Yeah this 50% Damage reduction is not cutting it.

Lucky28

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think the damage nerf was a bit too much, but, honestly, I haven't had too much of a problem killing people. Except Sorcs, they're still shield stacking their way to escape lol, except now they're sprinting and recasting shields (I seriously saw multiple Sorcs doing this last night, was like....are you that afraid of a fight? xD ), but I think once I get my vr14 weapons and armor crafted, I'll hit like a truck again.

Haha really escape for a sorc is actually easier in this version then in 1.6 by a long shot. defensive rune is now very quick to cast, use boundless storm in between streak/BoL cooldown period and you don't even have to worry that much about damage. sprinting tho haha

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

It's more about player freedom. in 1.6 grouping was extremely beneficial. however, it was still very possible to jump and an run solo. again it's just player freedom, which in my opinion is very important, specifically in an MMO

Xsorus

Oh and the nerf to detection pots did the thing I thought it would, make stealth stupid

All in all not a very good patch

DisgracefulMind

Lucky28 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think the damage nerf was a bit too much, but, honestly, I haven't had too much of a problem killing people. Except Sorcs, they're still shield stacking their way to escape lol, except now they're sprinting and recasting shields (I seriously saw multiple Sorcs doing this last night, was like....are you that afraid of a fight? xD ), but I think once I get my vr14 weapons and armor crafted, I'll hit like a truck again.

Haha really escape for a sorc is actually easier in this version then in 1.6 by a long shot. defensive rune is now very quick to cast, use boundless storm in between streak/BoL cooldown period and you don't even have to worry that much about damage. sprinting tho haha

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

It's more about player freedom. in 1.6 grouping was extremely beneficial. however, it was still very possible to jump and an run solo. again it's just player freedom, which in my opinion is very important, specifically in an MMO

I meant vr16 weapons in my comment, just a side note.

But yeah, I play Sorc too, and I definitely don't see the need to just sprint away, but I saw a few doing it lol. Hilarious. xD

Publius_Scipio

Xsorus wrote: »

Oh and the nerf to detection pots did the thing I thought it would, make stealth stupid

All in all not a very good patch

How were they nerfed? I actually remember reading somewhere they got kind of buffed. One person needs to use it and the whole group can detect an enemy. Something like that I think.

Publius_Scipio

Lucky28 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think the damage nerf was a bit too much, but, honestly, I haven't had too much of a problem killing people. Except Sorcs, they're still shield stacking their way to escape lol, except now they're sprinting and recasting shields (I seriously saw multiple Sorcs doing this last night, was like....are you that afraid of a fight? xD ), but I think once I get my vr14 weapons and armor crafted, I'll hit like a truck again.

Haha really escape for a sorc is actually easier in this version then in 1.6 by a long shot. defensive rune is now very quick to cast, use boundless storm in between streak/BoL cooldown period and you don't even have to worry that much about damage. sprinting tho haha

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

It's more about player freedom. in 1.6 grouping was extremely beneficial. however, it was still very possible to jump and an run solo. again it's just player freedom, which in my opinion is very important, specifically in an MMO

Usually when you are outnumbered you get beat. That's how things work. You need to think more before just jumping into the fray because in 1.6 you were a demigod and could wipe groups with two key clicks.

Ezareth

Manoekin wrote: »

A lot of QQ in this thread. As far as damage goes I've seen people doing lots of damage, so really your build just sucks. I've also seen magicka DK's killing more than they numbered. A group of 2 specifically yesterday were able to handle like 10 players if they did things right. Unfortunately people can't just mash keys and watch other people die anymore.

Magicka DK right now is sitting very pretty when played correctly. Ton of AOE abilities and several resource regeneration options that aren't gimped by the block nerf. I'm glad to see they're being brought more in line after the embarrassment they were at the end of 1.6

For those of you running out of stamina the calculations were changed and many things were nerfed and removed.

NBs lost 15% stam regen from Refreshing Shadows
WWs lost 15% stam regen unless they slot the ultimate (lol)
Vamps lost 10% stam/mag regen unless they slot a vamp ability.
Racial passives, vamp/WW, and emp used to be multiplicative with your other stam bonuses, now they are additive like the rest.
Drink isn't stacking with Champion passives (I don't think this was fixed yet)
Everyone lost Emp passives
At Vet 16 your abilities are ~1.75% more expensive but your base regen doesn't increase.

I went from 3096 Stam Regen with Drink in 1.6 to 2330 in 2.1 and this was *after* shifting 40 additional CPs into the mooncalf passive than I had in 1.6

Emma_Overload

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

I could not agree with this more! People keep trying to give ZOS "advice" on how to break up zergs, but they don't realize that ZOS loves zergs. Everything about ESO's PvP is designed to encourage the formation of large groups.

