Where did my magicka go?

MissBizz

This isn't a complaint thread, its a genuine question. I am not a min maxer, but I do like to think through my builds to ensure they are good. I don't just play eeni meeni miny mo to pick abilities.

I am a high elf Templar healer. Vet 14. Was wearing VR14 seducer and 5pc VR13 healer gear. I ensured ALL passives from every possible line I used were bought, along with racial ones. I did run with my old bar but I was absolutely out of magicka far more often that normal. I was running mostly skills from my Templar healing line and resto, with a splash of skills to help DPS. I like to use utility/buffs to help the group. I reread the patch notes and just cannot find why this is now happening.

This is in PvE dungeons. Are there any changes people have noticed that were not in, or were not apparent in the patch notes that is causing this? I know I will need to play around and test stuff out, and I will. But a helping hand in knowing what is causing this issue will likely speed up my process of knowing what to change to help myself.

Oh. And yes. I have my mundus stone.

I'm not including specific skills because I do switch up my bar in dungeons to better accommodate the group I am running with, the boss we are on etc. But templar abilities and resto abilities are the lines most of my skills are from.

Steel_Brightblade

I read that enchants now give less stats and that most set perks have also been reduced in an effort to force people to buy ic. Could be those are what is hurting you?

Alucardo

I don't seem to be running out of magicka too often, but my regen is pretty damn slow compared to what it was. I really need to start taking screenshots of my character sheet/gear just before an update to see exactly what has changed..

Zlater

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

I read that enchants now give less stats and that most set perks have also been reduced in an effort to force people to buy ic. Could be those are what is hurting you?

They actually said that they are weaker at lower levels but stronger at higher levels. So a vr14 should have a tiny bit more magicka but now a vr5 will have a tiny bit less.

I'm sorry I cant answer your question, I so know that the Mage mundus stone was reduced a bit, so if you had a bunch of divines traits, then you might be missing a bit there. Set bonus magicka also dropped a bit too I think. hmm...

willymchilybily

don't suppose you ported your character onto a console? IC isn't out for console yet so you could do a before and after view. Or perhaps you know someone else who has ported their characters to a console that might be able to do a comparison, otherwise good luck resolving the mystery, keep us posted.

NightSky

Mundus Stone recently weaker.
The Seals on your armor got nerf( Which drops the player regen and mana pool)

Leandor

I feel you. Cheesy as it may have been, I was (well, am) a Bosmer werewolf nightblade. I went from ~1700 unbuffed stamina reg to 1030.

Dammit, that will be hard to get used to.

Flaminir

I found the same thing yesterday...

EXACTLY the same...

Noticed it first on my sorc who was going OOM way faster than normal... then again when I went to heal normal DSA on my Templar.... I actually had to heavy attack all the timeto regain mana.

Checked everything from set bonuses and mundus....

unless there is some skill that suddenly got a cost increase, or maybe something screwy happening with CP (Probably the most likely)

Zsymon

How exactly did recovery get nerfed so hard? It seems to be like a 40% nerf. People with really high recovery now have only about a little more than half of what they had before.

Armor glyphs don't give recovery, only max stats, so that can't be the cause.

Leandor

Pasives that used to be permanently active have a activity condition now (Vampire, Werewolf). Others got severly changed (Nightblade). That may have a large influence on things, at least for some builds.

Add to that the fact that the 2-4 piece bonuses got reduced (even though they said only damage ones, at least health also got a big hit) which may change the base value for those percentage modifiers, and you have a big hit on the final number.

Does not explain the sitch completely, but at least partially. Anyways, it is what many people have asked for: to somehow put an end to infinite resources. I just wish they would have made the changes clearer in the patch notes - provided there were deliberate changes and this is not a bug issue...

MissBizz

Steel_Brightblade wrote: »

I read that enchants now give less stats and that most set perks have also been reduced in an effort to force people to buy ic. Could be those are what is hurting you?

