Patch 1.7 Commentary -- And how to Fix it

Ishammael

Let's start with the positives:
1. The Imperial City zones are excellent -- moody, well-designed, nice detail. I love the claustrophobic environment and PvP encounters. I love this addition to the Cyrodiil Alliance War.
2. The new dungeons are excellent -- challenging, cool environments

Unfortunately, the balance changes for PvP are really terrible for the game. They are an absolute mess. I will reference @Ezareth 's recent discussion: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/210641/pts-feedback-combat-has-become-uninteresting-and-far-less-enjoyable/p1

Ezareth wrote: »

...
The only way I've found to have the stamina to ensure I have the stamina to continue fighting is to just spam my damage abilities over and over and nothing else. Not only is this actually effective in 2.1....is pretty darn *boring*. And that is what combat has become to me in the 6 or 7 hours I've spent wandering around IC. Boring and uninteresting. The things that made combat to me interesting (even on my Sorc); Bashing and blocking have an unacceptable cost attached to them which makes no sense

I don't want this to become all doom and gloom. I've waited for IC for so long and had such high hopes for it but I find myself looking forward to patch day with trepidation, not excitement. Something needs to be done here to not penalize skillful play, while restricting the abuse of permadodging/permablocking. If this goes live as it is, I can't see myself lasting very long as the combat was the only thing other than my friends that keep my playing this game.

I also want to re-emphasize @Ezareth final paragraph -- I've waited too long and with such high hopes for IC that I want it to be a success.
The root of the problem for all of the 1.7 changes is that they don't fix underlying issues.
The exception is nirnhoned and penetration -- thank you for fixing this.
These problems are:
1. Lag
2. Almighty-Zerg meta and fewer viable methods to run as a small group or single player
3. Ability and armor bugs, inconsistencies, and imbalances
4. Champion System imbalance and scaling.

Symptoms of these problems are low TTK, power gap between new and old players, class imbalance, infinite resources, "one-shot-one-kill", &c.

Rather than a litany of complaints, I have written a set of suggestions. All are simple methods for fixing the problems [with references] rather than addressing symptoms:

1. Throw away all 1.7 balance changes (50% dmg debuff, no stam while blocking, etc.) with the exception of the nirnhoned and penetration fixes. [0, 3] The zones and dungeons are excellent.
2. Write the next "road ahead" article. Explain the vision for the game. Where are we going What are the next steps Why should I give you money?!?! [0-4]
3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
4. Dynamic ultimate generation, toned down from 1.5 rates [2, 4]
5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]
7. Uncap AoE completely [1, 2]
8. Reinstate forward camps, modified for spawn within radius that is approx the size of a keep plus its resources, with a resurrection timer. [1, 2]
9. HP ratio back to 1.5:1:1 [2, 4]
10. Leave siege dmg as is, reinstate un-purgeable oil catpults. [2]
11. Buff keep guards 50% [4]
12. Revert z axis nerfs to gap closers like DK leap and Ambush (Not for pulls like chains and silver leash) [2]
13. Block nerf should scale block cost as a function of time holding block, not remove regen
14. No shield debuff in cyrodil, only allow one active shield at a time, allow shields to be critable [4]
15. Magicka detonation should scale inversely with the number of friends around you and proportionally with the number of enemies hit [2, 4]
16. Create a list of skills for each class that are not used and replace them with usefull abilities [3].
17. Heavy armor substantial buff [3].
18. Across-the-board ability balancing holistically; i.e. Wrecking Blow, Snipe, Crystal Frags, Whip, etc. should all be balanced around class, playstyle, stam vs. magicka, etc., so that balance issues are seen at macro-level rather than individually. See point (2). [3]

BuggeX

3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]

The only Points i will Support,

i disagree with the other sugests you made

Ruben

2.1

Kas

BuggeX wrote: »

3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]

The only Points i will Support,

i disagree with the other sugests you made

i agree with you.

one think i remarked elsewhere:
let's pray 1.8 is sufficiently quick. imho any change can be great. we haven't see ANYTHING w.r.t how 1.7 combat will evolve over the next month. I'm still really looking forward to changes. I love adapting anew. If 1.7 combat is your thing, enjoy it. if it isn't, know that 1.8 will be different once again.

i'm looking forward to any change. I love theorecrafting, trying out stuff, having goals. I hate logging in expecting to just play the exact same way as i did the day before.

