Yeah this 50% Damage reduction is not cutting it.

Anazasi

Zerging is the inherent nature of non - war zone type matches where you have 8v8. Sorry but apparently they have not educated you on what WORLD PVP and AvAvA combat really is. If you don't want to be in a zerg, part of an alliance that zergs, or simply cant understand what a zerg really is, than you can not have an "I" win button. Perhaps you should play a FPS type came like halo or some call of duty. Please stop complaining about it and simply accept it. Honestly there is absolutely NOTHING you can do but cry on the forums and frankly I think everyone is tired of mopping up the tears that flow regularly here at ZOS Land.

Ezareth

Anazasi wrote: »

Zerging is the inherent nature of non - war zone type matches where you have 8v8. Sorry but apparently they have not educated you on what WORLD PVP and AvAvA combat really is. If you don't want to be in a zerg, part of an alliance that zergs, or simply cant understand what a zerg really is, than you can not have an "I" win button. Perhaps you should play a FPS type came like halo or some call of duty. Please stop complaining about it and simply accept it. Honestly there is absolutely NOTHING you can do but cry on the forums and frankly I think everyone is tired of mopping up the tears that flow regularly here at ZOS Land.

All I can say is in my 130-140 days playing in Cyrodiil, I've found that it is rare to find a player who possess skill that regularly runs with a Zerg. They exist but they are the exception not the rule.

On the flip side, the people I tend to respect and fear facing the most are the guys who live out in the "wild" alone and outnumbered or in small elite groups facing a far larger number of players.

If ZoS intended for the game to be Zerg v Zerg they wouldn't have made a class that was designed to operate out of stealth.

There is a place for Zerging and nothing wrong with people who like that style of play....but there is also nothing wrong with other players who desire to actually be challenged in PvP yet not so overwhelmed that they never stood a chance. There should be places and content designed to accommodate both.

coryrenick_ESO

There's zero skill in killing someone in three hits. That's just min-maxing malarkey. If you're going to cry that people can survive your initial onslaught and actually react to your attack, you really have no business complaining about the lack of skill or challenge involved.
Heck, it might even be fun for the Vet players who don't have 800 CP and a full Nirn set, and give them the chance to actually learn how to fight in PvP, too.

Ezareth

coryrenick_ESO wrote: »

There's zero skill in killing someone in three hits. That's just min-maxing malarkey. If you're going to cry that people can survive your initial onslaught and actually react to your attack, you really have no business complaining about the lack of skill or challenge involved.
Heck, it might even be fun for the Vet players who don't have 800 CP and a full Nirn set, and give them the chance to actually learn how to fight in PvP, too.

If your response was directed at me, I don't play a stealth gank playstyle although I agree with your assessment of the skill involved with it. When I kill people they see me when I see them (often before I see them) and it usually takes between 40-50 bashes to kill them not 3 hits ( ;

coryrenick_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

coryrenick_ESO wrote: »

There's zero skill in killing someone in three hits. That's just min-maxing malarkey. If you're going to cry that people can survive your initial onslaught and actually react to your attack, you really have no business complaining about the lack of skill or challenge involved.
Heck, it might even be fun for the Vet players who don't have 800 CP and a full Nirn set, and give them the chance to actually learn how to fight in PvP, too.

If your response was directed at me, I don't play a stealth gank playstyle although I agree with your assessment of the skill involved with it. When I kill people they see me when I see them (often before I see them) and it usually takes between 40-50 bashes to kill them not 3 hits ( ;

No, not directed at you.
Just a general comment from my experiences in PvP, and recently trying to learn the game after having been mostly PvE since launch. There's no fun, skill, or even ability to learn involved when a good percentage of the people you meet in Vet ranks will have you near dead with their first attack whether you saw them coming or not. A Crystal Fragments or a Wrecking Blow, or worse, Prox Det, that does 12-16K damage when the average player has 24K Health isn't skill. Add in the arguable "skills" like animation cancelling, and not even the damage recap will be a good indicator of what just happened to you or what you could have done to avoid it.

