Nerf shield stacking!

pkb16_ESO2 · July 2015

It has been said a lot and its quite obvious that shield stacking is too strong.
With the new lesser TTK the thing had become even worse. Its true that shield got a slight nerf of 5% in comparison, but because of the bigger time to react it is no real disadvantage. Its impossible to burst someone down between the shield recasts.
So please make shields not stackable! If a player has a shield up and casts another one the first shield should disappear.
This change was often suggested and imo seems easy to implement and a good solution.
Hardened Ward will still be very strong and a good sorc defense.
The state in pts right now is that a shield stacker (not only sorc) can live for ever in 1v1 situations.
That cant be desirable.
Regards

Dracane · July 2015

Seems like it is desirable, that basically everyone can live forever in 1v1 situations.
Not that I am a fan of this. I always prefered short fights

You do a mistake ? You die. Simple as that.
I do a mistake ? I die. Sad, but simple.

pkb16_ESO2 · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Seems like it is desirable, that basically everyone can live forever in 1v1 situations.
Not that I am a fan of this. I always prefered short fights You do a mistake ? You die. Simple as that.
I do a mistake ? I die. Sad, but simple.

Absolutely agree! Mistakes should kill you. Shield stacking avoids being killed at all, at least in 1v1 situations. So it should be changed.
They nerfed all the other def strategies (block, dodge, blink) why this one not?

tinythinker · July 2015

Plenty of people being killed even with damage shields in IC, especially non-sorcs, particularly by the top end players, and that's even without the new gear. If shields need changed more, great. But even if they change shields again, there will be plenty of sad pandas because the new meta doesn't allow them to burst-kill from stealth in 0.2 to 0.5 seconds or CC-and-kill in 2 seconds. With the current change to damage, those days are gone for all but the elite players, even if only one damage shield being is permitted at a time.

Leandor · July 2015

I feel like a broken record.

Having one shield or ten at the same time does not make a lick of a difference if you can recast one faster than your opponent(s) can break through it.

tinythinker · July 2015

Leandor wrote: »

I feel like a broken record.

Having one shield or ten at the same time does not make a lick of a difference if you can recast one faster than your opponent(s) can break through it.

Or if you get CCed at the right time, especially with low stam (esp with Mass Hysteria). That's more like given the damage reduction buff.

RinaldoGandolphi · July 2015

Its honestly not that bad, if you run out of stamina you die the same on PTS as you do on live, it just takes 1-2 hits more to kill you you.

At the end of the day they just need to get rid of damage sheilds and replace them with the Flesh line of spells from the School of alteration.

Aegis from Oblivion for Templars, Dragonskin for Sorcs, and Ebony Flesh for DK

All those spells give a 35% damage reduction from all sources for 8 seconds.

No more damage shields to break.

just a flat damage reduction, your still hitting their HP and not a shield, you will just do less damage. Its a fair balance between keeping someone from being 1 hit killed, and someone being near unkillable because they can keep extending their HP bar forever if need be. If your not Hard CC a Sorc he can recast Shields forever, and the Top Sorc's have enough stamina to break free ad infinituim as they ahve enough stamina regen to recover the break free cost, im refering to the Blue Drink Sorc builds out there.

Rioht · July 2015

Here's the catch though.

If a sorc loses their sheld. Their dead in 1 hit basically.

Character a, a non sorc can self heal. Character a takes 1000 damage and heals that 1000 damage.
Character b, a sorc has shields. Character b puts up a shield for 1000 damage and then mitigates 1000 damage.

End result is the same.

If you can Spam heals, or self heal to stay alive. Then a sorc has to have some way to do the same. Which shields are the ONLY WAY. We have NO heals. NONE. Okay?

Dracane · July 2015

Rioht wrote: »

Here's the catch though.

If a sorc loses their sheld. Their dead in 1 hit basically.

Character a, a non sorc can self heal. Character a takes 1000 damage and heals that 1000 damage.
Character b, a sorc has shields. Character b puts up a shield for 1000 damage and then mitigates 1000 damage.

End result is the same.

If you can Spam heals, or self heal to stay alive. Then a sorc has to have some way to do the same. Which shields are the ONLY WAY. We have NO heals. NONE. Okay?

Right. Sorcerer has no self heal and no other survival mechanic anymore besides their shield.
Thats how this class was designed. No heal, but strong class shield that scales with magicka.

I've seen healing on pts and Templars and DKs still heal themselves back to full health in seconds.

Leandor · July 2015

My V10 sorc with V1-V3 non optimized equipment with according enchants and V5 food, crits Blessing of Restoration for 7k, which is pretty much 50% of my health bar.

Maulkin · July 2015

Rioht wrote: »

Here's the catch though.

If a sorc loses their sheld. Their dead in 1 hit basically.