Rook_Master

The real problem is that we are getting huge paradigm shifts in fundamental gameplay 1+ years after launch.

Throughout the patch history, major problems have been ignored that are only now being addressed, and in the wrong ways.


Let me give you a brief history of class balance in this game.

April 2014 - March 2015
Vampire Dunmer DK or GTFO


Changing ultimate generation was ultimately what made DK not super OP anymore. As much as people want to pine about "dynamic" ultimate generation. It was crap. I know you liked getting a tri-pot on your DK because Bats restored the base cost before vampire passive ult cost reduction, but that crap had to go.

Removing softcaps and issues with CP stacking in unforseen ways is what has led to the current 1.6 meta of unkillable sorcs. Instead of nerfing Hardened Ward or making it so you can't stack more than one shield, we just swing a huge nerf bat at all shields.

There have been balance issues which should have been hotfixed immediately, such as the sharpened and nirnhoned bugs, but were left to languish for MONTHS. This is unacceptable, and really speaks volumes about Zenimax's approach to balance in this game.

1.7 is going to make or break this game, and lots of well-respected people like @Ezareth have been putting up red flags now that don't bode well for the future.

BuggeX

Other Thing.

15. Magicka detonation should scale inversely with the number of friends around you and proportionally with the number of enemies hit [2, 4]

should be changed to a Skill which only scall from enemys hit.
It Should deal unresistable DMG.

It should deal 2k DMG for each Target (just Players) in the area.

More than a blob than 10 Players will not be possible anymore


GG
Easy

Draxys

I think we do need a damage debuff, I wouldn't go without it entirely, but 50% is nuts. Especially coming from developers who have claimed multiple times that they don't want to over nerf stuff. Somehow they always do. The debuff should be 10-15% for starters, and increase it if damage is still out of hand.

ToRelax

I agree with most of this. For whatever reason they are happy with their changes though, it seems.

omfgitsbatman

For as much time as you put into this post, I feel bad for saying that most of these are absolutely terrible suggestions. Most of them are reverting changes that were made for very significant reasons. Others are just silly:

5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3]- Really? Barrier is the ultimate from the support tree in Aliance war and is only better than things like nova while on the go. It's not overpowered. It's an ultimate that gets used and does exactly as it was designed to do. Healing springs? How are you going to take away the best heal for non templars?

12. Revert z axis nerfs to gap closers like DK leap and Ambush (Not for pulls like chains and silver leash) [2] - You know why this was changed right? It was breaking Cyrodiil because people get into undamaged keeps using these skills.

That being said, I support #'s 2, 16, and 18

Ishammael

Rook_Master wrote: »

The real problem is that we are getting huge paradigm shifts in fundamental gameplay 1+ years after launch.

Throughout the patch history, major problems have been ignored that are only now being addressed, and in the wrong ways.


Let me give you a brief history of class balance in this game.

April 2014 - March 2015
Vampire Dunmer DK or GTFO


Changing ultimate generation was ultimately what made DK not super OP anymore. As much as people want to pine about "dynamic" ultimate generation. It was crap. I know you liked getting a tri-pot on your DK because Bats restored the base cost before vampire passive ult cost reduction, but that crap had to go.

Removing softcaps and issues with CP stacking in unforseen ways is what has led to the current 1.6 meta of unkillable sorcs. Instead of nerfing Hardened Ward or making it so you can't stack more than one shield, we just swing a huge nerf bat at all shields.

There have been balance issues which should have been hotfixed immediately, such as the sharpened and nirnhoned bugs, but were left to languish for MONTHS. This is unacceptable, and really speaks volumes about Zenimax's approach to balance in this game.

1.7 is going to make or break this game, and lots of well-respected people like @Ezareth have been putting up red flags now that don't bode well for the future.

While I won't disagree that Vampire/DK was the strongest class throughout 1.4-1.5, it relied heavily on bad players suiciding into Flappy-Flaps, standing in Banners, and dying to bats. Strong nightblades leverage dynamic ultimate generation by zerg-diving, standing in veils, and sap-tank. Sorc's would streak/bats. All classes benefited.