Ezareth

coryrenick_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

coryrenick_ESO wrote: »

There's zero skill in killing someone in three hits. That's just min-maxing malarkey. If you're going to cry that people can survive your initial onslaught and actually react to your attack, you really have no business complaining about the lack of skill or challenge involved.
Heck, it might even be fun for the Vet players who don't have 800 CP and a full Nirn set, and give them the chance to actually learn how to fight in PvP, too.

If your response was directed at me, I don't play a stealth gank playstyle although I agree with your assessment of the skill involved with it. When I kill people they see me when I see them (often before I see them) and it usually takes between 40-50 bashes to kill them not 3 hits ( ;

No, not directed at you.
Just a general comment from my experiences in PvP, and recently trying to learn the game after having been mostly PvE since launch. There's no fun, skill, or even ability to learn involved when a good percentage of the people you meet in Vet ranks will have you near dead with their first attack whether you saw them coming or not. A Crystal Fragments or a Wrecking Blow, or worse, Prox Det, that does 12-16K damage when the average player has 24K Health isn't skill. Add in the arguable "skills" like animation cancelling, and not even the damage recap will be a good indicator of what just happened to you or what you could have done to avoid it.

The counter to these things are extremely frustrating and difficult to learn on your own. My advice is to seek a PvP guild to help tutor you on all the nuances of PvP. All of us were not good PvP players are one point or another and we all had to go through growing pains. There are counters to everything and balance to a point if you are willing to learn.

PainfulFAFA

The ZOS band aid fix...

People were dying too fast before so they decide to do it the lazy way and just reduce all damage by 50%...

coryrenick_ESO

Ezareth wrote: »

The counter to these things are extremely frustrating and difficult to learn on your own. My advice is to seek a PvP guild to help tutor you on all the nuances of PvP. All of us were not good PvP players are one point or another and we all had to go through growing pains. There are counters to everything and balance to a point if you are willing to learn.

Too frustrating and too difficult, which is why a damage nerf was the best option. Like I said, less min-maxing malarkey for an already complicated system, and it might give players a change to learn and improve when they don't eat dirt in seconds.
I joined DIG, but they haven't been much help in clearing it up, either.

bosmern_ESO

Its called heavy attacks, if you time them right and know when to use them you will never run out of resources.

Ezareth

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Its called heavy attacks, if you time them right and know when to use them you will never run out of resources.

Just spam wrecking blow and nothing else and you'll never run out of resources.

Start doing things a little more skillful than mashing single abilities and it's a different story.

AshTal

I thought I would like them being as a sorc healer and Argonian (so I get that kick ass 6% more health when drinking a potion) but I find I seem to die to gankers just as quickly. Probably because I don't have time to drink that potion and get the amazing 6% health which would make me unbeatable but in a 2 V 2 fight in imperial city it must have lasted 5 mins and only ended when a mob spawned next to the other guys and killed them for us.

Something hand to be done with the 2 shot kills but now stand up battles take ages.

On a side note thanks to the insane lag I still get to be killed without knowing what hit me or fight back.

JDar

Anazasi wrote: »

Zerging is the inherent nature of non - war zone type matches where you have 8v8. Sorry but apparently they have not educated you on what WORLD PVP and AvAvA combat really is. If you don't want to be in a zerg, part of an alliance that zergs, or simply cant understand what a zerg really is, than you can not have an "I" win button. Perhaps you should play a FPS type came like halo or some call of duty. Please stop complaining about it and simply accept it. Honestly there is absolutely NOTHING you can do but cry on the forums and frankly I think everyone is tired of mopping up the tears that flow regularly here at ZOS Land.

