ITT: We theorycraft why ZOS has been silent on Stam Sorcs

Huggalump

I first came to the PTS out of a desire to see the game improved by making Stam Sorcs a viable option instead of being a Weapon-Skill Line class that has virtually nothing to do with being a sorc. However, that desire to see change just recently shifted into curiosity. It's really strange for there to be this much discussion about an aspect of the game without the developers commenting, especially when the games developers seem to be so active in other discussions.

First, some facts:

- We know the developers are aware of stamina sorc problems because they mentioned it in ESO live and there have been very minor tweaks in the PTS patches

- We know that the devs are active in the forums. Most threads on the PTS which aren't about stam sorcs and get multiple pages usually receive dev attention. However, we know the devs lurk and still see those multi-thread stam posts even if they don't post in them. So they're aware of the stam sorc problems and they're aware of the plethora of fantastic solutions that have already been theorycrafted out for them.

- We know there has been a LOT of stam sorc discussion. Here are the multi-page stam sorc threads just within the past month. None of which received Dev attention

~~~ http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/207293/sorcerer-change-suggestions-and-reasoning
~~~ http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/200904/why-does-stamina-sorc-still-not-have-a-stamina-attack
~~~ http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/201417/stamina-sorcerers-with-2-1
~~~ http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/206056/feedback-on-sorcerer-ability-changes-and-how-to-make-stamina-sorcerers-viable
~~~ http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209120/stamina-sorcerers-the-next-steps-for-zos/p1
~~~ http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/206800/2-1-1-stamina-sorcerers
~~~ http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208789/20-percent-more-stam-recovery-for-sorcs-wasnt-the-best-idea-heres-a-suggestion

At this point, it's become comical that there hasn't been an official comment on it, as that would be the swiftest, easiest way to calm people's minds and reassure customers that something is happening. Or, going the other way and letting players know that this Stam Sorc isn't intended to be a supported playstyle.

- Finally, and most tellingly, we know they have plans but those plans are secret. In ESO live, Eric mentioned some of the passive tweaks, but also teased at "something in the works," but didn't give any more details on it.


Now, let's get to theory crafting. Personally, I have three theories.

1) They're working on an instant attack stamina morph so Stam Sorcs don't feel like their class is irrevelant, but it's proved difficult to balance. If they directly said "yeah, we're gonna do this," people would celebrate and feel assured that they're not being ignored. However, if it then turned out to be imbalanced, turning back on the promise would be significantly worse than never having responded at all, from a PR perspective.

2) ZOS receives funding from a major psychopharmacological company in order for said company to perform case studies on the psychology of players. Stamina sorcs are the case study. I'm not sure what's being tested, but my best guess would be how long human determination can hold out against utter hopelessness.

3) The big wig publishers have a personal vendetta against the Spellsword archetype and have hitmen standing by to take out anyone who speaks an assuring word to the stam sorc community. Eric's heart bleeds for us, but the situation is out of his hands. He nearly slipped over the line when he said "something is in the works." Speaking of which, has anyone seen Eric lately? Hm....



The truth is out there, outlanders. What's your take?

EnOeZ

You have it wrong : the vendetta is against the Stamina Heavy Amor Melee DK in PVP!

The "psychopharmacological company" behind PVP balance though may be real :

1. Population is split between NB and Sorcs (Magicka only ? not sure)
2. Templar (except Jesus Beam, but now it is slightly fixed) and DK

We may indeed be in a Case Study, did not think about it

Shinra

Didn't read most of the wall of text, but...

I think they keep quiet because the couldn't please us enough. If they would want to please us, they would need to add enough to make us totally OP.

Because even know, while we are getting weapon power, stam regeneration and a new stamina morph, all on the forum will say "NOT ENOUGH! NOT ENOUGH! NOT ENOUGH!" like a chor.

So here is why I think stam sorc is just fine (And yes, I have one):

1. Self heal+Protection
This is, in fact, better than most other classes. Rally+Surge and Vigor if things get difficult. That stuff adds up fast. And well, the new stamina morph of our armor gives a bunch of resistance as well.

2. Ressource Management.
Ritual gives back a bunch of stamina, and we sorcs get a stamregen bonus. We aren't quite even with nightblades, but can keep up with dragonknights and templars.

3. Singletarget Damage
We have overload, one of the greatest singletarget ultis in the game. Additionally, we get a new weapon power bonus, a new stamina dot and well, we already have extrastam from a toggle skill.

