Wrecking Blow Animation Cancelled Heavy Attack

Ezareth

Anyone else notice you can animation cancel a Wrecking Blow with a heavy attack and have both hit at the same time with only the animation for the heavy attack displaying? I know they claim they fixed on some 2hander animations but this is the first time I feel something doesn't seem right with this combo and it hiding a wrecking blow behind a heavy attack seems pretty stupid.

Glory

I haven't tried this (I will try it when I get on).

Have you also noticed some weird form of lag(?) where the first wrecking blow animates without damage, and a second wrecking blow animates with both hits registering?

RinaldoGandolphi

Ezareth wrote: »

Anyone else notice you can animation cancel a Wrecking Blow with a heavy attack and have both hit at the same time with only the animation for the heavy attack displaying? I know they claim they fixed on some 2hander animations but this is the first time I feel something doesn't seem right with this combo and it hiding a wrecking blow behind a heavy attack seems pretty stupid.

Yup i noticed this on my Templar who uses two handed.

I could see quite a few people being very angry seeing only a heavy attack yet a Wrecking Blow in their kill log.

david.haypreub18_ESO

Well at least Wrecking Blow itself isn't overpowered or anything... that would be a nightmare!

/sarcasm off

Ezareth

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I haven't tried this (I will try it when I get on).

Have you also noticed some weird form of lag(?) where the first wrecking blow animates without damage, and a second wrecking blow animates with both hits registering?

Yeah I've seen this too. I think they broke something with the new animation"fixes".

We need to test this more.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Like you all have said, I too have noticed screwy things going on with WB. I've just been running around PvPing so it's hard to tell what is happening in the heat of the moment, but there definitely seems like some additional damage coming in from somewhere at the same time as WB.

wraith808

Ezareth wrote: »

Anyone else notice you can animation cancel a Wrecking Blow with a heavy attack and have both hit at the same time with only the animation for the heavy attack displaying? I know they claim they fixed on some 2hander animations but this is the first time I feel something doesn't seem right with this combo and it hiding a wrecking blow behind a heavy attack seems pretty stupid.

This isn't new. It's just easier to execute now. I was doing this pre-1.6, and trying to get it down to an art- but it was very difficult. Now, not so much.

Robbmrp

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, would you pass this thread on to Eric please? We shouldn't be able to hit both with WB and a Heavy attack at the same time. Animation Cancelling is causing a lot of damage to be applied in less time than the game code was setup for. This explains why people are getting one shotted all the time.

Erock25

Hhhmm on Live I can hit Wrecking Blow and immediately hold left click and a full Wrecking Blow animation plays but my heavy attack is shorter afterwards. On PTS I have been noticing this is different and it looks like the Heavy Attack cancels the Wrecking Blow, but I have had issues connecting with the Wrecking Blow still. Maybe it is going through and I'm just not noticing the damage. Will have to test more but something definitely changed with the relationship between Wrecking Blow's animation and Heavy Attacks.

Lorkhan

im using wb in the PTS and idk how to animation cancel it. there should be a nasty trick.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Robbmrp wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler, would you pass this thread on to Eric please? We shouldn't be able to hit both with WB and a Heavy attack at the same time. Animation Cancelling is causing a lot of damage to be applied in less time than the game code was setup for. This explains why people are getting one shotted all the time.

I wasn't one-shotting, but 3 or 4 -shotting people in IC sewers on my Argonian NB with only 2.4k weapon damage. Ambush+animation cancel WB+Soul Harvest+whatever else to finish if need be. Dead before stealth stun wears off. I only managed to pull this off against a handful of enemy players that I got the jump on, but it was still surprising because I thought this wasn't supposed to really exist any more.

FENGRUSH

Noticed in my first fight that animations around Wblow are completely botched. They werent messed up really at all in 1.6. So when the patch notes mentioned 'fixing' I didnt know what they were talking about. Not I do - they broke something that didnt require fixing!

Armitas

There was a way to do this on live, they are not exactly at the same time but pretty close. I haven't tried it in a few months though so I can't quite remember the rotation. You basically charge a heavy attack under the WB iirc, kinda like with rapid strikes and heavy attacks.

It's a pretty wrecking combo with each attack perpetually buffing the next attack. The heavy attack increases Wrecking blow by 10% and the Wrecking blow increases heavy attack by 20%.

Ezareth

Lorkhan wrote: »

im using wb in the PTS and idk how to animation cancel it. there should be a nasty trick.

Press Wrecking blow key.

