is, do you allow the key to work or not?

If the 'devs' as you put it really wanted Dwemer to not all be unlocked in a few hours, there was a way to make that happen, you only release page 1 week 1, page 2 week 2, etc... unlocking could also be quest driven... some pages are found, some pages are dropped by a boss... others are unearthed by obtaining a treasure map to a lost archive... lost archive must first be located... its a lost race, could have made the whole thing very FUN and CONTENT drive, not GRINDY arse chore to obtain where in-game money and RNG dominates chances of acquiring... moreover, the pieces to create don't have to be any harder to find than void cloth...

ESO is loaded with quests, some memorable, laughable and fun... (first time I did the quest for the mystery meat, I was seriously grossed out and surprised at that ending - I mean, how creative!! The trophy item that made friend's toons barf? FUN, bravo and well done. I seriously LOL'd when that happened! I say hats off to ZoS and ESO for actual creative content like that! Now I would have actually kept that item and many like it - had it not taken up a key spot in my inventory, but that's a different problem and a different gripe... the point is, someone was thinking from the correct side of their brain - FUN!) They could easily tie glass and Xivekyn motifs to this and the armor motifs of the future could also be tied to such CONTENT. Writ crafting ad-nauseum is boring... nobody logs on and says, wow... can't wait to go buy/farm more of that void cloth / ore / wood each day and grind out more writs... so I can hope to get more glass fragments... so I can hope to get enough to go burn 25k so I can hope to make a book but probably just a page... and then go grind out shards so I can make a piece of malachite... only so I can get 100-150 of those things to make one set of armor... Heh, WTH??? It's extremely lazy coding using a tired mechanic to RNG drop this stuff that should be FUN to acquire and build for your guildies and friends while you all spend minimal amount of time at it and go do the stuff that is FUN in game to work on, like end game content!!!

Somebody really just needs to step back, open their eyes and think - what are we really doing here...

1. Why do people play our game?
2. Is it for the fun content or the hours and hours and weeks if not months of grindy things to do?
3. Which will draw more players?
4. Which will retain vs. turn players away?
5. Which do we need more of going forward?
6. Which items should we fix, creating more time sync burdens or eliminating those and creating more fun with rewards?

Is it just me, or is the answer to all of the above just painfully obvious to make their business model grow and prosper, while also making the player base happy and keeping more folks in game?

I get it, they want folks in game longer... but artifically doing that with cr@p grind efforts is the wrong way to your goal.

Just saying, decision makers need to get their head in the game, before the car completely gets off the rails.

IC should be a wake up call... now.

Calidus1

I personally like that it is difficult to get the motifs. Its part of the fun to get them. And if it was easy, everyone could wear them.

I think one of the big differences here is people who play on console versus PC. Console players seem to be the most upset about how long everything will take. Conversely, PC players have been playing for a long time don't care that much. It is all relative; when you have spent a year researching every trait a month doesn't seem that long to work for a motif. Our servers are rich with resources and we want things to be hard so not everyone can get everything new right away. The devs need to strike a balance, which I think they have done well.

TL;DR if you're on a console don't worry about how long it will take to get good things and just enjoy the game

Akrasjel

From what i understad it works as inteneded(takes time) and it's not for everyone... effort. And it's not even a month after IC was released.
I'm not learning styles beyond the racial ones.

HebrewHatchet

I think their intention was to make it so that some styles are more rare than others. You don't actually have to grind for it, you can, instead, buy the crafted pieces that you want from somebody who can make it. If you're lucky enough to get a chapter, you can then sell glass staves/pauldrons/robes or whatever you happen to get at a premium because of the rarity.

Nobody is forcing you to get everything in the game, if you can get 50% of what's available in such a massive game, then you are already an exceptional gamer.

tactica

Calidus1 wrote: »

I personally like that it is difficult to get the motifs. Its part of the fun to get them. And if it was easy, everyone could wear them.

I think one of the big differences here is people who play on console versus PC. Console players seem to be the most upset about how long everything will take. Conversely, PC players have been playing for a long time don't care that much. It is all relative; when you have spent a year researching every trait a month doesn't seem that long to work for a motif. Our servers are rich with resources and we want things to be hard so not everyone can get everything new right away. The devs need to strike a balance, which I think they have done well.

TL;DR if you're on a console don't worry about how long it will take to get good things and just enjoy the game

@Calidus1

1. I respectfully disagree with the majority of your premise... I don't believe its just Console players who most upset with the new design mechanic in IC for crafting... unless there are more console players than PC players, then by virtue of sheer volume, then yes, you may have a point... but percentages of players in each camp would be interesting to know, and how many of each are happy / not so happy / upset would be an interesting measure. Regardless - its a business, and consumers aren't happy. I'll leave it to ZoS to figure out exactly where that split lies, and how important it is for them to address.

