Nightblade = God Mode In The Imperial City

Xeven

Anyone can see after 15 minutes PvPing inside the IC Districts/Sewers that it's a Nightblades wet dream. The Imperial City is jam-packed wall-to-wall with hard hitting v16 Daedra. Nightblades have the power to shed aggro at will, enter and exit combat at will, and dictate when and where they will fight. (How about right here in this pack of Daedra?)

Defending yourself from Nightblades in the IC will be almost futile. They will own the place. Mark my words.

1) AOE is no longer a detection option because of mass aggro.
2) Running away is no longer an option because of mass aggro.
3) Fighting/Killing any decent NB will be almost impossible because they can hide behind an army of Daedra at will.
4) Aggroing other monsters while fighting Nightblades will be common, because they will quickly learn to use your own abilities against you.
5) For 30 seconds out of every 45 (detection pot nerf), you will be a Nigthblades play thing. Alternatively you can give up two skill slots and 5% magicka for a pisspoor detection radius, which does not mind you, solve any of the previous problems I mentioned. It merely gives you the ability to see the person who is killing you, maybe!

contact.opiumb16_ESO

Xeven wrote: »

Anyone can see after 15 minutes PvPing inside the IC Districts/Sewers that it's a Nightblades wet dream. The Imperial City is jam-packed wall-to-wall with hard hitting v16 Daedra. Nightblades have the power to shed aggro at will, enter and exit combat at will, and dictate when and where they will fight. (How about right here in this pack of Daedra?)

Defending yourself from Nightblades in the IC will be almost futile. They will own the place. Mark my words.

1) AOE is no longer a detection option because of mass aggro.
2) Running away is no longer an option because of mass aggro.
3) Fighting/Killing any decent NB will be almost impossible because they can hide behind an army of Daedra at will.
4) Aggroing other monsters while fighting Nightblades will be common, because they will quickly learn to use your own abilities against you.
5) For 30 seconds out of every 45 (detection pot nerf), you will be a Nigthblades play thing. Alternatively you can give up two skill slots and 5% magicka for a pisspoor detection radius, which does not mind you, solve any of the previous problems I mentioned. It merely gives you the ability to see the person who is killing you, maybe!

L2P bro' ! (sarcasm inside again !)

Indeed NB are op in IC, but they are already in PVP Live.

Iggybot

Dark cloak doesn't drop aggro. And detection pots are currently way too powerful. The only thing NBs can do that others can't is pick our battles a little better than others.

For every time a NB can pick a battle and get away with it, there's another fight we get slaughtered because our main defensive skill can be countered by a potion everyone can use.

Xeven

Iggybot wrote: »

Dark cloak doesn't drop aggro.

Cloak is a key skill used in a technique to drop aggro, which is easily done in the IC. You can see it for yourself right now. Log in.

EnOeZ

Xeven wrote: »

Anyone can see after 15 minutes PvPing inside the IC Districts/Sewers that it's a Nightblades wet dream. The Imperial City is jam-packed wall-to-wall with hard hitting v16 Daedra. Nightblades have the power to shed aggro at will, enter and exit combat at will, and dictate when and where they will fight. (How about right here in this pack of Daedra?)

Defending yourself from Nightblades in the IC will be almost futile. They will own the place. Mark my words.

1) AOE is no longer a detection option because of mass aggro.
2) Running away is no longer an option because of mass aggro.
3) Fighting/Killing any decent NB will be almost impossible because they can hide behind an army of Daedra at will.
4) Aggroing other monsters while fighting Nightblades will be common, because they will quickly learn to use your own abilities against you.
5) For 30 seconds out of every 45 (detection pot nerf), you will be a Nigthblades play thing. Alternatively you can give up two skill slots and 5% magicka for a pisspoor detection radius, which does not mind you, solve any of the previous problems I mentioned. It merely gives you the ability to see the person who is killing you, maybe!

Who does not agree with your words ?...
NB playground of course.

Pangnirtung

Is this any different than a year ago when it was the DKs who were overpowered?

Just a hunch, this will be a complaint until the servers go down for good one day. There will NEVER be balance in PVP.

Xeven

This isn't about balance alone. Its about the first DLC ever being designed (unintentionally or othewise) to heavily favor a single class. I am genuinely concerned.

WebBull

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Just a hunch, this will be a complaint until the servers go down for good one day. There will NEVER be balance in PVP.

This is true however there are varying degrees in balance. Putting exploits/marcos aside balance currently on live is mediocre. After this patch, it will be plain bad.