Immediately heavy attack.

Profit.

wraith808

Erock25 wrote: »

Hhhmm on Live I can hit Wrecking Blow and immediately hold left click and a full Wrecking Blow animation plays but my heavy attack is shorter afterwards. On PTS I have been noticing this is different and it looks like the Heavy Attack cancels the Wrecking Blow, but I have had issues connecting with the Wrecking Blow still. Maybe it is going through and I'm just not noticing the damage. Will have to test more but something definitely changed with the relationship between Wrecking Blow's animation and Heavy Attacks.

What do you mean by 'issues connecting'? Just trying to ask for clarity to see if it was the same thing I was seeing.

Lorkhan

Ezareth wrote: »

Lorkhan wrote: »

im using wb in the PTS and idk how to animation cancel it. there should be a nasty trick.

Press Wrecking blow key.

Immediately heavy attack.

Profit.

nasty

Erock25

wraith808 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Hhhmm on Live I can hit Wrecking Blow and immediately hold left click and a full Wrecking Blow animation plays but my heavy attack is shorter afterwards. On PTS I have been noticing this is different and it looks like the Heavy Attack cancels the Wrecking Blow, but I have had issues connecting with the Wrecking Blow still. Maybe it is going through and I'm just not noticing the damage. Will have to test more but something definitely changed with the relationship between Wrecking Blow's animation and Heavy Attacks.

What do you mean by 'issues connecting'? Just trying to ask for clarity to see if it was the same thing I was seeing.

Well I was using my normal Wrecking Blow rotation which is holding the left mouse immediately after starting the Wrecking Blow, and it seemed like this was cancelling the Wrecking Blow all together, but it may have just been the animation which was being cancelled.

Robbmrp

Erock25 wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Hhhmm on Live I can hit Wrecking Blow and immediately hold left click and a full Wrecking Blow animation plays but my heavy attack is shorter afterwards. On PTS I have been noticing this is different and it looks like the Heavy Attack cancels the Wrecking Blow, but I have had issues connecting with the Wrecking Blow still. Maybe it is going through and I'm just not noticing the damage. Will have to test more but something definitely changed with the relationship between Wrecking Blow's animation and Heavy Attacks.

What do you mean by 'issues connecting'? Just trying to ask for clarity to see if it was the same thing I was seeing.

Well I was using my normal Wrecking Blow rotation which is holding the left mouse immediately after starting the Wrecking Blow, and it seemed like this was cancelling the Wrecking Blow all together, but it may have just been the animation which was being cancelled.

That's exactly what the OP described. Instead of just seeming like it was cancelled it hit the other player/npc with both at the same time. Even a Death Recap wouldn't show both hits. If you have a damage meter, review that and see if both hits show there or only the light attack. Then you'll know for sure.

Planchard

This explains why someone messaged me accusing me of using macros. I believe I hit them with wrecking blow, heavy attack and executioner almost all at the same time.

@Erock25 I noticed that when my WB was being canceled, I usually never did damage and when it would do damage, I just thought it was lag and the WB still registered. I'm not running FTC on PTS so it makes it harder to tell the damage I'm doing.

Erock25

Planchard wrote: »

This explains why someone messaged me accusing me of using macros. I believe I hit them with wrecking blow, heavy attack and executioner almost all at the same time.

@Erock25 I noticed that when my WB was being canceled, I usually never did damage and when it would do damage, I just thought it was lag and the WB still registered. I'm not running FTC on PTS so it makes it harder to tell the damage I'm doing.

Yep I disabled Addons trying to prevent my frequent crashing so I wasn't sure if WB was actually connecting or not either.

Ezareth

Yes it is connecting. The animation suggests that somehow you've actually "cancelled" the wrecking blow, but it still goes through along with whatever you've cancelled it with. I think they really screwed sometime up with the animation change.

Bashev

Yes I also noticed that on my DK when i tried to animation cancel WB with heavy attack.

Itoq

The fubar damage with wrecking blow hits seeming to stack up as well as the wrecking blow animation not playing out correctly are both issues I have been seeing for quite some time on live.

These are both issues not limited to wrecking blow. I have been somewhat baffled by the community not being more vocal about attack animations and sounds not playing out correctly(not merely an issue of animation cancelling) and stacked damage. Maybe I notice it more as I spend a lot of time playing solo and other players are now getting more of that experience due to the FPS like rejoin battle times on PTS?

Ezareth

Itoq wrote: »

The fubar damage with wrecking blow hits seeming to stack up as well as the wrecking blow animation not playing out correctly are both issues I have been seeing for quite some time on live.