4. AoE Damage
In addition to self heal and ressource management, with our new dot, we get more damage rolling than any steelspamming sorc, dk or templar. Just like other stamclasses, we need to get ourselfes some caltrops, of course.



So I don't really understand what more we stamsorcs could be asking for, without making us stronger than any other stamina class.

Huggalump

Shinra wrote: »

Didn't read most of the wall of text, but...

I think they keep quiet because the couldn't please us enough. If they would want to please us, they would need to add enough to make us totally OP.

Because even know, while we are getting weapon power, stam regeneration and a new stamina morph, all on the forum will say "NOT ENOUGH! NOT ENOUGH! NOT ENOUGH!" like a chor.

So here is why I think stam sorc is just fine (And yes, I have one):

1. Self heal+Protection
This is, in fact, better than most other classes. Rally+Surge and Vigor if things get difficult. That stuff adds up fast. And well, the new stamina morph of our armor gives a bunch of resistance as well.

2. Ressource Management.
Ritual gives back a bunch of stamina, and we sorcs get a stamregen bonus. We aren't quite even with nightblades, but can keep up with dragonknights and templars.

3. Singletarget Damage
We have overload, one of the greatest singletarget ultis in the game. Additionally, we get a new weapon power bonus, a new stamina dot and well, we already have extrastam from a toggle skill.

4. AoE Damage
In addition to self heal and ressource management, with our new dot, we get more damage rolling than any steelspamming sorc, dk or templar. Just like other stamclasses, we need to get ourselfes some caltrops, of course.



So I don't really understand what more we stamsorcs could be asking for, without making us stronger than any other stamina class.

Shinra

Huggalump wrote: »

And with that single sentence at the beginning, I have stopped you from writing anything significant against my arguements, and you have instead stepped back to pointing out that I am a ***

With you becoming personal instead of staying objective, serious discussion with you has become almost impossible and pretty unnecessary, so I, just as any other serious player, can now ignore this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Huggalump

Shinra wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

And with that single sentence at the beginning, I have stopped you from writing anything significant against my arguements, and you have instead stepped back to pointing out that I am a ***

With you becoming personal instead of staying objective, serious discussion with you has become almost impossible and pretty unnecessary, so I, just as any other serious player, can now ignore this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Serious discussion? You... didn't read my post....

Shinra

Huggalump wrote: »

Serious discussion? You... didn't read my post....

Correct. I said that already.

Sorry that I assumed that somebody making a thread and claims wants to discuss.

Huggalump

Shinra wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Serious discussion? You... didn't read my post....

Correct. I said that already.

Sorry that I assumed that somebody making a thread and claims wants to discuss.

So if I respond to your post, which isn't at all about the point of my thread, will you read my response? I mean, it's hard to have discussion when one party doesn't read the other's posts.

What if my response gets too long? Can I get a word limit on what you will and won't read in order that we may facilitate this discussion which is clearly going in a productive direction?

Shinra

Huggalump wrote: »

Shinra wrote: »

Huggalump wrote: »

Serious discussion? You... didn't read my post....

Correct. I said that already.

Sorry that I assumed that somebody making a thread and claims wants to discuss.

So if I respond to your post, which isn't at all about the point of my thread, will you read my response? I mean, it's hard to have discussion when one party doesn't read the other's posts.

What if my response gets too long? Can I get a word limit on what you will and won't read in order that we may facilitate this discussion which is clearly going in a productive direction?

You response right now had 77 words and looks about the right length for me to be able to read it. So, I would say, a word limit of 100 would be fine.

ps. I read your whole post know, looks like I really took it the wrong way
That's what you get for flying over stuff...

Fecius

And this guy is pretty happy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PnyuqXliOQ

But my personal opinion is that Sorcerer (magician, wizard, witch, or mage) is someone who uses or practices magic derived from supernatural or occult sources. Sorcerers are common figures in works of fantasy, such as fantasy literature and role-playing games, and enjoy a rich history in mythology, legends, fiction, and folklore.

So you basicaly a mage, you can get a bow and use it, but you native power is magic.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Theory #3 is close but there is more to it.


