Why can't we inspect others?

BigM

Callous2208 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

mrdankles wrote: »

Should have the ability to inspect and kick.

This is the reason I say NO !

Oh come on once you start the run most bad players will get kick right away. Better to know before hand instead of in the run.

... and next time every weak player or with wrong set will be kicked ! I played Tera .... one missing itemlevel point .. kick.
Oh I see you never runned this dungeon .... kick.

I say again NO, for a better MMO world with more team play !

LOL how come I feel like you are one of those players that refuse to try and make a good character. Where you get kicked a lot.

.... your comment encouraged me ! A inspect system will be abused by the most, believe me !

It works in all other games yet you guys act like it wouldn't work in this game. Too funny!

Seems to me like a good number of people moved to ESO because those other games were not "working," for them. The inspections and elitist attitude at end game and throughout was most likely one of the many factors that caused the switch.

You deserve a big LOL for this one!

paromont3b16_ESO

Taylor21554 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Taylor21554 wrote: »

don't you want a game that 75% of the population is actually properly geared instead of 50% of the population is terribly good and there is no competition

"Properly geared" according to whom?

I rest my case ...

According to who? Are you kidding me. I even have a flipping example. People that wear stamina gear that are magicka users and are healing, etc are not "properly geared"

According to me and 99% of other people that know what stamina skills use stamina. And magicka skills use magicka. According to developers, everyone.

I had a tank yesterday with 8k magicka, 8k stamina, and 50k health who was also healing the group. So we ran him + 3 DPS and cleared the dungeon without an issue.

Starwhite

Callous2208 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

mrdankles wrote: »

Should have the ability to inspect and kick.

This is the reason I say NO !

Oh come on once you start the run most bad players will get kick right away. Better to know before hand instead of in the run.

... and next time every weak player or with wrong set will be kicked ! I played Tera .... one missing itemlevel point .. kick.
Oh I see you never runned this dungeon .... kick.

I say again NO, for a better MMO world with more team play !

LOL how come I feel like you are one of those players that refuse to try and make a good character. Where you get kicked a lot.

.... your comment encouraged me ! A inspect system will be abused by the most, believe me !

It works in all other games yet you guys act like it wouldn't work in this game. Too funny!

Seems to me like a good number of people moved to ESO because those other games were not "working," for them. The inspections and elitist attitude at end game and throughout was most likely one of the many factors that caused the switch.

I played Tera more than two years, was founder and lead of a strong guild. We cleared every dungeon and helped random players to become better. Most times you only read at the tera lfg channel, not this class, not these itemlevel players and so on.
Every MMO I played, some players forget where they start from.
A failed run is not a drama and everybody can learn from a fail. If someone needs help, help him, explain and teach.

A inspect ...... the most player will not learn and become better. If you need a inspect to run a dungeon, you should only run with your friends. Better for everbody ....

TalonShina

[/quote]

I had a tank yesterday with 8k magicka, 8k stamina, and 50k health who was also healing the group. So we ran him + 3 DPS and cleared the dungeon without an issue.[/quote]

And that is the beauty of this game and why a gear score or inspections should not be in game because that tank would've likely been insta kicked for saying he could heal as well. That actually sounds similar to something I am trying to achieve with my character although not sure if i'll ever be able to do it at the same time

Callous2208

Starwhite wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

mrdankles wrote: »

Should have the ability to inspect and kick.

This is the reason I say NO !

Oh come on once you start the run most bad players will get kick right away. Better to know before hand instead of in the run.

... and next time every weak player or with wrong set will be kicked ! I played Tera .... one missing itemlevel point .. kick.
Oh I see you never runned this dungeon .... kick.

I say again NO, for a better MMO world with more team play !

LOL how come I feel like you are one of those players that refuse to try and make a good character. Where you get kicked a lot.

.... your comment encouraged me ! A inspect system will be abused by the most, believe me !

It works in all other games yet you guys act like it wouldn't work in this game. Too funny!