WillhelmBlack

Well it was pretty much designed around ganking so it would somewhat favour the Nightblade, you would think. In fact, with the current battle system it's so easy to expose them and take them out as they just don't have that burst (1 or 2 shot) they used to have. Plus, magelight, pots and revealing flare will be on someone's bar in your group if you're playing smart.

Dracane

Xeven wrote: »

5) For 30 seconds out of every 45 (detection pot nerf), you will be a Nigthblades play thing.

~15 seconds out of 45

Maulkin

I do think that after a round of mostly buffs magicka NBs will be the strongest class in the next update. That said I don't think they are OP or god-mode in Cyrodiil in general. Very strong sure, but manageable.

However, inside Imperial City they rule supreme.

- They can cloak past any monsters they don't want to fight and avoid drawing attention from other players
- The tight spaces and corridors are perfect for escaping with shadow image and cloak
- They can drop mob (non-Boss) aggro as long as the area is not covered in AoEs

These are huge advantages for NBs.

From tests, my Sorc doesn't feel weaker in 1v1s against Magicka NBs, but it does feel clumsier inside IC because my two escape tools (boundless storm and streak) are both AoE damage and they draw insane aggro from mobs.

That said, on PTS there are no organised groups and as such and the group meta isn't fully developed yet. So there is still some uncertainty over how things will play out on actual Live release. But on the chaos of current PTS the magicka NB is certainly king.

Maulkin

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

5) For 30 seconds out of every 45 (detection pot nerf), you will be a Nigthblades play thing.

~15 seconds out of 45

For 15 seconds you can put pressure. For 30 seconds you are their plaything. OP said it right

GreenSoup2HoT

I think they need to stop Magicka Regen from Cloak just like Mist Form. This way magicka nightblade's will eventually need a safe place to regen rather then running around cloaking 24/7.

Dracane

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

5) For 30 seconds out of every 45 (detection pot nerf), you will be a Nigthblades play thing.

~15 seconds out of 45

For 15 seconds you can put pressure. For 30 seconds you are their plaything. OP said it right

Right. I misunderstood him then
After reading it again, it's pretty obvious don't know what I was reading the first time.

Master_Kas

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I think they need to stop Magicka Regen from Cloak just like Mist Form. This way magicka nightblade's will eventually need a safe place to regen rather then running around cloaking 24/7.

Then stamina nightblades can use cloak 2-3 times (if it doesn't get countered) then die, specially with the dodgenerf?

Rather a cost increase if you spam it.

Add a no regen when spamming shields aswell then , see how all people like this.

People always seems to forget not every nightblade is a magicka nb permacloaking.

BalticBlues

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I think they need to stop Magicka Regen from Cloak just like Mist Form. This way magicka nightblade's will eventually need a safe place to regen rather then running around cloaking 24/7.

Agreed. This is the minimum requirement for proper gameplay.

We don't regen stamina while blocking anymore.
So why NBs still regen magicka while cloaking?

kojou

I think in 1 v 1 situations the OP is more or less correct. I think the bigger problem will be large groups of farmers. A nightblade will be able to get an opportunistic kill or 2 but there is nothing a nightblade can do against a large group except hide.

Dracane

Master_Kas wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I think they need to stop Magicka Regen from Cloak just like Mist Form. This way magicka nightblade's will eventually need a safe place to regen rather then running around cloaking 24/7.

Then stamina nightblades can use cloak 2-3 times (if it doesn't get countered) then die, specially with the dodgenerf?

Rather a cost increase if you spam it.

Add a no regen when spamming shields aswell then , see how all people like this.

People always seems to forget not every nightblade is a magicka nb permacloaking.

And not all Sorcerers are Magicka Sorcerer and not all are using it to run away and still they have to endure this penalty.

Maulkin

Master_Kas wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I think they need to stop Magicka Regen from Cloak just like Mist Form. This way magicka nightblade's will eventually need a safe place to regen rather then running around cloaking 24/7.

Then stamina nightblades can use cloak 2-3 times (if it doesn't get countered) then die, specially with the dodgenerf?

Rather a cost increase if you spam it.

Add a no regen when spamming shields aswell then , see how all people like this.

People always seems to forget not every nightblade is a magicka nb permacloaking.

I don't advocate a nerf just yet, we'll have to see how it plays out.

However we used the same exact arguments about Bolt and with this update it received its 10th nerf (more than any other skill in the history of MMOs I believe) and is borderline unusable by stamina builds as an escape.

Anyhow, the cloak is a difficult thing to balance, in a way like Bolt I guess. With the detect pots lasting 45" it could be almost completely useless at times. With detect pots at 15" and no increasing cost I think it'll be potentially too strong for Magicka NBs, while still balanced for stamblades.