Character a, a non sorc can self heal. Character a takes 1000 damage and heals that 1000 damage.
Character b, a sorc has shields. Character b puts up a shield for 1000 damage and then mitigates 1000 damage.

End result is the same.

If you can Spam heals, or self heal to stay alive. Then a sorc has to have some way to do the same. Which shields are the ONLY WAY. We have NO heals. NONE. Okay?

There is a massive difference between shields and heals.

a) Heals are reactive and shields are proactive. You can't heal above 100% HP. But you can put a shield which will in effect increase your HP by the shield size. Which means you are far less susceptible to damage bursts from stealth etc. when you have a shield on, because you have more total hit points

b) Shields are preventing crits. So that 1000 damage you describe above could be 1.5k if it crits on the class with the heals. But if you have shields up it will never crit. At least they fixed the issue where certain CC effects (Defensive Posture, Destructive Touch etc) were not being applied on people with shields.

I mean I'm a sorc and all, but I'm not gonna lie shields are now the strongest defense mechanic by a large margin.

timidobserver · July 2015

We do not need anymore blanket shield changes when the problem is limited to one class.

pkb16_ESO2 · July 2015

Rioht wrote: »

Here's the catch though.

If a sorc loses their sheld. Their dead in 1 hit basically.

Character a, a non sorc can self heal. Character a takes 1000 damage and heals that 1000 damage.
Character b, a sorc has shields. Character b puts up a shield for 1000 damage and then mitigates 1000 damage.

End result is the same.

If you can Spam heals, or self heal to stay alive. Then a sorc has to have some way to do the same. Which shields are the ONLY WAY. We have NO heals. NONE. Okay?

Ah another sorc that talks just BS! At least u guys became more rare...
1) shield is better than heal because no crit chance
2) shield is better because no effects like heal reduce.
3) on Pts u are not dead in 1 hit and u can recast the shield

And lets talk about the heal... im a templar as main guess what heal i use when soloing? healing ward best solo heal in game.
Also available (and used at leased by the good ones/ so probably not by u) sorc...

Saturn · July 2015

Rioht wrote: »

Here's the catch though.

If a sorc loses their sheld. Their dead in 1 hit basically.

Character a, a non sorc can self heal. Character a takes 1000 damage and heals that 1000 damage.
Character b, a sorc has shields. Character b puts up a shield for 1000 damage and then mitigates 1000 damage.

End result is the same.

If you can Spam heals, or self heal to stay alive. Then a sorc has to have some way to do the same. Which shields are the ONLY WAY. We have NO heals. NONE. Okay?

Most sorcs run a resto staff for the Healing Ward, which usually restores most of your health if the ward isn't broken ...

Not to mention that Sorcerers are able to get the highest amount of magicka out of any class (my *** sorc has 40k pretty easily), which means that they can spam Shields / Wards infinitely if they have enough regen.

ToRelax · July 2015

If they wanted to tone down shields, they failed miserably at it.
If that will make them "nerf" shields again acros the board, I lol.

actosh · July 2015

All u would need to fix is give shields the Major shiel and minor shield. Problem solved.
But Eric Wrobel wont let that happen ^^

Dracane · July 2015

actosh wrote: »

But Eric Wrobel wont let that happen ^^

Because he's not a lunatic.

Zanen · July 2015

timidobserver wrote: »

We do not need anymore blanket shield changes when the problem is limited to one class.

I don't believe the problem is limited to one class.

I think there's one class where people were already building in a way that works with the new meta and has a very strong shield that scales with their primary resource.

If the patch went live in its current state every class would stack shields, gameplay wouldn't be fun at all even if it were balanced if this is the meta.

bosmern_ESO · July 2015

ZoS tried nerfing sorcs getting a lot of shields, it actually buffed them and killed Templars only damage shield, now templars have only one self buff ability, which is focus rune. RiP sun shield.

Zsymon · July 2015

Cyrodil shouldn't be balanced around 1v1 fights. If shield stacking is too strong in a group situation, which it isn't, then it should be changed.

Dracane · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Cyrodil shouldn't be balanced around 1v1 fights. If shield stacking is too strong in a group situation, which it isn't, then it should be changed.

100% agree. Shields are not too strong in group fights by any means.
Yes, you can of course absorb good amounts of damage with it. But it's not over the top.

olemanwinter · July 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Seems like it is desirable, that basically everyone can live forever in 1v1 situations.
Not that I am a fan of this. I always prefered short fights You do a mistake ? You die. Simple as that.
I do a mistake ? I die. Sad, but simple.

Now all that matters is who has another person show up.

I had a 1v1 with an AD and it was super fun.

