Do you agree with the ZoS putting a Cap on Champion Points per DLC?

F7sus4

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

No. The CP gap is already proven to be BS.

Ace_of_Destiny

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

/lurk

@ZOS_RichLambert

How about a "/lurk" in one of the many "Console Text Chat" threads...please?
Just let console players know they are at least that important to you.

I am sorry to the OP.
I am not trying to hijack your thread.
Some us are just starting to get the feeling we are "second-class citizens".
Please carry on with the topic at hand.

Tolmos

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

I'm honestly very excited for the cap, the catch up mechanic and the possible CP free PvP campaigns. These are huge boons that should help a lot of folks now and down the road. +1 to ZOS for listening.

Elhanan

Tyr wrote: »

Elhanan wrote: »

This won't address the long term consequences of the champion point system. Slowly progression of CP now will only benefit casual players NOW. In the future, it will be a hindrance for any new potential customers/players.

I seriously don't understand how nobody either 1) realizes this problem or 2) understands that it will ultimately result in similar complaints as they are now facing.

They are also creating a curve for players with lower CP than the general population, so the later a player gets into the game the faster they will earn their first CP.

I am unconvinced that this will mitigate the potential disparity between new and old players. Sure the first few (hundred) CP will be fast, but when the average player has thousands this will hardly make a dent in the vastly superior passive bonus that more veteran players will have. I am not arguing that this is fair or unfair (I actually think this system will favor me). Rather, I am concerned that this will harm the future of ESO. It simply is not a system that will encourage (and more likely will discourage) new players (thus the longevity/prosperity of this game) to sign up.

Pentegarn

All for capping CP. CP was a bad idea to begin with in my opinion. It completely unbalanced non-vet PvP. New players without vet characters and the extra CP to spare their non-vet characters have a horribly unbalanced experience for their introduction to ESO PvP.

So yeah, cap that ***.

washlov

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

poor china farmers may you will get a
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBuKOEFOLmI



like the 1 year subscribers got a tiger and now have to pay for IC ....

gilbegger

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

voted yes..

This will give me an opportunity to satisfy my "alt itis"...

Love the idea of capping CP for each DLC.

DaveMoeDee

Kinda, If you can still earn CP even-though you wont be able to always to use all of them.

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Hexyl wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The game does state "unlimited adventure " if you limit it, its no longer unlimited...

The Grind for CP is the "unlimited adventure" you want ? u_u. Amazing..

Also, yes, cp make an HUGE difference... go read some post about it..

If not, why you thing pvp people are grinding cp ??

And its not like people gain that HUGE difference in one day.
Gaining CP TAKES DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS

And guess what

EVERYONE is allowed to gain CP.
If they CHOOSE not to, the only one at FAULT is the PLAYER.

What i see in this topic is what i keep repeating in every "Plx norf CP plax plax so OP" topic.

Players who decide to invest their OWN PERSONAL TIME into game, are being targeted by LAZY PLAYERS who for some reason decide that they are ENTITLED to have in game character as strong as someone who is dedicated player who spends his OWN TIME in game.

People who advocate for removing/changing/limiting CP are ALLOWED to gain CP JUST AS ANY OTHER PLAYER. They CHOOSE NOT TO and instead of blaming for it the only person responsible (themselves) they demand to take away work of those who EARNED it.

Everything you say is correct. But it still doesn't settle the issue of the cap.

The reason is that what is more important is what will lead to the best long term health of the game. Even if it pisses off 5% of the players, sometimes certain changes need to be made.

Please do not respond to this by repeating the same arguments, as I already accepted that you are more or less correct.

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

King Bozo wrote: »

No I earned my cp. Drink xp pots and grind if you are not happy with your cp. Death to those that are jealous.

THis is why I refuse to continue my SUB ....nuff said you have been quoted more than once and not on good notes

Leandor

F7sus4 wrote: »

No. The CP gap is already proven to be BS.

Is it allowed to disagree with that post? I mean, completely?

