Another Nerf for blocking: Black Rose Set nerfed
hrothbern
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the new Black Rose Set:
Black Rose: This item set has been redesigned. The previous ability (returning stamina on block) has been replaced with an increase to the resources returned by the Constitution passive ability by 50%, and also grants bonus Weapon Damage and Spell Damage.
In the old set you got back approx 160 Stamina per block.
so for example between 4 mobs, you got back 640 Stamina
Because mobs attack approx every 2 seconds, this is 320 Stamina per second
In the new Set you get 50% more back from Constitution, 50% more from roughly 12 Stamina per set item, per second, or 6 Stamina per item per second.
So... If you have 5 Heavy Armor, you get back 30 Stamina.
Even if you make the calculation with only 1 add...
the difference is 80/second of the old set against 30/second in the new set.
I am flabbergasted
Black Rose: This item set has been redesigned. The previous ability (returning stamina on block) has been replaced with an increase to the resources returned by the Constitution passive ability by 50%, and also grants bonus Weapon Damage and Spell Damage.
In the old set you got back approx 160 Stamina per block.
so for example between 4 mobs, you got back 640 Stamina
Because mobs attack approx every 2 seconds, this is 320 Stamina per second
In the new Set you get 50% more back from Constitution, 50% more from roughly 12 Stamina per set item, per second, or 6 Stamina per item per second.
So... If you have 5 Heavy Armor, you get back 30 Stamina.
Even if you make the calculation with only 1 add...
the difference is 80/second of the old set against 30/second in the new set.
I am flabbergasted
"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
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ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭People were upset that Black Rose embodied a contradiction in design (take away stamina regen while blocking for all, but still let it happen in essence through pay-gated DLC content), so they reconfigured it to buff a similar Heavy Armor passive and damage. Could the number be higher? Sure. But BR set wasn't necessary to tank anyways in 2.1. This changes the set's role in builds in a good way that is more consistent with the change to stamina regen.Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on August 26, 2015 5:42PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden3 -
Tabre✭✭✭I can't understand why they would make these changes. We're 5 days out from this patch going live and here we are majorly redesigning sets. Why?"You sleep rather soundly for a murderer. That's good. You'll need a clear conscience for what I'm about to propose."3 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »People were upset that Black Rose embodied a contradiction in design (take away stamina regen while blocking for all, but still let it happen in essence through pay-gated DLC content), so they reconfigured it to buff a similar Heavy Armor passive and damage. Could the number be higher? Sure. But BR set wasn't necessary to tank anyways in 2.1. This changes the set's role in builds in a good way that is more consistent with the change to stamina regen.
I quote again: But BR set wasn't necessary to tank anyways in 2.1 Right... So tanking is also possible without this set... hm... it is 160 Stamina per block... that is a lot... that is close to the effect of 3 jewelry enchants (after the effect of the percentual cost reductions)
I get more the impression that PTS showed that semi-permablock tanking was still possible and action has been taken.
And
BTW
IF also after this, tanking stays.... will the next nerf be the removal of the jewelry enchant ???Edited by hrothbern on August 26, 2015 5:49PM"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU2 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭I can't understand why they would make these changes. We're 5 days out from this patch going live and here we are majorly redesigning sets. Why?
And there will likely be more changes on actual launch day. Best bet is to stockpile set pieces, mats, etc for a couple weeks while all the kinks get worked out. I've already been stockpiling writ reward bags and gold keys for a month, why stop now
Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Black Rose set was NEVER going to let you block like the good old days, anyway. Anybody who told you otherwise didn't bother to do the math. Personally, I'm glad they gave it a more generally useful bonus.
The only problem with it now is that the Constitution passive is so weak in the first place. Hopefully, they'll buff Constitution to make Heavy Armor more viable.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »The Black Rose set was NEVER going to let you block like the good old days, anyway. Anybody who told you otherwise didn't bother to do the math. Personally, I'm glad they gave it a more generally useful bonus.
The only problem with it now is that the Constitution passive is so weak in the first place. Hopefully, they'll buff Constitution to make Heavy Armor more viable.
Yea, the HA passives are the limiting factor here.Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden1 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PEOPLE WHERE UPSET?
People where suggesting that the nerf is justified BECAUSE of the existence of the Black Rose set.
Honestly, good riddance to it. Maybe now we can focus on why the nerf as bad rather than how players can 'adapt.'Don't tank
"In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel12 -
olemanwinter✭✭✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »
Honestly, good riddance to it. Maybe now we can focus on why the nerf as bad rather than how players can 'adapt.'
Isn't this DLC supposed to drop in 5 days? I don't think the blocking nerf is going anywhere between now and then.
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Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭olemanwinter wrote: »Personofsecrets wrote: »
Honestly, good riddance to it. Maybe now we can focus on why the nerf as bad rather than how players can 'adapt.'
Isn't this DLC supposed to drop in 5 days? I don't think the blocking nerf is going anywhere between now and then.
You are right, but I still think there is some chances for changes in the future. Some silent majority might wake up when the patch hits and console players will likely have a hard time adjusting.Don't tank
"In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel2 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU8 -
Sallington✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Really, all they need to do is make the Constitution passive not completely worthless, and this is a fine change.Daggerfall Covenant
Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||3 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Well that set it garbage now.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)4 -
hrothbern✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »Well that set it garbage now.
lt is obvious that the Forces of Molag Bal have invaded the Headquarters of Zenimax.
