24 man Trials PLEASE!!!!

Fissh

Thread title, nuff said.

NewBlacksmurf

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

katnip

Me personally, it would make having PvE guild events(Trials) much easier. Though I can see the down side too. Being those smaller guild's or individuals having a hard time finding a legitimate group for them.

Fissh

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

Thymos

Yeah, smaller guilds would end up complaining about not being able to get the rewards of a 24 man trial...

Fissh

Thymos wrote: »

Yeah, smaller guilds would end up complaining about not being able to get the rewards of a 24 man trial...

So content should only be made for small guilds?

NewBlacksmurf

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

O K, so it would the reward system provide the same rewards as what exists now?
Would the larger trials contain the same difficulty?

Thymos

@Fissh

No, but it shouldn't only be made for large guilds either.

Let me get this straight, if by doing a 24 man trial, you are fine with the rewards of a 12 man trial? Or do you believe they should be better?

Rosveen

Why? Aren't 12 people trials fun enough? Would the benefits outweight the problems with finding and coordinating twice as many people?

Fissh

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

O K, so it would the reward system provide the same rewards as what exists now?
Would the larger trials contain the same difficulty?

Thymos wrote: »

@Fissh

No, but it shouldn't only be made for large guilds either.

Let me get this straight, if by doing a 24 man trial, you are fine with the rewards of a 12 man trial? Or do you believe they should be better?

Rewards: they can be the same, or maybe different sets that are simply different, not better (special looks, nifty set pcs that don't make you better....just have 'cool' effects, etc etc). A title. A color. An achievement. Separate score board as not to mesh the two. It could work, accommodate large scale, and not make people feel they HAVE to do it.

Difficulty: by default, organizing 24 people is harder. The difficulty can be relative, I don't really care.

Thymos

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

O K, so it would the reward system provide the same rewards as what exists now?
Would the larger trials contain the same difficulty?

Thymos wrote: »

@Fissh

No, but it shouldn't only be made for large guilds either.

Let me get this straight, if by doing a 24 man trial, you are fine with the rewards of a 12 man trial? Or do you believe they should be better?

Rewards: they can be the same, or maybe different sets that are simply different, not better (special looks, nifty set pcs that don't make you better....just have 'cool' effects, etc etc). A title. A color. An achievement. Separate score board as not to mesh the two. It could work, accommodate large scale, and not make people feel they HAVE to do it.

Difficulty: by default, organizing 24 people is harder. The difficulty can be relative, I don't really care.

Then definitely no thank you.

Fissh

Rosveen wrote: »

Why? Aren't 12 people trials fun enough? Would the benefits outweight the problems with finding and coordinating twice as many people?

Stack and burn every boss. Not fun. I understand that could happen in 24 man though. Yes, I think the benefits are relative to MMOs. Gathering 24 people and coordinating....like a PVP zerg group? Yes, it could be fun, especially for those of us that want to.

NewBlacksmurf

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

O K, so it would the reward system provide the same rewards as what exists now?
Would the larger trials contain the same difficulty?

Thymos wrote: »

@Fissh

No, but it shouldn't only be made for large guilds either.

Let me get this straight, if by doing a 24 man trial, you are fine with the rewards of a 12 man trial? Or do you believe they should be better?

Rewards: they can be the same, or maybe different sets that are simply different, not better (special looks, nifty set pcs that don't make you better....just have 'cool' effects, etc etc). A title. A color. An achievement. Separate score board as not to mesh the two. It could work, accommodate large scale, and not make people feel they HAVE to do it.

Difficulty: by default, organizing 24 people is harder. The difficulty can be relative, I don't really care.

Personally, this would not be of interest to me.
I think your desire is wanted by others tho. Lets see where this goes...happy gaming

Nestor

Our 450+ member Guild can't get 12 people together to learn how to do trials much less run them. The days of the large raiding party are pretty much over in my mind. Too many non game time commitments for these things.

