This game is so disappointing because you have no freedom.

Xilc

JD2013 wrote: »

Zenimax are caught between a rock and a hard place. Trying to appease two groups of players who will never agree on things.

You say it like it's our fault that they are there, yet they decided to make an MMO. Much of us would have been satisfied with them rolling out another single player, but we rolled with the MMO style ESO. If they can't appease both groups, then the game will significantly die. I'll just say this... The amount of crown store items being put on there doesn't look healthy for a new mmo. Going free to play soon after release usually isn't a sign of well being in any game, historically speaking. After SWTOR went F2P, they began flooding their entire game with digital sale items, and then packs, and then began neglecting to focus on content updates because they have become so dependent on their digital store that it's no longer about gameplay, it's now about digital items. Do you want ESO to be that game? That game that barely puts out any fixes, any new content, just digital shop items? Do you?

Gidorick

Callous2208 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Xilc wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

So, why don't you just go play one of the other 5 TES games with your spouse and 2 friends @newtinmpls?

Gid asked sarcastically.

That actually puts a point on what I was trying to say. Personally I still have a lot of hope for ESO but a big part of me is pretty much...

The chosen one HOW exactly? Unrealistic expectations obviously leads to great disappointment.

Because out of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, and Star Wars, this was supposed to be the best MMO that ever came out... Except they lost their culture and made it generic, which is the last thing you really want to do.

I see where you're coming from but keep this in mind. There are just as many or more threads in which people are raging mad because this isn't enough like a generic mmo. I'm not really sure if they'll ever be able to please both crowds.

But I think people who are upset this isn't more like a TES game are more justified than those who are upset it's not more generic. ZOS is saying 'Play Elder Scrolls with Friends" not "Play an MMO in Tamriel"....which would be equally descriptive of ESO.

ESO's current situation is that instead of taking the unique strengths of MMOs and TES games and mixing those to make a new experience ZOS took what was sort-of similar between them and made TES and MMO meet in the middle and ended up not pleasing EITHER group of individuals.

I actually 100% support those that want floaty numbers, name plates (contextual of course... shouldn't be a "OVER HERE!!!!" sign), minimaps, and the like. I am not a "play my way or no way" kind of fellow. I'm a "it's possible for all of us to have the options we want" kind of fellow.

I feel the same. I'm just not too optimistic that there's a solution to appease both crowds. Pulling from the strengths of one would surely be to the detriment of the other. It was ambitious but I don't think enough people are of a mind as ours. Luckily for me I fall into the third category of folks who loved mmo's and the Scrolls series and couldn't be more pleased about how this turned out.

I call my outlook and hopefulness being "willfully naïve".

I am pleased with ESO as a beginning. I LOVE ESO. I wouldn't have spent as much time on this forum suggesting ideas if I didn't. (check out my repository link in my signature). I just got to the point where I lost the motivation to play because the things I felt were missing from ESO became... distracting. I still go on regularly but I haven't put serious time into ESO for a while now.

uriangelub17_ESO

I like how to the game looks.
I feel since I'm playing a heavy lore game I should read the quests, yes, they can be interesting, but they're taking way too much time.
It's like everytime I get a quest, the NPC is giving me a monologue and I have to sit there listening. Not only this, they speak with a rythm proper for an 90 year old. It's like they want me to waste even more time listening to them

Plus the lack of accents, mannerism, make things worst. I think the only decent NPC is that guy Gauntier or something, at least he's sorta funny.
Imo they should've gone the way Borderlands did. NPCs there had character, and the voiceovers were great. Even the guy from Skyrim had a strange accent that kept you engaged.

If I don't listen to quests, I feel I'll have a more enjoyable experience overall. I knew this was an MMO so no freedom like Skyrim, but at least don't bore me to death with monologues and the same voice pattern on every quest.
It's like the NPC don't even care what you do.
And why do I even get the chance to reply? All I say are useless things that have no impact whatsoever.

I would rather have lore scattered though books, notes left by adventures and so on.

The rest of the game? Looks great, except the loading times, endless crashes at random points when I'm loading a new map.