Seems to me like a good number of people moved to ESO because those other games were not "working," for them. The inspections and elitist attitude at end game and throughout was most likely one of the many factors that caused the switch.

I played Tera more than two years, was founder and lead of a strong guild. We cleared every dungeon and helped random players to become better. Most times you only read at the tera lfg channel, not this class, not these itemlevel players and so on.
Every MMO I played, some players forget where they start from.
A failed run is not a drama and everybody can learn from a fail. If someone needs help, help him, explain and teach.

A inspect ...... the most player will not learn and become better. If you need a inspect to run a dungeon, you should only run with your friends. Better for everbody ....

Agreed.

rokrdt05

Taylor21554 wrote: »

I'm really baffles that you guys can't comprehend what I'm trying to say I'm done posting on this thread it is so stupid and you guys are really stupid. if you honestly think that people wearing stamina gear when they are healers is appropriate for being a healer then you need to GTFO

Where is the "LOL" button when you need one?

The fact that you only consider gear to make a viable build is laughable. You must have forgotten the fact that CP can make a lot of "unique" builds viable, even if they don't fit into your description of a correct build. I could honestly put on all stamina gear on my Templar and heal ANY dungeon without issue because of skill and CP.

PvP'ers are known for the hybrid builds, that many PvE'ers don't think make any sense... but in fact that do. They may not be min/maxed builds, but they are still viable.

Now I'm not saying every build is going to be viable and/or good... but it's not your place or mine to tell someone how they should play and gear their characters. If they want help with their build, I'm sure they will ask... if they are unaware of how "unviable" their build is, I'm sure someone will eventually point it out and they will either accept the help or not... but again, it's THEIR choice. You can always choose to not run with them.

I'm honestly not for the inspection part myself, as I like to keep my personal builds private as I am a min/maxer myself and feel that everyone should run build/gear set up that they've come up with and not copy someone else's build. That's not to say I won't help with generalizations, but it's personal choice not to share my exact build.

wraith808

Dymence wrote: »

I despise people who knowingly and willingly wear gear that makes them perform bad in their role, and as such pull down their group making it significantly harder for the people they're grouping with, all for THEIR own PERSONAL fun.

You don't get to have fun on the expense of other people. Do that *** with your friends, not with pugs.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

Well then... communicate. Ask them what they're wearing. Ask them how they're geared. Then tell them that they have to have all heavy gear to tank. I'd laugh and say ok. But that would be better than join... inspect... kick... without a word said.

And before you say that won't happen, I've seen it in other games. And usually when I see it in a group I'm in... I leave too. But I say a few choice words before I do.

And you despise people? That's... a strongly worded statement about people that you don't know. Annoyed, maybe. Don't agree with. But despise?

Quigster

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

No to inspections... I am here to have fun, not measure up to someone else's standards.

This pretty much sums it up.

Dymence

wraith808 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I despise people who knowingly and willingly wear gear that makes them perform bad in their role, and as such pull down their group making it significantly harder for the people they're grouping with, all for THEIR own PERSONAL fun.

You don't get to have fun on the expense of other people. Do that *** with your friends, not with pugs.

That's all I have to say on the matter.

Well then... communicate. Ask them what they're wearing. Ask them how they're geared. Then tell them that they have to have all heavy gear to tank. I'd laugh and say ok. But that would be better than join... inspect... kick... without a word said.

And before you say that won't happen, I've seen it in other games. And usually when I see it in a group I'm in... I leave too. But I say a few choice words before I do.

And you despise people? That's... a strongly worded statement about people that you don't know. Annoyed, maybe. Don't agree with. But despise?

I can usually carry through any pug run and I don't really kick people, ever. I don't mind teaching them how to do runs and giving them advice on what to wear.

They key words from my original post were "knowingly and willingly", meaning they know their gear is bad, wearing a set no one ever uses, just because they feel it is 'fun' to use. This is what I call having fun on the expense of others. And yes, I despise people who don't care about the feelings of others just to have their own fun.

