[BUG] The last remaining bugs with Critical Multiplier

Xantaria

Let's start with Trap Beast. It's the same issue here as there was with the Shadow Mundus Stone a while ago and as there is with Precise Strikes currently. Shadow is fixed since PTS started. Precise Strikes will get fixed as stated in 2.1.3 Patch Notes. So I think it's time to wipe out the last few remaining critical multiplier bugs:

Base values:
100 base dmg
150 dmg on a crit

Trap Beast:
156 dmg with Trap Beast Buff active which means the formula again only takes the extra damage you gain on a critical strike (50) and takes 12% from that and adds it on top instead of taking the 12% from the base damage (100) which would result in a 162 dmg crit. So basically Trap Beast and it's Morphs only grant 6% Critical DMG instead of the 12% stated in the tooltip.

I did not test Agressive Warhorn yet, but it's highly likely that we're going to see the same issue there.

To test Warhorn correctly keep in mind you need somebody to provide you with an unmorphed or defensive Warhorn Buff, test your dmg (normal / crit), get Agressive Warhorn up and test your damage again. Of course naked, No mundus, no other buffs. Or test dmg within the first 10 seconds of warhorn and compare with the damage during the remaining 20 seconds. If somebody could do that and post some Data (or make a new thread) we could actually get Critical Damage calculations fixed once and for all.

Working as intended:

- Hemorrhage Nightblade Passive (Specifically states that it only increases the bonus damage: 'Increases bonus Critical Strike damage by 10%.')
- Shadow Mundus Stone (12% Critical Multiplier working)
- Interaction of Divines Traits with Shadow Mundus Stone

Unknown:

- Agressive Warhorn
- Elfborn Championsystem (Magicka equivalent to Precise Strikes)

Bugged:

- Precise Strikes Championsystem (Zenimax knows and is working on deploying a fix)
- Trap Beast

Alcast

Xantaria wrote: »

It's the same issue here as there was with the Shadow Mundus Stone a while ago and as there was with Precise Strikes. Shadow is fixed since PTS started. Precise Strikes got fixed with 2.1.3 according to the Patch Notes. So I think it's time to wipe out the last few remaining critical dmg bugs:

Base values:
100 base dmg
150 dmg on a crit

Trap Beast:
156 dmg with Trap Beast Buff active which means the formula again only takes the extra damage you gain on a critical strike (50) and takes 12% from that and adds it on top instead of taking the 12% from the base damage (100) which would result in a 162 dmg crit. So basically Trap Beast and it's Morphs only grant 6% Critical DMG instead of the 12% stated in the tooltip.

I also did some tests with it and got to the same results. In addition to that the Rearming Trap seems to activate itsself right after the cast instead of the 3s arming time for some reason. I did not test the other morph but very likely that the same bug occurs there.

Dracane

Alcast wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

It's the same issue here as there was with the Shadow Mundus Stone a while ago and as there was with Precise Strikes. Shadow is fixed since PTS started. Precise Strikes got fixed with 2.1.3 according to the Patch Notes. So I think it's time to wipe out the last few remaining critical dmg bugs:

Base values:
100 base dmg
150 dmg on a crit

Trap Beast:
156 dmg with Trap Beast Buff active which means the formula again only takes the extra damage you gain on a critical strike (50) and takes 12% from that and adds it on top instead of taking the 12% from the base damage (100) which would result in a 162 dmg crit. So basically Trap Beast and it's Morphs only grant 6% Critical DMG instead of the 12% stated in the tooltip.

I also did some tests with it and got to the same results. In addition to that the Rearming Trap seems to activate itsself right after the cast instead of the 3s arming time for some reason. I did not test the other morph but very likely that the same bug occurs there.

Rearming trap is the one resets itself, right ? It worked as intended in my tests and took a few seconds to aim.
Not sure about the ranged morph.

Gilliamtherogue

Xantaria wrote: »

Precise Strikes got fixed with 2.1.3 according to the Patch Notes.

Except according to the patch notes;
"KNOWN ISSUES
Champion System
The Precise Strikes passive is not currently increasing critical damage as much as intended."

Xantaria

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

Precise Strikes got fixed with 2.1.3 according to the Patch Notes.

Except according to the patch notes;
"KNOWN ISSUES
Champion System
The Precise Strikes passive is not currently increasing critical damage as much as intended."

Oh yeah right I misread that one :') thanks

Gilliamtherogue

Dracane wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

I also did some tests with it and got to the same results. In addition to that the Rearming Trap seems to activate itsself right after the cast instead of the 3s arming time for some reason. I did not test the other morph but very likely that the same bug occurs there.

Rearming trap is the one resets itself, right ? It worked as intended in my tests and took a few seconds to aim.
Not sure about the ranged morph.[/quote]

Rearming trap is the one that resets itself. On PTS it resets itself 1.5 seconds after an enemy triggers it. The buff of 12% crit hit damage lasts for 6 seconds alongside the damage of the initial burn it does, but since it rearms itself 1.5s after the enemy takes the damage, it means this morph only offers 7.5 seconds of crit hit damage instead of 12 seconds like it would seemingly intend. The 2nd proc of the trap should only be able to proc after the first application fades. Without that, this morph's strength is extremely weakened.

I'll go on PTS and see if I can find the CHD mulitplier it's adding to see if it lines up with what OP is stating.

