Where did my magicka go?

Ezareth

Alucardo wrote: »

Can confirm I lost 200 magicka regeneration in Cyrodiil. It returned when I tele'd back to bangkorai

If you're not Vet16 you may be "Battle Levelled" to Vet 16 which is probably not a good thing if you're Vet 14 to Vet 15.
Vet battle levelling is something introduced with the patch to mainly to help Vet 1s and such remain effective instead of losing a huge amount of stats from level 49 to Vet1.

MissBizz wrote: »

Thanks Gina. @Leandor Mind taking screencaps of identical live vs PTS builds and posting them here, and I'll do the same? I imagine our builds will very and maybe we'll be able to spot

Ezareth wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

This isn't a complaint thread, its a genuine question. I am not a min maxer, but I do like to think through my builds to ensure they are good. I don't just play eeni meeni miny mo to pick abilities.

I am a high elf Templar healer. Vet 14. Was wearing VR14 seducer and 5pc VR13 healer gear. I ensured ALL passives from every possible line I used were bought, along with racial ones. I did run with my old bar but I was absolutely out of magicka far more often that normal. I was running mostly skills from my Templar healing line and resto, with a splash of skills to help DPS. I like to use utility/buffs to help the group. I reread the patch notes and just cannot find why this is now happening.

This is in PvE dungeons. Are there any changes people have noticed that were not in, or were not apparent in the patch notes that is causing this? I know I will need to play around and test stuff out, and I will. But a helping hand in knowing what is causing this issue will likely speed up my process of knowing what to change to help myself.

Oh. And yes. I have my mundus stone.

I'm not including specific skills because I do switch up my bar in dungeons to better accommodate the group I am running with, the boss we are on etc. But templar abilities and resto abilities are the lines most of my skills are from.

@MissBizz

Many Possibilities that would have an impact on your sustain

Many of the formulas changed. Racials, Emperor Passives, and Werewolf/Vampire bonus used to be multiplicative and are now additive

Cost reduction was reduced further by another ~1.5% in 1.6 the totality of your cost reduction whether additive or subtractive was multiplied by ~.877% before it was calculated. In 2.1 it is multiplied by ~.8625 (this affects Restoring Spirit, Light armor passive, and Seducer but not champion points)

Additionally the costs of all abilities increased by ~1.75% as your vet levels increase. You had to have at least been V15.

Drink is no longer multiplicative with Magicka regen CP Passive (This is a known bug).

Vamprism must have a vampire ability slotted to receive the 10% magicka regen

Emperor passives are gone (if you had these)

You lost any Cyrodiil buffs you had which would have lowered your spell power and crit and thus required spamming heals more

@Ezareth Alright, so essentially what you're telling me... is even if my racial passives didn't "change" the outcome still did because the math is done different? Oh my.. I'm not going to be sure how to overcome that. lol

I did forget about the Cyrodiil buffs being gone, although I was in a campaign that didn't always have them before - but that definitely still could be part of it.

As well the cost reduction math changes most definitely sound like they would be part of my problem. As you noted I used quite a few things that offer that benefit.

Emperor passives. Hah. HAH. HAH. Nope. Once I get EVERY other achievement in game, THEN I'll try for that one.. it's a ways off

I don't use drinks, but that sounds like an avenue to try when that bug is fixed if it's multiplicative.

Oh, and actually no... I'm not VR15 yet (yes, you can laugh now) I got to VR14 the day after they announced VR16.. and then started new characters... so I never actually earned the full level after VR14 that bumped most VR14's to 849999 XP when logging in. I'm only half way through VR14

Well. It looks like I might as well start from scratch. Thank you for letting me know though. (Although I'm still going to check my current build against the PTS) You definitely brought to light a LOT of changes in behind the scenes things that could may be small but build up to the bigger problem I seem to be having. Thank you VERY much.

Ahh that explains (=

FYI Drinks are very powerful, especially if you use the blue drinks that have stamina and magicka regen. In PVE you could probably use the green magicka only regen drinks. Drinks are multiplied by all your other magicka regen passives including Altmer regen and light armor and (up until the bug in 2.1) Champion magicka regen passive.