Agreed that balanced issues linger too long. In fact, they linger so long they become part of the meta rather than, "Remember that one week when..."

Ishammael

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

For as much time as you put into this post, I feel bad for saying that most of these are absolutely terrible suggestions. Most of them are reverting changes that were made for very significant reasons. Others are just silly:

5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3]- Really? Barrier is the ultimate from the support tree in Aliance war and is only better than things like nova while on the go. It's not overpowered. It's an ultimate that gets used and does exactly as it was designed to do. Healing springs? How are you going to take away the best heal for non templars?

12. Revert z axis nerfs to gap closers like DK leap and Ambush (Not for pulls like chains and silver leash) [2] - You know why this was changed right? It was breaking Cyrodiil because people get into undamaged keeps using these skills.

That being said, I support #'s 2, 16, and 18

Barrier is the Zerg's #1 tool. Healing springs proveably causes lag. That is why.

Suggestion 12 is simply personal preference. Yeah I know why it was removed. But it was really fun.

Ishammael

BuggeX wrote: »

3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]

The only Points i will Support,

i disagree with the other sugests you made

What about (2), (16), (18)? Those are pretty generic.

Darlon

Ishammael wrote: »

5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3]

uhm, lol ?

you want to remove an ability (barrier) that you get specifically in a pvp skill line completely from pvp ?

Ishammael

Darlon wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3]

uhm, lol ?

you want to remove an ability (barrier) that you get specifically in a pvp skill line completely from pvp ?

Yes, barrier is way over-powered. Replace it with something.

Darlon

Ishammael wrote: »

Darlon wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3]

uhm, lol ?

you want to remove an ability (barrier) that you get specifically in a pvp skill line completely from pvp ?

Yes, barrier is way over-powered. Replace it with something.

ah, right. You said you wanted to remove it from pvp only, which does not make sense for a skill gained from a pvp skill line...

technohic

I agree with about everything you said.

Ishammael

technohic wrote: »

I agree with about everything you said.

Thanks! Hopefully someone will listen.

ESO is amazingly fun. I want it to continue to be.

Darlon wrote: »

ah, right. You said you wanted to remove it from pvp only, which does not make sense for a skill gained from a pvp skill line...

Replace it or make it a PvE skill. I don't care. It is too good in PvP -- when the groups I run are functioning well, we have 100% uptime on barrier. So do all good groups. Watch Havoc, Deci, Nexus, etc. play.

Soris

I like this. As the other 905423 threads with pretty much same suggestions. I dont like the current state of game and where it is heading. These are pretty much what must be done to save this game from my eyes. And I'm still waiting for that day, a dev with big balls come in a position with autoritah to make this happen.

BuggeX

Ishammael wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]

The only Points i will Support,

i disagree with the other sugests you made

What about (2), (16), (18)? Those are pretty generic.

They allready made a road ahead for 2015/2016
Orsarium - Dark Bortherhood - Thiefguild - Mukledings - the last DLC is unknown atm.

I dont want that they replace "uselles" Skills, i want that they buff them apart others.

Didnt undertsdand 18

Ishammael

Soris wrote: »

I like this. As the other 905423 threads with pretty much same suggestions. I dont like the current state of game and where it is heading. These are pretty much what must be done to save this game from my eyes. And I'm still waiting for that day, a dev with big balls come in a position with autoritah to make this happen.

Thanks!

You hit on a big problem -- dislike of where the game is headed. Unfortunately, they haven't stated a clear vision explaining why they are doing anything. What is the vision? Where are we going?

Finally, content is king. Someone needs to nut-up and stop REMOVING FEATURES. All we have done is remove stuff since day one. Add it back in -- just fix it.

Finally, release Orsinium ASAP.

Ishammael

BuggeX wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]

The only Points i will Support,

i disagree with the other sugests you made

What about (2), (16), (18)? Those are pretty generic.

They allready made a road ahead for 2015/2016
Orsarium - Dark Bortherhood - Thiefguild - Mukledings - the last DLC is unknown atm.

I dont want that they replace "uselles" Skills, i want that they buff them apart others.