We must stop them"I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU5 -
Aett_Thorn✭✭✭✭✭
✭timidobserver wrote: »Well that set it garbage now.
lt is obvious that the Forces of Molag Bal have invaded the Headquarters of Zenimax.
We must stop them
We would, but we can't block their attacks!12 -
Stalwart385✭✭✭✭Well goodbye Black Rose, hello Histbark. Black Rose was slightly better than Histbark with high reduced block cost. I liked the max stam it gave though. Was very good for DK tanks, since their mana to stamina conversion relies on max stamina.
People ask for ZoS to try some kind of compromise to the harsh stam regen hack. ZoS destroys one of the best tanking sets. Really ZoS, really?
DK's and Tanks are getting the shaft this update.Edited by Stalwart385 on August 26, 2015 9:00PM3 -
Stalwart385✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »The Black Rose set was NEVER going to let you block like the good old days, anyway. Anybody who told you otherwise didn't bother to do the math. Personally, I'm glad they gave it a more generally useful bonus.
The only problem with it now is that the Constitution passive is so weak in the first place. Hopefully, they'll buff Constitution to make Heavy Armor more viable.
Blackrose+Engine Guardian+mana regen+max stam+DK was enough to permablock at least 3 mobs. You could perma-block more with cc's and snares/roots. Trust me I did the math and lots of testing to verify the math. You can replace Black Rose with Histbark now. It's not quite as good. Slightly less returns at 800 block cost and less max stam for the DK passive.
The majority of your time will be spent watching mana and stam levels, casting earthen heart skills.Edited by Stalwart385 on August 26, 2015 9:13PM1 -
Zsymon✭✭✭✭Lol, Constitution gives roughly 1% of your highest stat every 4 seconds.
Buffing that with 50% leaves you with getting 1.5% of your highest stat every 4 seconds.
If you have 25K stamina, you'll get 375 stamina every 4 seconds, if you get hit at the exact 4th second, how is that even remotely useful?0 -
Elder_III✭✭✭✭Lol, Constitution gives roughly 1% of your highest stat every 4 seconds.
Buffing that with 50% leaves you with getting 1.5% of your highest stat every 4 seconds.
If you have 25K stamina, you'll get 375 stamina every 4 seconds, if you get hit at the exact 4th second, how is that even remotely useful?
It's not useful at all... a complete waste for tanking. Maybe some DPS with a fetish for Heavy Armor will want the 5pc of Black Rose for the added Weapon and Spell Damage, but it's junk for a tank now.Semi retired from the trading aspects of the game.1 -
Wing✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭with the spastic and incompetent way ZOS "balances" things now I would not be surprised if next update kills magicka builds, makes tanks op, and buffs stamina builds.
I really don't trust ZOS to either listen to community feedback or properly balance their game, its very disappointing.ESO player since beta.
full time subscriber.
PC NA
( ^_^ )
You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods You shall be as gods -XenogearsDK one trick5 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sallington wrote: »Really, all they need to do is make the Constitution passive not completely worthless, and this is a fine change.
It would be nice if they changed it back to scaling up with max health.0 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People always wanted to nerf that set yet preach "ADAPT" because they couldn't adapt to that set, lol talk about contradictment followed by a slice of hypocrisyEdited by MaxwellC on August 27, 2015 12:14AM不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell4 -
EnOeZ✭✭✭✭Sallington wrote: »Really, all they need to do is make the Constitution passive not completely worthless, and this is a fine change.
^^ Exactly this.
Hopefully, with all our voices they will realize that Constitution needs a buff...
#ZOSNeedsToPlayHeavyArmorPVP1 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Constitution is now based on you lvl, could someone tell me how mutch this will be on v16 without the BR Set?#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Teridaxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Constitution is now based on you lvl, could someone tell me how mutch this will be on v16 without the BR Set?
I can't login in right now, but if i remember right it's around 380 when you wear 7/7 heavy like me.
Also guys, they won't buff constitution. In 1.6 they even nerfed it by turning the timer from 2 seconds to 4.
They also took our break free passive and the small 7% melee damage bonus.
Atleast heavy finaly got better at magicka tanking than light....
Edit:
For those who can't login, the second part of the new 5 set passive gives around 130 weapon and spell damage
Edit:
It gives 346 stam and magicka on vr 16 with 7/7 heavy without blackrose buff and 154 weapon/spell damage.
No cp spend.Edited by Teridaxus on August 27, 2015 12:52PM0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Tried new Black Rose on pts - thank ZOS, at least i know where i won't use my Stones after it hit live.
Btw Desert Rose nerf-hammered by 1.7 update too and now it is only shadow of what it was before:
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Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually Desert rose got a buff not a nerf. And it is a significant buff. Probably this will be my IC set for tanking. Converting all the magicka into Stamina as a DK and a high Stamina pool.Tried new Black Rose on pts - thank ZOS, at least i know where i won't use my Stones after it hit live.
Btw Desert Rose nerf-hammered by 1.7 update too and now it is only shadow of what it was before:
Because I can!0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tried new Black Rose on pts - thank ZOS, at least i know where i won't use my Stones after it hit live.
Btw Desert Rose nerf-hammered by 1.7 update too and now it is only shadow of what it was before:
does this set rly has Exploration?#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots2