I'm only level 31, and I play Rift like 6 hours a day. For some odd reason I just can't make myself play this game more. I just don't feel it.

I'm trying to play it because I like how it looks, but questing makes my life miserable.
I'm gonna try skipping dialogs like in every single MMO I've ever played.

Xilc

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4
Even famous YouTube celebrities have said the same things I have here. "...none of it truly feels like an effective MMO extension of Elder Scrolls. It's got the look, but none of the heart and soul" -Angry Joe, 1:00 in the video. So to say that I'm wrong about what I'm saying about not feeling like Elder Scrolls? Not likely.

newtinmpls

uriangelub17_ESO wrote: »

If I don't listen to quests, I feel I'll have a more enjoyable experience overall. I knew this was an MMO so no freedom like Skyrim, but at least don't bore me to death with monologues and the same voice pattern on every quest.
It's like the NPC don't even care what you do.
And why do I even get the chance to reply? All I say are useless things that have no impact whatsoever.

I reply because it changes my experience of the game. When I and friends are on, listening to - and interrupting and arguing with the quest-giver it is a LOT more fun.

Of course I come from the generation of people that could have fun as children playing with a cardboard box - it's what you put into the experience (which I suppose is one reason why we've been able to 'translate' from RPG).

That being the case - sometimes I'm not in a dialogue-y mood, and will skip chunks of it.

Sometimes, despite the fact that I did it before it's been ... months and I'm riveted all over again by the story.

Shunravi

newtinmpls wrote: »

uriangelub17_ESO wrote: »

If I don't listen to quests, I feel I'll have a more enjoyable experience overall. I knew this was an MMO so no freedom like Skyrim, but at least don't bore me to death with monologues and the same voice pattern on every quest.
It's like the NPC don't even care what you do.
And why do I even get the chance to reply? All I say are useless things that have no impact whatsoever.

I reply because it changes my experience of the game. When I and friends are on, listening to - and interrupting and arguing with the quest-giver it is a LOT more fun.

Of course I come from the generation of people that could have fun as children playing with a cardboard box - it's what you put into the experience (which I suppose is one reason why we've been able to 'translate' from RPG).

That being the case - sometimes I'm not in a dialogue-y mood, and will skip chunks of it.

Sometimes, despite the fact that I did it before it's been ... months and I'm riveted all over again by the story.

Aye, I've been questing on-and-off on my alt, and I've been really enjoying the dialogue again.

Xilc

Playing with a cardboard box is a sandbox type of gameplay, because there's no right way to do it. That's exactly what was so fun about Elder Scrolls.

Xilc

JD2013 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

ESO's current situation is that instead of taking the unique strengths of MMOs and TES games and mixing those to make a new experience ZOS took what was sort-of similar between them and made TES and MMO meet in the middle and ended up not pleasing EITHER group of individuals.
I actually 100% support those that want floaty numbers, name plates (contextual of course... shouldn't be a "OVER HERE!!!!" sign), minimaps, and the like. I am not a "play my way or no way" kind of fellow. I'm a "it's possible for all of us to have the options we want" kind of fellow.

I wholeheartedly agree with you by the way on the bolded part of your message there's a lot that can be done to make the game appease both, but shouldn't the focus be on Elder Scrolls fans first and MMO players after?

Callous2208

Xilc wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Zenimax are caught between a rock and a hard place. Trying to appease two groups of players who will never agree on things.

Going free to play soon after release usually isn't a sign of well being in any game, historically speaking. After SWTOR went F2P, they began flooding their entire game with digital sale items, and then packs, and then began neglecting to focus on content updates because they have become so dependent on their digital store that it's no longer about gameplay, it's now about digital items. Do you want ESO to be that game? That game that barely puts out any fixes, any new content, just digital shop items? Do you?

ESO never went free to play though. SWTOR did though, you are correct.

MamaDruid

Sure, I certainly numbered among those who expected to experience an open world and was disappointed to discover that would not be the case. I accepted the parameters presented to me, just like any other MMO, and continue to play.

Just a few things I want to fix here...