According to the patch notes at VR14 enchants either stayed the same or were supposed to rise. I also kept seeing people mention the same thing, but I don't see any patch notes, or pics, or numbers or anything to see for real @Steel_Brightblade

Alucardo wrote: »

I don't seem to be running out of magicka too often, but my regen is pretty damn slow compared to what it was. I really need to start taking screenshots of my character sheet/gear just before an update to see exactly what has changed..

That's a good idea and something I really should have done. It may be that my regen is just really low. If my regen is way lower it makes sense I'd be OOM more.

NightSky wrote: »

Mundus Stone recently weaker.
The Seals on your armor got nerf( Which drops the player regen and mana pool)

I had shadow on last night, it should have received a buff. I do used infused.

willymchilybily wrote: »

don't suppose you ported your character onto a console? IC isn't out for console yet so you could do a before and after view. Or perhaps you know someone else who has ported their characters to a console that might be able to do a comparison, otherwise good luck resolving the mystery, keep us posted.

I did actually... but my PS4 version of this character is only VR11... ALTHOUGH.. I do stream.. I could look in my old videos.. I sure would have opened my character sheet at some point...

Flaminir wrote: »

I found the same thing yesterday...

EXACTLY the same...

Noticed it first on my sorc who was going OOM way faster than normal... then again when I went to heal normal DSA on my Templar.... I actually had to heavy attack all the timeto regain mana.

Checked everything from set bonuses and mundus....

unless there is some skill that suddenly got a cost increase, or maybe something screwy happening with CP (Probably the most likely)

@Flaminir I also considered cost increases for skills. I'll take a look around the forums but I swear someone had screenshot of some magicka abilities before/after and they now cost more.. ooh, I guess I use console for that. All these abilities would have been open by VR11. (hopefully console even shows cost, I don't remember)

I am a vampire @Leandor but I was not "used" to the passive yet. The vampirism is pretty new to me (I just want the achievement) and the change I feel definitely can be compared to my pre-vampirism. As well, I do recall reading the PTS patch notes and seeing that damage/spellpower (I think) were reduced on crafted sets.. but cannot find that in the live patch notes. Are they missing? Am I just missing them?

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll definitely check my stream tonight to compare character sheets, as well log into console and see if I can see the old costs for abilities - I'll come back with any findings!

Leandor

@MissBizz it is in this part of the notes, scroll down to the "Item Sets" section, it is the second bullet point and it is general for all item sets, not only crafted ones.

In regards to the regeneration bonuses, I am not sure whether the numbers have been reduced as well or whether there is some kind of bug. Anyways, I did not feel as resource starved during my stints on the PTS, so it may very well be worth to check whether some kind of strange bug was introduced with the latest build.

MissBizz

Leandor wrote: »

@MissBizz it is in this part of the notes, scroll down to the "Item Sets" section, it is the second bullet point and it is general for all item sets, not only crafted ones.

In regards to the regeneration bonuses, I am not sure whether the numbers have been reduced as well or whether there is some kind of bug. Anyways, I did not feel as resource starved during my stints on the PTS, so it may very well be worth to check whether some kind of strange bug was introduced with the latest build.

You are correct @Leandor thanks for letting me know where it was. Unfortunately though, I don't see Seducer OR Healer set in those changes. I will need to take a look, but if either set had spell power, I don't think it would have changed my magicka so much, would it? (look at the 2pc,4pc reduction)

Dracane

Because they decreased all regeneration. Stamina players claim only they suffer from it, even though Magicka suffers just as much.

People are complaining since 1.6, that managing ressources is too easy (for me it has never been THAT easy, that I could say I have infinite ressources) and now where managing ressources became harder, people are still complaining.

Merlin13KAGL

Leandor wrote: »

@MissBizz it is in this part of the notes, scroll down to the "Item Sets" section, it is the second bullet point and it is general for all item sets, not only crafted ones.

In regards to the regeneration bonuses, I am not sure whether the numbers have been reduced as well or whether there is some kind of bug. Anyways, I did not feel as resource starved during my stints on the PTS, so it may very well be worth to check whether some kind of strange bug was introduced with the latest build.

You can see this directly by making an 'equivalent' template character on the still active PTS.