The fact that at 100 points in a single star, its efficiency starts to stagnate is in no way proof for or against any issue with a CP gap. And that is all your graphs show. Once you have invested 100 points into mighty, you cannot gain more bonus by investing more points in mighty.

The fact that if you invest an additional 100 points in cost reduction and in regeneration and in piercing and in thaumaturge and in spell resistance, etc. will all either increase your damage output even after you have maxed out mighty or will make you more difficult to kill so you can output damage longer even though you have maxed out mighty is completely disregarded.

Let me give examples:

1. Stamina Build:
   • Damage increase from Mage constellations: Mighty, Precise Strikes, Piercing, The respective Expert from Atronach for your weapon, Spell Erosion (for thos abilities that still do magic damage even though they are based on stamina and weapon damage). That is 5 stars in one area, requiring you to attain 1500 total CP.
   • Defense increase from Warrior constellations: Hardy, Elemental Defender, Spell Shield, to a lesser extend Resistant. Still 4 stars and a total of 1200 CP.
   • Sustainability Increase from Thief constellation: Mooncalf, Warlord, Tumbling, to a lesser extent sprinter. Still at least 900 CP total to max out.
2. Magicka Build:
   • Damage increase: Elfborn, Thaumaturge OR Elemental Expert, Spell Erosion, Staff Expert. 1200 CP minimum, 1500 CP if you mix magic and elemental damage.
   • Defense, see stamina build.
   • Sustain: Arcanist, Magician. To a lesser extent Tumbling and Warlord to minimize dodge/break free cost. 600 min, 1200 if honest.

The lowest number I see is 600 CP. The realistic number is 1200. The true top plateau is at 1500.

The fact that people agree with you is tribute to the theory that once you put up a smart looking graph, a significant part of the population is unable to resist believing in it. I blame government statistics for that behaviour.

You have a point that the plateau is not at 3600 but much earlier, but it is not at 300 or 360 CP in total, it is in the range of 1500 CP total. At 3000 CP total, you stop getting attribute bonuses. Only the last 600 CP are purely flavour.

That said, I still do not like the cap idea. As I said earlier, a catch-up mechanism that accelerates gain for those far below average and decelerates gain for those far above average is much more preferable. It may accelerate the overall CP gain and make average players reach the 3600 mark much earlier than initially planned, but that is largely caused by the fact that we already have this huge spectrum.

Cap would have worked if and only if it was implemented from the very beginning. Now is time for corrective measures, not for forced limits.

(EDIT: Some wording corrections to make the text more clear)

R0M2K

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

1- Grinding is boring.
2- have less cps than the media.

If some one has spent his/her time farming cps im ok for them to have them, whenever those cps where obtained with licit methods (no automation).

Cuyler

NO CAP.

The system needs better catch up enlightenment mechanics. For example:

1. Stack rested enlightenment indefinitely.
2. Provide enlightenment twice a day at 12 hour intervals, with the caveat that you only get the second daily enlightenment bonus if the first wasn't used up. In addition, it provides a faster rate of CP gain than the initial daily bonus.
3. Break this^ idea even farther. 8 hr intervals? 4 hour intervals? with each rate of CP gain exponentially growing to the daily maximum.

Ideas such as these will help those with little time or new to the game to actually catch up to the grinders and not simply punish grinders for playing their way.@ZOS_RichLambert

To the OP, the "NO, I earned my cp and I want to use them" option makes it impossible for those with the opposing opinion to respond without sounding like a bratty child.

Merlin13KAGL

I expect they'll have to end up going one of three ways:

• They'll implement CP Battle Leveling
• They'll set options/campaigns/instance where you can disable/throttle CP effect.
• They'll factor in CP's when determining scores and drops, etc.

OdinForge

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

They should have capped CP per content release from the get-go, they should have never allowed exploiting and CP grinders to get so far ahead.

Williamxx

Kinda, If you can still earn CP even-though you wont be able to always to use all of them.