2. I've spoken and heard from more than one PC player who is quite frankly displeased and vocal about the IC patch / dlc. There discontent is real in regards to the new crafting. You seem okay with it, if not fond of the quest - and that's great, but I'm not sure you speak for your peers and the PC crowd at large. If *most* of the PC players have the new motif's in a month, then I say bravo, but I'm not even sure that's true. If it were, one wonders if that's due to the large resources or player characters created over a year's time? If that were true, then one wonders how the console players can even hope to be on the same page? We couldn't... but I digress... No dobut plenty of die-hards with multiple characters to run will on the PC side, to your point, and props to them. However, it would seem there's likely more than one working stiff, mother, father out there who can't put in the days / time to have 8 leveled toons all running writs and generating materials just to hammer out the new sets, plus have time to game... and live a life in the real world... and finally on this point, if the business model ZoS is designing too is ONLY for the legacy PC players, with established resources and characters, then how will they ever grow or make money? This is a business model afterall. Talk about daunting for the new PC player... sheesh... Wouldn't that be a death nell to the entire project? What a horribly narrow sighted model that would be appealing to, if your premise were even remotely true.

2. Though I categorically disagree - let's go with your thought process for a sec. Let's say you are right... What *IF* most PC players were generally happy and used to the oh-so-long times to earn *whatever item* and *most* console players were not and fell into the generally more *upset* camp. Then, would it not make sense for ZoS to design their game accordingly? If you were correct, I would be all for ZoS to leave the Glass and Xivekyn motifs with epic time / resource quests in place for the lot of the PC crowd, but not so much for the Console players... Afterall, as you say, Console players are not used to this epic time suck. We do not know the world of the PC MMO game world experience, right? We have not had ESO as long it only released in July for us, and our patience does not allow for such things. We couldn't be expected to even understand how long the PC crowd is used to waiting for things... Therefore, unless ZoS also want to lose that business model, ZoS would recognize that they would need to design the content for that crowd, to that crowd on that platform - and thus, make it much more meaningful and realistic to earn for the crowd which - by your definition, doesn't have the patience for such things and is not used to such things on their platform.

I could support that... Afterall, I'm sure you are NOT suggesting the console players, adjust their established habbits. I'm sure you are not suggesting that an entire player base, one which is larger and paying and a new infusion of cash to ZoS, simply adjust to the habbits and playstyles of the PC sit and wait crowd, just because the PC players have larger resources and have been doing it for a year, right? We've only had the game since July. It's definitely NOT reasonable for us to want to buy content now, and wait another year to use it... essentially putting us on pace with where you are now - that's not what you are proposing, right?

+ + +

Now back to reality.

Not only do I disagree with your assessment of PC to Console player mentality, it also doesn't make sense. I'm not willing to shoehorn all people from one camp or another into a given mindset. It's a simpleton perspective of complex groups and solves nothing to do so. My hyberbole for example suggests supporting two different versions of the game in an unrealistic manner, so it's easier on console and long and painful on PC... which, would only make every PC player seriously question why they are going through the torture of staying on PC... and yeah, add-ons and customization is great, but at the cost of added time to do everything, it would be a mass exodus if you could get same enjoyment in a fraction of the time elsewhere. Sure, die-hards would stay, but time saved, is time saved, and more migration than has already occurred would continue. A lesser time to accomplish and longer time to accomplish version of the game, seperated by platform is a sure fire way to segment your playerbase even further, and likely result in the fallout of one of your groups. It also makes no sense.

Folks have lives outside of ESO my friend... and, we enjoy them. If motifs are only there for those who put countless hours after a year of play into the game, its already on its final days... writings on the wall. The GAME of ESO should not attempt to SUCK all the time up doing meaningless things... content is great, content is fun, and time spent in game should be used for things that are meaningful and enjoyable... not grinding.

Many console players came from PC. Many console players, like myself, own many PCs and have played many MMOs over the years. At 41 this year and worked in IT for more than half of those years, I could share more than one story about online gaming going back to LAN parties, mud's and ISP hosted servers that we used to maintain. It doesn't mean that in today's day and age, that what ZoS is doing and designing is reasonable. It just means, you accept it and would suggest others do the same.