Same gear (in regard to the weight and appropriate bonuses), same CP's in the same stars, and the Regen on the PTS version will be considerably higher than the one on live.

Something's definitley NKR (Not Quite Right) regarding regen.

Leandor

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

@MissBizz it is in this part of the notes, scroll down to the "Item Sets" section, it is the second bullet point and it is general for all item sets, not only crafted ones.

In regards to the regeneration bonuses, I am not sure whether the numbers have been reduced as well or whether there is some kind of bug. Anyways, I did not feel as resource starved during my stints on the PTS, so it may very well be worth to check whether some kind of strange bug was introduced with the latest build.

You can see this directly by making an 'equivalent' template character on the still active PTS.

Same gear (in regard to the weight and appropriate bonuses), same CP's in the same stars, and the Regen on the PTS version will be considerably higher than the one on live.

Something's definitley NKR (Not Quite Right) regarding regen.

Thanks for the confirmation, mate. Will do the same and report as well.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , as opposed to my (completely unjustified, I admit) rant in regards to the campaign reset (can we agree to just forget that one?), maybe you could also start getting people to check this issue?

Please clarify whether it is an intended, albeit undocumented change or some kind of bug worth mentioning in the "known issues" thread?

MissBizz

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

@MissBizz it is in this part of the notes, scroll down to the "Item Sets" section, it is the second bullet point and it is general for all item sets, not only crafted ones.

In regards to the regeneration bonuses, I am not sure whether the numbers have been reduced as well or whether there is some kind of bug. Anyways, I did not feel as resource starved during my stints on the PTS, so it may very well be worth to check whether some kind of strange bug was introduced with the latest build.

You can see this directly by making an 'equivalent' template character on the still active PTS.

Same gear (in regard to the weight and appropriate bonuses), same CP's in the same stars, and the Regen on the PTS version will be considerably higher than the one on live.

Something's definitley NKR (Not Quite Right) regarding regen.

Thanks @Merlin13KAGL I won't be able to use my healer and craft up that Seducer gear without the mats, BUT, I could craft some straight up white sets on Live that I could easily craft on PTS and do a direct comparison. If it is considerably different, you'll be seeing another post (with pictures!) from me.

rotaugen454

I've noticed that my VR15 sorc runs out of Magicka MUCH faster. I get low fighting a single troll, which used to be easy. Also takes longer to put them down, and I take several times the damage I used to because I could often finish them with them only getting 1 or 2 hits in.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hmm, not quite sure what's going on here, but we'll take a look and report back with our findings.

Ezareth

MissBizz wrote: »

This isn't a complaint thread, its a genuine question. I am not a min maxer, but I do like to think through my builds to ensure they are good. I don't just play eeni meeni miny mo to pick abilities.

I am a high elf Templar healer. Vet 14. Was wearing VR14 seducer and 5pc VR13 healer gear. I ensured ALL passives from every possible line I used were bought, along with racial ones. I did run with my old bar but I was absolutely out of magicka far more often that normal. I was running mostly skills from my Templar healing line and resto, with a splash of skills to help DPS. I like to use utility/buffs to help the group. I reread the patch notes and just cannot find why this is now happening.

This is in PvE dungeons. Are there any changes people have noticed that were not in, or were not apparent in the patch notes that is causing this? I know I will need to play around and test stuff out, and I will. But a helping hand in knowing what is causing this issue will likely speed up my process of knowing what to change to help myself.

Oh. And yes. I have my mundus stone.

I'm not including specific skills because I do switch up my bar in dungeons to better accommodate the group I am running with, the boss we are on etc. But templar abilities and resto abilities are the lines most of my skills are from.

@MissBizz

Many Possibilities that would have an impact on your sustain

Many of the formulas changed. Racials, Emperor Passives, and Werewolf/Vampire bonus used to be multiplicative and are now additive

Cost reduction was reduced further by another ~1.5% in 1.6 the totality of your cost reduction whether additive or subtractive was multiplied by ~.877% before it was calculated. In 2.1 it is multiplied by ~.8625 (this affects Restoring Spirit, Light armor passive, and Seducer but not champion points)

Additionally the costs of all abilities increased by ~1.75% as your vet levels increase. You had to have at least been V15.