We'll have to see how this goes in the next month or two.

MrGrimey

I think this is more of a problem with them adding hard hitting tanky boss NPCs in a pvp map... Why won't zos just let us pvp?

Xael

Xeven wrote: »

Anyone can see after 15 minutes PvPing inside the IC Districts/Sewers that it's a Nightblades wet dream. The Imperial City is jam-packed wall-to-wall with hard hitting v16 Daedra. Nightblades have the power to shed aggro at will, enter and exit combat at will, and dictate when and where they will fight. (How about right here in this pack of Daedra?)

Defending yourself from Nightblades in the IC will be almost futile. They will own the place. Mark my words.

1) AOE is no longer a detection option because of mass aggro.
2) Running away is no longer an option because of mass aggro.
3) Fighting/Killing any decent NB will be almost impossible because they can hide behind an army of Daedra at will.
4) Aggroing other monsters while fighting Nightblades will be common, because they will quickly learn to use your own abilities against you.
5) For 30 seconds out of every 45 (detection pot nerf), you will be a Nigthblades play thing. Alternatively you can give up two skill slots and 5% magicka for a pisspoor detection radius, which does not mind you, solve any of the previous problems I mentioned. It merely gives you the ability to see the person who is killing you, maybe!

Interesting. I have over 50 hours on PTS v2.1+ in IC districts alone and I completely disagree with this.
I do believe though you probably lasted about 15 minutes though, usually threads like this are indicative of PvP newbies or baseless whining.

NBs don't shed aggro at will, it's clear you not only don't play a nightblade but no very little about the cloak mechanic.

1. Everyone spams AoE. Had you actually played on PTS when it was packed with PvP you would know this.
2. People still run away. Had you actually played on PTS when it was packed with PvP you would know this.
3. Again untrue. I have killed tons of Nightblades in the districts, even some 1vX, specifically good players like Benzy.
4. Aggro happens regardless of class.
5. Completely false. People spam Flare, Caltrops, and use Radiant Magelight. You also have this option. Again, more baseless whining. Also had you actually played on PTS when it was packed with PvP you would know this. 12m is not ***/poor, it stops the stun, it reduces the opener by 50% for you and those near you, it allows you to chase. You also don't need 2 slots, thouhg I do use it on 2 and do just fine. I have upwards of 40 kill streaks on a crappy stam sorc dual slotted with RML. What's your excuse? Oh wait, you don't PvP, let alone on the very PTS you are conjecturing about.

I seriously hope the ZOS team is intelligent enough to distinguish between baseless whining/ranting(threads such as these) and objective facts.

Xeniph

So many faulty skill comparisons in this thread.

Xeven

Xael wrote: »

snip

Lol you are so mad bro. Just to clarify, I'm easily a top 20 NA Sorc, been playing since 1.5, and former solo Emperor of Haderus.

I'm going to resume ignoring you now.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Master_Kas

Dracane wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I think they need to stop Magicka Regen from Cloak just like Mist Form. This way magicka nightblade's will eventually need a safe place to regen rather then running around cloaking 24/7.

Then stamina nightblades can use cloak 2-3 times (if it doesn't get countered) then die, specially with the dodgenerf?

Rather a cost increase if you spam it.

Add a no regen when spamming shields aswell then , see how all people like this.

People always seems to forget not every nightblade is a magicka nb permacloaking.

And not all Sorcerers are Magicka Sorcerer and not all are using it to run away and still they have to endure this penalty.

I can safley say that 75% of the sorcerers in game are magicka sorcerers if not more.

While nightblades i'ts more like 50/50 on magicka and stamina since those who pick nightblade mostly picks it to be a "assassin" / melee DPS character (Not all ofc)

Master_Kas

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I think they need to stop Magicka Regen from Cloak just like Mist Form. This way magicka nightblade's will eventually need a safe place to regen rather then running around cloaking 24/7.

Then stamina nightblades can use cloak 2-3 times (if it doesn't get countered) then die, specially with the dodgenerf?

Rather a cost increase if you spam it.

Add a no regen when spamming shields aswell then , see how all people like this.

People always seems to forget not every nightblade is a magicka nb permacloaking.

I don't advocate a nerf just yet, we'll have to see how it plays out.

However we used the same exact arguments about Bolt and with this update it received its 10th nerf (more than any other skill in the history of MMOs I believe) and is borderline unusable by stamina builds as an escape.

