Black Rose set is overloaded

Mr_Koh

The 5 piece set gives a 50% bonus to constitution and weapon damage? Tanks should be tanky, they shouldn't hit like trucks. The weapon damage isn't necessary, and no other set gives this huge of a 5 pc. "do I want to be tanky or do I want to hit hard" these are the questions a player should have to ask themselves when choosing a heavy armor set up instead of thinking "oh let me get heavy armor so I can do both"

Also medium armor sets should be made to fit a medium armor playstyle which is burst/stam sustain. All the new sets do not synergize with medium armor game play.

Teargrants

Mr_Koh wrote: »

The 5 piece set gives a 50% bonus to constitution and weapon damage? Tanks should be tanky, they shouldn't hit like trucks. The weapon damage isn't necessary, and no other set gives this huge of a 5 pc. "do I want to be tanky or do I want to hit hard" these are the questions a player should have to ask themselves when choosing a heavy armor set up instead of thinking "oh let me get heavy armor so I can do both"

Also medium armor sets should be made to fit a medium armor playstyle which is burst/stam sustain. All the new sets do not synergize with medium armor game play.

This thread is a joke, right?

Like, you know what Constitution does, right? 50% more resource return on nothing is still nothing. One wep/spell dmg bonus on the 5 piece is crap as well, there are plenty of heavy sets that have 2 spell or wep dmg bonuses, a la Storm Knight & Ravager. Black Rose will not make you tanky or high dmg, if you think it will do either, you live in some kind of fantasy world.

hrothbern

@Mr_Koh,
The set is now a Jack of all Trades and like somebody else remarked, after the nerf DURING the PTS, "garbage

In the first weeks of PTS, the 5 item bonus returned in average 180 Stamina per hit when blocking.
This made perma Block to easy and subsequently the set was nerfed DURING PTS

I hope that this was only a placeholder fix and ZOS Will think out something beter....

I ageer that this damage increase is inconsistent with the filosophy of HA

Aerius_Sygale

Teargrants wrote: »

Mr_Koh wrote: »

The 5 piece set gives a 50% bonus to constitution and weapon damage? Tanks should be tanky, they shouldn't hit like trucks. The weapon damage isn't necessary, and no other set gives this huge of a 5 pc. "do I want to be tanky or do I want to hit hard" these are the questions a player should have to ask themselves when choosing a heavy armor set up instead of thinking "oh let me get heavy armor so I can do both"

Also medium armor sets should be made to fit a medium armor playstyle which is burst/stam sustain. All the new sets do not synergize with medium armor game play.

This thread is a joke, right?

Like, you know what Constitution does, right? 50% more resource return on nothing is still nothing. One wep/spell dmg bonus on the 5 piece is crap as well, there are plenty of heavy sets that have 2 spell or wep dmg bonuses, a la Storm Knight & Ravager. Black Rose will not make you tanky or high dmg, if you think it will do either, you live in some kind of fantasy world.

He does: Tamriel.

Mr_Koh

Teargrants wrote: »

Mr_Koh wrote: »

The 5 piece set gives a 50% bonus to constitution and weapon damage? Tanks should be tanky, they shouldn't hit like trucks. The weapon damage isn't necessary, and no other set gives this huge of a 5 pc. "do I want to be tanky or do I want to hit hard" these are the questions a player should have to ask themselves when choosing a heavy armor set up instead of thinking "oh let me get heavy armor so I can do both"

Also medium armor sets should be made to fit a medium armor playstyle which is burst/stam sustain. All the new sets do not synergize with medium armor game play.

This thread is a joke, right?

Like, you know what Constitution does, right? 50% more resource return on nothing is still nothing. One wep/spell dmg bonus on the 5 piece is crap as well, there are plenty of heavy sets that have 2 spell or wep dmg bonuses, a la Storm Knight & Ravager. Black Rose will not make you tanky or high dmg, if you think it will do either, you live in some kind of fantasy world.

You're talking nonsense saying 50% of nothing is nothing. How do you expect to have a conversation about this when you're spitting out false math.