The order to kill off the spellswords came in the last days of patch 1.5. "Execute Order 67!" the shadowy puppetmasters said and spellswords fell by the thousands. This time, they didn't have to assassinate anyone, just remove softcaps. Once softcaps were removed, hybrid builds become very impractical if not impossible. Of all classes, this change hit sorcerers the hardest. It's important to note that most "Stamina Sorcerers" at the time were actually hybrid builds (Because sorcerers lack any class based stamina DPS) and those who tried to maintain a hybrid build after 1.6 died quickly to weapon damage stacking NBs/DKs (who actually had class based stamina DPS skills in their toolbars) and to other spell damage stacking sorcerers.

The publishers almost got what they wanted. Stamina sorcerer populations plummeted in PvP after 1.6. The great and mighty Sabre Ali gave up his stam sorc and rolled DK/NB. This pleased the publishers greatly. Skaffa did the same, also rolled DK. The Swagonborn saw the writing on the wall, and, with hot tears of swag streaming down his chiseled face, he cast his Argonian great-sword in the dust, and regrettably donned the shameful dress of the magicka sorc, and slotted the same 12 skills as every other magicka sorcerer. These were dark times. But you do what you have to do to survive.

But there was one who resisted. One flaw in their plan. Using an almost pure stamina build devoid of any sorcerer skills other than two UTILITY spells, the Lord FENGRUSH rose up in defiance. The word UTILITY is capitalized because it is important later in the story. The word FENGRUSH is also capitalized because I am still not sure why.

As we all know, the evil empire hates resistance, especially small and dedicated resistance. When FENGRUSH caused further insult by becoming emperor with this build, something had to change.

You see shadowy puppet masters don't mind stamina builds, they just hate sorcerer stamina builds. They couldn't stop FENGRUSH directly. They had to devise a way to remove those that two pesky sorcerer skills remaining on his skillbar. If they could make both those skills so terrible that FENGRUSH would unslot them, then he would be playing a PURE stamina build, technically not a stamina sorcerer at all. A technicality granted, but it was enough.

In order to thwart FENGRUSH, the publishers pressured Eric to change a vital Sorcerer UTILITY spell (and magicka dump) into an awkward stam based DOT to ensure that FENGRUSH would never slot the skill again in the new patch.

But there was one skill remaining. Streak. We all know what happened to streak. Many praised this change but they didn't see the true reason, while regen and magicka stacking sorcerers could still use streak even with the 50% stacking penalty, this would make the skill way too expensive for stamina sorcerers without some sort of cooldown reset if streak causes damage or a melee attack is made.

This is all of the story I know so far. Many questions have yet to be answered.

• Will the evil publishers get their way and deter @FENGRUSH from using any sorcerer skills the new patch?
• Will Stamina sorcerers ever get a spammable melee DPS skill like every other class?
• Will the development team ever understand the best stamina builds use stamina for DPS and magicka for UTILITY. (I have a full post explaining it HERE - Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.)

We will find out.

TL;DR: Lightning form is a Utility and Magicka dump NOT a DPS skill!!!!. Click on the link above to see what the Evil Empire fears the most.

Huggalump

EnOeZ wrote: »

You have it wrong : the vendetta is against the Stamina Heavy Amor Melee DK in PVP!

The "psychopharmacological company" behind PVP balance though may be real :

1. Population is split between NB and Sorcs (Magicka only ? not sure)
2. Templar (except Jesus Beam, but now it is slightly fixed) and DK

We may indeed be in a Case Study, did not think about it

Interesting. This might be bigger than I ever imagined! Are we already in too deep?

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Theory #3 is close but there is more to it.


The order to kill off the spellswords came in the last days of patch 1.5. "Execute Order 67!" the shadowy puppetmasters said and spellswords fell by the thousands. This time, they didn't have to assassinate anyone, just remove softcaps. Once softcaps were removed, hybrid builds become very impractical if not impossible. Of all classes, this change hit sorcerers the hardest. It's important to note that most "Stamina Sorcerers" at the time were actually hybrid builds (Because sorcerers lack any class based stamina DPS) and those who tried to maintain a hybrid build after 1.6 died quickly to weapon damage stacking NBs/DKs (who actually had class based stamina DPS skills in their toolbars) and to other spell damage stacking sorcerers.

