Molag Kena.... Was this thought out?

aco5712

The one piece change is welcome. The 2 piece change wasnt necessary, specifically the cost change. The reduce in light attacks just gives it more viability in pve. However, the reducing the extra costs was just not well thought out. In a game where there are no cooldowns and resources are your cooldowns and resources are relatively infinite, your reducing of the cost wasnt justified.... I personally think the cost should go up to 60-75% of the initial cost.....

Judging from what i can achieve with a template build and trying to calculate what my 2.1 live stats would be (dont have all the sets i need), i can (on my khajiit NB):

- sit at 3.3k~ spell damage with the kena buff and major spell power buff
- while maintaining 26-29k max magicka (too much infused on PTS sets lol so lots of variance)
- 1.6k+ magicka and stamina recovery (not complete numbers but this is what im thinking its gonna sit at), 1.3k~ health recovery (ALL UNBUFFED)
- have my concealed weapon cost 1.7k magicka (2.2k with the 33% and does near 7k tooltip)
- while my swallow soul costs 600 (800 with kena while doing 5.5k i think tooltip)

You are just asking for trouble by buffing this set in this way. I shouldnt be able to regen more then i use while maintaining really good damage. Im sure stamina builds can get this damage alot higher with all their wep power buffs and reduce weapon ability costs.

You need to make your abilities cost 1.5x more then base at least to make this set situational and not a buff that i will keep on constantly.

Your just allowing us to have 1.6 damage but first we need to do 2 light attacks to activate it first.

Note: Fix the issue where its making ultimates cost increase aswell or was this intended?

Lowenhigh

I think the cost reduction at this point is an unknown. I am sure there was some thought to why they reduced the cost. Either way, I am sure the 33% cost increase will be felt in PvP unless you get to just sit there and nuke, which hardly ever is the case.

I can't say about PvE for sure. Regardless, I do see this set as almost a requirement for high-end PvE encounters if you're a magicka DPS using a destro staff. I think this set is accurately positioned for that role. I don't see this being superior to healers using Healer set + the new healer-focused 5 piece crafted set (Though I think you can fit it in if you use only 4pc Healer's and craft weapons). After I type that, who knows

DDuke

It's not as powerful as you think it is.


Sitting at approximately 4k weapon damage & 38-40k stamina when I have my gear optimized, this set will result "only" in a 8.94% increase in Surprise Attack damage for 6 seconds at the cost of +33% skill costs.

When fully buffed around 5.5k weapon damage (rough estimates), the benefit from this set will be "only" equal to around +7.5% damage.

Granted, it'll be a bigger boost for builds with lower weapon/spell damage but still...


The sky is not falling.

Quite the opposite, this is a solid, good set now and atleast worth using.

ToRelax

DDuke wrote: »

It's not as powerful as you think it is.


Sitting at approximately 4k weapon damage & 38-40k stamina when I have my gear optimized, this set will result "only" in a 8.94% increase in Surprise Attack damage for 6 seconds at the cost of +33% skill costs.

When fully buffed around 5.5k weapon damage (rough estimates), the benefit from this set will be "only" equal to around +7.5% damage.

Granted, it'll be a bigger boost for builds with lower weapon/spell damage but still...


The sky is not falling.

Quite the opposite, this is a solid, good set now and atleast worth using.

This. I'll certainly try it out, I need more burst, but I doubt it's gonna be OP.

DDuke

Actually, after doing some thinking...

This set requires you to do two consecutive light attacks.

One light attack = one second. Nothing but light attack = 80%~ (varies depending on class/build) less DPS

You do -80% dmg during one second to deal 7.5-10%~ more damage during 6 seconds.


Is it worth using in PvE?

Testing required.


In PvP, I'll probably still use it since PvP is more focused on burst dmg rather than sustain.

olsborg

Well for what its worth it seems pretty OP to me, and it can only be dropped from pve, another joke.

RoyJade

It's even more awesome than before with a werewolf or overload set I think. I will love this set.

Hiero_Glyph

It's a burst DPS set, not a sustained DPS set. The loss in damage from doing two light attacks is negligible when you get bursted down over the next 6 seconds and finished with an execute if you aren't already dead.