I'm still relatively new to the game and a bit torn on the subject. I used to be moderately hardcore at playing MMO's. Then life... such is life.

So as someone who understands the hardcore mentality it isn't fair to let people catch up quick to things you've earned. If you play for years it isn't right for someone who just started a month ago shouldn't be able to get to where you are at easily. I always thought games were lacking in the sense you could never become truly powerful in a sense even if you were playing for yearrrrs.

On the other hand not being hardcore and more "casual" nowadays I can sympathize with wanting to be able to catch up. I want to be able to experience the game fully. I don't want someone who plays 16 hours a day telling me i'm not good enough, I can't join their group etc.

However there is a bit of a distinction between PvP and PvE. PvP I feel there should be more of an even playing field, but still should be some advantages, but maybe scaled slightly less than PvE. PvE on the other hand doesn't just mean groups, but also solo play. I want my character to feel powerful!

I think CP are good and kind of remind me of AA's in Everquest. I think there should be more diverse categories for AA's which extend beyond combat and into crafting, special moves, etc.

Vaelen

Williamxx wrote: »

I'm still relatively new to the game and a bit torn on the subject. I used to be moderately hardcore at playing MMO's. Then life... such is life.

So as someone who understands the hardcore mentality it isn't fair to let people catch up quick to things you've earned. If you play for years it isn't right for someone who just started a month ago shouldn't be able to get to where you are at easily. I always thought games were lacking in the sense you could never become truly powerful in a sense even if you were playing for yearrrrs.

On the other hand not being hardcore and more "casual" nowadays I can sympathize with wanting to be able to catch up. I want to be able to experience the game fully. I don't want someone who plays 16 hours a day telling me i'm not good enough, I can't join their group etc.

However there is a bit of a distinction between PvP and PvE. PvP I feel there should be more of an even playing field, but still should be some advantages, but maybe scaled slightly less than PvE. PvE on the other hand doesn't just mean groups, but also solo play. I want my character to feel powerful!

I think CP are good and kind of remind me of AA's in Everquest. I think there should be more diverse categories for AA's which extend beyond combat and into crafting, special moves, etc.

I have a solution that would benefit casual gamers, albeit a political one...

Put a online MMO game time cap and that after so many hours, you are logged off to deal with real life and must wait to log back on again. This would benefit casual gamers, but hardcore gamers will just rage-quit this game and look for another game without time caps, which is going to eventually require the government to regulate the whole online MMO industry to make it fair for MMO companies to compete. So short of a government solution, I don't really have one since anything that benefits casuals will hurt hardcore players, and anything that benefits hardcore players will subsequently hurt casuals.

Kuroinu

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

I'll begin with how I feel PvE content should work with Champion Points.
(I've highlighted certain parts in bold to get my point across more clearly.)

We are all aware of the way current Dungeons work to keep them challenging; they scale to the level of the Group Leader. With this said, I'd assume a much more effective way to implement any sort of CP restriction would be to not place a CP Cap on content but to scale the content to the amount of CP a player has in the same way Dungeons already scale to the Group Leader.

I cannot comment on PvP so much as I have not experienced it yet, however I have read various threads/comments and watched ESO live enough to get an understanding. But I believe a CP Cap should be placed within PvP Campaign areas, since this seems to be where CP is most effective and that my above idea of scaling doesn't quite work for PvP.

Waffennacht

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

As far as new players coming to a game, after research talking with many much more experienced mmorpg players....

The player pool drops intensely after a few months. Player base is how many on launch, how many stick through bugs, and how well bugs are handled.

The idea that in 6 months time we have such a player pool coming into the game where CP points will deter them wont happen.

There will not be an influx of players down the road. The idea of using new players as a reason to cap the cp is a false claim as they will be such a small percentage they shouldn't have an effect

notimetocare

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

Valen_Byte wrote: »

This would be P2W.