Lucky28

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think the damage nerf was a bit too much, but, honestly, I haven't had too much of a problem killing people. Except Sorcs, they're still shield stacking their way to escape lol, except now they're sprinting and recasting shields (I seriously saw multiple Sorcs doing this last night, was like....are you that afraid of a fight? xD ), but I think once I get my vr14 weapons and armor crafted, I'll hit like a truck again.

Haha really escape for a sorc is actually easier in this version then in 1.6 by a long shot. defensive rune is now very quick to cast, use boundless storm in between streak/BoL cooldown period and you don't even have to worry that much about damage. sprinting tho haha

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

It's more about player freedom. in 1.6 grouping was extremely beneficial. however, it was still very possible to jump and an run solo. again it's just player freedom, which in my opinion is very important, specifically in an MMO

Usually when you are outnumbered you get beat. That's how things work. You need to think more before just jumping into the fray because in 1.6 you were a demigod and could wipe groups with two key clicks.

you see it's comments like this i don't understand. sure you where powerful in 1.6 but so was everyone else, you made one mistake and you where dead (that felt more like war to me) and yet it's this patch where i can face tank everything while wearing light armor that i have to think more about jumping into combat?. i am far less concerned about my strategies in this patch then i was in 1.6 by a long shot.

Septimus_Magna

Ezareth wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

A lot of QQ in this thread. As far as damage goes I've seen people doing lots of damage, so really your build just sucks. I've also seen magicka DK's killing more than they numbered. A group of 2 specifically yesterday were able to handle like 10 players if they did things right. Unfortunately people can't just mash keys and watch other people die anymore.

Magicka DK right now is sitting very pretty when played correctly. Ton of AOE abilities and several resource regeneration options that aren't gimped by the block nerf. I'm glad to see they're being brought more in line after the embarrassment they were at the end of 1.6

For those of you running out of stamina the calculations were changed and many things were nerfed and removed.

NBs lost 15% stam regen from Refreshing Shadows
WWs lost 15% stam regen unless they slot the ultimate (lol)
Vamps lost 10% stam/mag regen unless they slot a vamp ability.
Racial passives, vamp/WW, and emp used to be multiplicative with your other stam bonuses, now they are additive like the rest.
Drink isn't stacking with Champion passives (I don't think this was fixed yet)
Everyone lost Emp passives
At Vet 16 your abilities are ~1.75% more expensive but your base regen doesn't increase.

I went from 3096 Stam Regen with Drink in 1.6 to 2330 in 2.1 and this was *after* shifting 40 additional CPs into the mooncalf passive than I had in 1.6

They nerfed sustain to decrease skill spamming to improve server performance and decreased damage to make survival easier so everyone will end up 'fully charged heavy attacking' each other to death.

lifefrombelowb14_ESO

Armitas wrote: »

Something is just wrong with our resources. I haven't changed a thing but I'm going empty really fast.

I have the exact opposite. I'm actually gaining stamina while sprinting and sneaking. I opened up my character stats and instead of the usual 15 or so stamina regen while doing such things I have 850ish.

Winnamine

lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Something is just wrong with our resources. I haven't changed a thing but I'm going empty really fast.

I have the exact opposite. I'm actually gaining stamina while sprinting and sneaking. I opened up my character stats and instead of the usual 15 or so stamina regen while doing such things I have 850ish.

You had 15 stamina regen before? how is that even possible? How did you move?

@Armitas - Check your mundus stone, mine was gone and I had to go reapply it. Also, there were changes and nerfs to some skills/armor sets/passives, so check if you lost some regen there. Otherwise, remember that you don't get your stamina regen from werewolf all the time anymore, and if you're a vamp, you only get your regen if you have a vampire ability slotted on the bar you're currently using.
The other possibility is that, because healing/damage/shields all got nerfed, you might be spamming your skills more than you did previously.

JDar

They never should have messed with it

Publius_Scipio

Lucky28 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

I think the damage nerf was a bit too much, but, honestly, I haven't had too much of a problem killing people. Except Sorcs, they're still shield stacking their way to escape lol, except now they're sprinting and recasting shields (I seriously saw multiple Sorcs doing this last night, was like....are you that afraid of a fight? xD ), but I think once I get my vr14 weapons and armor crafted, I'll hit like a truck again.