Drink is no longer multiplicative with Magicka regen CP Passive (This is a known bug).

Vamprism must have a vampire ability slotted to receive the 10% magicka regen

Emperor passives are gone (if you had these)

You lost any Cyrodiil buffs you had which would have lowered your spell power and crit and thus required spamming heals more

MissBizz

Thanks Gina. @Leandor Mind taking screencaps of identical live vs PTS builds and posting them here, and I'll do the same? I imagine our builds will very and maybe we'll be able to spot

Ezareth wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

This isn't a complaint thread, its a genuine question. I am not a min maxer, but I do like to think through my builds to ensure they are good. I don't just play eeni meeni miny mo to pick abilities.

I am a high elf Templar healer. Vet 14. Was wearing VR14 seducer and 5pc VR13 healer gear. I ensured ALL passives from every possible line I used were bought, along with racial ones. I did run with my old bar but I was absolutely out of magicka far more often that normal. I was running mostly skills from my Templar healing line and resto, with a splash of skills to help DPS. I like to use utility/buffs to help the group. I reread the patch notes and just cannot find why this is now happening.

This is in PvE dungeons. Are there any changes people have noticed that were not in, or were not apparent in the patch notes that is causing this? I know I will need to play around and test stuff out, and I will. But a helping hand in knowing what is causing this issue will likely speed up my process of knowing what to change to help myself.

Oh. And yes. I have my mundus stone.

I'm not including specific skills because I do switch up my bar in dungeons to better accommodate the group I am running with, the boss we are on etc. But templar abilities and resto abilities are the lines most of my skills are from.

@MissBizz

Many Possibilities that would have an impact on your sustain

Many of the formulas changed. Racials, Emperor Passives, and Werewolf/Vampire bonus used to be multiplicative and are now additive

Cost reduction was reduced further by another ~1.5% in 1.6 the totality of your cost reduction whether additive or subtractive was multiplied by ~.877% before it was calculated. In 2.1 it is multiplied by ~.8625 (this affects Restoring Spirit, Light armor passive, and Seducer but not champion points)

Additionally the costs of all abilities increased by ~1.75% as your vet levels increase. You had to have at least been V15.

Drink is no longer multiplicative with Magicka regen CP Passive (This is a known bug).

Vamprism must have a vampire ability slotted to receive the 10% magicka regen

Emperor passives are gone (if you had these)

You lost any Cyrodiil buffs you had which would have lowered your spell power and crit and thus required spamming heals more

@Ezareth Alright, so essentially what you're telling me... is even if my racial passives didn't "change" the outcome still did because the math is done different? Oh my.. I'm not going to be sure how to overcome that. lol

I did forget about the Cyrodiil buffs being gone, although I was in a campaign that didn't always have them before - but that definitely still could be part of it.

As well the cost reduction math changes most definitely sound like they would be part of my problem. As you noted I used quite a few things that offer that benefit.

Emperor passives. Hah. HAH. HAH. Nope. Once I get EVERY other achievement in game, THEN I'll try for that one.. it's a ways off

I don't use drinks, but that sounds like an avenue to try when that bug is fixed if it's multiplicative.

Oh, and actually no... I'm not VR15 yet (yes, you can laugh now) I got to VR14 the day after they announced VR16.. and then started new characters... so I never actually earned the full level after VR14 that bumped most VR14's to 849999 XP when logging in. I'm only half way through VR14

Well. It looks like I might as well start from scratch. Thank you for letting me know though. (Although I'm still going to check my current build against the PTS) You definitely brought to light a LOT of changes in behind the scenes things that could may be small but build up to the bigger problem I seem to be having. Thank you VERY much.