Increase comes with the release of DLC, not for buying it.

notimetocare

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Hexyl wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

The game does state "unlimited adventure " if you limit it, its no longer unlimited...

The Grind for CP is the "unlimited adventure" you want ? u_u. Amazing..

Also, yes, cp make an HUGE difference... go read some post about it..

If not, why you thing pvp people are grinding cp ??

And its not like people gain that HUGE difference in one day.
Gaining CP TAKES DAYS, WEEKS, MONTHS

And guess what

EVERYONE is allowed to gain CP.
If they CHOOSE not to, the only one at FAULT is the PLAYER.

What i see in this topic is what i keep repeating in every "Plx norf CP plax plax so OP" topic.

Players who decide to invest their OWN PERSONAL TIME into game, are being targeted by LAZY PLAYERS who for some reason decide that they are ENTITLED to have in game character as strong as someone who is dedicated player who spends his OWN TIME in game.

People who advocate for removing/changing/limiting CP are ALLOWED to gain CP JUST AS ANY OTHER PLAYER. They CHOOSE NOT TO and instead of blaming for it the only person responsible (themselves) they demand to take away work of those who EARNED it.

Everything you say is correct. But it still doesn't settle the issue of the cap.

The reason is that what is more important is what will lead to the best long term health of the game. Even if it pisses off 5% of the players, sometimes certain changes need to be made.

Please do not respond to this by repeating the same arguments, as I already accepted that you are more or less correct.

No, he is wrong. People with lives suffer in the game because of nolifers.

notimetocare

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

Waffennacht wrote: »

As far as new players coming to a game, after research talking with many much more experienced mmorpg players....

The player pool drops intensely after a few months. Player base is how many on launch, how many stick through bugs, and how well bugs are handled.

The idea that in 6 months time we have such a player pool coming into the game where CP points will deter them wont happen.

There will not be an influx of players down the road. The idea of using new players as a reason to cap the cp is a false claim as they will be such a small percentage they shouldn't have an effect

I know its a really odd concept, but games actually do get new players when new content is announced. Many players return. Lets have them look at the gap and go 'yea, ill go back to X'

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

The catchup mechanic is vital for this games success. The gap in CP is the biggest issue this game has as it automatically disqualifies the vast majority of people from competitive end game content. I have never played a game this out of wack in power disparity. Even in NON - VET PvP you can be literally stomped into the mud by a level 10 character simply because they heal for 5% more, Deal 5% more damage, Have 5% better resource management, have 5% stronger shields and have access to all those gravy passives that increased champion points grant on top of their 50% spell / armor mitigation bolster. The disparity is HUGE and it cannot be raked back by means of skill. This game is a play to win game. Skill only applies for a very select few at the forefront of the CP grind.

IIIMPIII

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

Typical players who are not used to playing mmos whining. I only run into a few players in pvp that i cant go toe to toe with. If you put the time in, you should keep your champion points. get over it, stop crying.

Williamxx

Kinda, If you can still earn CP even-though you wont be able to always to use all of them.

Vaelen wrote: »

Williamxx wrote: »

I'm still relatively new to the game and a bit torn on the subject. I used to be moderately hardcore at playing MMO's. Then life... such is life.

So as someone who understands the hardcore mentality it isn't fair to let people catch up quick to things you've earned. If you play for years it isn't right for someone who just started a month ago shouldn't be able to get to where you are at easily. I always thought games were lacking in the sense you could never become truly powerful in a sense even if you were playing for yearrrrs.

On the other hand not being hardcore and more "casual" nowadays I can sympathize with wanting to be able to catch up. I want to be able to experience the game fully. I don't want someone who plays 16 hours a day telling me i'm not good enough, I can't join their group etc.

However there is a bit of a distinction between PvP and PvE. PvP I feel there should be more of an even playing field, but still should be some advantages, but maybe scaled slightly less than PvE. PvE on the other hand doesn't just mean groups, but also solo play. I want my character to feel powerful!