SturgeHammer

This may be unrelated, but I feel like my regen ticks are... Slower for lack of a better term. I though it may have been the regen calculation changes but my regen rates didn't actually change by much if any.

Alucardo

Ezareth wrote: »

Vamprism must have a vampire ability slotted to receive the 10% magicka regen

There seems to also be a bug with this. I had slotted a vamp ability on both bars, but the supernatural recovery passive didn't show up. I rarely used vamp skills anyway so just cured myself.. no point having a weakness to something and getting nothing in return.

UrQuan

Yeah, when tanking yesterday I found I wasn't really having trouble with my stamina (I almost never ran out - only when I wasn't paying close enough attention and was blocking when I really didn't need to), but I was constantly running out of magicka. Granted part of that was because our DPS were having trouble with their own resources, so I was frequently spamming Puncturing Sweep in an attempt to help us burn down the waves of adds before the next wave came... Still, I've never had so much trouble with running out of magicka. I was burning through tri-pots as quickly as the cool-down allowed just to try to keep my magicka above 0 (I didn't once use one of them because I was running low on health or stamina - it was always because of the magicka).

MissBizz

Oh my goodness. I didn't realize that drinks are (well should) be multiplied by all those things! Something new to try out

Alucardo wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Vamprism must have a vampire ability slotted to receive the 10% magicka regen

There seems to also be a bug with this. I had slotted a vamp ability on both bars, but the supernatural recovery passive didn't show up. I rarely used vamp skills anyway so just cured myself.. no point having a weakness to something and getting nothing in return.

I read about that as well. I do want to cure myself ASAP.. but I won't until I get the max level achievement.. Guess I better hurry up and quest. I wonder is the better XP effects my vampire level too? Since I think it always worked off of XP? Maybe I'll get to 10 faster

Teridaxus

One reason for this could be nerfed set, another one is that many buffs work during combat only now like mirror brutality from eathern abilites for us dks.

Alucardo

Ezareth wrote: »

If you're not Vet16 you may be "Battle Levelled" to Vet 16 which is probably not a good thing if you're Vet 14 to Vet 15.
Vet battle levelling is something introduced with the patch to mainly to help Vet 1s and such remain effective instead of losing a huge amount of stats from level 49 to Vet1.

I was on my level 39 nb in the non-vet campaign. Was like my second day in Cyrodiil so I'm not sure of the mechanics, but thanks for clearing it up for me!

Alucardo

MissBizz wrote: »

I read about that as well. I do want to cure myself ASAP.. but I won't until I get the max level achievement.. Guess I better hurry up and quest. I wonder is the better XP effects my vampire level too? Since I think it always worked off of XP? Maybe I'll get to 10 faster

I'm glad I got cured - it's so nice not to look anaemic any more! I reached Master Vampire just by finishing the harborage quests then grinding on skeletons in Bangkorai. I don't think there's a particular trick, just whatever feeds you the most exp. Find a good grind spot and just go nuts

MissBizz

Joy_Division wrote: »

Normally I don't put a lock of stock into these sort of impressions, but I would not be surprised if some value/coefficient/effect got inadvertently changed.

That being said, I would welcome a return to saner resource regen rates.

Oh for sure @Joy_Division I even admit myself that it may be a change I just don't realize - heck, some changes I forgot about that other reminded me of are probably already part of the problem! My intention wasn't to say there's a bug really, but just to find out what exactly happened (intended or not) that I need to look at again.

Terrilu

I thought I was going crazy yesterday. My stamina nad magicka are both regenerating at a much lower rate and with mobs supposedly being more difficult to beat now, this is really inconvenient. Yesterday I ended up running in circles while having to wait for my magicka and stamina to regenerate... never happened before.

UrQuan

Part of me is putting on a tinfoil hat and thinking that this may all be a conspiracy to get people to start using drinks instead of always using food...

DDemon

I noticed the same right after the patch while doing pledges. I never ever ran out of magica _ever_ in simple 4 man dungeons before the boss died... I actually had to start using just heavy attacks at one point in order to get a little bit of magica back.