Xilc wrote: »

I was excited to explore Daggerfall, Highrock, Summerset Isles... All of the places you couldn't visit before because they hadn't yet launched a game for it as they had with Oblivion (Cyrodiil), Skyrim, or Morrowind. That's why many of us were excited for this game.... Only to be disappointed because we can't even roam over into the Rift or to Summerset if we are the wrong faction.

Ignoring those who focus on one character, solution=eight character slots. With 2 megaservers per platform (computer, PS4, and Xbox 360) you can have a total of 48 characters.

Xilc wrote: »

Here? The possibilities are limited, unless you're willing to throw down some cold hard cash, and even that won't let you go to Summerset if you're Daggerfall/Ebonheart until you max out. I'm just saying, this MMO can't possibly compete with others that allow you to roam around freely if you have to pay extra cash, and can't even do the same.

I'm assuming you are referencing the cost of the Imperial Edition with which you receive the ability to play any race on any faction. If my assumption is correct, then you are wrong. The possibilities are still limited regardless how much money you spend on the game and/or in the crown store.

Anorak

Xilc wrote: »

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4
Even famous YouTube celebrities have said the same things I have here. "...none of it truly feels like an effective MMO extension of Elder Scrolls. It's got the look, but none of the heart and soul" -Angry Joe, 1:00 in the video. So to say that I'm wrong about what I'm saying about not feeling like Elder Scrolls? Not likely.

Im just going to hop in here and say that source isn't valid as Joe did not show any game play past level 15 and only hated on the game because it became the "cool" thing to hate on. Honestly watch his videos and notice how he is extremely one sided by saying "5/10 painfully average" if it was below average say so and reflect it in the rating. You can see that the majority of the review is based on personal opinion not fact.

DaveMoeDee

Anlaemar wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Anlaemar wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Anlaemar wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Bah, let me quote an old post of mine here on how I feel the game should have let you play and why the current system isn't as free as you might think.

The idea to force people into a Faction at Character creation was a mistake for an Elder Scrolls game, even if it is the first online endeavor. The entire Main Story, Fighters Guild and Mages Guild isn't even intertwined with anything going on in Cyrodiil, bar some mentions of it in dialogue. Even the Alliance Story questlines in each zone only mention the war and you fight an opposing factions NPCs occasionally, but that's it until you actually go to Cyrodiil yourself. All the above dialogue could easily be altered to make a bit more sense to someone that isn't affiliate with any alliance at all.

The only choice you should have made in Character creation is which City to start in. In fact they should have only let you make a decision on the Alliance you wish to represent after you have experienced all 3 Alliance stories. Until then, while in Cyrodiil, all 3 Alliances are considered your enemy. This would actually give you somewhat more of an incentive to finish the Alliance stories and afterwards pick an Alliance so at least you'd have a third of the map friendly.

Another world design that should have never happened is the splitting of the 3 Alliance areas into separate instances depending on Alliance choice. This should have been nothing more than picking a City to start in, period. If a friend started in Stonefalls, another in Auridon and you picked Glenumbra, you all should have been able to meet up somewhere an any Alliance zone and Cyrodiil shouldn't feel so cut off from the rest of the world by not being allowed to zone in from the border gates like any other area. I believe this would just make for a better MMO overall, the current system has split the player base too much and makes for a less "alive" world.

This just goes back to the question of should this be more like an MMO or a single player ES game. They're trying to find the balance.

With freedom to explore existing within both open world single player games and MMORPGs, what balance is needed in that?

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/216607/battle-leveling-and-reverse-battle-leveling-zones#latest

Why bother with leveling at all?

Because its only base stats being leveled. Gear, and champion points for that matter, is still very important to be effective. Example is a level 9 player battle leveled to V10 zone with level 9 gear, they for sure aren't going to get even 5k+ single target DPS even if they're "specing" for it.

Then get to your average dungeon runs. Your L9 player isn't going to be "Battle Leveled" to your V16 dungeon run. I think I make my point there.

This idea makes the game more SOLO FRIENDLY. This doesn't change the face of group play. You'll still want to level if you want to be competitive in group PvE content, let alone participate in most.

