Why can't we inspect others?

CaineCarver

I tried to read most of this thread before commenting. The big point I think many who are on the side of privacy to protect the casual gamer from "elites" is that it also robs the casual gamer of the best tool to learn about gearing. The ability to look at the gear of seasoned players of similar builds and learn.

I have been online gaming since the late 1980s and every game I played until ESO allowed some form of inspection of other players to lesser or greater degrees. There is a great wealth of information about ESO on the web and just a GOOGLE away but day after day I see "casual" gamers asking questions in chat that require in detail , lengthy answers that are too much for text chat replyies. Yet among casual gamers there is a large resistance to using voice chat programs to gain information from others or improving grouping. These same gamers seem reluctant to search the internet for answers but somehow expect other players to provide answers.

Not being able to look around you and see the gear of others is just one more disadvantage to these casual gamers. Thinking you might be judged or exclude because you have wrong or poor gear is nothing close to the exclusion you would face for coming in to a group only to have the group fail because you can not carry your weight in the instance. Many players would give you tips and help to get better but if you waste up to a couple of hours of their time failing to complete an instance they are not likely to group with you or help you again.

The problem is simple if you join a group to fill the roll of a 3rd level Vet Tank the other 3 people are counting on you to be able to do that. If your build, gear or play ability falls far short of that they suffer because of it. If you want to be "free" to play and equip as you please then you should not expect others to be willing to pull you through quests at their expense.

Mdl518

And I just laugh off the elitists because honestly they'll mostle be gone in a few years moving on to the next game they're gonna take too serious and ruin....it's a game LOL , and I think people forget that

Florial

Blade_07 wrote: »

If we could examine other players gear then petty little elitists have something do and we cant have that!!! BUT, this could still be implemented but give the player the option to turn that off so people cant see your gear. Was that way in FFXI and worked fine. People that had awesome gear could flaunt it and that makes it easy for other players to see what is good and aim for the same gear.

Not a bad idea at all. I'm pretty casual but have often inspected someone's gear if they are doing an awesome job DPSing, tanking or healing in other games. I've also downloaded DPS meters to look at my performance and to gage myself against others. It is nice when I can see myself improving as I've played the game. Never in my gaming time have I said anything to another player about gear, DPS, etc. I use it more as a tool to improve my own game play and not to coach others. I find people who take it upon themselves to give unsolicited coaching a bit annoying since it often is done not in a nice manner.

Unfortunately, these tools will always be abused. The petty players could always insist someone turn on the inspection option to get into groups. Then again, if someone is being a jackass and insisting, it probably isn't a group you would want to be in anyway.

Hard call. I've really enjoyed ESO this second time around. The community is refreshing compared to some other games out there. My dungeons groups that I've done have been awesome experiences,, even if our group hasn't been successful.

Casdha

The fact of the matter is, that it is the way it is because ZOS made it this way because of community feedback, I believe way back in the beta days. If folks want it changed, they are gonna have to come up with valid arguments, not name calling, and convince enough of the population that it is a good thing.

Fighting about it will get you no where.

So far I have not seen enough evidence for ZOS to change this, that is not saying that folks can't convince them to change it one day, but from what I've seen here, I highly doubt it will happen.

Edit: I should also say that back in the day a lot of folks against this didn't want you to be able to see anything with add-ons including Mob and boss health numbers (just bars) because folks would pick and choose their battles or players stamina and magicka numbers because they felt it was private. Those arguments were lost because their was not a good enough arguments to support it.

mrdankles

I'm all for inspections, have an option to enable/disable that option. Those who run dungeons and trials should be able to inspect and kick, why should a greenie cause problems for others? Mostly just for max level. Should only be able to do dungeons and inspect those of the same faction. I agree, don't let your enemy see your build but there SHOULD be a seperation of elite from casual players. I don't want some nub being one shotted or have a lack of dps/heals because he/she keeps dying over and over. Causes problems for the people who actually want a good run.

Callous2208

Mawgusta wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

mrdankles wrote: »

Should have the ability to inspect and kick.

This is the reason I say NO !

Oh come on once you start the run most bad players will get kick right away. Better to know before hand instead of in the run.

... and next time every weak player or with wrong set will be kicked ! I played Tera .... one missing itemlevel point .. kick.
Oh I see you never runned this dungeon .... kick.

I say again NO, for a better MMO world with more team play !

LOL how come I feel like you are one of those players that refuse to try and make a good character. Where you get kicked a lot.

.... your comment encouraged me ! A inspect system will be abused by the most, believe me !

It works in all other games yet you guys act like it wouldn't work in this game. Too funny!

Seems to me like a good number of people moved to ESO because those other games were not "working," for them. The inspections and elitist attitude at end game and throughout was most likely one of the many factors that caused the switch.