MissBizz

Comparing toons on PTS vs Live is going to be more difficult that I anticipated... I don't get my live gear on PTS, and I don't own the gear PTS has...

AND...

Did you know you don't get to know any wayshrins on the PTS templates? So making gear appears to be out of the question...

In good news.. if you have PTS and Live on different drives you can run them both at the same time. lol

ADarklore

Alucardo wrote: »

There seems to also be a bug with this. I had slotted a vamp ability on both bars, but the supernatural recovery passive didn't show up. I rarely used vamp skills anyway so just cured myself.. no point having a weakness to something and getting nothing in return.

When you say it 'doesn't show up', are you saying that it isn't working or that the icon doesn't appear? I noticed yesterday on one of my characters, the Mundus he had active "Atronach" icon just disappeared completely... whether or not the effect was still there I wasn't sure, but it did prompt me to change my Mundus, which I had been considering anyway.

So I wonder if this "didn't show up" was the effect wasn't working or the icon was gone? I'm thinking that because it is now a 'slotted' passive, that the icon may no longer appear just like other passives which have a "slotted" requirement.

It's amazing, in regards to Vampirism, that so many people simply look at the regen passive, but forget about the 'up to 33% damage mitigation' below 50% health, along with the 'run while in stealth' passive. I think Vampirism offers a lot of awesome benefits, not just the regen passive.

Sensesfail13

MissBizz wrote: »

This isn't a complaint thread, its a genuine question. I am not a min maxer, but I do like to think through my builds to ensure they are good. I don't just play eeni meeni miny mo to pick abilities.

I am a high elf Templar healer. Vet 14. Was wearing VR14 seducer and 5pc VR13 healer gear. I ensured ALL passives from every possible line I used were bought, along with racial ones. I did run with my old bar but I was absolutely out of magicka far more often that normal. I was running mostly skills from my Templar healing line and resto, with a splash of skills to help DPS. I like to use utility/buffs to help the group. I reread the patch notes and just cannot find why this is now happening.

This is in PvE dungeons. Are there any changes people have noticed that were not in, or were not apparent in the patch notes that is causing this? I know I will need to play around and test stuff out, and I will. But a helping hand in knowing what is causing this issue will likely speed up my process of knowing what to change to help myself.

Oh. And yes. I have my mundus stone.

I'm not including specific skills because I do switch up my bar in dungeons to better accommodate the group I am running with, the boss we are on etc. But templar abilities and resto abilities are the lines most of my skills are from.

I have also noticed a large change is my regeneration across the board and my sustainability that I had just 3 days ago, thank you for your post.

MissBizz

Alright....

Zos, you have me beat. You have always wanted me to use drinks.. and now you have won (at least for solo questing) Not only does it help a LOT more with my resources, BUT the damn health/magicka bar goes away BUFF OR NOT (because you know.. food they don't go away) You won.

*takes off tinfoil hat*

So, I think I know whats going on. I lost a bit of spellpower, which makes me heals weaker - meaning I need to heal more, and because of the funny cost reduction math.. those more often heals are also more expensive. It was a bunch of small things adding up I believe. I will now carry on and try out focusing on different stats in PvE to see what is most effective, and then carry what I learn into group content, and start the long dark search for my 1.7 cheese build.

Thank you very much for all the info and ideas in this thread, at least I know where the begin now.

Rune_Relic

Harvens attribute bars will let you know when stamina or magicka +- changes every tick.
Before this patch I was having issues with stamina reported on several occasions that I couldn't put my finger on.
Stamina was being burnt out and wouldn't come back.

I have noticed on occasion the stamina bar would say +1400 or so....but the bar wouldn't grow...it would simply stay the same size.
On other occasions it looked like the idle regen was cutting in and speeding up the combat regen (giving the impression) regen was slow when it correctly used combat regen stats instead.
The system also feels much more sluggish to rebuild stamina if you let it run out rather than keep 5-10% or so. Nothing concrete other than feels that way.

Sometimes I see ticks every second... and sometimes ticks every 2 seconds.

All of these such things are however transient and difficult to log in the heat of battle.