The publishers almost got what they wanted. Stamina sorcerer populations plummeted in PvP after 1.6. The great and mighty Sabre Ali gave up his stam sorc and rolled DK/NB. This pleased the publishers greatly. Skaffa did the same, also rolled DK. The Swagonborn saw the writing on the wall, and with hot tears full of swag streaming down his chiseled face, he cast his Argonian greatsword in the dust, and regrettably donned the shameful dress of the magicka sorc, and slotted the same 12 skills as every other magicka sorcerer. These were dark times. But you do what you have to do to survive.

But there was one who resisted. One flaw in their plan. Using an almost pure stamina build devoid of any sorcerer skills other than two UTILITY spells, the Lord FENGRUSH rose up in defiance. The word UTILITY is highlighted because it is important later in the story. The word FENGRUSH is also highlighted because I am still not sure why.

As we all know, the evil empire hates resistance, especially small and dedicated resistance. When FENGRUSH caused further insult by becoming emperor with this build, something had to change.

You see shadowy puppet masters don't mind stamina builds, they just hate sorcerer stamina builds. They couldn't stop FENGRUSH directly. They had to devise a way to remove those that two pesky sorserer skills remaining on his skillbar. If they could make both those skills so terrible that FENGRUSH would unslot them, then he would be playing a PURE stamina build, technically not a stamina sorcerer at all. A technicality granted, but it was enough.

In order to thwart FENGRUSH, the publishers pressured Eric to change a vital Sorcerer UTILITY spell (and magicka dump) into an awkward stam based DOT to ensure that FENGRUSH would never slot the skill again in the new patch.

But there was one skill remaining. Streak. We all know what happened to streak. Many praised this change but they didn't see the true reason, while regen and magicka stacking sorcerers could still use streak even with the 50% stacking penalty, this would make the skill way too expensive for stamina sorcerers without some sort of cooldown reset if streak causes damage or a melee attack is made.

This is all of the story I know so far. Many questions have yet to be answered.

• Will the evil publishers get their way and deter @FENGRUSH from using any sorcerer skills the new patch?
• Will Stamina sorcerers ever get a spammable melee DPS skill like every other class?
• Will the development team ever understand the best stamina builds use stamina for DPS and magicka for UTILITY. (I have a full post explaining it HERE - Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.)

We will find out.

TL;DR: Lightning form is a Utility and Magicka dump NOT a DPS skill!!!!. Click on the link above to see what the Evil Empire fears the most.

omg I hope you're posting this from a safe place on an encrypted line.

I wonder what the headline will be once this delicious nut of conspiracy cracks open.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Huggalump wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

You have it wrong : the vendetta is against the Stamina Heavy Amor Melee DK in PVP!

The "psychopharmacological company" behind PVP balance though may be real :

1. Population is split between NB and Sorcs (Magicka only ? not sure)
2. Templar (except Jesus Beam, but now it is slightly fixed) and DK

We may indeed be in a Case Study, did not think about it

Interesting. This might be bigger than I ever imagined! Are we already in too deep?

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Theory #3 is close but there is more to it.


The order to kill off the spellswords came in the last days of patch 1.5. "Execute Order 67!" the shadowy puppetmasters said and spellswords fell by the thousands. This time, they didn't have to assassinate anyone, just remove softcaps. Once softcaps were removed, hybrid builds become very impractical if not impossible. Of all classes, this change hit sorcerers the hardest. It's important to note that most "Stamina Sorcerers" at the time were actually hybrid builds (Because sorcerers lack any class based stamina DPS) and those who tried to maintain a hybrid build after 1.6 died quickly to weapon damage stacking NBs/DKs (who actually had class based stamina DPS skills in their toolbars) and to other spell damage stacking sorcerers.

The publishers almost got what they wanted. Stamina sorcerer populations plummeted in PvP after 1.6. The great and mighty Sabre Ali gave up his stam sorc and rolled DK/NB. This pleased the publishers greatly. Skaffa did the same, also rolled DK. The Swagonborn saw the writing on the wall, and with hot tears full of swag streaming down his chiseled face, he cast his Argonian greatsword in the dust, and regrettably donned the shameful dress of the magicka sorc, and slotted the same 12 skills as every other magicka sorcerer. These were dark times. But you do what you have to do to survive.

But there was one who resisted. One flaw in their plan. Using an almost pure stamina build devoid of any sorcerer skills other than two UTILITY spells, the Lord FENGRUSH rose up in defiance. The word UTILITY is highlighted because it is important later in the story. The word FENGRUSH is also highlighted because I am still not sure why.