Perhaps I have run with such people, I wouldn't know. That doesn't change my opinion on the matter, I just don't enforce it with asking people about their gear and kicking them for it, because I can pull groups through regardless.

Casdha

Ratbert wrote: »

LOL If you want to shop at goodwill don't expect to get into a fancy steakhouse.

I've got a buddy who has a Law Doctorate and is a Professor and his wife is an Attorney, every time he comes to town he hits the Goodwill and they've had some of the fanciest dang meals I've seen and a lot of his ties and a few suit jackets came from Goodwill I'm sure he wears them to Fancy restaurants all the time.
Steak houses are not for the rich just for the folks who like a good meal. As for myself I go in with a tank top, shorts, flip flops and a dirty ball cap but when they know you and that you'll leave a $40 tip for an $80 meal if you get good service you tend to get good service regardless of what you wear.

Now back to topic,

Ratbert wrote: »

if they can't contribute because they are running out of resources or are not performing due to gear limitations they will need to work towards that goal or they are wasting everyone's time.

you should have stated they waist your time, not everyone's time.

RizaHawkeye

SirAndy wrote: »

Taylor21554 wrote: »

don't you want a game that 75% of the population is actually properly geared instead of 50% of the population is terribly good and there is no competition

"Properly geared" according to whom?

I rest my case ...

This.

@SirAndy is right. Now I would have to start dressing the way you want me to? Skilling the way you want me to? Or what? You won't let me play with you?

This doesn't sound elitist: it sounds infantile.

Reverb

I do not support player inspection in ESO. In my experience, inspection makes a game community more toxic. I don't give 2 figs what @Taylor21554 or any other random thinks of my build. It works for me, and it works for my guild groups.It's a regular part of conversation with the handful of people who's opinion I value.

And I don't usually care about anybody else's build either. if neither my pve nor pvp guilds are doing anything, I run with pledge pugs, multiple times a day with different groups. Working with sub-optimal groups has made me a better, more adaptive player. And I'd like to think that I've helped others improve as well. The improvement seldom has anything to do with gear, but skill roatarion, positioning, combat awareness, and mechanics. Things they would never get an opportunity to learn if they were kicked because of player inspection. .

FearlessOne_2014

bareheiny wrote: »

Coming from DCUO, I have no major issues with inspection. And despite my initial objections, I'm not concerned about online viewing of characters either.

But it would most definitely get used for a basis for exclusion. Oh....you've equipped ABC? Well, that doesn't fit my expectation and I don't care to find out if it hobbles you or not, so....kick.


But for the love of all that is good in this world, do not - I repeat DO NOT - add a scoreboard to instances.

As a 105 CR Quantum Troll coming from DCUO. After a 8 month break from the game and came back absolutely nobody wanted to play with me because I didn't outgeared the content like themselves. As a result I could not play the game so I quit the game, and at the time SOE missed out on the $60 plus dollars I was spending on the game per a month. That was on the USPC Heroes server. I do not want a repeat of that. We all remember that time where sorcs was excluded from end game content in this game right? Yeah no thank you.

FearlessOne_2014

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

bareheiny wrote: »

Coming from DCUO, I have no major issues with inspection. And despite my initial objections, I'm not concerned about online viewing of characters either.

But it would most definitely get used for a basis for exclusion. Oh....you've equipped ABC? Well, that doesn't fit my expectation and I don't care to find out if it hobbles you or not, so....kick.


But for the love of all that is good in this world, do not - I repeat DO NOT - add a scoreboard to instances.

As a 105 CR Quantum Troll coming from DCUO. After a 8 month break from the game and came back absolutely nobody wanted to play with me because I didn't outgeared the content like themselves. As a result I could not play the game so I quit the game, and at the time SOE missed out on the $60 plus dollars I was spending on the game per a month. That was on the USPC Heroes server. I do not want a repeat of that. We all remember that time where sorcs was excluded from end game content in this game right? Yeah no thank you.

Tricky Being forever RIP

Ratbert

Casdha wrote: »

you should have stated they waist your time, not everyone's time.