Ahzek

but 50% of 0 is 0. So his math is correct there. The point he is trying to make, which you seem unable to comprehend, is that constitution sucks. Royally.
at best its about 360 resources per tick (every 4 seconds) so the 5 piece of black rose equates a hilarious 90 stam/mag/hp regeneration. If you really think that is too strong, combined with a basic wweapn and spelldamage bonus (like molag kena has on1 piece) then you are either very "special" or trolling.

Pirhana7_ESO

Mr_Koh wrote: »

The 5 piece set gives a 50% bonus to constitution and weapon damage? Tanks should be tanky, they shouldn't hit like trucks. The weapon damage isn't necessary, and no other set gives this huge of a 5 pc. "do I want to be tanky or do I want to hit hard" these are the questions a player should have to ask themselves when choosing a heavy armor set up instead of thinking "oh let me get heavy armor so I can do both"

Also medium armor sets should be made to fit a medium armor playstyle which is burst/stam sustain. All the new sets do not synergize with medium armor game play.

Just so you know Constitution is NOT your hitpoint pool. its a passive skill in the heavy armor line that gives you a very small amount of resources when you are hit and even has a cooldown.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

Tanks are supposed to hold the aggro of mobs, the only way they can do that is to be a higher threat then spell casters. Personally what I would do with threat generation is base it on HP and armour and not damaged caused, that way your tanks will get the aggro and do what they always wanted to do instead of running around the place in full plate armour. It be a hard formula to get right.

traigusb14_ESO2

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Tanks are supposed to hold the aggro of mobs, the only way they can do that is to be a higher threat then spell casters. Personally what I would do with threat generation is base it on HP and armour and not damaged caused, that way your tanks will get the aggro and do what they always wanted to do instead of running around the place in full plate armour. It be a hard formula to get right.

Taunts don't work like that in ESO. They are on/off. Tanks don't have to outdamage to taunt, they just use taunt skills and instantly get it.

Tanks often use an AOE to get first aggro so they can get set up to taunt stuff... After that, untaunted mobs can leave anytime they are hit, amount of damage doesn't matter

Ishammael

Teargrants wrote: »

Mr_Koh wrote: »

The 5 piece set gives a 50% bonus to constitution and weapon damage? Tanks should be tanky, they shouldn't hit like trucks. The weapon damage isn't necessary, and no other set gives this huge of a 5 pc. "do I want to be tanky or do I want to hit hard" these are the questions a player should have to ask themselves when choosing a heavy armor set up instead of thinking "oh let me get heavy armor so I can do both"

Also medium armor sets should be made to fit a medium armor playstyle which is burst/stam sustain. All the new sets do not synergize with medium armor game play.

This thread is a joke, right?

Like, you know what Constitution does, right? 50% more resource return on nothing is still nothing. One wep/spell dmg bonus on the 5 piece is crap as well, there are plenty of heavy sets that have 2 spell or wep dmg bonuses, a la Storm Knight & Ravager. Black Rose will not make you tanky or high dmg, if you think it will do either, you live in some kind of fantasy world.

While I do not agree with the OP, I disagree with your disregard of the set. The 5 piece bonus is 150 dmg, making it about 20% stronger than a normal set bonus. Add the constitution upgrade and it's a solid choice. Since the damage bonus is both spell and weapon damage, you can use it as a magicka build -- DK and Templar builds like the extra stam.

I think it's a solid set, not OP or UP.

Leonis

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Tanks are supposed to hold the aggro of mobs, the only way they can do that is to be a higher threat then spell casters. Personally what I would do with threat generation is base it on HP and armour and not damaged caused, that way your tanks will get the aggro and do what they always wanted to do instead of running around the place in full plate armour. It be a hard formula to get right.

There are no threat level/generation for tank in this game. You taunt and you have the agro for 15 sec, and now you can taunt again and again.

Callous2208

I have the set. It now sits for rp purposes only. Trust me, it's okay, not even close to great. It will never see the light of day outside of strapping it on for the look.

AhPook_Is_Here

Even if the weapon power bonus is decent it doesn't make a person in heavy armor have more net weapon power than a person in even an old DPS medium set due to armor passives. That set isn't going to make heavy armor keep up with someone in medium in terms of dps.