Agree completely. This is the wrong game for people who are high individual skill and want to win only on those merits with no other dynamics involved.

coryrenick_ESO

JDar wrote: »

Agree completely. This is the wrong game for people who are high individual skill and want to win only on those merits with no other dynamics involved.

And I just have to reiterate that it's not high individual skill to be able to wreck someone in four hits while they can't even scratch your shield if they even can react at all. No danger = no skill. Noobs didn't even have the survivability of trash mobs. The common thread here doesn't seem to be that the PvP elite can't kill the scrubs anymore, but that it takes too long. I mean, what even. I'm truly sorry you won't be able to cram in as many 1vX's for a give time period, but on the other hand some other people might actually have a chance to play and learn the game.

Publius_Scipio

JDar wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Zerging is the inherent nature of non - war zone type matches where you have 8v8. Sorry but apparently they have not educated you on what WORLD PVP and AvAvA combat really is. If you don't want to be in a zerg, part of an alliance that zergs, or simply cant understand what a zerg really is, than you can not have an "I" win button. Perhaps you should play a FPS type came like halo or some call of duty. Please stop complaining about it and simply accept it. Honestly there is absolutely NOTHING you can do but cry on the forums and frankly I think everyone is tired of mopping up the tears that flow regularly here at ZOS Land.

Agree completely. This is the wrong game for people who are high individual skill and want to win only on those merits with no other dynamics involved.

Yup. Been saying for a long time that the game was designed as an all out large scale brawl-for-all. Seems players are looking for this surgical precision that just isn't baked into the game's core.

JDar

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Zerging is the inherent nature of non - war zone type matches where you have 8v8. Sorry but apparently they have not educated you on what WORLD PVP and AvAvA combat really is. If you don't want to be in a zerg, part of an alliance that zergs, or simply cant understand what a zerg really is, than you can not have an "I" win button. Perhaps you should play a FPS type came like halo or some call of duty. Please stop complaining about it and simply accept it. Honestly there is absolutely NOTHING you can do but cry on the forums and frankly I think everyone is tired of mopping up the tears that flow regularly here at ZOS Land.

Agree completely. This is the wrong game for people who are high individual skill and want to win only on those merits with no other dynamics involved.

Yup. Been saying for a long time that the game was designed as an all out large scale brawl-for-all. Seems players are looking for this surgical precision that just isn't baked into the game's core.

That and they all want to *** about how elite they are. I don't know what I hate more, ignorant sheep in a group or self-righteous arrogant holier-than-thou players.

Starshadw

I have zero doubts that making it far more difficult to one-shot players was on purpose, precisely because of the new Tel Var stones mechanic where players lose 80% of their TV stones if they die to another player. They wanted to make it more difficult to kill players to try and discourage ganking (it doesn't actually do this, all it really does is encourage gankers to wait until someone or a small group has attacked a boss, then nail them with attacks and wait for the boss to finish them off and do all the heavy lifting so they can collect the stones and the treasure from the boss).

*shrug*

IxSTALKERxI

The problem is active defences such as blocking, dodge rolling and shields have been nerfed. I agree people shouldn't be killed instantly, but there should be more to combat than dps opponent until they die. More players? Opponent dies faster, there really isn't much you can do when outnumbered now.

Manoekin

Ezareth wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

A lot of QQ in this thread. As far as damage goes I've seen people doing lots of damage, so really your build just sucks. I've also seen magicka DK's killing more than they numbered. A group of 2 specifically yesterday were able to handle like 10 players if they did things right. Unfortunately people can't just mash keys and watch other people die anymore.

Magicka DK right now is sitting very pretty when played correctly. Ton of AOE abilities and several resource regeneration options that aren't gimped by the block nerf. I'm glad to see they're being brought more in line after the embarrassment they were at the end of 1.6

For those of you running out of stamina the calculations were changed and many things were nerfed and removed.