Since then, before I could complete ANY 1v1 fight another person has showed up from my side or there's and that's it.

olemanwinter · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Cyrodil shouldn't be balanced around 1v1 fights. If shield stacking is too strong in a group situation, which it isn't, then it should be changed.

By group situation do you mean 8 people attacking 1 guy with shield stacking?

If you mean 8 v 8 (for example), what if all 8 on one side are shield stacking and all 8 on the other side are not?

Would shield stacking be too strong in that situation? Pretty sure yes it would.

Imbalance is imbalance is imbalance.

If player A can never kill player B because of an inherent imbalance in abilities, the answer isn't to tell Player A to try again when he can bring players C, D, E F, and G.

olemanwinter · July 2015

Saturn wrote: »

Not to mention that Sorcerers are able to get the highest amount of magicka out of any class (my *** sorc has 40k pretty easily), which means that they can spam Shields / Wards infinitely if they have enough regen.

But they nerfed magica regen into the ground!!!!

Oh wait, that was stamina regen.

Dracane · July 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Seems like it is desirable, that basically everyone can live forever in 1v1 situations.
Not that I am a fan of this. I always prefered short fights You do a mistake ? You die. Simple as that.
I do a mistake ? I die. Sad, but simple.

Now all that matters is who has another person show up.

I had a 1v1 with an AD and it was super fun.

Since then, before I could complete ANY 1v1 fight another person has showed up from my side or there's and that's it.

I'm having similar problems. If I am aware, I have to face several enemies, I have no real problems doing it and winning the fight.

But when I'm in combat, I totally focus on this one enemy. I adapt to his damage output and so on. But if a 2nd one shows up suddenly, it results in my death quite often because I wasn't prepared.

ItsRejectz · July 2015

L2P

Xsorus · July 2015

Zsymon wrote: »

Cyrodil shouldn't be balanced around 1v1 fights. If shield stacking is too strong in a group situation, which it isn't, then it should be changed.

I'm sorry, this is blatantly wrong.

The only time you should have something like

2 DPS = 1 Defensive Measure

is when you are dealing with something like a Full Support Class...For example a Warden in Rift would be a good example, If one DPS could instantly kill a Warden in that game no one would play a Healer

A sorc in this game is no pure healer.. Its a DPS class, and in case you don't know 1 DPS = 1 DPS in most MMOs..Meaning balancing a Defensive Mechanic around being able to sustain against a group of players on a DPS class is just downright silly..and frankly hilarious

Dracane · July 2015

ItsRejectz wrote: »

L2P

I didn't even complain O.o it's a natural thing. The element of surprise is dangerous.
Has nothing to do with learn to play.

Faulgor · July 2015

Saturn wrote: »

Rioht wrote: »

Here's the catch though.

If a sorc loses their sheld. Their dead in 1 hit basically.

Character a, a non sorc can self heal. Character a takes 1000 damage and heals that 1000 damage.
Character b, a sorc has shields. Character b puts up a shield for 1000 damage and then mitigates 1000 damage.

End result is the same.

If you can Spam heals, or self heal to stay alive. Then a sorc has to have some way to do the same. Which shields are the ONLY WAY. We have NO heals. NONE. Okay?

Most sorcs run a resto staff for the Healing Ward, which usually restores most of your health if the ward isn't broken ...

Not to mention that Sorcerers are able to get the highest amount of magicka out of any class (my *** sorc has 40k pretty easily), which means that they can spam Shields / Wards infinitely if they have enough regen.

Why? The only buff to magicka Sorcs get is through bound aegis, which Nightblades can get with magicka flood passive.

But I can't even fathom how to reach 40k magicka, so maybe there's something I'm overlooking.

Regardless, would it help if shields that scale with magicka scaled to current magicka instead of maximum magicka?

Zsymon · July 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Seems like it is desirable, that basically everyone can live forever in 1v1 situations.
Not that I am a fan of this. I always prefered short fights You do a mistake ? You die. Simple as that.
I do a mistake ? I die. Sad, but simple.

Now all that matters is who has another person show up.

I had a 1v1 with an AD and it was super fun.

Since then, before I could complete ANY 1v1 fight another person has showed up from my side or there's and that's it.

And that's exactly how it should be.

Saturn · August 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

Regardless, would it help if shields that scale with magicka scaled to current magicka instead of maximum magicka?

It would I suppose help some, but you would just have sorcerers running dark ritual to regain magicka, really would not help with the overall problem of shields being too overpowered regardless of nerfs.

Sidenote: to get 40k magicka I run, 5 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy, pieces of armour, for the 6% increase of stats from undaunted tree. Then 8% extra (I think) from Aegis and then a bit extra with Inner Light (+ the mage guild passive) and that, + all attributes / enchants in magicka should do it for you. With Blue magicka/health food I still maintain about 17k health outside of Cyrodiil, so not a super glasscannon build either.