Nope. Everyone's. If the group has a singular focus of getting through content and is being drug down by a party member with deficiencies then they are wasting everyone's time. If it's learning that can be fixed on the fly for the most part. If it is gear they will need to come back at a later date.

kogadrake

TalonShina wrote: »

And that is the beauty of this game and why a gear score or inspections should not be in game because that tank would've likely been insta kicked for saying he could heal as well. That actually sounds similar to something I am trying to achieve with my character although not sure if i'll ever be able to do it at the same time

but the people who would have kicked him for seeing his gear would also have kicked him for saying what he was doing. It worked out in this case, but most of the time it would not be the case and many people dont want to risk the time on a random doing something way out of the box. If it was a friend, they may humor them and let them try, and if it fails it was all good fun, and it may actually work out.

It was like this weekend when a friend tried to heal vDSA as a VR2, I only tanked the run because I knew him and thought it would be fun to laugh at him when he failed, and to my shock he didnt and if we had 2 competent DPS who were willing to make the same chance we would have finished but we didnt have good DPS.

Point is people who will be elitist will be elitist and find some way to score a player, and sadly what is available to use right now will actually be very arbitrary and a poor judge of skill/gear. At least with inspection if they will kick someone they have all the correct information for them to make said decision.

AmmonErebos

Inspecting players is sorely needed... too often there are people who are obviously poor dps.. they say their gear isnt the problem... yet moves are somewhat on par... and just go ahead without changing things... yes there will always be an ideal set for a certain build... but having set bonuses/weak set bonuses instead of more useful things is always easier... I have also often heard people say they are running 8 piece seducer gear... when there is no such thing as a 8 piece seducer bonus..

being able to inspect would allow easier coaching and assistance with the newer/less experienced players instead of them being stuck being unable to find advice as readily. (in other games where i could inspect gear, I often gave pointers as quite often players do not understand the gearing mechanics and therefore get gear that is useless to them)

and on the other hand... if a friend requests advice... only way to communicate is painful linking back and forth of the items... which takes a lot more time and is messier...

AzraelKrieg

Taylor21554 wrote: »

I'm really baffles that you guys can't comprehend what I'm trying to say I'm done posting on this thread it is so stupid and you guys are really stupid. if you honestly think that people wearing stamina gear when they are healers is appropriate for being a healer then you need to GTFO

Not all healers are templars and not all templar healers wear light armour. A sorc healer may not be viable having a boost to stamina even if it is small can help them in a pinch by using Dark Conversion, taking that extra stamina and turning it into health and magicka to further assist the group. I have a breton templar that I use as a healer. I've geared it out in 5 heavy and two light in item sets that will boost spell damage, max magicka and magicka recovery. It's not the meta by any means but while I was levelling it in non-vet PvP it was hard to take down. Going predominately heavy affects the magicka recovery and cost reduction it would have if it were all light but I traded it off for being more survivable. If you do nothing but follow the meta than you don't open yourself to potential growth.

Before 1.6 stamsorcs were largely unheard of because nothing could favour them due to sorcs being a very heavy magicka focused class. People still ran them because it was different. A templar healer with stamina attuned gear may have it as light armour for the passives and enchanted with magicka because having that extra stamina when things get tricky might help them out, you never know when the tank goes down because they stood in red and aggro for some reason is now on the healer. Being able to at least block-cast heals while DPS gets the tank up could be the difference between success or a wipe. And besides, even without gear inspection being an option, I still get asked about what I'm running. Mainly because of the monster set pieces.

TalonShina

kogadrake wrote: »

TalonShina wrote: »

And that is the beauty of this game and why a gear score or inspections should not be in game because that tank would've likely been insta kicked for saying he could heal as well. That actually sounds similar to something I am trying to achieve with my character although not sure if i'll ever be able to do it at the same time

but the people who would have kicked him for seeing his gear would also have kicked him for saying what he was doing. It worked out in this case, but most of the time it would not be the case and many people dont want to risk the time on a random doing something way out of the box. If it was a friend, they may humor them and let them try, and if it fails it was all good fun, and it may actually work out.

