Revert all the combat changes plz

cmabouaf

Zenimax, you guys need to learn to just fix the broken **** in the game instead of making a whole new game. Imperial City combat is so bad. Almost every single person I've talked to on the PTS thinks the upcoming changes are awful. I made a practically unkillable build without even using the reactive set and everyone hits for nothing. Seriously, just revert the changes, its really bad.

Armitas

More details would be helpful.

Aimelin

At times like this I really miss that lol button

cmabouaf

Armitas wrote: »

More details would be helpful.

im too lazy to even type out what is broken with the game because there is too much. Its not like Zenimax even considers our feedback nor plays their own game.

Valrien

cmabouaf wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

More details would be helpful.

im too lazy to even type out what is broken with the game because there is too much. Its not like Zenimax even considers our feedback nor plays their own game.

Heh, it's like those facebook posts everyone hates.

"OMG, my life sucks SO much!"

"What's wrong?"

"I don't want to talk about it."

Dracane

Valrien wrote: »

Heh, it's like those facebook posts everyone hates.

"OMG, my life sucks SO much!"

"What's wrong?"

"I don't want to talk about it."

This is always amusing indeed. All the suicidal men and women on my list, posting that everything is bad, but they don't explain why. ???

Ryuho

@Dracane haha

Ppls dont like to be forced to adjust to new scheme.. but its a mmo, which wont be ever constant, changes included.. deal with it.. combat is fine imo..

GreenSoup2HoT

Un-killable build just because all damage mitigation is messed up. I agree though, pts is just an experiment.

SRIBES

Lemur, I agree with you to some extent but block, roll dodge, and damage shields needed a nerf. ZOS isn't going to revert all the changes back no matter what at this point. Reactive armor set and other passives like vampire passive and other forms of damage mitigation are stacking with the 50% damage mitigation buff in a way they shouldn't. It's like how healing ward and biting jabs along with other skills were better than they should have been, so if ZoS can fix that things should be better. -Sribes

Rune_Relic

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Lemur, I agree with you to some extent but block, roll dodge, and damage shields needed a nerf. ZOS isn't going to revert all the changes back no matter what at this point. Reactive armor set and other passives like vampire passive and other forms of damage mitigation are stacking with the 50% damage mitigation buff in a way they shouldn't. It's like how healing ward and biting jabs along with other skills were better than they should have been, so if ZoS can fix that things should be better. -Sribes

And what does ALL past experience say about this ?
I don't expect to see a fully working game before release.
So its more a question of how bad the bugs are going to be that are ignored for another 6 months.
And if they will be tolerated.
And which of the absolutely game breaking ones will be reserved for certain guild use.

Master_Kas

I started liking it , thinking it was decent. Until I played a while

(on all classes, both magicka and stam)

No it's not because I cannot permaroll or instagib, I'm working on a pretty decent build for this update.

But the combat is a bit boring, and alot of skills and effects got messed up.

cmabouaf

Master_Kas wrote: »

I started liking it , thinking it was decent. Until I played a while

(on all classes, both magicka and stam)

No it's not because I cannot permaroll or instagib, I'm working on a pretty decent build for this update.

But the combat is a bit boring, and alot of skills and effects got messed up.

exactly. Boring is the key word here, its not even alot of work to stay alive like it used to be, or to always have to be on guard in case of a ganker. To be honest, i enjoyed the gankers because it kept me on my guard while in open world, now its like i just run out into battle not even blocking, not even scared that i may die.

Ezareth

cmabouaf wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

I started liking it , thinking it was decent. Until I played a while

(on all classes, both magicka and stam)

No it's not because I cannot permaroll or instagib, I'm working on a pretty decent build for this update.

But the combat is a bit boring, and alot of skills and effects got messed up.

exactly. Boring is the key word here, its not even alot of work to stay alive like it used to be, or to always have to be on guard in case of a ganker. To be honest, i enjoyed the gankers because it kept me on my guard while in open world, now its like i just run out into battle not even blocking, not even scared that i may die.