+ + +

TL;DR - We will just have to agree to disagree.

tactica

HebrewHatchet wrote: »

I think their intention was to make it so that some styles are more rare than others. You don't actually have to grind for it, you can, instead, buy the crafted pieces that you want from somebody who can make it. If you're lucky enough to get a chapter, you can then sell glass staves/pauldrons/robes or whatever you happen to get at a premium because of the rarity.

Nobody is forcing you to get everything in the game, if you can get 50% of what's available in such a massive game, then you are already an exceptional gamer.

1. don't want to speak for others, I don't care if anyone thinks I'm an exceptional gamer or not
2. don't think mind if something takes a reasonable effort to obtain or achieve whether its a a motif weapon or otherwise
3. However when something is relgated to RNG and meaningless resource grind coupled with gold pay-cap's, its just tedium ad naseum... and, to what end?
4. If / when you accomplish one of 14 pieces, all you have to show for it is the ability to say - I suffered through that stage.
5. Even if / when you accomplish the task of unlocking the motif, you are off to grind again
6. When it takes 10 shards to make a single piece of material that you need 100-150 of to make a piece of v16 armor... you start saying, what's the point?
7. It's not if you can accomplish it, given enough time, anyone can - there's nothing elite about it... its just a huge time suck... it's, why do they even bother designing it this way?
8. It's not enjoyable to earn, it's painful... and once unlocked, not even enjoyable to offer to clannies or friends... its just one big giagantic pain on top of a pain...
9. That's the point.

Gerardopg

I was thinking in buying both when they release them on the crown store, but I had almost complete the xyvkin I am only missing swords, so well I saved 5000 crowns, for the glass one well everybody know that is you want it you have to buy it from the crown store or spend 3 years reuniting the fragments

Ourorboros

Players defending the new motif grind often say 'if it was easy, everyone would wear it", and 'it will be good for the crafting economy, since only a few will be able to craft this style'. I don't think there is much merit to either of these.

First, the economy: Yes, the new styles will command a premium price, but only for a limited time. What happens to price when a). the motifs are in the crown store, and b). new styles from new DLCs supplant interest in Glass and Xivkyn. Plus without a global market, crafters who know the style have limited penetration into the player base. ZOS used the economy to justify the motif grind, but they are the same ones who will devalue the items by crown store and DLC. Can't have it both ways, ZOS.

2nd, 'everyone would wear it if were easy'. First, what is wrong with that? It's a style that offers no game play benefit. Should we make blue jeans hard to get because everyone wears them? Other than that, remember, styles are only applied to CRAFTED armor. Crafted sets are not what everyone wears. Players with access to dropped sets wear them, and at most only a few pieces of crafted armor. Until ZOS makes crafted sets that are as desired as dropped sets, you won't see everyone decked out in the latest 'favorite' motif from head to toe. Last, Dwemer has been around long enough that it is relatively easy to get, same with Daedric and Ancient Elf. Is everyone wearing one of these styles? No. People wear the style that appeals to them. Even if it were easy to get, some folks will not like the way Glass or Xivkyn look, and not use it.

If getting the new motifs were part of some content like quests, those who wore it would stand out as accomplished players. As it stands, the ones decked out in the new motif shout the message, "I like to grind, or have more gold than god". How does that contribute to the community?

From my perspective, regardless of whatever ZOS spouts, the DLC and new motifs were designed as money grabs first, and player enjoyment somewhere after that.

Calidus1

tactica wrote: »

Calidus1 wrote: »

I personally like that it is difficult to get the motifs. Its part of the fun to get them. And if it was easy, everyone could wear them.

I think one of the big differences here is people who play on console versus PC. Console players seem to be the most upset about how long everything will take. Conversely, PC players have been playing for a long time don't care that much. It is all relative; when you have spent a year researching every trait a month doesn't seem that long to work for a motif. Our servers are rich with resources and we want things to be hard so not everyone can get everything new right away. The devs need to strike a balance, which I think they have done well.

TL;DR if you're on a console don't worry about how long it will take to get good things and just enjoy the game

@Calidus1

1. I respectfully disagree with the majority of your premise... I don't believe its just Console players who most upset with the new design mechanic in IC for crafting... unless there are more console players than PC players, then by virtue of sheer volume, then yes, you may have a point... but percentages of players in each camp would be interesting to know, and how many of each are happy / not so happy / upset would be an interesting measure. Regardless - its a business, and consumers aren't happy. I'll leave it to ZoS to figure out exactly where that split lies, and how important it is for them to address.

