Tanking Just got real and here's why it should stay! (Reactive Armour Set / CC-Burst Build Counter)

GreenSoup2HoT

Right now there is a lot of controversy over this new set that grant's damage mitigration.

With this set you can obtain 100% damage mitigation regardless of the cryodil de-buff. I will show you how to do this and how to counter this. This make's Tank's completely viable and add's much more to Pvp.

How to achieve this.

Required:
-Wear Heavy Armour (Self explanatory)
-Reactive Armour Set (35% mitigation while CC'd)
-Champion point's for more Armour/Resist

Class Ultimate's for damage reduction

DK
-Standard of Might (30% Mitigation on caster)

NB
-Bolstering Darkness (60% Mitigation on caster / 30% On allies) [Needed for any other class to achieve i think]

-Cryodil Damage Debuff (The real problem)

The Cyrodil debuff "should not matter". If you have 0% damage reducing from the Cryodil debuff, you can still achieve 100% damage mitigation with this Armour set/champion point's/heavy Armour passive's and bolstering darkness.

With the 50% damage mitigation debuff in pts, it will defiantly feel like you do mediocre damage against the Reactive Armour Set / Heavy Armour and champion point's without the ultimate's while they are stunned. It is with the ultimate's that make this setup shine.

However, if the cryodil de-buff is being added with all of your other damage mitigation percentage's, then the way value's are added is broken! Not the set! The way damage mitigation value's are being added with the cryodil de-buff should not happen.

I don't want to see a bunch of Youtuber's/Streamer's claim this is OP when they are using CC/Burst heavy build's. This set counter's them and is a great addition into the game. If there is an issue with the value's for damage mitigation being added with the cryodil de-buff, this is the problem. Not the set but the way the value's are totaled.

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Currently it is only possible to have 100% damage mitigation as a nightblade with bolstering darkness solo. However the nb need's to be CC'd to achieve this.

If a NB and DK teamed as a Duo they both could achieve 100% damage mitigation if they both use there Ult's at the same time. (While CC'D!)

This is only achievable during the duration of these Ultimate's (while CC'd) , especially Bolstering Darkness for other classes (team oriented mitigation buff). This is load's of fun and bring's life into Pvp.

It is only under these special circumstance's that this is possible, this add's a layer of mechanic's required to make combat more interesting. A layer player's will have to take into consideration when fighting a Tank player who has this build setup.

Two tank's should be rewarded by utilizing both ultimate's together with good coordination. "A great defense is a good offence". Read below if you need counter's.
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How to counter this for all you burst build's who cannot kill them.

1: Do NOT CC THEM
2: Wait for the Ultimate to Expire OR Back up! Make them walk out of there Ultimate.
2: Heavy single Target Damage with no CC attached / DoT's
-This build the tank's are using is pretty weak damage wise. You could ignore them and kill the dps. ( If you don't want to ignore then, read over 1 2 and 3 )

The 100% mitigation is only possible if they are CC'd and Inside those 2 specific Ultimate's (Bolstering Darkness if Solo and stunned work's as well).
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Change's i would make to the set:

-Remove all CC's from the set that still allow you to attack.

You could potentially gain 100% damage mitigation if you are rooted by Talon's (DK skill) while under Bolstering Darkness and still attack. This is to much power. I'm fine with 100% damage mitigation but rendered un-able to do anything as the trade off.
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This make's Tank's so fun to play! So what they are hard to kill, LEARN TO PLAY. You gotta change your play style's. Learn new tactic's.

WELCOME TO THE NEW TANK META BOY'S!

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_RichLambert , @ZOS_BrianWheeler

-Please show Eric, this set allow's tank's to be tank's. On the other side you still die very often. This set is hardly overpowered. You can sustain yes but this doesn't mean you can kill. This ruin's 1vX but i don't think that is what Eso Pvp is about. Playing with friend's/group's and utilizing your role to the fullest (tank/dps/healer).

Please do not change this set. You have done something well, just because it counter's certain 1vX build's does not mean it should be nerfed.

It come's to my intention it is not the set that is broken but rather the way damage mitigation value's are being added in the pts. Once the cryodil De-buff is kicked out of the equation this build is completely viable.
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Forestd16b14_ESO

You can use that I'll be using my new set up of song of the lamae and oblivions foe along with new vr 16 greatsword.

Auricle

That Reactive set is crazy good on the PTS. It's probably going to get nerfed a bit before launch. A cool idea, but it seems to be making people near invincible.

Personofsecrets

Why does this set give stamina recovery?

aco5712

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Why does this set give stamina recovery?

in case you want to actually break CC? idk xD

david.haypreub18_ESO

So tanks have to grind for gear to be viable now?

Sounds fun.