I have tried using nvidias shadow copy but sifting through them and trying to gauge what skills were used at what time is difficult to pin down with latency. It appears this bug (whatever it is) is now spreading to the magicka builds. I was always a pure stamina build so always noticed this.

It might be a latency effect, where client thinks it has regen but server disagrees. /shrugs
The overloaded servers might be making this bug much more apparent to other users.

Zlater

MissBizz wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Can confirm I lost 200 magicka regeneration in Cyrodiil. It returned when I tele'd back to bangkorai

I was not in Cyrodiil at the time. @Alucardo were you being battle levelled? I'm not big into PvP so I don't quite fully understand battle levelling - but what I (think) I understand is that a bunch of set bonuses do not apply if you're battle levelled, and they just boost your stats, not taking into account what stat you prefer? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable could come up with a better answer though.

It might actually be something with the battle spirit buff, out of cyro I don't struggle at all with my resources, but in cyro I have to slot WW and it still isn't enough

Merlin13KAGL

ADarklore wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

There seems to also be a bug with this. I had slotted a vamp ability on both bars, but the supernatural recovery passive didn't show up. I rarely used vamp skills anyway so just cured myself.. no point having a weakness to something and getting nothing in return.

When you say it 'doesn't show up', are you saying that it isn't working or that the icon doesn't appear? I noticed yesterday on one of my characters, the Mundus he had active "Atronach" icon just disappeared completely... whether or not the effect was still there I wasn't sure, but it did prompt me to change my Mundus, which I had been considering anyway.

So I wonder if this "didn't show up" was the effect wasn't working or the icon was gone? I'm thinking that because it is now a 'slotted' passive, that the icon may no longer appear just like other passives which have a "slotted" requirement.

It's amazing, in regards to Vampirism, that so many people simply look at the regen passive, but forget about the 'up to 33% damage mitigation' below 50% health, along with the 'run while in stealth' passive. I think Vampirism offers a lot of awesome benefits, not just the regen passive.

@ADarklore , @Alucardo , sorry I didn't catch this yesterday.

That buff does not show up under your active effects, as the change is directly visible via your stat change, same as with Concentration (LA), for instance.

Have a vamp ability on one bar, and not on the other.

Pull up your character sheet, weapon swap, and you should see the change directly, even though the buff is not added to the list.

You can also look at it on the same bar with vamp skill present, then remove the skill and look again. It's working on my characters presently.

@MissBizz , don't cave in just yet. There has to be something in the background causing this, and while the drink addition may be good, you'll have to shuffle far more points than you should have to in order to compensate for the raw stat loss.

You can check without gear if you have an available character slot open. Make a new guy in shriven gear, place CP's in the same places as your main, then do the same on the PTS.

I suspect there will be a difference, one further aggravated (reduced) courtesy of gear that affects regen.

Like many others, regen was rarely an issue before the patch, and that was before CP's got shuffled to adjust.

Something's still not right.

MissBizz

@Merlin13KAGL I did make a character identical on PTS and according to my character sheet, without gear, the stats are the same. Although, all I am doing is checking my character sheet. As for if something isn't actually working that I'm not sure. I was using drinks while in a delve and definitely felt the sting of almost running out of resources at times, but I contribute that to the longer fights. Mobs just seem a bit tougher.

I'll be trying to get in some time this weekend, including running some dungeons with people I know I never have issues with (some people are just really good.. And I wonder why they even bring a healer.. Lol) I'll record it and if I do have issues Ill look back and sift through my combat log to see if I notice anything funny.

Merlin13KAGL

Indeed. I'll look again at my PTS template vs my Live. There is basically only two gear differences (One heavy vs 1 light, same set, though) and one other minor difference.

I do not believe any of the pieces in question have regen bonuses, and I'm fairly certain I placed CP's the same.

I will look into it again, though.

MissBizz

@Merlin13KAGL Yeah, don't forget your mundus stone.. Hehe. The only difference on live vs PTS was that on PTS my vampirism was level 10 and on live it is level 7. I ensured I just didn't have any skill points in any vampire abilities on live or PTS, tho so that should make them even.