Gilliamtherogue

Well trap beast got fixed in terms of proccing, it no longer procs immediately after resetting, it will always wait till the mob is unaffected by the original proc, allowing a total of 12 seconds to be achieved on Rearming trap. Testing CHD now!

Gilliamtherogue

So after testing PTS for a bit here's what I found.

Perameters
Testing on v14 mobs in Cyrodiil. Undead. Tested on 2h skeletons, and tank skeletons (each have unique armor values). No points into increased crit hit damage from CP. Only augmenter is the NB passive which is 5% bonus. Base CHD is 50% amplification, mine was 55% No stat changes happened mid swap, made sure to not proc special damage bonuses like exploiter, etc. I tested on 10 of each mob and every hit was the same damage.

Values
Testing on 2h skeleton (Fallen Ravager)
Ability; Concealed Weapon.
Non crit: 5766
Crit: 8937
Crit with Minor Force: 9283

Testing on tank skele (Fallen Champion)
Ability; Concealed Weapon.
Non crit: 6700
Crit: 10385
Crit with Minor Force: 10787

Calculations
2h Skele; 1.54995 CHD, or 1.55 base 1.60995 or 1.61 with Minor Force

Tank Skele; 1.55 (perfect value) base. 1.61 (perfect value) with Minor Force

That's an increase of 6% raw crit hit damage, but a 10.909 repeating increase of my previous crit multiplier. Major and Minor force need to be reworded to say they increase the effectiveness of your Critical Hit Damage MODIFIERS, rather than damage. As we can clearly see, they do not increase crit hit damage by the listed %'s, but rather increase our previous modifiers by them. We can also see that I am not getting a full 12% increase of my modifier either, which I assume is being weakened by armor and spell resistance, although the calculations for both were the same, despite both mobs having varying armor/spell res.

Gilliamtherogue

Tested Major Force as well with Aggro Warhorn! Here are the results. Same parameters as before, except I only tested on the Fallen Champions, since I killed all the Ravagers :P plus the values ended up being the same % wise before, so I skipped it. The only difference from this test and the previous is that I was under the effect of Aggressive Warhorn. No trap beast in this test, although I can stack both later if desired, although will be tricky.

Values
Non crit: 7024
Crit: 10887
Crit with Major Force: 11940

Calculations

.54997 or .55 base .69989 or .7 with Major Force. That's a 15% raw critical damage increase, but a 27.2727% (repeating) critical damage MODIFIER increase.

With these values I think it's safe to say that Major and Minor Force are indeed supposed to be increasing Crit Hit Damage, instead of the modifiers. We've seen that each increase has been half of the listed amount, 6% on minor and 15% on major, but we've also seen a close 10.909% modifier on minor and a 27.2727% modifier on major. So either something is causing these values to be mitigated of their original source, or they're cut in half. Can we get a word on this from @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert ? Are the Major and Minor force buffs supposed to increase raw critical damage, or simply the modifier we have? If so, why aren't either of them being increased by the stated values?

Xantaria

they are cut in half because it always takes the base critical damage and calculates with that.

It always takes 50% of your base dmg. Multiplies that with the crit dmg multiplier in the tooltip (for beartrap: 1,12). Subtracts the 50% of your base dmg value from that and adds the result on your critical hit (150% of your base dmg + the result). It does that for each crit multiplier that works that way.

Shadow was working the same way but by now it got fixed and takes your full base dmg for start of the calculation.

That's atleast how I see it.

Gilliamtherogue

Xantaria wrote: »

they are cut in half because it always takes the base critical damage and calculates with that.

It always takes 50% of your base dmg. Multiplies that with the crit dmg multiplier in the tooltip (for beartrap: 1,12). Subtracts the 50% of your base dmg value from that and adds the result on your critical hit (150% of your base dmg + the result). It does that for each crit multiplier that works that way.

Shadow was working the same way but by now it got fixed and takes your full base dmg for start of the calculation.

That's atleast how I see it.

Well what you described is two different stats. One is critical damage, meaning damage you deal with crits. The other one is critical damage modifier, which only increases the base bonus damage a crit does. One is a flat %, while the other is a % of a %. Clearly in terms of DPS, we would prefer Critical Hit Damage instead of Critical Hit Damage Modifier. Usually you can tell because a tooltip will state something like "Increases the bonus of your critical hits" vs "Increases your critical hit damage" By saying bonus they mean its a modifier, so it'd be weaker. But Major and Minor force simply state they increase critical damage.

Xantaria

I know. I'm just saying when you look at your 10,9 something modifier ... that is actually exactly 12% ... of the BASE 50% ... whatever you have on top of that, when it calculates it always goes from the base and adds it. for each single one of that kind of modifier.

Xantaria

@ZOS_GinaBruno is this being looked at?

Zlater

There are a number of 'Buffs' like this one. The defensive posture buff is one such buff. I've only tested this on Live, there however I noted that it is only actually a 4% boost to block and with 32500 armor, its then actually only a 2% boost to block not the 8% that everybody believes. I for one would like some clarification in the tooltip on exactly how each buff is calculated, with it's "when blocking, add an extra 8% to block amount." It gets tricky when defining the effect of a % buff with another % buff. If anything I think it'd be great if they did what they did with crit and turn the % into flat numbers, and then apply the % modifiers.

Sorry I couldn't get some info of how it is on the PTS, still downloading the 1.7.3 update and couldn't be bothered looking back into the patch notes. xD