Teargrants

Mr_Koh wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Mr_Koh wrote: »

The 5 piece set gives a 50% bonus to constitution and weapon damage? Tanks should be tanky, they shouldn't hit like trucks. The weapon damage isn't necessary, and no other set gives this huge of a 5 pc. "do I want to be tanky or do I want to hit hard" these are the questions a player should have to ask themselves when choosing a heavy armor set up instead of thinking "oh let me get heavy armor so I can do both"

Also medium armor sets should be made to fit a medium armor playstyle which is burst/stam sustain. All the new sets do not synergize with medium armor game play.

This thread is a joke, right?

Like, you know what Constitution does, right? 50% more resource return on nothing is still nothing. One wep/spell dmg bonus on the 5 piece is crap as well, there are plenty of heavy sets that have 2 spell or wep dmg bonuses, a la Storm Knight & Ravager. Black Rose will not make you tanky or high dmg, if you think it will do either, you live in some kind of fantasy world.

You're talking nonsense saying 50% of nothing is nothing. How do you expect to have a conversation about this when you're spitting out false math.

I beg your pardon? Clearly you have never leveled, let alone used heavy armor.

False math? This is Constitution w/ 5 heavy on:

That's right, 247 every 4 seconds. 50% increase makes that 370 every 4 seconds, a 123 increse. In other words the equivalent of adding 61 points of regen. SIXTY. ONE. POINTS. It is so negligible as to be for all intents and purposes, nothing.

The only other noticeable change would be another 10% on health regen, the least important stat in essentially any build in the game, given the strength of active healing in comparison.

Please do your research before forming a rebuttal next time.

Teargrants

[...]

Ok thanks, but talking like a 13 yr old doesn't help your case.

7 heavy instead of 5 isn't going to increase it by any appreciable margin, and yes 61 regen is entirely negligible in a game where ppl average 2k+ regen in their main stat. Now, I didn't think I'd have to explain it, but perhaps I do, that 61 regen equivalent from Constitution only applies if you're taking dmg, and that taking dmg only procs on dmg done to your health bar, not a dmg shield. In other words, it's not even the equivalent of 61 actual regen because of these constraints.

The only crying I see in this thread is you, crying that 50% boost to Constitution + spell/wep dmg somehow makes ppl who wear this set both "tanky" and "hit hard".

Sorry, but interspersing each sentence with an insult doesn't win debates.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Also the weapon damage is about the same as a legendary weapon glyph, a little bit more.

This is not an OP set and not as amazing as everyone says it is. You could run hundings/dreugh king with regen food and have a much greater impact than this set.

Mighty_oakk

[...]

lol 'your big words'

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Torbschka

sorry for my power of necromancing, but does the passive also increase your life reg, cuz it is also mentioned in the passive of "constitution"?

code65536

Torbschka wrote: »

sorry for my power of necromancing, but does the passive also increase your life reg, cuz it is also mentioned in the passive of "constitution"?

No. Only the resource return, not health.

AngryNord

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

full plate armour.

isn't that supposed to be the signature of a tank?

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

AngryNord wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

full plate armour.

isn't that supposed to be the signature of a tank?

Sorry not sure what you are asking here from the 3 words you are quoting from me? Although it's pretty clear from my statement that yes tanks are supposed to be in heavy armour, but not running around like headless chickens trying to maintain aggro.

Dredlord

Mr_Koh wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Mr_Koh wrote: »

The 5 piece set gives a 50% bonus to constitution and weapon damage? Tanks should be tanky, they shouldn't hit like trucks. The weapon damage isn't necessary, and no other set gives this huge of a 5 pc. "do I want to be tanky or do I want to hit hard" these are the questions a player should have to ask themselves when choosing a heavy armor set up instead of thinking "oh let me get heavy armor so I can do both"

Also medium armor sets should be made to fit a medium armor playstyle which is burst/stam sustain. All the new sets do not synergize with medium armor game play.

This thread is a joke, right?

Like, you know what Constitution does, right? 50% more resource return on nothing is still nothing. One wep/spell dmg bonus on the 5 piece is crap as well, there are plenty of heavy sets that have 2 spell or wep dmg bonuses, a la Storm Knight & Ravager. Black Rose will not make you tanky or high dmg, if you think it will do either, you live in some kind of fantasy world.

You're talking nonsense saying 50% of nothing is nothing. How do you expect to have a conversation about this when you're spitting out false math.

Perhaps you would like to check his math with your calculator and get back to us.