Alcast

Lowenhigh wrote: »

I think the cost reduction at this point is an unknown. I am sure there was some thought to why they reduced the cost. Either way, I am sure the 33% cost increase will be felt in PvP unless you get to just sit there and nuke, which hardly ever is the case.

I

no

Yakidafi

RoyJade wrote: »

It's even more awesome than before with a werewolf or overload set I think. I will love this set.

heh, overload light attacks ^^

Ludof

I don't understand why did they nerf Lord Warden and let Molag be so powerfull.

EgoRush

WW is nearly impossible to sustain stamina with as it is, so I'm unsure Morag Kena will work too well with it. Though, for burst options it will of course be ridiculous. I'll have to test that out :P see if I can one-shot howl someone to death.

Kerioko

DDuke wrote: »

It's not as powerful as you think it is.


Sitting at approximately 4k weapon damage & 38-40k stamina when I have my gear optimized, this set will result "only" in a 8.94% increase in Surprise Attack damage for 6 seconds at the cost of +33% skill costs.

Very curious with how you plan on getting 40K stam with 4K weapon damage? Is this including the buff from molag kena?

DDuke

Kerioko wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

It's not as powerful as you think it is.


Sitting at approximately 4k weapon damage & 38-40k stamina when I have my gear optimized, this set will result "only" in a 8.94% increase in Surprise Attack damage for 6 seconds at the cost of +33% skill costs.

Very curious with how you plan on getting 40K stam with 4K weapon damage? Is this including the buff from molag kena?

This is including 800 CPs, 5x Hunding's, 5x Ravager & weapon dmg on jewelry

Just rough estimates, but not far off considering I already get to 3k weapon dmg & 36k stamina unbuffed on Live.
Keep in mind we're working with V16 values here.

I'm still debating whether using Molag Kena or Nerien'eth is better for DPS, it's kind of close.


For PvP, I'll be going 5x Hunding's, 5x Shadow Walker & 2x Molag Kena though

Xsorus

I was thinking 5 shield breaker, 2 molag, 2 shadow walker, 3 agility (sword shield) and masters bow on my dk

Alcast

Does sb know if the WW skills got a 20% cost reduction because it is also kinda a "class skill" line?

Ahzek

@Xsorus drop the masters bow and take a V16 weapon damage on hit enchantment. You will end up with more weapon damage due to the 250ish wep dmg difference between v14 and v16.

Skiserony

I think they're trying to see what happens to it when they buff it like that, just measuring the limits of this set. It could become extremely powerful or for one reason reason not viable. And it's a new monster set, it's gotta be viable.

Xsorus

Ahzek wrote: »

@Xsorus drop the masters bow and take a V16 weapon damage on hit enchantment. You will end up with more weapon damage due to the 250ish wep dmg difference between v14 and v16.

Gotcha, probably agility bow then

Derra

DDuke wrote: »

It's not as powerful as you think it is.


Sitting at approximately 4k weapon damage & 38-40k stamina when I have my gear optimized, this set will result "only" in a 8.94% increase in Surprise Attack damage for 6 seconds at the cost of +33% skill costs.

When fully buffed around 5.5k weapon damage (rough estimates), the benefit from this set will be "only" equal to around +7.5% damage.

Granted, it'll be a bigger boost for builds with lower weapon/spell damage but still...


The sky is not falling.

Quite the opposite, this is a solid, good set now and atleast worth using.

And here i come to agree to 100% with decimus for the first time ever :P

Hiero_Glyph

EgoRush wrote: »

WW is nearly impossible to sustain stamina with as it is, so I'm unsure Morag Kena will work too well with it. Though, for burst options it will of course be ridiculous. I'll have to test that out :P see if I can one-shot howl someone to death.

Use the Shield Breaker set on Werewolf, they won't know what happened. Molag Kena isn't viable though, unless you're just using 1 piece.

olsborg

Please remember tho, that 8% damage increase if your damage is already pretty good, is a strong buff. This set puts every other set to shame and should be brought down in line with the rest of the gear in this game. Here I was, starting to pvp in this game thinking player skill meant most and that itemization helped along the way, not the other way around. Guess I was wrong, very wrong.

DDuke

olsborg wrote: »

Please remember tho, that 8% damage increase if your damage is already pretty good, is a strong buff. This set puts every other set to shame and should be brought down in line with the rest of the gear in this game. Here I was, starting to pvp in this game thinking player skill meant most and that itemization helped along the way, not the other way around. Guess I was wrong, very wrong.