Alucardo

Can confirm I lost 200 magicka regeneration in Cyrodiil. It returned when I tele'd back to bangkorai

MissBizz

Alucardo wrote: »

Can confirm I lost 200 magicka regeneration in Cyrodiil. It returned when I tele'd back to bangkorai

I was not in Cyrodiil at the time. @Alucardo were you being battle levelled? I'm not big into PvP so I don't quite fully understand battle levelling - but what I (think) I understand is that a bunch of set bonuses do not apply if you're battle levelled, and they just boost your stats, not taking into account what stat you prefer? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable could come up with a better answer though.

Preyfar

I'm finding my stamina regeneration doesn't feel like it's half as good as it was before, and I'm running with the WW Ult slotted. At 2K stam, I'm constantly out of stamina and I'm finding if I'm not using a drinks I'm really at a loss. My DPS has gone down quite a bit because of it, so I can only imagine how Magicka builds are faring.

Docmandu

Also keep in mind that the in-combat bug is still around, which means that some times even when you think you are idle, you will be in-combat and will have the in-comat regen value instead of the out-of-combat one, which is much much higher.

Doesn't explain the cases where you have regen issues during a fight though.

MissBizz

Preyfar wrote: »

I'm finding my stamina regeneration doesn't feel like it's half as good as it was before, and I'm running with the WW Ult slotted. At 2K stam, I'm constantly out of stamina and I'm finding if I'm not using a drinks I'm really at a loss. My DPS has gone down quite a bit because of it, so I can only imagine how Magicka builds are faring.

@Preyfar Did you check and make sure the WW passive is working? As in take it off - look at stats - then put it on and check?

Haha yeah, actually we were joking last night that regen must have been nerfed just to get people to actually use drinks

olsborg

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hmm, not quite sure what's going on here, but we'll take a look and report back with our findings.

I wouldnt nessesarily call it a bad change Gina, resources should play a role in wether someone wins a fight or not, in 1.6 resources was pretty much not an issue at all, it was infinite. Now, you have to think about what youre using and how often etc, spamming high cost abilities will have you paying the price.

Alucardo

MissBizz wrote: »

I was not in Cyrodiil at the time. @Alucardo were you being battle levelled? I'm not big into PvP so I don't quite fully understand battle levelling - but what I (think) I understand is that a bunch of set bonuses do not apply if you're battle levelled, and they just boost your stats, not taking into account what stat you prefer? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable could come up with a better answer though.

The PVP passive states it increases my base health, reduces healing received and a few other things, but it doesn't mention magicka regeneration or anything, so I'd assume that's supposed to remain untouched, though I could be wrong. But my regen does appear to be as normal when I'm in PvE land.

Merlin13KAGL

@Alucardo , as @MissBizz points out, battle leveling can affect things, and not always in the positive direction, depending on your build.

I turned BL off when I hit about L48, as it was making my numbers go down, not up.

Granted, this is less likely since it scaled to VR14, but I'm not discounting it.

Regarding the norm, BL is and has been off for some time, and Cyro buffs were not active (Emp Alliance, etc.)

MissBizz

Alucardo wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

I was not in Cyrodiil at the time. @Alucardo were you being battle levelled? I'm not big into PvP so I don't quite fully understand battle levelling - but what I (think) I understand is that a bunch of set bonuses do not apply if you're battle levelled, and they just boost your stats, not taking into account what stat you prefer? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable could come up with a better answer though.

The PVP passive states it increases my base health, reduces healing received and a few other things, but it doesn't mention magicka regeneration or anything, so I'd assume that's supposed to remain untouched, though I could be wrong. But my regen does appear to be as normal when I'm in PvE land.

@Alucardo the thing I'm referring to about the battle spirit buff isn't new though. As far as I know, it has always been that way. So if you have any passives on your gear that buff regen - this will not apply in Cyrodiil (as I understand it). Try taking gear off and checking stats.. then enter Cyrodiil with no gear on and see. If it still drops, then that isn't the problem Just trying to help you brainstorm

Joy_Division

Normally I don't put a lock of stock into these sort of impressions, but I would not be surprised if some value/coefficient/effect got inadvertently changed.

That being said, I would welcome a return to saner resource regen rates.