Enemy-of-Coldharbour

I think a 24 'person' team would be so large that it would be difficult to keep track of the mobs you're fighting, especially with spells being cast and blinding everyone to what's around them and everyone getting in each others way.

Fissh

Nestor wrote: »

Our 450+ member Guild can't get 12 people together to learn how to do trials much less run them. The days of the large raiding party are pretty much over in my mind. Too many non game time commitments for these things.

I run a 500 man guild for 10-12months. Pre 1.6 we ran trials Every Single Day. I had ZERO problem getting bodies to go. The gear meta changed and the raid leaders got sick of running the same content for almost a year...., simple as that. Current Trials are old and tired. The gear doesn't fit the meta. Guilds that run Trials died by this means. The days of large scale are gone because of Zeni, not the community.

redspecter23

Nestor wrote: »

Our 450+ member Guild can't get 12 people together to learn how to do trials much less run them. The days of the large raiding party are pretty much over in my mind. Too many non game time commitments for these things.

I agree with this completely. I also have a 450+ member guild and I struggle to organize trials weekly when only needing 12 members. While 24 man raids might appeal to a portion of the playerbase, that portion is likely so small that designing the content as a paid DLC would be a huge money loss.

ZOS really needs to look at the larger picture when designing content. Craglorn is a failure partly because of forced 4 man groups with no rewards and less xp/min than camping a skeever respawn point. Imp City is a letdown for many because of being herded into ganking zones. What turnoff will be part of the mechanics in Orsinium? Who knows.

Fissh

redspecter23 wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Our 450+ member Guild can't get 12 people together to learn how to do trials much less run them. The days of the large raiding party are pretty much over in my mind. Too many non game time commitments for these things.

I agree with this completely. I also have a 450+ member guild and I struggle to organize trials weekly when only needing 12 members. While 24 man raids might appeal to a portion of the playerbase, that portion is likely so small that designing the content as a paid DLC would be a huge money loss.

ZOS really needs to look at the larger picture when designing content. Craglorn is a failure partly because of forced 4 man groups with no rewards and less xp/min than camping a skeever respawn point. Imp City is a letdown for many because of being herded into ganking zones. What turnoff will be part of the mechanics in Orsinium? Who knows.

As I told another, pre 1.6..Trails were run every single day by a large number of guilds. The meta change in 1.6 changed evrything, and thusly guilds stopped running something that was unrewarding.

Fissh

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

O K, so it would the reward system provide the same rewards as what exists now?
Would the larger trials contain the same difficulty?

Thymos wrote: »

@Fissh

No, but it shouldn't only be made for large guilds either.

Let me get this straight, if by doing a 24 man trial, you are fine with the rewards of a 12 man trial? Or do you believe they should be better?

Rewards: they can be the same, or maybe different sets that are simply different, not better (special looks, nifty set pcs that don't make you better....just have 'cool' effects, etc etc). A title. A color. An achievement. Separate score board as not to mesh the two. It could work, accommodate large scale, and not make people feel they HAVE to do it.

Difficulty: by default, organizing 24 people is harder. The difficulty can be relative, I don't really care.

Personally, this would not be of interest to me.
I think your desire is wanted by others tho. Lets see where this goes...happy gaming

I appreciate your respectable approach of debate. Thank you.

markt84

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

They already have that, it's can be found in cyridiil . You fight these bosses in castles, they all are pretty powerful, some more than other. You should take your 24 man group and try it out

Nestor

Fissh wrote: »

I run a 500 man guild for 10-12months. Pre 1.6 we ran trials Every Single Day. I had ZERO problem getting bodies to go. The gear meta changed and the raid leaders got sick of running the same content for almost a year...., simple as that. Current Trials are old and tired. The gear doesn't fit the meta. Guilds that run Trials died by this means. The days of large scale are gone because of Zeni, not the community.

I think you missed the part where we are trying to get people to learn the trials in the first place. These people have not run them, nor do they have any of the rewards as of yet. Our guild is not bored with the Trials, they just don't' want to do them.