8% increase in dmg is around 1k more on tooltip of Surprise Attack & 800ish (have to check) on Ambush.

Skoria proc is atleast 7k.

Conclusion: this set provides less burst dmg than Skoria.


They nerf this set from this, it'll be as useless as the other new sets (yes, they are almost all bad if you know numbers) and we have another generation of useless gear no one wears in the game.


Even right now, it's debatable whether this set is actually worth using in PvE (depends highly on class/build), and for PvP it probably isn't that good for sustain builds.


Also keep in mind, this is a MMO and gear will always play a huge part in MMO PvP.

Hiero_Glyph

DDuke wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Please remember tho, that 8% damage increase if your damage is already pretty good, is a strong buff. This set puts every other set to shame and should be brought down in line with the rest of the gear in this game. Here I was, starting to pvp in this game thinking player skill meant most and that itemization helped along the way, not the other way around. Guess I was wrong, very wrong.

8% increase in dmg is around 1k more on tooltip of Surprise Attack & 800ish (have to check) on Ambush.

Skoria proc is atleast 7k.

Conclusion: this set provides less burst dmg than Skoria.


They nerf this set from this, it'll be as useless as the other new sets (yes, they are almost all bad if you know numbers) and we have another generation of useless gear no one wears in the game.


Even right now, it's debatable whether this set is actually worth using in PvE (depends highly on class/build), and for PvP it probably isn't that good for sustain builds.


Also keep in mind, this is a MMO and gear will always play a huge part in MMO PvP.

Skoria is an unpredictable RNG proc that may or may not be effective depending on the health of the target. Kena is a 100% controlled effect that can be used exactly when you want to provide instant burst damage to finish an enemy when you need it. Yeah, let's run those numbers again using proc chance and RNG. Also, let's not forget that Skoria only procs on DoTs so not every class can use it easily whereas Kena just requires 2 light attacks and every weapon can do that. Conclusion: Kena needs to be reverted back to 50% increased costs.

DDuke

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Please remember tho, that 8% damage increase if your damage is already pretty good, is a strong buff. This set puts every other set to shame and should be brought down in line with the rest of the gear in this game. Here I was, starting to pvp in this game thinking player skill meant most and that itemization helped along the way, not the other way around. Guess I was wrong, very wrong.

8% increase in dmg is around 1k more on tooltip of Surprise Attack & 800ish (have to check) on Ambush.

Skoria proc is atleast 7k.

Conclusion: this set provides less burst dmg than Skoria.


They nerf this set from this, it'll be as useless as the other new sets (yes, they are almost all bad if you know numbers) and we have another generation of useless gear no one wears in the game.


Even right now, it's debatable whether this set is actually worth using in PvE (depends highly on class/build), and for PvP it probably isn't that good for sustain builds.


Also keep in mind, this is a MMO and gear will always play a huge part in MMO PvP.

Skoria is an unpredictable RNG proc that may or may not be effective depending on the health of the target. Kena is a 100% controlled effect that can be used exactly when you want to provide instant burst damage to finish an enemy when you need it. Yeah, let's run those numbers again using proc chance and RNG. Also, let's not forget that Skoria only procs on DoTs so not every class can use it easily whereas Kena just requires 2 light attacks and every weapon can do that. Conclusion: Kena needs to be reverted back to 50% increased costs.

I'm just saying that some might still prefer Skoria over Kena, which also depends highly on class/build setup.


What exactly is the problem here with Molag Kena? People are so afraid of someone getting 8% more damage (at the cost of 33% skill cost increases) for 6 seconds after two consecutive light attacks after slotting this set?

That's just an added 2-3k burst dmg (for 6 seconds) and goodbye to stamina/magicka if you plan on using it too much.


Furthermore, you can't even proc this set while sneaking & then stack this weapon damage on top of your sneak attack modifier so there goes that.

What exactly makes this set so "OP" and out of the line? Sustain builds will still be running EG, some DKs will still prefer Skoria while someone might want to build for ultimates with Blood Spawn.


What is the big problem?