Haha really escape for a sorc is actually easier in this version then in 1.6 by a long shot. defensive rune is now very quick to cast, use boundless storm in between streak/BoL cooldown period and you don't even have to worry that much about damage. sprinting tho haha

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

It's more about player freedom. in 1.6 grouping was extremely beneficial. however, it was still very possible to jump and an run solo. again it's just player freedom, which in my opinion is very important, specifically in an MMO

Usually when you are outnumbered you get beat. That's how things work. You need to think more before just jumping into the fray because in 1.6 you were a demigod and could wipe groups with two key clicks.

you see it's comments like this i don't understand. sure you where powerful in 1.6 but so was everyone else, you made one mistake and you where dead (that felt more like war to me) and yet it's this patch where i can face tank everything while wearing light armor that i have to think more about jumping into combat?. i am far less concerned about my strategies in this patch then i was in 1.6 by a long shot.

Actually it was more like certain very powerful individuals and groups were wiping up the general enemy player base ridiculously easy. There definitely wasn't this parity that your comment suggests existed.

Armitas

Winnamine wrote: »

lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Something is just wrong with our resources. I haven't changed a thing but I'm going empty really fast.

I have the exact opposite. I'm actually gaining stamina while sprinting and sneaking. I opened up my character stats and instead of the usual 15 or so stamina regen while doing such things I have 850ish.

You had 15 stamina regen before? how is that even possible? How did you move?

@Armitas - Check your mundus stone, mine was gone and I had to go reapply it. Also, there were changes and nerfs to some skills/armor sets/passives, so check if you lost some regen there. Otherwise, remember that you don't get your stamina regen from werewolf all the time anymore, and if you're a vamp, you only get your regen if you have a vampire ability slotted on the bar you're currently using.
The other possibility is that, because healing/damage/shields all got nerfed, you might be spamming your skills more than you did previously.

Thanks. I got my atronach back straight away but it still seems low, I guess its my set. I'm going to miss my WW stamina, just not worth losing 2 ultimate slots for it.

timidobserver

I was really hoping that the dev post in this thread wasn't a play nicely reminder.

Mystikkal

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

I agree its not a solo game.. but when fights are so heavily determined by numbers its become silly. Don't get me wrong, good groups can still have an impact.. but when the game becomes a math equation, that's not a good thing. Right now it's - ok you have this much dmg, we have this much healing. At least in 1.6, you could run away from fights that were a no win situation. Now you are trapped in a sewer.

JDar

Don't worry once players like me get another hundred or so CP into thaumaturge and spell erosion it will be just like 1.6 again. Then who knows maybe they will change Battle Spirit to 60% damage reduction. Then 70...80...90...

And then maybe, just maybe, they will be forced to start making smart decisions about gameplay balance once the damage reduction starts approaching the 100% limit lol

Publius_Scipio

Mystikkal wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

I agree its not a solo game.. but when fights are so heavily determined by numbers its become silly. Don't get me wrong, good groups can still have an impact.. but when the game becomes a math equation, that's not a good thing. Right now it's - ok you have this much dmg, we have this much healing. At least in 1.6, you could run away from fights that were a no win situation. Now you are trapped in a sewer.

I see what you are saying. But it's always been a math equation. Ask guys like Deltia, Sypher, and Ezareth. That on one screen they are playing/testing the game and on another screen they have an Excel spreadsheet open.

lifefrombelowb14_ESO

Winnamine wrote: »

lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Something is just wrong with our resources. I haven't changed a thing but I'm going empty really fast.

I have the exact opposite. I'm actually gaining stamina while sprinting and sneaking. I opened up my character stats and instead of the usual 15 or so stamina regen while doing such things I have 850ish.

You had 15 stamina regen before? how is that even possible? How did you move?

@Armitas - Check your mundus stone, mine was gone and I had to go reapply it. Also, there were changes and nerfs to some skills/armor sets/passives, so check if you lost some regen there. Otherwise, remember that you don't get your stamina regen from werewolf all the time anymore, and if you're a vamp, you only get your regen if you have a vampire ability slotted on the bar you're currently using.
The other possibility is that, because healing/damage/shields all got nerfed, you might be spamming your skills more than you did previously.

While moving in stealth it drops your regen to a very low number, otherwise reduction passives would be useless and the game would become the craziest game of hide n seek ever. My number with all my passives used to be 15 while moving in stealth. It was 2200ish while not moving or out of stealth. Now my stamina bar goes 99%-100%-99%-100%.

Recremen

I like the change so far, but we'll see how things progress. It seems much more engaging to have at least a couple more exchanges before a fight is over. Previously, if I caught someone with a single wrecking blow, even if they broke free, the fight was over (barring some kind of good mitigation build). It was actually starting to get so predictable I'd be buffering my movement to leave while my last few strikes were finishing their animations. Now I have a serious advantage, but they have time to recover and keep me on my toes. I have to ask myself if I should use my ultimate now or risk waiting for a good CC hit. I get to weave in more heavy attacks, which are by far my favorite things to manage to land. It's just such a violent pleasure now, full of nuance.