These are both issues not limited to wrecking blow. I have been somewhat baffled by the community not being more vocal about attack animations and sounds not playing out correctly. Maybe I notice it more as I spend a lot of time playing solo and other players are now getting more of that experience due to the FPS like rejoin battle times on PTS?

I've noticed some of the more notorious gankers on live using something similar to this but never bothered to research or try it myself as it seems more of an exploit than anything else.

I only noticed it on PTS because I was running out of stamina and decided to try mixing in some heavy attacks to restore stamina during my rotations.

Teargrants

ZOS screwing up animation changes? This can't be!

Remember, ZOS has a golden track record w/ new animations, it's not like they ever...

- Changed bow animations & created health desync bug
- Changed running animations & created non animated running bug
- Changed shield animations & created throat punch shield stance bug for females
- Claimed they fixed toppling charge animation every patch, except they didn't

Oh wait...

Ezareth

Teargrants wrote: »

ZOS screwing up animation changes? This can't be!

Remember, ZOS has a golden track record w/ new animations, it's not like they ever...

- Changed bow animations & created health desync bug
- Changed running animations & created non animated running bug
- Changed shield animations & created throat punch shield stance bug for females
- Claimed they fixed toppling charge animation every patch, except they didn't

Oh wait...

Don't forget Improved Horse Animations....which caused your horse to constantly come to a hard stop while running.

wraith808

Ezareth wrote: »

Yes it is connecting. The animation suggests that somehow you've actually "cancelled" the wrecking blow, but it still goes through along with whatever you've cancelled it with. I think they really screwed sometime up with the animation change.

It actually works on live also. And has been for a while before. It's just much easier on PTS now for some reason. On live, you have a very limited window in which to start on your heavy attack, and release it. If you miss either of these, then either the heavy attack won't go off at all, or you will still be charging after the WB hits. That window is broken, open to any time, and very easy to hit on PTS.

Erock25

wraith808 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yes it is connecting. The animation suggests that somehow you've actually "cancelled" the wrecking blow, but it still goes through along with whatever you've cancelled it with. I think they really screwed sometime up with the animation change.

It actually works on live also. And has been for a while before. It's just much easier on PTS now for some reason. On live, you have a very limited window in which to start on your heavy attack, and release it. If you miss either of these, then either the heavy attack won't go off at all, or you will still be charging after the WB hits. That window is broken, open to any time, and very easy to hit on PTS.

It works very differently on Live tho. On Live you have almost the full WB animation and your Heavy animation is basically non-existent but still hits. On PTS the WB animation is basically non existent with the entire heavy attack animation playing.

Bashev

Erock25 wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Yes it is connecting. The animation suggests that somehow you've actually "cancelled" the wrecking blow, but it still goes through along with whatever you've cancelled it with. I think they really screwed sometime up with the animation change.

It actually works on live also. And has been for a while before. It's just much easier on PTS now for some reason. On live, you have a very limited window in which to start on your heavy attack, and release it. If you miss either of these, then either the heavy attack won't go off at all, or you will still be charging after the WB hits. That window is broken, open to any time, and very easy to hit on PTS.

It works very differently on Live tho. On Live you have almost the full WB animation and your Heavy animation is basically non-existent but still hits. On PTS the WB animation is basically non existent with the entire heavy attack animation playing.

+1
Exactly this is what I see.

Itoq

Perhaps related:

I thought that I noticed a difference in snipe weaving with snipe/heavy attack on PTS - where you start your partial heavy attack right after starting a snipe.

I felt like on PTS I had to release the heavy attack a very small fraction of a second later than on live to get the damage from the weaved light attack to hit. If I release it as normal I it seemed like the damage wasn't happening. This might just be me though and I didn't slot snipe for all that long.

Xael

I just tested the combo with Sunshine on PTS.

The follow-up Heavy attack barely does any damage against a shielded opponent and occasionally bugs out if the target goes airborne. For example, the target lifts off, the second hit will sometimes hang and then thud when they land several feet away. Also more often than not (Sunshine was on a Sorc) the Heavy will rarely go through a shield and if it did, it did around 2k damage. This is of course after WB was completely absorbed. I have over 3k weapon damage not counting procs like Ravager or buffs like Relentless Focus.

I really don't see an issue here. Especially if your target moves around or uses abilities like Streak. Considering the damage on PTS, I can't see this being a problem. Granted I did not use this against a squishy Stam NB.