Anyhow, the cloak is a difficult thing to balance, in a way like Bolt I guess. With the detect pots lasting 45" it could be almost completely useless at times. With detect pots at 15" and no increasing cost I think it'll be potentially too strong for Magicka NBs, while still balanced for stamblades.

We'll have to see how this goes in the next month or two.

Agreed, we'll have to see.

I never wanted bolt nerfed. My problem is with infinite shieldspamming with no cost/regen penalty while roll/block got nerfed.
Bolt already had a decent nerf on in 1.6 and you could pretty easily catch them with ambush/crit rush spam while holding block.

You if anyone know I play my sorc alot since I've ran into you in cyro multiple times. Both of us all shielded up shooting lightning around huehue

omfgitsbatman

Can we consolidate the 500 nerf nightblades threads?

Xeven

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Can we consolidate the 500 nerf nightblades threads?

Hey man, I never said nerf nightblade. If all the classes are strong then I get to stroke my ego even more when I faceroll them.

Seriously though, NB have massive advantages in the IC, that's all I'm saying.

OGLezard

and everyone cried about sorcs ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone always ignored the NB

Toomdad

OGLezard wrote: »

and everyone cried about sorcs ROFLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone always ignored the NB

Well that's because we were all cloaked of course.

Lucky28

Iggybot wrote: »

Dark cloak doesn't drop aggro. And detection pots are currently way too powerful. The only thing NBs can do that others can't is pick our battles a little better than others.

For every time a NB can pick a battle and get away with it, there's another fight we get slaughtered because our main defensive skill can be countered by a potion everyone can use.

You have the best CC of any class in the entire game by far. that is also a defensive skill that can't be overlooked and coupling that CC with Cloak is a power combination.

at any rate. i do agree. it would have been fine and still very enjoyable had they not nerfed other classes so hard. but as it stands fighting nightblades in cyrodiil (any instance) in particular is not gonna be any fun and one sided most the time.

with that said: rather than a nerf to NB's not nerfing the other classes would be the vastly better option, imo.

Maulkin

Xael wrote: »

1. Everyone spams AoE. Had you actually played on PTS when it was packed with PvP you would know this.
2. People still run away. Had you actually played on PTS when it was packed with PvP you would know this.
3. Again untrue. I have killed tons of Nightblades in the districts, even some 1vX, specifically good players like Benzy.
4. Aggro happens regardless of class.
5. Completely false. People spam Flare, Caltrops, and use Radiant Magelight. You also have this option. Again, more baseless whining. Also had you actually played on PTS when it was packed with PvP you would know this. 12m is not ***/poor, it stops the stun, it reduces the opener by 50% for you and those near you, it allows you to chase. You also don't need 2 slots, thouhg I do use it on 2 and do just fine. I have upwards of 40 kill streaks on a crappy stam sorc dual slotted with RML. What's your excuse? Oh wait, you don't PvP, let alone on the very PTS you are conjecturing about.

I seriously hope the ZOS team is intelligent enough to distinguish between baseless whining/ranting(threads such as these) and objective facts.

I had an entirely different experience to yours, primarily because of different gaming hours probably.

When I went in there, there were tops 10-15 peple inside IC. Or at least that's how many I could see in the 1 district that showed combat. There were about 5 on each faction. Everybody was scared poopless to drop AoE (never mind caltrops) precisely because of the aggro. In that situation NBs (and I was playing one) had a significant upper hand.

Another observation to make is that no-one had detect pots on their templates so that might have been a contributing factor.

However the thing to remember is IC is pretty big. There are six districts and their sewers. On PTS everyone congregates on one overland district because they are looking for fights to test stuff out. Thus you can get AoE fests for sure and cloak advantage is diminished. And probably you will get AoE fests on the first few weeks as people go in to explore in droves and also the content is open to anyone at start (which certainly won't be the case in later).

However once it's live for awhile people will want to avoid the busy districts to quietly farm tel var stones and vault keys. In those encounters where the total number of combatants involved from all factions were 4-8 and use of AoE was prudent NBs did have a considerable advantage in combat. The terrain suits their escape methods perfectly.

The ability to cloak and effectively stun monsters that were attacking you is a massive bonus. The buildings (much like in open world) provide excellent areas for play with Shadow Image whereas on flat ground that skill offers small value. Once you add many obstacles to hide around, it's the best escape skill in the game bar none.

I guess what I'm saying is that your experience is based on a packed district and that will not be the situation in all districts all the time. When the fights become sparse NB shine because the terrain and the existence of mobs suits them perfectly. If you can't see that then I'm afraid you are wearing no smaller blinkers then the people you bash about QQing with no facts.