No wait, I'm with you man on the entire elitist attitudes issue. Its real and it game killer for so many, but, a huge but, it's not the inspections or anything they think that can hold us back. It's that they have the power to hold us back. The games are broken when you can't get a group because of your gear and inspection. I use to be able to carry people in mmorpgs. My friends skill levels didn't matter. You get people on a mind set that "this must be earned and bad players don't deserve it" that what you end up with. Developers have to start ignoring that aspect of this genre. I use to be really good. My friend could die and I could beat the boss solo. Not that everything should be easy. Yet, I should be able to group with my horrible friends. Not dump in a ditch because they're not skilled. There ahs to be a readjustment to what everything means. I think what should be left behind are the players that want bad players to get nil. It make since on one level, but on another it's just stupid. I like people and I want to group with people I like. Not be forced to group with the best in the universe. I guess that why I am bitter about mmpgs lately. They cater to these guys the think theyre the best. I have a record going back to Ultima Online, achievements, world firsts in so many games, but I game with bad players, my friends, good players my friends. I abhor, hate, detest games that make me upgrade like a desperate women to the next best thing. I want to keep my friends. Not kick them aside because they don't meets the end. I want to carry them if I have to. I want the games to be created in that manner.

Im tired of elitist guilds demanding when I can run circles around them. I don't care enough to be ditching good people. Games should be designed on the average for good people to not be trashed for the sake of skill. Im skilled. I can go anywhere in any game. It means jack sht to me if I have to group with a team of pricks that demand the best. I want my crappy friends. That's all.

Elegantly stated. Your thoughts on the matter mirror my own in nearly every aspect.

wraith808

k9mouse wrote: »

Tessie wrote: »

~CUT~! Some possible reasons for not wanting inspection:

1. Not wanting to share a successful build with the enemy
2. Not wanting to see copies of my unique appearance worn by others
3. Not wanting to be excluded from a group
4. Not wanting to be judged by others

There is no enough reasons NOT to have inspection of others!

In your opinion. But in others opinions, there are. And for right now, ZOS is on that side. So...

NBrookus

I am amused at the number of comments about how "noobs" or "greenies" or people with so-called imperfect builds will RUIN the game for everyone else.

RUINED, I tell you!

How about: "Less fun for me."

If you are that particular about who is perfect enough to play with your elite awesomeness, you probably shouldn't be doing PUGs anyway. Isn't that exactly what guilds are for? To connect like-minded players with each other?

Quigster

Ratbert wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

you should have stated they waist your time, not everyone's time.

Nope. Everyone's. If the group has a singular focus of getting through content and is being drug down by a party member with deficiencies then they are wasting everyone's time. If it's learning that can be fixed on the fly for the most part. If it is gear they will need to come back at a later date.

Do not propose to be my advocate. I most certainly do not need you speaking for me.

Lava_Croft

Being able to inspect someone's gear will just cater to all the clones who think it's a build that makes the player, not the skill.

If you want to know someone's gear, you can just ask.

RAGUNAnoOne

If I ever become a high level and possibly "good" player and display the type of attitude that I am seeing on the "lets have this feature" side of this debate, you have permission to give me a good kick in the ass.

xaraan

cuz it's none of your business what my build is

if I want you to know, I'll tell you

Ratbert

Quigster wrote: »

Ratbert wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

you should have stated they waist your time, not everyone's time.

Nope. Everyone's. If the group has a singular focus of getting through content and is being drug down by a party member with deficiencies then they are wasting everyone's time. If it's learning that can be fixed on the fly for the most part. If it is gear they will need to come back at a later date.

Do not propose to be my advocate. I most certainly do not need you speaking for me.

Then you are not on the side of the fence I game on and thus I am not your advocate. Easy peasy....

Taylor21554

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Taylor21554 wrote: »

I'm really baffles that you guys can't comprehend what I'm trying to say I'm done posting on this thread it is so stupid and you guys are really stupid. if you honestly think that people wearing stamina gear when they are healers is appropriate for being a healer then you need to GTFO

I've lost count how many times you've thrown your toys out of the pram in the space of 4 short pages. Really is embarrassing if you are indeed over the age of 12. No doubt you'll be back in this thread posting before announcing you're departure from it again in an overly dramatic fashion. If you, I or anyone else were never to post in this thread again, our absence wouldn't be noticed, so no idea why you have to announce your departure like anyone will actually miss you. Seriously, the thread won't go downhill as a result of you not being part of it.

You are the kind of person that argues with his mother when she is right and you think you're right and you keep going. The reason why you defend so much in this thread, yes, in my opinion!!! Is that your gear is low grade, and even worse your play style is garbage at best

SirAndy

Taylor21554 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Taylor21554 wrote: »

I'm really baffles that you guys can't comprehend what I'm trying to say I'm done posting on this thread it is so stupid and you guys are really stupid. if you honestly think that people wearing stamina gear when they are healers is appropriate for being a healer then you need to GTFO

I've lost count how many times you've thrown your toys out of the pram in the space of 4 short pages. Really is embarrassing if you are indeed over the age of 12. No doubt you'll be back in this thread posting before announcing you're departure from it again in an overly dramatic fashion. If you, I or anyone else were never to post in this thread again, our absence wouldn't be noticed, so no idea why you have to announce your departure like anyone will actually miss you. Seriously, the thread won't go downhill as a result of you not being part of it.