NBs lost 15% stam regen from Refreshing Shadows
WWs lost 15% stam regen unless they slot the ultimate (lol)
Vamps lost 10% stam/mag regen unless they slot a vamp ability.
Racial passives, vamp/WW, and emp used to be multiplicative with your other stam bonuses, now they are additive like the rest.
Drink isn't stacking with Champion passives (I don't think this was fixed yet)
Everyone lost Emp passives
At Vet 16 your abilities are ~1.75% more expensive but your base regen doesn't increase.

I went from 3096 Stam Regen with Drink in 1.6 to 2330 in 2.1 and this was *after* shifting 40 additional CPs into the mooncalf passive than I had in 1.6

Yep. I have less magicka regen with an even more regen focused build, and I can't find out what has changed because the values are still the same that I can remember them being. It could be the drink thing if that was working before the patch.

Ishammael

Manoekin wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

A lot of QQ in this thread. As far as damage goes I've seen people doing lots of damage, so really your build just sucks. I've also seen magicka DK's killing more than they numbered. A group of 2 specifically yesterday were able to handle like 10 players if they did things right. Unfortunately people can't just mash keys and watch other people die anymore.

Magicka DK right now is sitting very pretty when played correctly. Ton of AOE abilities and several resource regeneration options that aren't gimped by the block nerf. I'm glad to see they're being brought more in line after the embarrassment they were at the end of 1.6

For those of you running out of stamina the calculations were changed and many things were nerfed and removed.

NBs lost 15% stam regen from Refreshing Shadows
WWs lost 15% stam regen unless they slot the ultimate (lol)
Vamps lost 10% stam/mag regen unless they slot a vamp ability.
Racial passives, vamp/WW, and emp used to be multiplicative with your other stam bonuses, now they are additive like the rest.
Drink isn't stacking with Champion passives (I don't think this was fixed yet)
Everyone lost Emp passives
At Vet 16 your abilities are ~1.75% more expensive but your base regen doesn't increase.

I went from 3096 Stam Regen with Drink in 1.6 to 2330 in 2.1 and this was *after* shifting 40 additional CPs into the mooncalf passive than I had in 1.6

Yep. I have less magicka regen with an even more regen focused build, and I can't find out what has changed because the values are still the same that I can remember them being. It could be the drink thing if that was working before the patch.

I'm here too. Trying to figure out how to keep my DK sustain. The DK, more than any other class requires proper execution and rotation of abilities to keep stam and health up.

Sypher

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

I agree its not a solo game.. but when fights are so heavily determined by numbers its become silly. Don't get me wrong, good groups can still have an impact.. but when the game becomes a math equation, that's not a good thing. Right now it's - ok you have this much dmg, we have this much healing. At least in 1.6, you could run away from fights that were a no win situation. Now you are trapped in a sewer.

I see what you are saying. But it's always been a math equation. Ask guys like Deltia, Sypher, and Ezareth. That on one screen they are playing/testing the game and on another screen they have an Excel spreadsheet open.

I wish I was that committed.

guess and check, guess and check, guess and check.

Lucky28

Sypher wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

I agree its not a solo game.. but when fights are so heavily determined by numbers its become silly. Don't get me wrong, good groups can still have an impact.. but when the game becomes a math equation, that's not a good thing. Right now it's - ok you have this much dmg, we have this much healing. At least in 1.6, you could run away from fights that were a no win situation. Now you are trapped in a sewer.

I see what you are saying. But it's always been a math equation. Ask guys like Deltia, Sypher, and Ezareth. That on one screen they are playing/testing the game and on another screen they have an Excel spreadsheet open.

I wish I was that committed.

guess and check, guess and check, guess and check.

Saw your vid of what was it 1V10 in IC with your Templar. you scary.

Gunphu

Any game that drastically changes its flavor to appeal to more players tends to alienate its core supporters and ends in ruin. Fix it till its broken i guess. I just do not understand such drastic changes. Also why nerf overall damage AND 2-4 piece set bonuses. They double nerfed damage!