Hiero_Glyph

I agree that there are reasons to use other sets over Kena, but when ZoS goes out of their way to prevent OHKOs and crazy burst damage and then goes and gives players the means to burst opponent's down again it kind of defeats the purpose. As you noted the effect only lasts for 6 seconds but that is more than enough time to kill someone or to place them entirely on the defensive and prevent them from killing you.

The cost increase is actually irrelevant unless ZoS prevents the insane regen values that are posssible. Besides, Molag Kena is about killing now and recovering (6s) later so at least increasing the cost by 50% forces them to recover for longer (and has zero effect on burst potential).

It's called balance for a reason and both sides need to be controlled. The alternative is to reduce the overall bonus just as they did with the Lord Warden set when they only buffed it once (and nerfed it twice). By comparison Kena got 3 seperate buffs. Again, I'm not saying to nerf Kena but I think ZoS certainly overbuffed it so reverting the cost increase seems good enough to prevent the set from being used by the majority of all builds. We are talking about a 17% cost difference, and all it affects is the recovery period after being used.

Anhedonie

That set is so stupid. 2nd bonus changes are the worst possible.
Just return costs to 50% and make it trigger from 5 nonconsecutive attacks.

DDuke

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

I agree that there are reasons to use other sets over Kena, but when ZoS goes out of their way to prevent OHKOs and crazy burst damage and then goes and gives players the means to burst opponent's down again it kind of defeats the purpose. As you noted the effect only lasts for 6 seconds but that is more than enough time to kill someone or to place them entirely on the defensive and prevent them from killing you.

The cost increase is actually irrelevant unless ZoS prevents the insane regen values that are posssible. Besides, Molag Kena is about killing now and recovering (6s) later so at least increasing the cost by 50% forces them to recover for longer (and has zero effect on burst potential).

It's called balance for a reason and both sides need to be controlled. The alternative is to reduce the overall bonus just as they did with the Lord Warden set when they only buffed it once (and nerfed it twice). By comparison Kena got 3 seperate buffs. Again, I'm not saying to nerf Kena but I think ZoS certainly overbuffed it so reverting the cost increase seems good enough to prevent the set from being used by the majority of all builds. We are talking about a 17% cost difference, and all it affects is the recovery period after being used.

Eh, if you have to hit your opponent with two consecutive light attacks and then line up burst for him, that's hardly a "OHKO". You can't even proc this set in stealth, where most damage comes from for stamina builds.

This set does not give any more damage (8-10%) than a Ravager proc would, and you're acting as if the set bonus instead said "kill your opponent".

Guess what, after this set procs you can simply roll dodge those hits and your opponent is going to spend a crap ton of resources on nothing.

Also, this set on a regen heavy build is not going to do what you're afraid it's going to do. Regen heavy builds tend to hit like wet noodles, especially on PTS with the Battle Spirit changes. So yes, the +33% cost increase is a big deal and almost a deal breaker for PvE, where you'd look to use this set over a long duration.

Before the 2-set bonus got buffed, I wasn't even going to use it.

I was going 1x Blood Spawn 1x Molag Kena because that was in all simplicity the better way to go.
1-set bonus>2-set bonus, as if that makes any sense...


Now that they buffed it and it's worth using in both PvE & PvP, people want to nerf it?

Seriously, I think they should implement a new forum rule: if you don't know how to theorycraft, you shouldn't be commenting sets & set bonuses, period.

Hiero_Glyph

DDuke wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

I agree that there are reasons to use other sets over Kena, but when ZoS goes out of their way to prevent OHKOs and crazy burst damage and then goes and gives players the means to burst opponent's down again it kind of defeats the purpose. As you noted the effect only lasts for 6 seconds but that is more than enough time to kill someone or to place them entirely on the defensive and prevent them from killing you.

The cost increase is actually irrelevant unless ZoS prevents the insane regen values that are posssible. Besides, Molag Kena is about killing now and recovering (6s) later so at least increasing the cost by 50% forces them to recover for longer (and has zero effect on burst potential).

It's called balance for a reason and both sides need to be controlled. The alternative is to reduce the overall bonus just as they did with the Lord Warden set when they only buffed it once (and nerfed it twice). By comparison Kena got 3 seperate buffs. Again, I'm not saying to nerf Kena but I think ZoS certainly overbuffed it so reverting the cost increase seems good enough to prevent the set from being used by the majority of all builds. We are talking about a 17% cost difference, and all it affects is the recovery period after being used.