It was like this weekend when a friend tried to heal vDSA as a VR2, I only tanked the run because I knew him and thought it would be fun to laugh at him when he failed, and to my shock he didnt and if we had 2 competent DPS who were willing to make the same chance we would have finished but we didnt have good DPS.

Point is people who will be elitist will be elitist and find some way to score a player, and sadly what is available to use right now will actually be very arbitrary and a poor judge of skill/gear. At least with inspection if they will kick someone they have all the correct information for them to make said decision.

but who is judge it's the correct information? That's the problem with inspection when one doesn't fit the "MOLD" or "THE STANDARDS" without ever actually seeing that person play.

I am sorry but no one has the right to tell be I'm a bad player and kick me from a group because they don't like my skill/attribute/gear setup without actually seeing me perform. And that is all gear inspection does Oh your running skill A you should run B....No thank you Skill A works for me KICK

RizaHawkeye

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

bareheiny wrote: »

Coming from DCUO, I have no major issues with inspection. And despite my initial objections, I'm not concerned about online viewing of characters either.

But it would most definitely get used for a basis for exclusion. Oh....you've equipped ABC? Well, that doesn't fit my expectation and I don't care to find out if it hobbles you or not, so....kick.


But for the love of all that is good in this world, do not - I repeat DO NOT - add a scoreboard to instances.

As a 105 CR Quantum Troll coming from DCUO. After a 8 month break from the game and came back absolutely nobody wanted to play with me because I didn't outgeared the content like themselves. As a result I could not play the game so I quit the game, and at the time SOE missed out on the $60 plus dollars I was spending on the game per a month. That was on the USPC Heroes server. I do not want a repeat of that. We all remember that time where sorcs was excluded from end game content in this game right? Yeah no thank you.

Two comments:

Comment 1: I've never had this experience yet in this game. I have about six pretty close friends in ESO and two of them I met in a PUG. We don't insist upon builds or armor, we just run dungeons. We met during when someone asked for a pickup to run Spindleclutch and we got along; afterwards, we ran several more dungeons that day and we've been friends every since. We do talk builds and armor but no one is required to do anything.

Comment 2: The real question is what kind of game Zeni wants to make and what kind of community they want to encourage. All MMOs are about the community to some degree. I've watched some on my guy friends play CoD (Call of Duty) and I cringe at the way people act on that game. Grow up and take a valium because, sweet pea, this is just a game.

If that's the kind of community Matt Firor want's to encourage at EOS, then I have no doubt they will find a lot of gamers to support it. Truly. Just look at CoD.

Me, I'll just spend my money elsewhere.

Blade_07

If we could examine other players gear then petty little elitists have something do and we cant have that!!! BUT, this could still be implemented but give the player the option to turn that off so people cant see your gear. Was that way in FFXI and worked fine. People that had awesome gear could flaunt it and that makes it easy for other players to see what is good and aim for the same gear.

Mawgusta

I think we should be able to inspect each other.

I would fail right now to get a dungeon group for sure. I don't care. Yet when players are so awesome. I think we should be able to delve them gear, stat allocation, and stat screen. When you see that you're in the same gear and that they're using double mundus stone exploit. That would be nice.

AmmonErebos

Mawgusta wrote: »

I think we should be able to inspect each other.

When you see that you're in the same gear and that they're using double mundus stone exploit. That would be nice.

How is that a exploit? that is a set bonus which you also would have if you had the "same gear"

Casdha

Ratbert wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

you should have stated they waist your time, not everyone's time.

Nope. Everyone's. If the group has a singular focus of getting through content and is being drug down by a party member with deficiencies then they are wasting everyone's time. If it's learning that can be fixed on the fly for the most part. If it is gear they will need to come back at a later date.

Nice argument, but it doesn't waist my time so that negates the use of Everyone.

AzraelKrieg

AmmonErebos wrote: »

Mawgusta wrote: »

I think we should be able to inspect each other.