I think CP are good and kind of remind me of AA's in Everquest. I think there should be more diverse categories for AA's which extend beyond combat and into crafting, special moves, etc.

I have a solution that would benefit casual gamers, albeit a political one...

Put a online MMO game time cap and that after so many hours, you are logged off to deal with real life and must wait to log back on again. This would benefit casual gamers, but hardcore gamers will just rage-quit this game and look for another game without time caps, which is going to eventually require the government to regulate the whole online MMO industry to make it fair for MMO companies to compete. So short of a government solution, I don't really have one since anything that benefits casuals will hurt hardcore players, and anything that benefits hardcore players will subsequently hurt casuals.

Yeah, no one can really win. Developers get a lot of crap, but imagine trying to make a game fun for everyone. People who put in the time should get rewarded IMO. I personally think PvE should be more open as far as letting people get ahead, but PvP should be more balanced or scaled accordingly.

Orrrr people who average 16 hours a day will all get placed on their own server to compete with each other! Then the casual server can get rainbows and a medal each time a user logs in for participating!

niawrathb16_ESO

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

I understand what zenimax is trying to accomplish with the idea closing the gap between players or creating a more even playing field however restricting the amount of CP you earn would make it feel like playing is a waste of time until the next DLC. I hope zenimax will think of an alternate solution.

niawrathb16_ESO

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

Waffennacht wrote: »

As far as new players coming to a game, after research talking with many much more experienced mmorpg players....

The player pool drops intensely after a few months. Player base is how many on launch, how many stick through bugs, and how well bugs are handled.

The idea that in 6 months time we have such a player pool coming into the game where CP points will deter them wont happen.

There will not be an influx of players down the road. The idea of using new players as a reason to cap the cp is a false claim as they will be such a small percentage they shouldn't have an effect

For a PVP solution they could create campaigns with CP limits ...this is based on another idea zenimax had in the mentioned ESO live episode (they suggested a non CP campaign )

Rhakon

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

you should play for fun!
not for boring Championspoints, that bring linear progress no individualism or big desicions....
never saw a more senseless system in an mmo like this, it seperates players and brings endless imbalance for PvE and PvP.

BlackEar

Yes, It will allow others to catch up.

Yes.

ESO is by comparison a more casual MMO and this is consistent with their philosophy. While it will hurt some of the hardcore players ESO is beginning to find its place in the MMO market and is forming its target group.

I think this is the best way to go when looking at the general player base.

Akarius_Alexios

ZOS is in a bad position as if they do nothing, the disparity between player development and meaningful competition will continue to widen. If they impose caps, they reward those who have dedicated less time to their product and punish those who have dedicated more time.

The solution should be scaled and not finite. They should pick an amount of CP they feel is appropriate (Target CP) and then scale enlightenment and champion point progress on that value. If the player is below the Target CP, the receive more enlightenment. The degree of increased enlightenment is proportional to the degree they are below the Target CP. Likewise the cost of gaining CP should be tied proportionally to the Target CP. Those with 2000 CP will have to earn an extreme amount of CP to gain additional CP -- yet their progression is not permanently halted. Those with 1 CP point will have to earn far less per CP.

In this way everyone gets to enjoy the CP they've earned, yet those who are behind will still have to put some effort into earning CP but they will catch up to the Target CP much easier.

Why adopt this model other than because it is fair? Because ZOS still needs to make money. They want people to buy their XP boost scrolls. If there are hard caps on CP people aren't going to buy XP boosts if they exceed the cap. These caps hurt their own business model where a scaled proportional approach still allows progression but will slow it to the point that the average CP is closer to the Target CP for all.

Apologies if this approach has already been proposed -- I didn't have the time to read all the posts.

Sausage

No, I earned all my CP and want to use them

I would have preferred on-going progression but lets see what they have planned. I suppose they have came up with better idea. I wouldnt have kept it as on-going progression, put own leaderboards for CPs, reward the best ones, catch-up is choice between grind in IC or buy boosters from Crown Store.