2. I've spoken and heard from more than one PC player who is quite frankly displeased and vocal about the IC patch / dlc. There discontent is real in regards to the new crafting. You seem okay with it, if not fond of the quest - and that's great, but I'm not sure you speak for your peers and the PC crowd at large. If *most* of the PC players have the new motif's in a month, then I say bravo, but I'm not even sure that's true. If it were, one wonders if that's due to the large resources or player characters created over a year's time? If that were true, then one wonders how the console players can even hope to be on the same page? We couldn't... but I digress... No dobut plenty of die-hards with multiple characters to run will on the PC side, to your point, and props to them. However, it would seem there's likely more than one working stiff, mother, father out there who can't put in the days / time to have 8 leveled toons all running writs and generating materials just to hammer out the new sets, plus have time to game... and live a life in the real world... and finally on this point, if the business model ZoS is designing too is ONLY for the legacy PC players, with established resources and characters, then how will they ever grow or make money? This is a business model afterall. Talk about daunting for the new PC player... sheesh... Wouldn't that be a death nell to the entire project? What a horribly narrow sighted model that would be appealing to, if your premise were even remotely true.

2. Though I categorically disagree - let's go with your thought process for a sec. Let's say you are right... What *IF* most PC players were generally happy and used to the oh-so-long times to earn *whatever item* and *most* console players were not and fell into the generally more *upset* camp. Then, would it not make sense for ZoS to design their game accordingly? If you were correct, I would be all for ZoS to leave the Glass and Xivekyn motifs with epic time / resource quests in place for the lot of the PC crowd, but not so much for the Console players... Afterall, as you say, Console players are not used to this epic time suck. We do not know the world of the PC MMO game world experience, right? We have not had ESO as long it only released in July for us, and our patience does not allow for such things. We couldn't be expected to even understand how long the PC crowd is used to waiting for things... Therefore, unless ZoS also want to lose that business model, ZoS would recognize that they would need to design the content for that crowd, to that crowd on that platform - and thus, make it much more meaningful and realistic to earn for the crowd which - by your definition, doesn't have the patience for such things and is not used to such things on their platform.

I could support that... Afterall, I'm sure you are NOT suggesting the console players, adjust their established habbits. I'm sure you are not suggesting that an entire player base, one which is larger and paying and a new infusion of cash to ZoS, simply adjust to the habbits and playstyles of the PC sit and wait crowd, just because the PC players have larger resources and have been doing it for a year, right? We've only had the game since July. It's definitely NOT reasonable for us to want to buy content now, and wait another year to use it... essentially putting us on pace with where you are now - that's not what you are proposing, right?

+ + +

Now back to reality.

Not only do I disagree with your assessment of PC to Console player mentality, it also doesn't make sense. I'm not willing to shoehorn all people from one camp or another into a given mindset. It's a simpleton perspective of complex groups and solves nothing to do so. My hyberbole for example suggests supporting two different versions of the game in an unrealistic manner, so it's easier on console and long and painful on PC... which, would only make every PC player seriously question why they are going through the torture of staying on PC... and yeah, add-ons and customization is great, but at the cost of added time to do everything, it would be a mass exodus if you could get same enjoyment in a fraction of the time elsewhere. Sure, die-hards would stay, but time saved, is time saved, and more migration than has already occurred would continue. A lesser time to accomplish and longer time to accomplish version of the game, seperated by platform is a sure fire way to segment your playerbase even further, and likely result in the fallout of one of your groups. It also makes no sense.

Folks have lives outside of ESO my friend... and, we enjoy them. If motifs are only there for those who put countless hours after a year of play into the game, its already on its final days... writings on the wall. The GAME of ESO should not attempt to SUCK all the time up doing meaningless things... content is great, content is fun, and time spent in game should be used for things that are meaningful and enjoyable... not grinding.

Many console players came from PC. Many console players, like myself, own many PCs and have played many MMOs over the years. At 41 this year and worked in IT for more than half of those years, I could share more than one story about online gaming going back to LAN parties, mud's and ISP hosted servers that we used to maintain. It doesn't mean that in today's day and age, that what ZoS is doing and designing is reasonable. It just means, you accept it and would suggest others do the same.

+ + +

TL;DR - We will just have to agree to disagree.

Yeah........ i was just saying I was used to long waits and that I like how they are doing it because its fun to work towards it (three glass motifs already!). And since brevity is the soul of wit, I think you are right, and we will have to agree to disagree

helediron

Lately i have received maybe two glass fragments per day by doing all writs with six max level crafters. I collected fragments for latest motif page in four days. With that rate and VERY unscientific estimation i think it takes about two months for me to finish full glass motif assuming swapping duplicaes is possible. With one crafter it would take a year.

I need to follow the drop rates few weeks more to be more confident. It still may be that RNG is just making a fool of me.