You are the kind of person that argues with his mother when she is right and you think you're right and you keep going. The reason why you defend so much in this thread, yes, in my opinion!!! Is that your gear is low grade, and even worse your play style is garbage at best

I think @Prof_Bawbag hit the nail on the proverbial head ...

likelolwhat

Taylor21554 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Taylor21554 wrote: »

I'm really baffles that you guys can't comprehend what I'm trying to say I'm done posting on this thread it is so stupid and you guys are really stupid. if you honestly think that people wearing stamina gear when they are healers is appropriate for being a healer then you need to GTFO

I've lost count how many times you've thrown your toys out of the pram in the space of 4 short pages. Really is embarrassing if you are indeed over the age of 12. No doubt you'll be back in this thread posting before announcing you're departure from it again in an overly dramatic fashion. If you, I or anyone else were never to post in this thread again, our absence wouldn't be noticed, so no idea why you have to announce your departure like anyone will actually miss you. Seriously, the thread won't go downhill as a result of you not being part of it.

You are the kind of person that argues with his mother when she is right and you think you're right and you keep going. The reason why you defend so much in this thread, yes, in my opinion!!! Is that your gear is low grade, and even worse your play style is garbage at best

So... you're everyone's mother now?

'Cause that's pretty much what you're implying.

Also, congrats on staying away~

Epona222

Er, yeah, no thanks... I want to run a dungeon with my friends and have fun, not go in a PUG with someone judgemental who criticises me because my build and gear isn't exactly what they want it to be for their elitist speed run (that for some reason they are searching for randoms to recruit to because they ran out of friends).

Balasarius

I like inspecting people to see what cool armor they're wearing so I can try to get it for myself.

Esofasion is absolutely useless.

Prof_Bawbag

Taylor21554 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Taylor21554 wrote: »

I'm really baffles that you guys can't comprehend what I'm trying to say I'm done posting on this thread it is so stupid and you guys are really stupid. if you honestly think that people wearing stamina gear when they are healers is appropriate for being a healer then you need to GTFO

I've lost count how many times you've thrown your toys out of the pram in the space of 4 short pages. Really is embarrassing if you are indeed over the age of 12. No doubt you'll be back in this thread posting before announcing you're departure from it again in an overly dramatic fashion. If you, I or anyone else were never to post in this thread again, our absence wouldn't be noticed, so no idea why you have to announce your departure like anyone will actually miss you. Seriously, the thread won't go downhill as a result of you not being part of it.

You are the kind of person that argues with his mother when she is right and you think you're right and you keep going. The reason why you defend so much in this thread, yes, in my opinion!!! Is that your gear is low grade, and even worse your play style is garbage at best

Again you say that like I actually care what you or anyone else for that matters thinks of my gear or play-style. It may be crap on both accounts. I have never claimed I was running the latest fashions or that i was some uber gamer. Thus that particular point of yours is irrelevant and shows you have no real argument if that's the best you can come back at me with.

I don't play the game or any game for that matter so I can impress virtual people in a virtual world. Unlike you, I'm not out to impress or have my ego stroked by people in-game or on these forums that I don't know from Adam. They mean nothing to me. Like i mean nothing to them.

Out of interest, if gear and what people think of you matters so much why are you even playing this game? There's other games out there that have a massive gamer base that cater to that sort of mentality. League of Legends being the most obvious one.

F7sus4

Kammakazi wrote: »

Why can't we inspect others?

Because you should want to build everything up yourself.

Belidos

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

I swear people need to get out of this loop of "We should have this!" "No, we don't need that!" when we can clearly have both with a toggle feature.

It's not as clear cut as that, I personally wouldn't like to have either inspection nor a toggle for inspection because of past experiences in games.

In Rift it got to the point where if you had inspection turned off you would never get in a raid group unless you turned it on. So despite having the toggle, the simple existence of inspection whether toggled or not was affecting peoples games, they were still being forced to disclose their gear to get raids spots.

I can't count the number of raid spots I missed out on because the raid leader was being an *** and I was refusing to show him my gear on principle. It didn't matter to me because I knew I had better gear than he did and that I could easily jump into any raid going by showing my gear IF the raid leader asked nicely and didn't act like a ****.

Just having an inspection feature turns people into elitists and ***hats and having it as a toggle doesn't change that.

LiquidZ

Seems like something that could discourage new players

mrskinskull

tplink3r1 wrote: »

too many casuals in the game.

Oh you must mean, too many casuals saving this game from financial ruin.

Sorry your original phrasing made you sound like an exclusionist.

mrskinskull

Tholian1 wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

because crap players are scared that it would lead to them being excluded (silly because achievements are currently used for that purpose regardless).

I wonder how many "crap players" have quit this game because of elitist attitudes. And what exactly qualifies someone as a crap player anyway?

Yeah he must not want the game to succeed, because he wouldn't he trying to drive off casuals as possible converts to his favored style and brand of game.

I for one welcome new players into the game, the more we get the longer the cash shop stays balanced.

Remember there's no sub, so be nice to the new players, them thinking this is multiplayer skyrim is saving this game, not the five elitist hard cores who demand everyone play exactly as they do.