Eh, if you have to hit your opponent with two consecutive light attacks and then line up burst for him, that's hardly a "OHKO". You can't even proc this set in stealth, where most damage comes from for stamina builds.

This set does not give any more damage (8-10%) than a Ravager proc would, and you're acting as if the set bonus instead said "kill your opponent".

Guess what, after this set procs you can simply roll dodge those hits and your opponent is going to spend a crap ton of resources on nothing.

Also, this set on a regen heavy build is not going to do what you're afraid it's going to do. Regen heavy builds tend to hit like wet noodles, especially on PTS with the Battle Spirit changes. So yes, the +33% cost increase is a big deal and almost a deal breaker for PvE, where you'd look to use this set over a long duration.

Before the 2-set bonus got buffed, I wasn't even going to use it.

I was going 1x Blood Spawn 1x Molag Kena because that was in all simplicity the better way to go.
1-set bonus>2-set bonus, as if that makes any sense...


Now that they buffed it and it's worth using in both PvE & PvP, people want to nerf it?

Seriously, I think they should implement a new forum rule: if you don't know how to theorycraft, you shouldn't be commenting sets & set bonuses, period.

I never associated Molag Kena with OHKOs, only noted that ZoS went out of their way to remove them along with burst DPS. If you actually read what I wrote I associate burst DPS with Molag Kena, and never refer to OHKOs other than mentioning it with ZoS' intentions with 1.7. Sorry for your confusion.

Back on topic, if my opponent dodge rolls for 6s I'll just CC them and insta-win. Anyway, the damage increase isn't over the top but for spell damage it is certainly worth 5 separate spell damage bonuses which is more than most players use in total. While compared to the total spell damage this may be minor, but when compared to other spell damage bonuses this will be over a +100% increase (often accounting for a 25%+ increase in total spell damage). Weapon damage is already pretty easy to stack so you are right that the bonus will be far less for stamina builds but a 10% damage buff is still significant on its own.

Lastly, no one runs a massivie regen build and expects to deal lots of damage but you can always have enough regen to sustain and use Kena to provide additional burst damage and still manage your resources well enough. The point is that you should have to recover after actiating Kena. If you opponent is not dead already then you should be at a slight disadvantage. If your damage is lower and your regen higher, then you can maintain the bonus for longer. Again, it's about balance not making it the preferred 2-piece set.

Let's see how it plays out on the PTS but it's better to buff it later than to nerf it after players have spent time farming for it. As such I'd rather see it released at 50% and later changed to 33% if ZoS feels it is still too weak but let them gather some data when other sets and builds are in play, not in a controlled environment like PTS where everyone has v16 characters and gear.

EDIT: As for your final comment I think having a difference of opinion is good as it leads to new ways of thinking (hopefully for all parties involved). Do you really think that I am an uneducated individual that is lacking in theoretical and/or applied practices? Think before you speak (or write in this case).

DDuke

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

I agree that there are reasons to use other sets over Kena, but when ZoS goes out of their way to prevent OHKOs and crazy burst damage and then goes and gives players the means to burst opponent's down again it kind of defeats the purpose. As you noted the effect only lasts for 6 seconds but that is more than enough time to kill someone or to place them entirely on the defensive and prevent them from killing you.

The cost increase is actually irrelevant unless ZoS prevents the insane regen values that are posssible. Besides, Molag Kena is about killing now and recovering (6s) later so at least increasing the cost by 50% forces them to recover for longer (and has zero effect on burst potential).

It's called balance for a reason and both sides need to be controlled. The alternative is to reduce the overall bonus just as they did with the Lord Warden set when they only buffed it once (and nerfed it twice). By comparison Kena got 3 seperate buffs. Again, I'm not saying to nerf Kena but I think ZoS certainly overbuffed it so reverting the cost increase seems good enough to prevent the set from being used by the majority of all builds. We are talking about a 17% cost difference, and all it affects is the recovery period after being used.

Eh, if you have to hit your opponent with two consecutive light attacks and then line up burst for him, that's hardly a "OHKO". You can't even proc this set in stealth, where most damage comes from for stamina builds.