So if you want gear to be tied to level, what would drop if a VR16 decides to play the intro zone? What if a VR1 decides to play the highest level zone? If the VR1 decides to play in the highest level zone, are they going to get drops in that high level? I would assume a level 10 battle leveled to level 40 would get level 10 drops. Then, if they are doing a level 10 zone at level 40 because they skipped it earlier, they would again get level 10 drops.

If that is going to happen, why bother having leveled zones?

Personally, I prefer having an order to the narrative, but I can see the value in the alternate system, despite my questions.

Asherons_Call

I don't fully understand the issue here. Each zone/ map is gigantic and there are what? 15-20 zones? I don't feel at all like I'm trapped in a linear area.

I do however miss the supermap that was Asherons call though. You could literally run for an hour and not get from one end to the other. There were no such thing as "zones" until they introduced expansions. The only thing that really kept low lev players from going wherever they wanted was mobs 100+ levels above them that would tear them a new hole if you strayed too far from your starter town

MamaDruid

newtinmpls wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Been playing since the start, to fully clear an area you need less than 6 hours, that includes all quests, points of interest, dolmens, etc..it's ez

For you.

For me, six hours means I probably took riding lessons (if I thought of it) wandered around, picked up 20-30 resources, looted any weapon racks I found and maybe mailed a few things to my "send this back to me so I can decon it" friend.

Explored 3-4 steps of 3-4 quests (I usually finish a few then start a few so there are always quests and stuff overlapping) maybe found 3-4 skyshards.... maybe one in a delve. Tried a dolmen.

In terms of the map of the zone - I maybe covered a 10th of it in those 6 hours. Maybe.

Are you my doppelgänger @newtinmpls? Like I've said before, I'll probably never level a single character to 50.

Vangy

scaling things to an individuals character level in a non-instanced open world setting would be a feat no Mmo has ever accomplished I think. This would be awesome but as an engineer and programmer myself, I can tell u this is a dream..... The amount of work and effort it would take not to mention the gazillion bugs and exploits that would be happening would crush this game. It's definetely an amazing concept. But sadly it's more of a dream then a possibility in mmos. Too many clients to cater to.

Carde

This game will never truly blossom until its not considered an MMO or an Elder Scrolls game, but an Elder Scrolls MMO.

Also Angry Joe is a schmuck, his negative reviews from not having fun on his way to level 15 helped sink this game into the miasma its in right now. All those negative reviews from the handful of press that got put on the PTS with us right before launch were very salty that this wasn't Skyrim-y enough, and right after that is when we started to see "the changes".

newtinmpls

MamaDruid wrote: »

Are you my doppelgänger @newtinmpls? Like I've said before, I'll probably never level a single character to 50.

<chuckle> Obviously you have good taste in playstyle!


Which makes me think about all the "pay to win" stuff. I guess I don't really care about winning, getting to the top level, getting the "best" gear.

But if it takes money (eventually) to function in this game and have fun ... that would be a problem. We are not there yet.

No I don't have the "freedom" to do "everything" on my new character 15 min after I roll him up. But I wouldn't want that anyway. I am enjoying the journey.

Xilc

Carde wrote: »

This game will never truly blossom until its not considered an MMO or an Elder Scrolls game, but an Elder Scrolls MMO.

Also Angry Joe is a schmuck, his negative reviews from not having fun on his way to level 15 helped sink this game into the miasma its in right now. All those negative reviews from the handful of press that got put on the PTS with us right before launch were very salty that this wasn't Skyrim-y enough, and right after that is when we started to see "the changes".

So Angry Joe (and the other critics) are schmucks because they expressed how disappointing the game actually was despite its 200 million dollar budget? It was their fault for advertising it and creating the expectation that it would be very Skyrim-y. Did you even see the cinematic trailer for the game? That was the expectation. If that was the trailer for Skyrim, I would believe it, I would. But that cinematic for ESO? No way. They buried themselves by falsely marketing/advertising it as something that it wasn't. Don't blame them for telling the truth.

Xilc

MamaDruid wrote: »

Sure, I certainly numbered among those who expected to experience an open world and was disappointed to discover that would not be the case. I accepted the parameters presented to me, just like any other MMO, and continue to play.

Just a few things I want to fix here...