When you see that you're in the same gear and that they're using double mundus stone exploit. That would be nice.

How is that a exploit? that is a set bonus which you also would have if you had the "same gear"

There was an exploit with that gear. If you had two mundus buffs, died and took off one of the pieces before rezzing you kept both buffs. Reapplying the piece and going to another mundus stone would give a third buff.

Ratbert

Casdha wrote: »

Nice argument, but it doesn't waist my time so that negates the use of Everyone.

Again. If the group has a singular focus, and that focus is being disrupted. I don't know any other languages to say that in sorry. Unless you are saying that person is you. Then yes... I can see your point.

Casdha

AmmonErebos wrote: »

Mawgusta wrote: »

I think we should be able to inspect each other.

When you see that you're in the same gear and that they're using double mundus stone exploit. That would be nice.

How is that a exploit? that is a set bonus which you also would have if you had the "same gear"

I think that bug is suppose to be fixed in this patch. Some folks were getting the double effects by wearing the correct gear then changing gear to a different set and keeping the effect, that is what made it an exploit.

k9mouse

Tessie wrote: »

~CUT~! Some possible reasons for not wanting inspection:

1. Not wanting to share a successful build with the enemy
2. Not wanting to see copies of my unique appearance worn by others
3. Not wanting to be excluded from a group
4. Not wanting to be judged by others

There is no enough reasons NOT to have inspection of others!

Mawgusta

Callous2208 wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Starwhite wrote: »

mrdankles wrote: »

Should have the ability to inspect and kick.

This is the reason I say NO !

Oh come on once you start the run most bad players will get kick right away. Better to know before hand instead of in the run.

... and next time every weak player or with wrong set will be kicked ! I played Tera .... one missing itemlevel point .. kick.
Oh I see you never runned this dungeon .... kick.

I say again NO, for a better MMO world with more team play !

LOL how come I feel like you are one of those players that refuse to try and make a good character. Where you get kicked a lot.

.... your comment encouraged me ! A inspect system will be abused by the most, believe me !

It works in all other games yet you guys act like it wouldn't work in this game. Too funny!

Seems to me like a good number of people moved to ESO because those other games were not "working," for them. The inspections and elitist attitude at end game and throughout was most likely one of the many factors that caused the switch.

No wait, I'm with you man on the entire elitist attitudes issue. Its real and it game killer for so many, but, a huge but, it's not the inspections or anything they think that can hold us back. It's that they have the power to hold us back. The games are broken when you can't get a group because of your gear and inspection. I use to be able to carry people in mmorpgs. My friends skill levels didn't matter. You get people on a mind set that "this must be earned and bad players don't deserve it" that what you end up with. Developers have to start ignoring that aspect of this genre. I use to be really good. My friend could die and I could beat the boss solo. Not that everything should be easy. Yet, I should be able to group with my horrible friends. Not dump in a ditch because they're not skilled. There ahs to be a readjustment to what everything means. I think what should be left behind are the players that want bad players to get nil. It make since on one level, but on another it's just stupid. I like people and I want to group with people I like. Not be forced to group with the best in the universe. I guess that why I am bitter about mmpgs lately. They cater to these guys the think theyre the best. I have a record going back to Ultima Online, achievements, world firsts in so many games, but I game with bad players, my friends, good players my friends. I abhor, hate, detest games that make me upgrade like a desperate women to the next best thing. I want to keep my friends. Not kick them aside because they don't meets the end. I want to carry them if I have to. I want the games to be created in that manner.

Im tired of elitist guilds demanding when I can run circles around them. I don't care enough to be ditching good people. Games should be designed on the average for good people to not be trashed for the sake of skill. Im skilled. I can go anywhere in any game. It means jack sht to me if I have to group with a team of pricks that demand the best. I want my crappy friends. That's all.

Mdl518

Just curious but doesn't this game have more issues then not being able to inspect people? ....maybe we should let zos figure those out first before they worry about meaningless things