I'm sure my tune will change a bit when I run into some ungodly mitigation build with infinite resources and lots of CC and escape skills, but we'll see.

olsborg

They should have reduced overall dmg by around 15%, (not 30% like they did) same for shields and healing. And why its so easy stacking weapon dmg to 3k still without too much effort, you have to work pretty darn hard to just get 2.5k spelldmg. This difference needs to be balanced.

Tonturri

50% is way too much. I'm awful at PvP and just wandered into it for essentially the first time today...two people failed to kill me, teh fight went on for 5+ minutes before I got bored and spent all my magicka to escape. VR16 sorcerer, vr14 gear.

Edit: See? This is ridiculous. I suck and just won a 1v2. Maybe they sucked too, but still...

Yonkit

Winnamine wrote: »

It's still pretty new to us, and most of us are still running our 1.6 setups, or something very similar. Idk, the adjustment period is rough, but give it a month and I'll bet people will have found ways to be one-shotting each other once again.

This is a huge part of it. The v15 and v16 gear is a sizable increase in raw stats and most people who were stacking spell or weapon power are now hitting for less because of the set changes. Personally I'm weaker than I was in the pts because I'm not going to craft my new gear until I get v16 stuff, which will take awhile.

That being said... I came across someone last night and 2 shot him from stealth with the same heavy attack/flying blade combo that I used all the time in 1.6. Some things never change.

Also. Hate the block change. I think it's screwing with my stam regen when I medium weave. I think I'm missing regen ticks by momentarily clicking block, but it's hard to gauge with all the changes.

Ezareth

Yonkit wrote: »

Also. Hate the block change. I think it's screwing with my stam regen when I medium weave. I think I'm missing regen ticks by momentarily clicking block, but it's hard to gauge with all the changes.

Yup.

Especially when you get those templar just spamming jabs up in yo face. Blocking them screws you, not blocking them screws you and you're breaking free on cooldown nonstop.

I don't see too many changes in my build happening from 1.6 to 2.1 though. I traded out Relentless Focus for Vigor and I shifted 40 more CP in Mooncalf to help with Stam regen but that's about it. I'll be switching cost reduction to Stamina regen as soon as I get some V16 jewelry worth equipping.

tplink3r1

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Mystikkal wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The whole point of these changes was to make 1vX as hard as possible. The entire premises of these updates was to push folks into groups and make the deciding factor the size of your group. I figured this out very quickly on the PTS. Im sad to see they didn't dial back that damage reduction and healing received a bit.

Before folks complained they died to fast, now we can't kill anyone...sounds like a grand time!

i'll check back from time to time i guess....

Yeah I honestly lost some serious motivation after playing last night. They continue to promote zerging. Whatever skill factor there was in this game is quickly diminishing

Another "promoting zerging" comment.... In a game designed, built, and marketed as a massive brawl-for-all three way alliance war.

Wait till ZOS brings me on ESO Live. I will address you all properly.

massive battles doesn't mean 30+ players clipping on each other and spamming AOE.

Fruitdog

also not many people are running v15 drinks and potions yet so that should help out with resources when everyone gets kitted out

Yonkit

Ezareth wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Also. Hate the block change. I think it's screwing with my stam regen when I medium weave. I think I'm missing regen ticks by momentarily clicking block, but it's hard to gauge with all the changes.

Yup.

Especially when you get those templar just spamming jabs up in yo face. Blocking them screws you, not blocking them screws you and you're breaking free on cooldown nonstop.

I don't see too many changes in my build happening from 1.6 to 2.1 though. I traded out Relentless Focus for Vigor and I shifted 40 more CP in Mooncalf to help with Stam regen but that's about it. I'll be switching cost reduction to Stamina regen as soon as I get some V16 jewelry worth equipping.

Since I run more power focus than sustain focus I have several adjustments that I plan to make so that my damage will go up but keep the minimum threshold for regen, then of course there's the experimenting with new things as well that I need to do. Fortunately the new IC dungeons are hard enough that I want to grind them!

s7732425ub17_ESO

I only run solo. I went to IC yesterday and loved the new changes. I can survive in 1vXs and not instantly die in 2 seconds. Good groups that just stack CCs on me will still kill me fine, but inexperienced groups can no longer just focus me down. Also, with the damage and healing reduction, a lot more fights happen between players that have really low health. It's much more exciting.

Ezareth

Fruitdog wrote: »

also not many people are running v15 drinks and potions yet so that should help out with resources when everyone gets kitted out

Have both and the difference is negligible sadly.

You get 1000 more stam/mag from a V15 pot compared to a V5 pot with the same regen bonus.

The Drink is another 20 or so stam/mag at V15 blue compared to V10 Blue

JDar

sigh so frustrating this game