Yeah pretty much how I feel so far as well.

Most boring combat I've ever played in this game out of any patch. I can only stand to play on PTS for about 30-45 minutes before I'm ready to nod off. The changes to block and dodge roll made reactive defenses useless. Now it's just about exploiting whatever passive defenses you can along with LoS while maxing your highest damage ability and mashing it ad nauesum.

They need to do something....at very least delay the release until this crap is sorted out.

cmabouaf

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Lemur, I agree with you to some extent but block, roll dodge, and damage shields needed a nerf. ZOS isn't going to revert all the changes back no matter what at this point. Reactive armor set and other passives like vampire passive and other forms of damage mitigation are stacking with the 50% damage mitigation buff in a way they shouldn't. It's like how healing ward and biting jabs along with other skills were better than they should have been, so if ZoS can fix that things should be better. -Sribes

they couldve just made sorcs magika shields go based on their max health, they couldve nerfed radiant destruction, they couldve just taken away block casting, they couldve reduced stealth dmg. The way zenimax fixes things fails. Nerfing weapon penetration at the same time as reducing dmg in cyrodiil by 50% is like a double wammy though, it went from people insta killing to people becoming invinicible. Zenimax needs to just nerf 1 thing at a time, and not do these overall nerfs.

Dracane

cmabouaf wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Lemur, I agree with you to some extent but block, roll dodge, and damage shields needed a nerf. ZOS isn't going to revert all the changes back no matter what at this point. Reactive armor set and other passives like vampire passive and other forms of damage mitigation are stacking with the 50% damage mitigation buff in a way they shouldn't. It's like how healing ward and biting jabs along with other skills were better than they should have been, so if ZoS can fix that things should be better. -Sribes

they couldve just made sorcs magika shields go based on their max health, they couldve nerfed radiant destruction, they couldve just taken away block casting, they couldve reduced stealth dmg. The way zenimax fixes things fails. Nerfing weapon penetration at the same time as reducing dmg in cyrodiil by 50% is like a double wammy though, it went from people insta killing to people becoming invinicible. Zenimax needs to just nerf 1 thing at a time, and not do these overall nerfs.

Woa so sick of reading this non sense.
No offense to you but this statement is the tumor of the last few weeks and way too many people are convinced it would be good this way.

cmabouaf

Ezareth wrote: »

cmabouaf wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

I started liking it , thinking it was decent. Until I played a while

(on all classes, both magicka and stam)

No it's not because I cannot permaroll or instagib, I'm working on a pretty decent build for this update.

But the combat is a bit boring, and alot of skills and effects got messed up.

exactly. Boring is the key word here, its not even alot of work to stay alive like it used to be, or to always have to be on guard in case of a ganker. To be honest, i enjoyed the gankers because it kept me on my guard while in open world, now its like i just run out into battle not even blocking, not even scared that i may die.

Yeah pretty much how I feel so far as well.

Most boring combat I've ever played in this game out of any patch. I can only stand to play on PTS for about 30-45 minutes before I'm ready to nod off. The changes to block and dodge roll made reactive defenses useless. Now it's just about exploiting whatever passive defenses you can along with LoS while maxing your highest damage ability and mashing it ad nauesum.

They need to do something....at very least delay the release until this crap is sorted out.

i feel the same way. All i do is stack damage mitigation in IC, and spam wrecking blow. This games skill requirement is not much higher than runescape now.

Sentinel

Maybe they need to fix the ways people get such high mitigation, but reverting the damage reduction would be a bad move. On the PTS, using new gear, I can get a buffed tooltip surprise attack for 9k. If that was live, I could 2 shot most people and get away before they could even do anything at all.