JDar

I want waffles

JDar

Ezareth wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

Zerging is the inherent nature of non - war zone type matches where you have 8v8. Sorry but apparently they have not educated you on what WORLD PVP and AvAvA combat really is. If you don't want to be in a zerg, part of an alliance that zergs, or simply cant understand what a zerg really is, than you can not have an "I" win button. Perhaps you should play a FPS type came like halo or some call of duty. Please stop complaining about it and simply accept it. Honestly there is absolutely NOTHING you can do but cry on the forums and frankly I think everyone is tired of mopping up the tears that flow regularly here at ZOS Land.

All I can say is in my 130-140 days playing in Cyrodiil, I've found that it is rare to find a player who possess skill that regularly runs with a Zerg. They exist but they are the exception not the rule.

On the flip side, the people I tend to respect and fear facing the most are the guys who live out in the "wild" alone and outnumbered or in small elite groups facing a far larger number of players.

If ZoS intended for the game to be Zerg v Zerg they wouldn't have made a class that was designed to operate out of stealth.

There is a place for Zerging and nothing wrong with people who like that style of play....but there is also nothing wrong with other players who desire to actually be challenged in PvP yet not so overwhelmed that they never stood a chance. There should be places and content designed to accommodate both.

I dunno man, I guess there are some people who think that proving to a bunch of strangers how good you are at a video game matters a whole lot. And then I'm sure there are people who think it makes you a better person too. I wouldn't know.

Draxys

Gunphu wrote: »

Fix it till its broken

Zos are making a profession of this.

contact.opiumb16_ESO

AJ_1988 wrote: »

Also with people not dying and the healing recieved reduced even more does that mean Templars are even more useless in pvp? Way to go ZOS effing Templars in the butt even more. Pretty soon this game will only consist of sorcs and nbs with no life and that will a small player base.

In fact i have tested my heavy magicka templar in IC, and he is very good. I killed 1vs1 DK, NB, templar but not sorcerers, they move too fast even with the tp nerf.

Lilarna

Lord_Hev wrote: »

They took away all your skills and passives. You need to redistribute all your skill points back into all your passives.

Oups sorry wrong interpretation here

Septimus_Magna

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

AJ_1988 wrote: »

Also with people not dying and the healing recieved reduced even more does that mean Templars are even more useless in pvp? Way to go ZOS effing Templars in the butt even more. Pretty soon this game will only consist of sorcs and nbs with no life and that will a small player base.

In fact i have tested my heavy magicka templar in IC, and he is very good. I killed 1vs1 DK, NB, templar but not sorcerers, they move too fast even with the tp nerf.

You dont use a gap closer on your Templar?

contact.opiumb16_ESO

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

AJ_1988 wrote: »

Also with people not dying and the healing recieved reduced even more does that mean Templars are even more useless in pvp? Way to go ZOS effing Templars in the butt even more. Pretty soon this game will only consist of sorcs and nbs with no life and that will a small player base.

In fact i have tested my heavy magicka templar in IC, and he is very good. I killed 1vs1 DK, NB, templar but not sorcerers, they move too fast even with the tp nerf.

You dont use a gap closer on your Templar?

Yes, topling charge.

The build here :
http://www.esohead.com/calculator/skills#1.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

Lucky28

Lilarna wrote: »

Lord_Hev wrote: »

They took away all your skills and passives. You need to redistribute all your skill points back into all your passives.



I know this is like that customer support derp asking if you plugged it in, but it's true. And I mean ALL your passives. Scroll through every skill-line to ensure you have all your needed passives for your build.

I'm sorry, but it is insane to complain about the skill respec !!! It's a great thing that they do it since it's so expensive, and it's not like it's going to take you barely one minute to get your skill points back the way you wanted them to be if you're going to use the same build.

There's just no way that what you say can be a valid complaint.

He actually wasn't complaining about it. Just reminding people to check and make sure they didn't miss any of their passives.