GreenSoup2HoT

Auricle wrote: »

That Reactive set is crazy good on the PTS. It's probably going to get nerfed a bit before launch. A cool idea, but it seems to be making people near invincible.

You are 100% invincible while stunned under those ultimate's i talked about. However it can be countered and is amazing.

aco5712

DK standard is 20% less damage unless it was buffed. Tbh those ultis cost alot. Templar with their sweep that gives like 20% damage redux is probs the best combo for this set coz its so cheap

GreenSoup2HoT

aco5712 wrote: »

DK standard is 20% less damage unless it was buffed. Tbh those ultis cost alot. Templar with their sweep that gives like 20% damage redux is probs the best combo for this set coz its so cheap

Very true, you could gain 30% within the bolstering darkness and use Sweep. Tanking just got interesting!

The ultimate's cost a lot but the duration is very long, which give's you plenty of time to deal damage, gain ultimate , DoT and heal from inside the radius during the intense mitigation.

Many combo's may be out there that i haven't listed. If you know of any other skill's that reduce damage please list them. I play a stamina nb dps, so i don't know of many other skill's that have damage reduction.

GreenSoup2HoT

aco5712 wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Why does this set give stamina recovery?

in case you want to actually break CC? idk xD

No need to CC break with the damage mitigation, save it for heal's or stamina based ability's.

Scyantific

Time to slap this baby on and troll me some bananas!

silky_soft

Much easier if just equip 1h/shield with passives and bash+light attack till they got no stam. Make sure you have a key set for bash so that you don't get hit by the no stam regen on block.

GreenSoup2HoT

silky_soft wrote: »

Much easier if just equip 1h/shield with passives and bash+light attack till they got no stam. Make sure you have a key set for bash so that you don't get hit by the no stam regen on block.

Till who get's no stam? Is your idea to counter this build?

Naphariel

You mean damage reduction stacks additively instead of multiplicatively?
Does that actually make sense to anyone?

actosh

Talons count as immobilize?
Sorc Root as well?

Tankqull

Naphariel wrote: »

You mean damage reduction stacks additively instead of multiplicatively?
Does that actually make sense to anyone?

probabbly the devs do so, as the recent issues with shields elucidate...

timidobserver

I am okay with this set staying as is. I am tired of NB fear being an iwin button. If someone wants to sacrifice 5 pieces of gear to gain some added defense against CCs, I am okay with it. Though I imagine that the fear spammers will scream until they reduce it from 35% to 5%.

GreenSoup2HoT

actosh wrote: »

Talons count as immobilize?
Sorc Root as well?

Yes

timidobserver wrote: »

I am okay with this set staying as is. I am tired of NB fear being an iwin button. If someone wants to sacrifice 5 pieces of gear to gain some added defense against CCs, I am okay with it. Though I imagine that the fear spammers will scream until they reduce it from 35% to 5%.

Great point. Of course dps player's will try to get this reduced. Most dps play cookie cutter build's that relie on CC with huge burst's to kill.

Naphariel wrote: »

You mean damage reduction stacks additively instead of multiplicatively?
Does that actually make sense to anyone?

I'm not really sure how damage mitigation is totaled up. I never said damage reduction was either of your suggestion's though. I just know when you total your damage mitigation to 100% you get hit by 0's.

If damage mitigation was additive, it would be possible to achieve 100% damage mitigation from just the cryodil de-buff and bolstering darkness / mist form alone.

I believe the damage reduction from the cryodil de-buff just cut's your damage in half and then is cut out of the equation. If the Cryodil buff is not cut out of the equation then the set is undoubtedly BROKEN. Which should get fixed up. However the set should not change, just the way the value's are totaled.

Bolstering Darkness 60% (12 second duration)
Reactive Armour Set 35% (while cc'd)
The other 5% can be made up off your Heavy Armour and Champion Point's.

Above is still a viable way of achieving 100% damage mitigation without the cryodil de-buff and should stay because it is very hard to pull.
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In my opinion i think this is fine. Now a Nb tank can save a little stamina from CC breaking if Bolstering Darkness is under their feet and not worry about death.

If your just pounding away at this guy wasting all your resource on him that's your fault. You could of used that time to buff up / etc.

Dracane

I hope there are signs, that this set procced.
If I CC someone and don't even know he is wearing this set, I will just stupidly CC him anyway
Heavy armor tanks barely take damage from me, I probably won't recognize this 35% mitigation on my own.

However, this set is extreeemly strong. Snares, Knockdown, Root and everything counts as CC. This is going to be glorious against Nightblades with all their CCs and Fear snare and against Sorcerer who can't kill people without the Crystal Shard knockdown. Both classes will have their burst rotations disturbed by this set.
I think, this set gives tanks a strong utility, especially when combined with what OP said, also there are means to get another 8% mitigation. For example with ring of protection.