People will adapt and start to gain higher damage on the PTS sooner or later. v16 gear with glyphs contributes quite a bit, more than I ever actually thought it would. And if I need to be clearer, yes I am defending the changes to combat they made.

cmabouaf

Dracane wrote: »

cmabouaf wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Lemur, I agree with you to some extent but block, roll dodge, and damage shields needed a nerf. ZOS isn't going to revert all the changes back no matter what at this point. Reactive armor set and other passives like vampire passive and other forms of damage mitigation are stacking with the 50% damage mitigation buff in a way they shouldn't. It's like how healing ward and biting jabs along with other skills were better than they should have been, so if ZoS can fix that things should be better. -Sribes

they couldve just made sorcs magika shields go based on their max health, they couldve nerfed radiant destruction, they couldve just taken away block casting, they couldve reduced stealth dmg. The way zenimax fixes things fails. Nerfing weapon penetration at the same time as reducing dmg in cyrodiil by 50% is like a double wammy though, it went from people insta killing to people becoming invinicible. Zenimax needs to just nerf 1 thing at a time, and not do these overall nerfs.

Woa so sick of reading this non sense.
No offense to you but this statement is the tumor of the last few weeks and way too many people are convinced it would be good this way.

And why do you think it wouldn't be good this way? Im sure the zenimax team didnt even try different alternatives.

Dracane

cmabouaf wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

cmabouaf wrote: »

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Lemur, I agree with you to some extent but block, roll dodge, and damage shields needed a nerf. ZOS isn't going to revert all the changes back no matter what at this point. Reactive armor set and other passives like vampire passive and other forms of damage mitigation are stacking with the 50% damage mitigation buff in a way they shouldn't. It's like how healing ward and biting jabs along with other skills were better than they should have been, so if ZoS can fix that things should be better. -Sribes

they couldve just made sorcs magika shields go based on their max health, they couldve nerfed radiant destruction, they couldve just taken away block casting, they couldve reduced stealth dmg. The way zenimax fixes things fails. Nerfing weapon penetration at the same time as reducing dmg in cyrodiil by 50% is like a double wammy though, it went from people insta killing to people becoming invinicible. Zenimax needs to just nerf 1 thing at a time, and not do these overall nerfs.

Woa so sick of reading this non sense.
No offense to you but this statement is the tumor of the last few weeks and way too many people are convinced it would be good this way.

And why do you think it wouldn't be good this way? Im sure the zenimax team didnt even try different alternatives.

This is not the concept of the Sorcerer ward, it fullfills a completely different role than Sun shield and igneous shield.
You can't make it scale of health. And again, Hardened Ward is not the main reason why Sorcerers shield stack is good, it's healing ward. But come on, let's not talk about this again -.- I think this was mention often enough to make clear, that healing ward makes shield stacking ridiculous, not any other ward.

cmabouaf

Sentinel wrote: »

Maybe they need to fix the ways people get such high mitigation, but reverting the damage reduction would be a bad move. On the PTS, using new gear, I can get a buffed tooltip surprise attack for 9k. If that was live, I could 2 shot most people and get away before they could even do anything at all.

People will adapt and start to gain higher damage on the PTS sooner or later. v16 gear with glyphs contributes quite a bit, more than I ever actually thought it would. And if I need to be clearer, yes I am defending the changes to combat they made.

except you forget that penetration is now nerfed, so you wouldnt be able to hit that live. The dmg nerf has made everyone stack dmg and damage mitigation rather than come out with a balanced build for survivability and dmg. They either needed to nerf penetration or nerf overall dmg, not both.

Sentinel

cmabouaf wrote: »

Sentinel wrote: »

Maybe they need to fix the ways people get such high mitigation, but reverting the damage reduction would be a bad move. On the PTS, using new gear, I can get a buffed tooltip surprise attack for 9k. If that was live, I could 2 shot most people and get away before they could even do anything at all.

People will adapt and start to gain higher damage on the PTS sooner or later. v16 gear with glyphs contributes quite a bit, more than I ever actually thought it would. And if I need to be clearer, yes I am defending the changes to combat they made.

except you forget that penetration is now nerfed, so you wouldnt be able to hit that live. The dmg nerf has made everyone stack dmg and damage mitigation rather than come out with a balanced build for survivability and dmg. They either needed to nerf penetration or nerf overall dmg, not both.