Could there be more incentives to get more people to run trials? Probably. Would that mean the majority of the player base would run them? Probably not, in my opinion. Trials and Raids appeal to a segment of the MMO player base, but I really don't' think they appeal to majority of the player base.

It does remain to be seen if the lack of trials and raid development is due to a lack of interest in the majority of the player base or everything being on hold for console release. ZOS knows how many players they have and they know how many of them ran trials. The rest of us are just guessing.

Fissh

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

I think a 24 'person' team would be so large that it would be difficult to keep track of the mobs you're fighting, especially with spells being cast and blinding everyone to what's around them and everyone getting in each others way.

Controlled Chaos! Sounds awesome to me. Much better than globbing up in Cryodill, imo.

djyrb

I think that reducing Trials to 8 players would be ideal - it's hard enough to get 12 people to run Trials, even in some of the bigger guilds I belong to.

It always seems to be waiting for that last 1-3 players to fill the group that makes me regret joining, as I sit in the lobby area watching 8 other players spam skills, dance and just generally derp out for 30-45 minutes.

Fissh

markt84 wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

They already have that, it's can be found in cyridiil . You fight these bosses in castles, they all are pretty powerful, some more than other. You should take your 24 man group and try it out

Sure, wheen I pvp, but what about when I pve? Sry, your argument is obviously bias.

Fissh

djyrb wrote: »

I think that reducing Trials to 8 players would be ideal - it's hard enough to get 12 people to run Trials, even in some of the bigger guilds I belong to.

It always seems to be waiting for that last 1-3 players to fill the group that makes me regret joining, as I sit in the lobby area watching 8 other players spam skills, dance and just generally derp out for 30-45 minutes.

Because of gear meta and tired old Trials. Throw in a proper gear reward and watch those groups fill up fast. Like pre 1.6....just saying.

Fissh

Nestor wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

I run a 500 man guild for 10-12months. Pre 1.6 we ran trials Every Single Day. I had ZERO problem getting bodies to go. The gear meta changed and the raid leaders got sick of running the same content for almost a year...., simple as that. Current Trials are old and tired. The gear doesn't fit the meta. Guilds that run Trials died by this means. The days of large scale are gone because of Zeni, not the community.

I think you missed the part where we are trying to get people to learn the trials in the first place. These people have not run them, nor do they have any of the rewards as of yet. Our guild is not bored with the Trials, they just don't' want to do them.

Could there be more incentives to get more people to run trials? Probably. Would that mean the majority of the player base would run them? Probably not, in my opinion. Trials and Raids appeal to a segment of the MMO player base, but I really don't' think they appeal to majority of the player base.

It does remain to be seen if the lack of trials and raid development is due to a lack of interest in the majority of the player base or everything being on hold for console release. ZOS knows how many players they have and they know how many of them ran trials. The rest of us are just guessing.

New guild? Maybe then the content is still'new' to you? For those of us that run these since launch, 100 and 100 of times, it is tired. The rewards don't fit the meta. AGAIN, these problems did not exist pre 1.6, trial groups filled rapidly.

Zorrashi

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

O K, so it would the reward system provide the same rewards as what exists now?
Would the larger trials contain the same difficulty?

Thymos wrote: »

@Fissh

No, but it shouldn't only be made for large guilds either.

Let me get this straight, if by doing a 24 man trial, you are fine with the rewards of a 12 man trial? Or do you believe they should be better?

Rewards: they can be the same, or maybe different sets that are simply different, not better (special looks, nifty set pcs that don't make you better....just have 'cool' effects, etc etc). A title. A color. An achievement. Separate score board as not to mesh the two. It could work, accommodate large scale, and not make people feel they HAVE to do it.

Difficulty: by default, organizing 24 people is harder. The difficulty can be relative, I don't really care.

Well if the rewards are not innately superior to other in-game methods, then I think 24 man raids are harmless. Of course, I believe that the gear/dye/title/whatever acquired from such things should be unique. Not over the top in flashiness, but distinctly unique in a way that the achievement of clearing the trial is somewhat distinctive in the player's eyes.