This set does not give any more damage (8-10%) than a Ravager proc would, and you're acting as if the set bonus instead said "kill your opponent".

Guess what, after this set procs you can simply roll dodge those hits and your opponent is going to spend a crap ton of resources on nothing.

Also, this set on a regen heavy build is not going to do what you're afraid it's going to do. Regen heavy builds tend to hit like wet noodles, especially on PTS with the Battle Spirit changes. So yes, the +33% cost increase is a big deal and almost a deal breaker for PvE, where you'd look to use this set over a long duration.

Before the 2-set bonus got buffed, I wasn't even going to use it.

I was going 1x Blood Spawn 1x Molag Kena because that was in all simplicity the better way to go.
1-set bonus>2-set bonus, as if that makes any sense...


Now that they buffed it and it's worth using in both PvE & PvP, people want to nerf it?

Seriously, I think they should implement a new forum rule: if you don't know how to theorycraft, you shouldn't be commenting sets & set bonuses, period.

I never associated Molag Kena with OHKOs, only noted that ZoS went out of their way to remove them along with burst DPS. If you actually read what I wrote I associate burst DPS with Molag Kena, and never refer to OHKOs other than mentioning it with ZoS' intentions with 1.7. Sorry for your confusion.

Back on topic, if my opponent dodge rolls for 6s I'll just CC them and insta-win. Anyway, the damage increase isn't over the top but for spell damage it is certainly worth 5 separate spell damage bonuses which is more than most players use in total. While compared to the total spell damage this may be minor, but when compared to other spell damage bonuses this will be over a +100% increase (often accounting for a 25%+ increase in total spell damage). Weapon damage is already pretty easy to stack so you are right that the bonus will be far less for stamina builds but a 10% damage buff is still significant on its own.

Lastly, no one runs a massivie regen build and expects to deal lots of damage but you can always have enough regen to sustain and use Kena to provide additional burst damage and still manage your resources well enough. The point is that you should have to recover after actiating Kena. If you opponent is not dead already then you should be at a slight disadvantage. If your damage is lower and your regen higher, then you can maintain the bonus for longer. Again, it's about balance not making it the preferred 2-piece set.

Let's see how it plays out on the PTS but it's better to buff it later than to nerf it after players have spent time farming for it. As such I'd rather see it released at 50% and later changed to 33% if ZoS feels it is still too weak but let them gather some data when other sets and builds are in play, not in a controlled environment like PTS where everyone has v16 characters and gear.

EDIT: As for your final comment I think having a difference of opinion is good as it leads to new ways of thinking (hopefully for all parties involved). Do you really think that I am an uneducated individual that is lacking in theoretical and/or applied practices? Think before you speak (or write in this case).

But you forget, that set isn't making any sustain build "OP", it's making them deal pretty much as much damage as a normal dmg build would (no one shots), but it also takes some of that sustain away.

It's like +-0, and you have to activate it with two consecutive light attacks as well (can be played around).

Just using Surprise Attack for instance would cost you around 400 more stamina, while Ambush would cost you around 700 more. Just using skills at cooldown will have an effect equal to -800~ regen (for 700 weapon dmg), depending on your class & build.


And yes, we'll see on PTS how this will play out (though after running the numbers I have a good idea already).

Lastly, how many utterly useless sets have passed on from PTS that they have made useful later on? I haven't kept count, but one thing is sure: ZOS does not have a very good track record when it comes to these (i.e. all trial sets).

I am not saying you are uneducated, that is your own conclusion. What I am saying is that if you think this set is "OP", then you haven't done any theorycrafting on it yet. It is fairly balanced as it is from numbers perspective.

If anything, some of the other Undaunted sets are too weak: Mephala, Daedroth set definitely need buffs & Blood Spawn 2 piece could use slight buffing.

Trial sets could use huge buffing, same as every medium armour set coming from next patch (they are all useless and I can prove this with math and by having seen how the procs of certain sets function).

Hiero_Glyph

I'll be honest, I'm more interested to see how it works with things like Grim Focus and Overload. I'm sure there will be several other abilities that can properly exploit Kena's bonus. Again, balance is a delicate thing because it has to account for so many different factors. I hear you about ZoS' lack of changes though, I play a Templar often enough to know how limited their efforts can be. I guess we'll know soon enough what they plan to do.