Didnt undertsdand 18

Where is this road ahead? I must have missed something.

BuggeX

Ishammael wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]

The only Points i will Support,

i disagree with the other sugests you made

What about (2), (16), (18)? Those are pretty generic.

They allready made a road ahead for 2015/2016
Orsarium - Dark Bortherhood - Thiefguild - Mukledings - the last DLC is unknown atm.

I dont want that they replace "uselles" Skills, i want that they buff them apart others.

Didnt undertsdand 18

Where is this road ahead? I must have missed something.

They said this in a live A/Q not in a generic Road aHead article.

3-4 bigger DLC each year, 3 are knowed allready for the comming year, if they plan/has time for the 4 they will do it, but noone can say wath this dlc would be

Ishammael

BuggeX wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]

The only Points i will Support,

i disagree with the other sugests you made

What about (2), (16), (18)? Those are pretty generic.

They allready made a road ahead for 2015/2016
Orsarium - Dark Bortherhood - Thiefguild - Mukledings - the last DLC is unknown atm.

I dont want that they replace "uselles" Skills, i want that they buff them apart others.

Didnt undertsdand 18

Where is this road ahead? I must have missed something.

They said this in a live A/Q not in a generic Road aHead article.

3-4 bigger DLC each year, 3 are knowed allready for the comming year, if they plan/has time for the 4 they will do it, but noone can say wath this dlc would be

Well let's hope they get that stuff out!

Regardless, I stand by the PvP balance changes outlined in the OP.

Rune_Relic

ToRelax wrote: »

I agree with most of this. For whatever reason they are happy with their changes though, it seems.

Question is ...are they balancing PTS and then moving onto wrothgar when it goes live.
Will it go live and then be balanced properly for a few weeks ..using PTS for bug fixing.
Does LIVE = Abandoned for months while they focus on other things.

Soris

Rune_Relic wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

I agree with most of this. For whatever reason they are happy with their changes though, it seems.

Question is ...are they balancing PTS and then moving onto wrothgar when it goes live.
Will it go live and then be balanced properly for a few weeks ..using PTS for bug fixing.
Does LIVE = Abandoned for months while they focus on other things.

Sure it is. That's what they are doing since a year.

Rune_Relic

Ishammael wrote: »

Let's start with the positives:
1. The Imperial City zones are excellent -- moody, well-designed, nice detail. I love the claustrophobic environment and PvP encounters. I love this addition to the Cyrodiil Alliance War.
2. The new dungeons are excellent -- challenging, cool environments

Unfortunately, the balance changes for PvP are really terrible for the game. They are an absolute mess. I will reference @Ezareth 's recent discussion: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/210641/pts-feedback-combat-has-become-uninteresting-and-far-less-enjoyable/p1

Ezareth wrote: »

...
The only way I've found to have the stamina to ensure I have the stamina to continue fighting is to just spam my damage abilities over and over and nothing else. Not only is this actually effective in 2.1....is pretty darn *boring*. And that is what combat has become to me in the 6 or 7 hours I've spent wandering around IC. Boring and uninteresting. The things that made combat to me interesting (even on my Sorc); Bashing and blocking have an unacceptable cost attached to them which makes no sense

I don't want this to become all doom and gloom. I've waited for IC for so long and had such high hopes for it but I find myself looking forward to patch day with trepidation, not excitement. Something needs to be done here to not penalize skillful play, while restricting the abuse of permadodging/permablocking. If this goes live as it is, I can't see myself lasting very long as the combat was the only thing other than my friends that keep my playing this game.

I also want to re-emphasize @Ezareth final paragraph -- I've waited too long and with such high hopes for IC that I want it to be a success.
The root of the problem for all of the 1.7 changes is that they don't fix underlying issues.
The exception is nirnhoned and penetration -- thank you for fixing this.
These problems are:
1. Lag
2. Almighty-Zerg meta and fewer viable methods to run as a small group or single player
3. Ability and armor bugs, inconsistencies, and imbalances
4. Champion System imbalance and scaling.

Symptoms of these problems are low TTK, power gap between new and old players, class imbalance, infinite resources, "one-shot-one-kill", &c.