As we all know, the evil empire hates resistance, especially small and dedicated resistance. When FENGRUSH caused further insult by becoming emperor with this build, something had to change.

You see shadowy puppet masters don't mind stamina builds, they just hate sorcerer stamina builds. They couldn't stop FENGRUSH directly. They had to devise a way to remove those that two pesky sorserer skills remaining on his skillbar. If they could make both those skills so terrible that FENGRUSH would unslot them, then he would be playing a PURE stamina build, technically not a stamina sorcerer at all. A technicality granted, but it was enough.

In order to thwart FENGRUSH, the publishers pressured Eric to change a vital Sorcerer UTILITY spell (and magicka dump) into an awkward stam based DOT to ensure that FENGRUSH would never slot the skill again in the new patch.

But there was one skill remaining. Streak. We all know what happened to streak. Many praised this change but they didn't see the true reason, while regen and magicka stacking sorcerers could still use streak even with the 50% stacking penalty, this would make the skill way too expensive for stamina sorcerers without some sort of cooldown reset if streak causes damage or a melee attack is made.

This is all of the story I know so far. Many questions have yet to be answered.

• Will the evil publishers get their way and deter @FENGRUSH from using any sorcerer skills the new patch?
• Will Stamina sorcerers ever get a spammable melee DPS skill like every other class?
• Will the development team ever understand the best stamina builds use stamina for DPS and magicka for UTILITY. (I have a full post explaining it HERE - Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.)

We will find out.

TL;DR: Lightning form is a Utility and Magicka dump NOT a DPS skill!!!!. Click on the link above to see what the Evil Empire fears the most.

omg I hope you're posting this from a safe place on an encrypted line.

I wonder what the headline will be once this delicious nut of conspiracy cracks open.

I think they are sending the nightblades after me now. I can hear the surprise attack spam cutting through my first line of defense. I am going to bolt away while I still specced into magicka and regen. See you on the flipside.

GreyRanger

Mostly I wish the Devs would simply weigh in and share where they are going with Stam Sorcs.

Huggalump

GreyRanger wrote: »

Mostly I wish the Devs would simply weigh in and share where they are going with Stam Sorcs.

me too, but I don't think we understand the magnitude of the forces working against them

Rayste

I will be very forward regarding this subject as some of my guildies were discussing it in mumble the other night:

Sorcerer has always been the mage/magicka archetype.. someone got it in their head that they wanted to play a stamina? ( if that is even such a thing hah, think about it sometimes) version of said archetype because ESO is PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT..... and here we sit.

They are in the early stages of making this last 'magicka only' archetype work with stamina.

Man o man this will be interesting. We all know Wrobel probably doesn't play the game competitively and I have heard rumors that he mains a night blade. Good luck!

Erock25

The argument that sorcs are magicka only is atrocious. No one goes into magicka night blade topics and says that they shouldn't exist either.

The bottom line for why stam sorcs are still upset is that Eric Wrobel refuses to listen to feedback. I've literally been waiting for over 6 months for stam sorc update that was promised to us from Gina and I'm shocked at how little they listened to our feedback. Wrobel has no idea how stam sorcs work. He took the most used sorc skill in a stam sorcs repertoire and decided to add a stamina morph to it. It's totally ridiculous and shows that instead of reading feedback he just picked a skill out of a hat. The buffs to daedric protection passive are also illogical because it forces stamsorcs to use armaments to access that passive.

I knew we were in for disappointment when dark deal was the first thing they discussed buffing, which actually wasn't a buff at all. We provided months of feedback and ZOS did not listen and because of that, they have officially lost me as a customer.

timidobserver

I have no sympathy for you. They literally make active Templar threads stop going to the first page when there is a new post in order to kill them. No other class has gotten that kind of treatment.

Go make a post in this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2146915/#Comment_2146915

It will stay on page 37.

AfkNinja

I just posted in it and it's still on page 30. Thanks ZOS! Luv u guys.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

timidobserver wrote: »

I have no sympathy for you. They literally make active Templar threads stop going to the first page when there is a new post in order to kill them. No other class has gotten that kind of treatment.

Go make a post in this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2146915/#Comment_2146915

It will stay on page 37.

I made a lot of contributions to that thread in the early days. I support my templar brothers for also getting the ignore treatment for so long.