I talked to someone I dueled, and I hit them for 8k anyways. If we revert the changes, what we will end up with is a lower TTK than before. I agree they should look at their numbers at ZOS for the mitigation and other forms of perma-defense, but overall, I think pvp is in a much better place now than in 1.6.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Oh another QQ thread about how some one doesn't like the damage changes in AvA this is what ? The 20th one?

Joy_Division

Yes, ZoS. Please go back to 1.6 even though the ESO community told you loud and clear that damage was too high and perma-dodge rolling was too easy to abuse.

Xeniph

Joy_Division wrote: »

Yes, ZoS. Please go back to 1.6 even though the ESO community told you loud and clear that damage was too high and perma-dodge rolling was too easy to abuse.

Not all of the community complained. Mostly just the old, sick and lame (aka casuals)

I personally loved the damage I dished out and took. It could actually be challenging at times. Update 7 is a mess in it's current form.

Xsorus

All they needed to do is add soft caps back in on 1.6 and they would of fixed a lot of issues

ScruffyWhiskers

Joy_Division wrote: »

Yes, ZoS. Please go back to 1.6 even though the ESO community told you loud and clear that damage was too high and perma-dodge rolling was too easy to abuse.

Claims that the ESO community unanimously wanted this are surely exaggerated. It was loud I will grant you that.

Contrary to all the hand wringing TTK wasn't really that bad for most players. What was bad was a litany of issues like bad builds, bad play styles, YOLO fueled dreams of Rambo wannabees, and some design flaws in some skills that should have been addressed. Instead of addressing the individual broken mechanics the designers chose to just turn the Battle Spirit dial up to 50%.

What we have now is no where near as fun as the current live version as far as combat goes. I've kept telling myself that I survived the transition to 1.6 so I should be able to weather this. But I'm not so certain now. I think I can come up with some builds that will be competitive but they definitely won't be as enjoyable. TTK is like watching a bridge rust right now and that's not fun. The big issue for me is that If you make a mistake in combat you are not punished like you were before. The dial needs to go back a ways. I really hope that they at least experiment a little with it in the next pts update.

Wing

Xsorus wrote: »

All they needed to do is add soft caps back in on 1.6 and they would of fixed a lot of issues

this, the game was not designed to have the infinite resources that 1.6 gave it. that and the softcaps supported a much wider diversity of builds.

SRIBES

Xsorus wrote: »

All they needed to do is add soft caps back in on 1.6 and they would of fixed a lot of issues

Tbh wish I could hit agree more only other thing is they should have made damage shields crit also

Waylander

Hearing this makes me sad.

I've had difficulty with system stability (in both live but especially in PTS).

It feels to me like ZOS applies a band-aid solution, which then creates unforeseen issues that require their own band-aid solutions.

What happened to making regular small tweaks to balance things and then monitoring?

It strikes me that ZOS could roll out regular minor tweaks/balance changes (say fortnightly with maintenance). 15-20 or so updates a year where they made a few changes each maintenance night for things such as 'reduced base dmg of x ability by 5%' and fixed any known bugs/exploits that they can would mean a lot less radical changes or bandaid solutions.

IC feels pretty make or break for a lot of my guild.

Xsorus

Wing wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

All they needed to do is add soft caps back in on 1.6 and they would of fixed a lot of issues

this, the game was not designed to have the infinite resources that 1.6 gave it. that and the softcaps supported a much wider diversity of builds.

Take Daoc for instances with it's hard caps, if they were removed it would of caused countless problems, soft caps insure you don't get stat overload in game mechanics like resource recovery, mitigation or damage

OGLezard

@Aimelin use this as much as you want I made it after they removed our lol button.

http://i.imgur.com/6nqQ1FL.jpg