Rather than a litany of complaints, I have written a set of suggestions. All are simple methods for fixing the problems [with references] rather than addressing symptoms:

1. Throw away all 1.7 balance changes (50% dmg debuff, no stam while blocking, etc.) with the exception of the nirnhoned and penetration fixes. [0, 3] The zones and dungeons are excellent.
2. Write the next "road ahead" article. Explain the vision for the game. Where are we going What are the next steps Why should I give you money?!?! [0-4] agree
3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2] agree
4. Dynamic ultimate generation, toned down from 1.5 rates [2, 4]
5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3] fix-them
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2] agree
7. Uncap AoE completely [1, 2]
8. Reinstate forward camps, modified for spawn within radius that is approx the size of a keep plus its resources, with a resurrection timer. [1, 2]
9. HP ratio back to 1.5:1:1 [2, 4]
10. Leave siege dmg as is, reinstate un-purgeable oil catpults. [2] fix-purge
11. Buff keep guards 50% [4]
12. Revert z axis nerfs to gap closers like DK leap and Ambush (Not for pulls like chains and silver leash) [2]
13. Block nerf should scale block cost as a function of time holding block, not remove regen agree
14. No shield debuff in cyrodil, only allow one active shield at a time, allow shields to be critable [4] agree
15. Magicka detonation should scale inversely with the number of friends around you and proportionally with the number of enemies hit [2, 4]
16. Create a list of skills for each class that are not used and replace them with usefull abilities [3]. balanced skill would be viable
17. Heavy armor substantial buff [3]. agree
18. Across-the-board ability balancing holistically; i.e. Wrecking Blow, Snipe, Crystal Frags, Whip, etc. should all be balanced around class, playstyle, stam vs. magicka, etc., so that balance issues are seen at macro-level rather than individually. See point (2). [3] agree

...

Joy_Division

Ishammael wrote: »

Let's start with the positives:
1. The Imperial City zones are excellent -- moody, well-designed, nice detail. I love the claustrophobic environment and PvP encounters. I love this addition to the Cyrodiil Alliance War.
2. The new dungeons are excellent -- challenging, cool environments

Unfortunately, the balance changes for PvP are really terrible for the game. They are an absolute mess. I will reference @Ezareth 's recent discussion: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/210641/pts-feedback-combat-has-become-uninteresting-and-far-less-enjoyable/p1

Ezareth wrote: »

...
The only way I've found to have the stamina to ensure I have the stamina to continue fighting is to just spam my damage abilities over and over and nothing else. Not only is this actually effective in 2.1....is pretty darn *boring*. And that is what combat has become to me in the 6 or 7 hours I've spent wandering around IC. Boring and uninteresting. The things that made combat to me interesting (even on my Sorc); Bashing and blocking have an unacceptable cost attached to them which makes no sense

I don't want this to become all doom and gloom. I've waited for IC for so long and had such high hopes for it but I find myself looking forward to patch day with trepidation, not excitement. Something needs to be done here to not penalize skillful play, while restricting the abuse of permadodging/permablocking. If this goes live as it is, I can't see myself lasting very long as the combat was the only thing other than my friends that keep my playing this game.

I also want to re-emphasize @Ezareth final paragraph -- I've waited too long and with such high hopes for IC that I want it to be a success.
The root of the problem for all of the 1.7 changes is that they don't fix underlying issues.
The exception is nirnhoned and penetration -- thank you for fixing this.
These problems are:
1. Lag
2. Almighty-Zerg meta and fewer viable methods to run as a small group or single player
3. Ability and armor bugs, inconsistencies, and imbalances
4. Champion System imbalance and scaling.

Symptoms of these problems are low TTK, power gap between new and old players, class imbalance, infinite resources, "one-shot-one-kill", &c.