I wish we didn't all see this as a Zero Sum Game for developer attention. That somehow if time is spent on stamina sorc, then templar issues such as all the hidden cooldowns wont get fixed.

I would make the argument that stamina sorcerer is in the worst place of all stamina builds but you could also argue that both magicka and stamina templar are in a pretty bad place. I'm not sure about the new patch, havent tested a templar or played my v14 templar in a while.

That being said, I intend to do in this thread what I also did in the templar thread: Keep it on topic. Every class needs TLC, this thread is for stam sorcs.

As I said in the templar thread, the community needs to come up with a list of things they want changed, find common ground, and come up with a detailed proposal down to the skills and passives.

Rayste

Erock25 wrote: »

The argument that sorcs are magicka only is atrocious. No one goes into magicka night blade topics and says that they shouldn't exist either.

The bottom line for why stam sorcs are still upset is that Eric Wrobel refuses to listen to feedback. I've literally been waiting for over 6 months for stam sorc update that was promised to us from Gina and I'm shocked at how little they listened to our feedback. Wrobel has no idea how stam sorcs work. He took the most used sorc skill in a stam sorcs repertoire and decided to add a stamina morph to it. It's totally ridiculous and shows that instead of reading feedback he just picked a skill out of a hat. The buffs to daedric protection passive are also illogical because it forces stamsorcs to use armaments to access that passive.

I knew we were in for disappointment when dark deal was the first thing they discussed buffing, which actually wasn't a buff at all. We provided months of feedback and ZOS did not listen and because of that, they have officially lost me as a customer.

This is a good post.

I /agree with everything but the atrocious comment. It was an opinion only.

Cathexis

I think that they thematically don't have a clue about what to do with stamina sorc specs, and its easy to promise the moon and do nothing, because there is no accountability.

Miwerton

Well that and other stamina specs to, but sorc particulary. As most ultimates still scales of spell penetration and not armor penetration, even if stamina and weapon damage is highest.

Draehl

The guy in charge of combat balance seems rather aloof and silly TBH, if only based on the interviews/streams we've seen. Maybe he's just nervous on camera, but I'd rather see a hard nosed numbers guy in charge of this stuff. Nothing against Wrobel personally.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Draehl wrote: »

The guy in charge of combat balance seems rather aloof and silly TBH, if only based on the interviews/streams we've seen. Maybe he's just nervous on camera, but I'd rather see a hard nosed numbers guy in charge of this stuff. Nothing against Wrobel personally.

You mean you would like someone that actually takes stats of how classes match up with other classes, and has a complete balance paradigm complete with how they want each class to look and feel?

Read some blizzard patch notes on starcraft race balance and weep for what could have been.

MrGrimey

Stamina sorc has the best passives out of any stamina class in 2.1.. What are you people complaining about?

Draehl

MrGrimey wrote: »

Stamina sorc has the best passives out of any stamina class in 2.1.. What are you people complaining about?

The class lacks identity for stam builds and as you said, is little but a collection of passives.

Miwerton

The Main problem is that Stam sorcs, dont have any real single target class skills. In aoe sure they can truly excell with critical surge, steel tornado , thundering pressence and bound armaments. But against a single target there is no real single target class damage.

Huggalump

oh, maybe a while ago when one of the programmers was being a good developer and trying to address the stam sorc community concerns, he went to type "stam sorc" into a search box to find all the stam sorc threads but he made a human error due to being tired from working so many long hours on stam sorc problems, so instead of searching for all stam sorc threads he instead made the ZOS network ignore all stam sorc threads.

That might be it! ZOS thinks the community is happy because they can't see the threads! How do we work around this? Maybe when we want to talk about stam sorcs, we should say "Stam Nightblades" but we'll all know it's really stam sorcs?? That will get attention

Cathexis

MrGrimey wrote: »

Stamina sorc has the best passives out of any stamina class in 2.1.. What are you people complaining about?

A complete and total lack of sustained survivability, class based damage ability, low damage, high magicka costs on skills that synergize and potion dependence.

I would gladly trade my so called best passives for real class balance.

That said, all of the problems could be resolved by removing resource stat based skill scaling.

Alcast

There is and there never will be class balance in ESO. That being said, stam sorc is not in a bad place in the next update, PvP wise ofc.

They will not do any other changes, first they will check how things are going with the new changes, and if a lot of QQ still incoming then they might change stuff again for the next update.