Xilc wrote: »

I was excited to explore Daggerfall, Highrock, Summerset Isles... All of the places you couldn't visit before because they hadn't yet launched a game for it as they had with Oblivion (Cyrodiil), Skyrim, or Morrowind. That's why many of us were excited for this game.... Only to be disappointed because we can't even roam over into the Rift or to Summerset if we are the wrong faction.

Ignoring those who focus on one character, solution=eight character slots. With 2 megaservers per platform (computer, PS4, and Xbox 360) you can have a total of 48 characters.

No one in their right mind would make 48 characters... Let alone even 8, especially because it costs around 50$ per horse just to get one of their 3 attributes to 60 from the crown store. This game is very harsh and unforgiving to making a new character. If you've played for 6 months and decide to make an alt, it will be literally 60-120 days minimum before you can even have a fast horse, unless you spend an extra 50-100$ on top of your 15 a month. I'm sorry but I wouldn't shell out a car payment just for a faster horse, so I'm with everyone else that doesn't want to make 8 characters and just sticks to one. They designed their entire game so having multiple characters is costly and unfair.

newtinmpls

Xilc wrote: »

No one in their right mind would make 48 characters... Let alone even 8, especially because it costs around 50$ per horse just to get one of their 3 attributes to 60 from the crown store.

<trying to look serious and interested>

Snicker.... giggle

<failing completely>

He he he he he ... no stop..... oh ... that is just so funny to me this morning ... evening .. what the heck time is it where I am anyway?!

Need more coffee ... snicker...

Oh my god that just made my day. I have 16 characters (finally got my 16th nailed down; imperial magicka templar, sister to a friend's character) on NA, and so far 3 more on EU and the idea that I would pay actual money for riding lessons.....

Oh my god that's just funny. Yes I am slow (on some characters). But paying? For riding lessons?

<chuckle>

You are just adorable.

Anorak

Xilc wrote: »

MamaDruid wrote: »

Sure, I certainly numbered among those who expected to experience an open world and was disappointed to discover that would not be the case. I accepted the parameters presented to me, just like any other MMO, and continue to play.

Just a few things I want to fix here...

Xilc wrote: »

I was excited to explore Daggerfall, Highrock, Summerset Isles... All of the places you couldn't visit before because they hadn't yet launched a game for it as they had with Oblivion (Cyrodiil), Skyrim, or Morrowind. That's why many of us were excited for this game.... Only to be disappointed because we can't even roam over into the Rift or to Summerset if we are the wrong faction.

Ignoring those who focus on one character, solution=eight character slots. With 2 megaservers per platform (computer, PS4, and Xbox 360) you can have a total of 48 characters.

No one in their right mind would make 48 characters... Let alone even 8, especially because it costs around 50$ per horse just to get one of their 3 attributes to 60 from the crown store. This game is very harsh and unforgiving to making a new character. If you've played for 6 months and decide to make an alt, it will be literally 60-120 days minimum before you can even have a fast horse, unless you spend an extra 50-100$ on top of your 15 a month. I'm sorry but I wouldn't shell out a car payment just for a faster horse, so I'm with everyone else that doesn't want to make 8 characters and just sticks to one. They designed their entire game so having multiple characters is costly and unfair.

Yea its sad they made the crown store mandatory and your horse can't level at all. It really sucks I hated that update. I also hated the update were they made speed buffs snares on yourself for 80% because they said people were not buying from the crown store. Idk why I play this game.

Xilc

newtinmpls wrote: »

MamaDruid wrote: »

Are you my doppelgänger @newtinmpls? Like I've said before, I'll probably never level a single character to 50.

<chuckle> Obviously you have good taste in playstyle!


Which makes me think about all the "pay to win" stuff. I guess I don't really care about winning, getting to the top level, getting the "best" gear. Guaranteeably, you lie far outside of the median (speaking statistically) of all characters. Don't you think it's a bad system that you have to level the riding of each character individually? God forbid something comes up that one day and you can't log into all 8 of your chars and buy them.

But if it takes money (eventually) to function in this game and have fun ... that would be a problem. We are not there yet.