Rather than a litany of complaints, I have written a set of suggestions. All are simple methods for fixing the problems [with references] rather than addressing symptoms:

1. Throw away all 1.7 balance changes (50% dmg debuff, no stam while blocking, etc.) with the exception of the nirnhoned and penetration fixes. [0, 3] The zones and dungeons are excellent.
2. Write the next "road ahead" article. Explain the vision for the game. Where are we going What are the next steps Why should I give you money?!?! [0-4]
3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2]
4. Dynamic ultimate generation, toned down from 1.5 rates [2, 4]
5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3]
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2]
7. Uncap AoE completely [1, 2]
8. Reinstate forward camps, modified for spawn within radius that is approx the size of a keep plus its resources, with a resurrection timer. [1, 2]
9. HP ratio back to 1.5:1:1 [2, 4]
10. Leave siege dmg as is, reinstate un-purgeable oil catpults. [2]
11. Buff keep guards 50% [4]
12. Revert z axis nerfs to gap closers like DK leap and Ambush (Not for pulls like chains and silver leash) [2]
13. Block nerf should scale block cost as a function of time holding block, not remove regen
14. No shield debuff in cyrodil, only allow one active shield at a time, allow shields to be critable [4]
15. Magicka detonation should scale inversely with the number of friends around you and proportionally with the number of enemies hit [2, 4]
16. Create a list of skills for each class that are not used and replace them with usefull abilities [3].
17. Heavy armor substantial buff [3].
18. Across-the-board ability balancing holistically; i.e. Wrecking Blow, Snipe, Crystal Frags, Whip, etc. should all be balanced around class, playstyle, stam vs. magicka, etc., so that balance issues are seen at macro-level rather than individually. See point (2). [3]

While I support the general direction you are trying to go, some of these you dont put enough consideration into the consequences of these suggestions (which is that same thing ZoS does).

1. re: 5 no meteor, barrier, healing springs: you keep preaching this and people keep telling you healing springs is an essential skill and barrier performs a legitimate function.
2. re: 12 chains/ambush: pulling people off castle walls is OP. NBs ambushing into walled keeps and insta-murdering people on siege causes rage quits.
3. re 14: One shield: Sorcerer casts her hardened ward and then receives a 1k shield form another player's item set bonus. Sorcerer then dies horribly.
4. re 15 prox detonation: Interesting, but main problem I have with the skill is it is insane single target ability which is completely contrary to its intended function. I'd just prefer they make the skill function like old ground oils.
5. re 18: While there are too many craptastic abilities, I think the main problem with TTK is that spell/weapon power is too obvious best in slot and it is possible to crazy stack this *and* have high sustain and defense, which should not be possible. Nerfing the damage to wrecking blow won't balance the game.

Ezareth

While I agree with a lot of what was said here I also don't agree with other things.

The point of my post was specifically designed to avoid specific suggestions and mainly highlight the issues I found in PTS and provide feedback.

I think 1.6 has many broken things that are fixed in 2.1

Exploits (Mundus/Overload/Werepire)
Bugs (*Battle Spirit*(often overlooked because many people still don't understand the impact of this)/Dawnbreaker/Sharpened/Nirnhoned)

Some other things were changed that I both agree and disagree with in respect to balance and combat changes.

Jesus Beam Nerf
Cloak Fixes/Indirect Buff
Bolt Escape Nerf
Block Nerf
Dodge Roll Nerf
Vampire/WW Nerf
Stamina Generation Formula Nerf
etc.

These are the kind of things that I feel need the most attention to finding the *correct* solution to the real problem and I don't feel that they are doing that.

As a result the combat has change in Cyrodiil and it has lost a lot of what I felt made it ESO and it now feels more like World of Warcraft...except instead of 50 abilities at my disposal I only have 6. This is the problem I want to address more than anything else (except maybe lag but that is the obvious elephant in the room).

ThyIronFist

Agreed with pretty much everything. Although I am not sure about barrier, it makes zergs too strong, true, just cap it to 6 people or something then. Another big problem is that every man and his dog is spamming caltrops. It's ridiculous. Everywhere you go there are endless fields of caltrops, caltrops, caltrops and even more caltrops.

Also, WTB ground oil.

... and to be honest, if they decide to bring back forward camps I wouldn't even care about blood porting, I'm sick of the current zerg meta.

Some people thought removing FCs would magically fix the lag and there'd be less zerging, in fact we got the opposite.

Robbmrp

Here's my take on these suggestions.