When I saw '35%' damage reduction first, I knew this seems too much. They might reduce it a bit

Jar_Ek

So it's great for NB, DK, and Templars tanks because they all have damage mitigation ultimates... only sorcerers are left out of the party with a measly 8% mitigation. And people wonder why sorcerers shield stack...

F7sus4

While Red Rose is a bit old-fashioned, the Black Rose seems to be interesting.

actosh

Reactive is ok for pvp. While u r cc ed u cant deal dmg. Ok u can when u r rooted.
Good thing is it saves your stam since u wont break free.

olsborg

Dracane wrote: »

When I saw '35%' damage reduction first, I knew this seems too much. They might reduce it a bit

They should reduce it quite abit, I mean, light of cyrodiil used to have 30% damage reduction while casting, but they lowered it to 25%. Why are these 2 sets treated so differently. *disgruntled*

actosh

If u go heavy and use this 5piece set u wont be a big threat to others i assume. But it would be fun to have a Char wearin this and play juggernautstyle ^^.

If u want to maximize the mitigation: go templar, be nord, push armor to 32500.

Bad thing is it comes with Impen when u buy it from the vendor. U can get it with other traits if u buy tjose boxes according to the devs.

In theiry it can be fun but need to test on pts.

GreenSoup2HoT

olsborg wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

When I saw '35%' damage reduction first, I knew this seems too much. They might reduce it a bit

They should reduce it quite abit, I mean, light of cyrodiil used to have 30% damage reduction while casting, but they lowered it to 25%. Why are these 2 sets treated so differently. *disgruntled*

Cryodil's Light set is a Light Armour Set. This is a HEAVY set. It should have a bigger value. Don't forget this reduction only happen's while CC'd.

I'm fine with Tank's not having to CC break with this set on. You just need to learn how to counter it.

AhPook_Is_Here

Naphariel wrote: »

You mean damage reduction stacks additively instead of multiplicatively?
Does that actually make sense to anyone?

You know that old additive property of multiplication? It really works IRL!

GreenSoup2HoT

actosh wrote: »

Reactive is ok for pvp. While u r cc ed u cant deal dmg. Ok u can when u r rooted.
Good thing is it saves your stam since u wont break free.

Since you can attack while rooted with this set....it's to OP. It should really only be CC's where you cannot attack back.

Kupoking

Omg dude. Great theorycrafting job

timidobserver

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Reactive is ok for pvp. While u r cc ed u cant deal dmg. Ok u can when u r rooted.
Good thing is it saves your stam since u wont break free.

Since you can attack while rooted with this set....it's to OP. It should really only be CC's where you cannot attack back.

Yup, so thoughtlessly spamming your root might not be such a great idea against all players now. I am okay with that.

Ahzek

The biggest issue here is that in fact the straigt out % damage reduction effects from sets or abilities are applied additively to the battle spirit buff. For example mist form 75% damage reduction and the battle spirit buff add up to 125% reduced damage taken, not to 87,5%. Thus any user of mist form becomes invincible for its duration.
The same gose for effects like cyrodiils light or reactive armor. Their bonus gets added onto the battle spirit buff so that, compared to the actual damage dealt their effectiveness is doubled. When you hit a wearer of reactive armor for a 5k wreking blow for example, while he is CCd the next wrecking blow will not do 35% dmg less, but 70%, ending up at a meek value of 1,5k damage.
While i agree that the concept of the set is awesome and i approve of these very interesting options it creates for tanks, the lazy way the battle spirit buff is coded (we had a similar issue with hardened and healing ward, which the now fixed SELECTIVELY ) just makes this set far too powerfull.

On the offensive side spells that get some form of % bonus damage on meeting a certain condition are not affected as much by this issue, since the circumvent the battle spirit buff partially themselves. Biring jabs for example gains extra dama ge on the closest target. This extra damage is not mitigated by the battle spirit buff and thus is effecitvely twice as high in relation to the damage the ability usually would deal than out of cyrodiily. Funnily enough this means that on,y spells, such as biting jabs are able to still dwal dama ge to mist form users, since the bonus damage is not affected by battle spirit,and will still hit the mist form user, albeit for only 75% of what it would usualy contribute.
Similary heal debuffs stack additively with the battle spirit debuff as well, and thus are also twice as effective as they actually should be, basically shutting heals completly down, at 20% (for the general 30% unmodified debuff) of the value they would have outside of cyrodiil


ZOS needs ro fix battle spirit for any sort of balance to return to cyrodiil.

GreenSoup2HoT

@Ahzek Very good post. Once the Cryodil de-buff is cut out, everything is fixed.