No I don't have the "freedom" to do "everything" on my new character 15 min after I roll him up. But I wouldn't want that anyway. I am enjoying the journey.

It's just kind of sad that we have to put being the best/winning/etc on the backburner just because we don't want to buy stuff with real money. Pretty sad indeed.

newtinmpls wrote: »

Xilc wrote: »

Oh my god that just made my day. I have 16 characters (finally got my 16th nailed down; imperial magicka templar, sister to a friend's character) on NA, and so far 3 more on EU and the idea that I would pay actual money for riding lessons.....

Oh my god that's just funny. Yes I am slow (on some characters). But paying? For riding lessons?

<chuckle>

You are just adorable.

newtinmpls

Something is weird with quoting...

@Xilc said:

Guaranteeably, you lie far outside of the median (speaking statistically) of all characters. Don't you think it's a bad system that you have to level the riding of each character individually? God forbid something comes up that one day and you can't log into all 8 of your chars and buy them.

My reply:

I doubt there has ever been a day when I did actually do riding skills on all my 16 characters .... the 3 in EU don't have horses.

@Xilc said:

It's just kind of sad that we have to put being the best/winning/etc on the backburner just because we don't want to buy stuff with real money. Pretty sad indeed.

My reply:

For me this is an mmoRPG, not an MMOrpg, so there is no "winning". There is just playing, sharing fun with others and enjoying myself. I use my skype icon to cover up the telvar stone display when I am in IC so I won't stress out about how many I have, lost or whatever. I really like this universe, and exploring it.

For me to play is to win, so I win all the time.

nimander99

Freedom isnt free it costs $1.05 USD

Callous2208

nimander99 wrote: »

Freedom isnt free it costs $1.05 USD

I thought it was about tree fiddy.

Slylok

Anorak wrote: »

Xilc wrote: »

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3B26h12C4
Even famous YouTube celebrities have said the same things I have here. "...none of it truly feels like an effective MMO extension of Elder Scrolls. It's got the look, but none of the heart and soul" -Angry Joe, 1:00 in the video. So to say that I'm wrong about what I'm saying about not feeling like Elder Scrolls? Not likely.

Im just going to hop in here and say that source isn't valid as Joe did not show any game play past level 15 and only hated on the game because it became the "cool" thing to hate on. Honestly watch his videos and notice how he is extremely one sided by saying "5/10 painfully average" if it was below average say so and reflect it in the rating. You can see that the majority of the review is based on personal opinion not fact.

Joe started out loving the game actually. His view was slowly swayed by those he played with that harped on every little thing. Those people basically were expecting Skyrim Online and anything that wasnt exactly like Skyrim then it was instantly bad to them.

In the end it doesnt matter what others say.. Do I enjoy the game? Sure do. I even think it is the best MMORPG on the market right now for PC and Console. All 3 platforms have plenty of players as well that also enjoy the game.

Carde

Xilc wrote: »

Carde wrote: »

This game will never truly blossom until its not considered an MMO or an Elder Scrolls game, but an Elder Scrolls MMO.

Also Angry Joe is a schmuck, his negative reviews from not having fun on his way to level 15 helped sink this game into the miasma its in right now. All those negative reviews from the handful of press that got put on the PTS with us right before launch were very salty that this wasn't Skyrim-y enough, and right after that is when we started to see "the changes".

So Angry Joe (and the other critics) are schmucks because they expressed how disappointing the game actually was despite its 200 million dollar budget? It was their fault for advertising it and creating the expectation that it would be very Skyrim-y. Did you even see the cinematic trailer for the game? That was the expectation. If that was the trailer for Skyrim, I would believe it, I would. But that cinematic for ESO? No way. They buried themselves by falsely marketing/advertising it as something that it wasn't. Don't blame them for telling the truth.

Yes, anyone who didn't realize that TESO wasn't Skyrim Junior (or hell, can't get OVER Skyrim at this point, its been years its not the end all of the series, let it go) is a schmuck. Its like reviewers complaining about WoW because it isn't an RTS. GET OVER IT. Different games are different.

Different games are different.

Different games.

Different.

edited to be a little nicer for the mods