These problems are:
1. Lag This should be the highest priority and needs a resolution immediately if the LOS changes don't resolve it.
2. Almighty-Zerg meta and fewer viable methods to run as a small group or single player Zergs don't matter if you can actually kill people. With lag and endless shields it doesn't matter if they are in Zergs or not.
3. Ability and armor bugs, inconsistencies, and imbalances These should be hotfixed as they are found and researched, no reason to wait months on this.
4. Champion System imbalance and scaling. Remove CP from Non Vet Campaigns. Add in a 0 CP Vet Campaign and possibly more depending on population levels.

Symptoms of these problems are low TTK, power gap between new and old players, class imbalance, infinite resources, "one-shot-one-kill", &c.

Rather than a litany of complaints, I have written a set of suggestions. All are simple methods for fixing the problems [with references] rather than addressing symptoms:

1. Throw away all 1.7 balance changes (50% dmg debuff, no stam while blocking, etc.) with the exception of the nirnhoned and penetration fixes. [0, 3] The zones and dungeons are excellent. Drop Single Target damage by 20% and AOE's by 40%(should never be higher than 60% single target damage since it hits mult targets), change 0 stamina regen to a blocking cool down based on length of block held. This will require people to learn to block when needed and not continuously.
2. Write the next "road ahead" article. Explain the vision for the game. Where are we going What are the next steps Why should I give you money?!?! [0-4] This should be done monthly or bi-monthly so customer base knows what's going on.
3. Add new objectives throughout the Cyrodiil zone -- flags at the towns (Bruma, Chey, etc.) -- more Transitus connections -- more outposts -- more buffs like Ayleid wells [1, 2] Agree, the space in Cyrodil is wasted with nothing to do in 90% of it.
4. Dynamic ultimate generation, toned down from 1.5 rates [2, 4] Leave generation as is, tone down visual effect by 50% and damage by 35%.
5. Remove barrier, meteor, healing springs from pvp [1, 2, 3] Removing these are unneeded if only 1 shield is allowed and Ultimate/AOE effects are reduced by 50% and damage by 35/40%. AOE's should affect all players within spell radius. AOE should never be as high as a single target damage.
6. Nerf steel tornado to 8m, impulse back to 8m (leave damage as is) [2] Change all AOE(with no duration) Radius to 8m, Reduce all AOE damage by 40%
7. Uncap AoE completely [1, 2] Agree
8. Reinstate forward camps, modified for spawn within radius that is approx the size of a keep plus its resources, with a resurrection timer. [1, 2] Agree
9. HP ratio back to 1.5:1:1 [2, 4] With increasing health, it allows for better use of attributes, to have to max health with all attributes because damage is so high is a joke.
10. Leave siege dmg as is, reinstate un-purgeable oil catpults. [2] Agree
11. Buff keep guards 50% [4] Agree
12. Revert z axis nerfs to gap closers like DK leap and Ambush (Not for pulls like chains and silver leash) [2] People should not be able to fly up to a keep or outpost not on ground level. Chains or leash can only work when on the same level as the target, cannot pull up or down levels.
13. Block nerf should scale block cost as a function of time holding block, not remove regen Leave regen as is, add blocking cool down based on length of block being held.
14. No shield debuff in cyrodil, only allow one active shield at a time, allow shields to be critable [4] Agree, only highest shield should be applied. Other affects should be given tho, healing ward should heal, just not add extra shield.
15. Magicka detonation should scale inversely with the number of friends around you and proportionally with the number of enemies hit [2, 4] Agree
16. Create a list of skills for each class that are not used and replace them with usefull abilities [3]. Agree
17. Heavy armor substantial buff [3]. Agree but also a reduction of Spell resistance, can't have the best of both.
18. Across-the-board ability balancing holistically; i.e. Wrecking Blow, Snipe, Crystal Frags, Whip, etc. should all be balanced around class, playstyle, stam vs. magicka, etc., so that balance issues are seen at macro-level rather than individually. See point (2). [3] Agree

I would also like to see the range extended for receiving rewards when defending a keep and it's resources. The keep perimeter should include the resources as they are on the Keep grounds around it. Once you've left the resource area by 5m heading away from the keep you would then only receive the resource "tick". You should be able to receive both keep and resource "ticks" while defending/retaking resources.

Ishammael

Thanks for all the responses, everyone. I don't expect everyone to agree. Just want a starting point for discussion and to explain why I don't care for particular changes.