That being said, I do not want 24-man trials to become the focus of the game (the OP isn't asking that, but I just want to clarify for those who bring up a potential "this isn't WoW!" argument). Given the demographic of this game however, such a thing would not likely be as popular as some may expect. But one or two should be fine for those who want them.

NewBlacksmurf

Fissh wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Our 450+ member Guild can't get 12 people together to learn how to do trials much less run them. The days of the large raiding party are pretty much over in my mind. Too many non game time commitments for these things.

I run a 500 man guild for 10-12months. Pre 1.6 we ran trials Every Single Day. I had ZERO problem getting bodies to go. The gear meta changed and the raid leaders got sick of running the same content for almost a year...., simple as that. Current Trials are old and tired. The gear doesn't fit the meta. Guilds that run Trials died by this means. The days of large scale are gone because of Zeni, not the community.

gotcha so it sounds like there isn't a need for larger Trials but rather a desire for new things to do.
Basically there is a strong desire for more 12 man Trials because no new content

Fissh

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Our 450+ member Guild can't get 12 people together to learn how to do trials much less run them. The days of the large raiding party are pretty much over in my mind. Too many non game time commitments for these things.

I run a 500 man guild for 10-12months. Pre 1.6 we ran trials Every Single Day. I had ZERO problem getting bodies to go. The gear meta changed and the raid leaders got sick of running the same content for almost a year...., simple as that. Current Trials are old and tired. The gear doesn't fit the meta. Guilds that run Trials died by this means. The days of large scale are gone because of Zeni, not the community.

gotcha so it sounds like there isn't a need for larger Trials but rather a desire for new things to do.
Basically there is a strong desire for more 12 man Trials because no new content

New 12 man content is a definite desire, no doubt. And hopefully would follow the gear meta to stimulate participation. 24 man would be a cherry on top though, all I am saying

Fissh

Zorrashi wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Fissh wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why do you want this and what is missing from what exists?

Because I like large scale PVE? Because SO is old content? Because guilds that run Trials are becoming less and less (at least competitive ones)? Because running with 24 people and getting them all to understand the "dance" can be fun and exciting? Because it doesn't exist and would be new and exiting for PVE'ers? I can keep going if you want.....

O K, so it would the reward system provide the same rewards as what exists now?
Would the larger trials contain the same difficulty?

Thymos wrote: »

@Fissh

No, but it shouldn't only be made for large guilds either.

Let me get this straight, if by doing a 24 man trial, you are fine with the rewards of a 12 man trial? Or do you believe they should be better?

Rewards: they can be the same, or maybe different sets that are simply different, not better (special looks, nifty set pcs that don't make you better....just have 'cool' effects, etc etc). A title. A color. An achievement. Separate score board as not to mesh the two. It could work, accommodate large scale, and not make people feel they HAVE to do it.

Difficulty: by default, organizing 24 people is harder. The difficulty can be relative, I don't really care.

Well if the rewards are not innately superior to other in-game methods, then I think 24 man raids are harmless. Of course, I believe that the gear/dye/title/whatever acquired from such things should be unique. Not over the top in flashiness, but distinctly unique in a way that the achievement of clearing the trial is somewhat distinctive in the player's eyes.

That being said, I do not want 24-man trials to become the focus of the game (the OP isn't asking that, but I just want to clarify for those who bring up a potential "this isn't WoW!" argument). Given the demographic of this game however, such a thing would not likely be as popular as some may expect. But one or two should be fine for those who want them.

Well said and correct, I am not looking for 24 man to become the focus. Just something for 24 people to get together and go for that is not a PVP zerg. Also correct, every single trial does not need a 24 man version, but giving an option or two of such would make some of us progressive PVE'ers very very happy.

Thymos

I just remember playing Rift, and how everyone stopped playing the larger man raids, because there was no true benefit of doing a raid with more people. The only way to get people to do it, would be to add incentive, and I don't care for an incentive to be added to a larger man trial, because then it will lock out those who can't get together for something like this.