Merlin13KAGL

Ironically, I checked it with Vamp skill missing from the PTS version (so as not to skew) and without Mundus stone at all - again, due to the brilliant decision to lock all Wayshrines from max level template character.

I'll look into it again, as I'm losing one piece LA bonus for regen and that's it.

Part of the reason I made the character while I was waiting for the patch to download was to determine the best way to reshuffle CP's after the change.

Not saying I didn't miss something, but with the exact same setup as pre-patch (with the mundus initially missing, as I didn't catch that until later), I was having much greater regen issues than before.

It may be in the way they recalc reduction now, favoring it over regen. Will look when I have a chance and see what I can see, and will report back if anything notable.

eliisra

I knew there was something going on. Haven't changed any gear or builds yet, but finding myself really low on magicka, heavy attacking a lot to get resources back. I also had to stop using Cleanse and go back to Efficient Purge in PvP, because no way to afford that skill now.

Guess magicka management was a bit out of control in 1.6, but still want to know what's causing it and if intended.

Stamina control is harder to of course, but at least we know what's causing it. It's rather a l2p thing, where I still sometimes block or double dodge to be safe(out of old habit), than find myself unable to break cc like a moron.

willymchilybily

Docmandu wrote: »

Also keep in mind that the in-combat bug is still around, which means that some times even when you think you are idle, you will be in-combat and will have the in-comat regen value instead of the out-of-combat one, which is much much higher.

Doesn't explain the cases where you have regen issues during a fight though.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ironically, I checked it with Vamp skill missing from the PTS version (so as not to skew) and without Mundus stone at all - again, due to the brilliant decision to lock all Wayshrines from max level template character.

I'll look into it again, as I'm losing one piece LA bonus for regen and that's it.

Part of the reason I made the character while I was waiting for the patch to download was to determine the best way to reshuffle CP's after the change.

Not saying I didn't miss something, but with the exact same setup as pre-patch (with the mundus initially missing, as I didn't catch that until later), I was having much greater regen issues than before.

It may be in the way they recalc reduction now, favoring it over regen. Will look when I have a chance and see what I can see, and will report back if anything notable.

@Merlin13KAGL with all the buffs to regen for my high elf and khajit Nb toons and the increase (of ~150% at Vr14 to regen) enchants i was hoping they were trying to level the playing field of regen or reduced cost, not adjust for changes to the core regen calculation mechanic. Dissapointing. Be interested to know what you make of reduced cost. Also if you have a link to the changes of how regen is calculated i'd be interested to have a read

MissBizz

@willymchilybily High Elf didn't get the regen buff. I was sad too. It was in the first PTS patch but people complained that High Elves didn't need it and the reverted the change to our previous regen passive %'s. (Happened to others as well, I think Wood Elf had their passive buffs reverted as well?)

I'm in the same boat as you though. Even though they didn't buff me, they didn't nerf me either. Really, the only thing I read directly in the patch notes was about the spell power nerf. Otherwise, all other things seem to be a "buff" (even if only a small one), such as changes to skills and enchants. It's just a bit frustrating that from reading notes it appears I should be the same or better, but they also did some behind the scenes math changes that secretly "nerfed" me. (at least I don't recall seeing these math changes in the notes, it's something I imagine they wouldn't add anyways)

Baronh2o

Make sure you reapply your mundus stones. Since there were so many mundus stone changes they removed them from players. You need to reapply.

Garion

There has definitely been a steath nerf. The only thing that changed for me (after I got my mundus stone back) was the loss of emperor passive which does not account for the 200 or so regen I have lost!

Tonturri

I've found problems with my character sheet updating. On my sorcerer, the 10%magicka regen buff pet doesn't show up on my sheet for a while. You could try relogging/zoning while changing things around. The pet would've given me ~200 regen, but it didn't show up on the sheet until I was halfway through a dungeon.

Even then, it occasionally decided to take a couple min vacation.

Merlin13KAGL

@ZOS_GinaBruno , how about putting the pre-patch version back on PTS along with a character copy from live? This would identify the problem in a hurry, I suspect?

There are too many people feeling the hit from this for something not to be up with it, and I don't think it's just about longer fights.