2.1 PTS patch notes -- Stamina sorcs taking it hard in all the wrong places.

CP5

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

This is the worst shift for stamina sorcs imaginable.

What we gained:
A stamina boundless storm -- USELESS .. We don't have spell pierce!!
Increased stam regen from dark exchange
Longer surge duration lower process cooldown -- now those random heals will be slightly less unpredictable/unreliable/still trash

What we lost:
Ball of lightning duration reduced to 1.5 seconds -- one of our ONLY defences when retreating or finding cover where there is none
BE cost nerf -- now we can only cast it twice, period
Dodge roll nerf -- our only other defence when retreating
Stamina regen stopped while blocking -- block builds further beaten down
Werewolf stamina regen bonus -- because Stam regen wasn't bad enough already

THIS IS [snip].

Edit I was wrong about dark exchange camges affect both morphs

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Just switch to magicka build. It is a SORCERER after all....Wow...Unbelievable.

Sorcerer, from all the past elder scrolls games descriptions.

Arena - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Sorcerer

Daggerfall - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Intrinsic_Classes

Morrowing - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Sorcerer

Oblivion - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Sorcerer

Skyrim - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Classes

In all cases they are skilled with weapons and armor, even up to skyrim they had a talent for Heavy armor. And lets not forget they have little to no magicka regen in some of the games, hard to be a pure mage with that to work around.

Since when does ZOS care about previous TES games when it comes to combat? With the exception of the mouse clicks there is little in common with the previous games.

Zos explicitly stated repeatedly in its advertisement of this game that players will have the option to play how they want. Currently, it isn't reasonable to play a stam sorcs competitively in 1vX.

It is not unreasonable to ask for 1vX viability.

Play as you want doesn't mean you buy a car and cry when it doesn't float like a boat. Buy boat if you want to go out on the lake.

The classes aren't cars and boats, they are engines if anything. Some are more efficient, some more powerful, others faster or with their own unique quirks. The class is the base you build off of, not the defining thing you must be. And why does every discussion about increasing sorcerer flexibility come down to a few people who are so focused on keeping the class "their way" that we can't come up with compromises and instead spend our time fighting?

CP5

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

This is the worst shift for stamina sorcs imaginable.

What we gained:
A stamina boundless storm -- USELESS .. We don't have spell pierce!!
Increased stam regen from dark exchange
Longer surge duration lower process cooldown -- now those random heals will be slightly less unpredictable/unreliable/still trash

What we lost:
Ball of lightning duration reduced to 1.5 seconds -- one of our ONLY defences when retreating or finding cover where there is none
BE cost nerf -- now we can only cast it twice, period
Dodge roll nerf -- our only other defence when retreating
Stamina regen stopped while blocking -- block builds further beaten down
Werewolf stamina regen bonus -- because Stam regen wasn't bad enough already

THIS IS [snip].

Edit I was wrong about dark exchange camges affect both morphs

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Just switch to magicka build. It is a SORCERER after all....Wow...Unbelievable.

Sorcerer, from all the past elder scrolls games descriptions.

Arena - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Arena:Classes#Sorcerer

Daggerfall - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Intrinsic_Classes

Morrowing - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Classes#Sorcerer

Oblivion - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Classes#Sorcerer

Skyrim - http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Classes

In all cases they are skilled with weapons and armor, even up to skyrim they had a talent for Heavy armor. And lets not forget they have little to no magicka regen in some of the games, hard to be a pure mage with that to work around.

Did you even READ the descriptions you linked to?

From Morrowind:

Though spellcasters by vocation, sorcerers rely most on summonings and enchantments. They are greedy for magic scrolls, rings, armor and weapons, and commanding undead and Daedric servants gratifies their egos.

And in Skyrim the NPC Sorcerers were granted 2 Health, 3 Magicka, and 1 point of Stamina per level. Hardly a stamina powerhouse.

Yes, but again all classes in eso are mages to the same degree. Night blades are mages just as much as sorcerers, but I don't see people going crazy about night blades being both casters and stamina based fighters. Also in skyrim sorcerer npcs had a focus on heavy armor, the pure mage a lot of people say the class should be doesn't include heavy armor.

Korah_Eaglecry

Cathexis wrote: »

This is the worst shift for stamina sorcs imaginable.

What we gained:
A stamina boundless storm -- USELESS .. We don't have spell pierce!!
Increased stam regen from dark exchange
Longer surge duration with lower proc cooldown -- now those random heals will be slightly less unpredictable/unreliable/still trash

What we lost:
Ball of lightning duration reduced to 1.5 seconds -- one of our ONLY defences when retreating or finding cover where there is none
BE cost nerf -- now we can only cast it twice, period
Dodge roll nerf -- our only other defence when retreating
Stamina regen stopped while blocking -- block builds further beaten down
Werewolf stamina regen bonus -- because Stam regen wasn't bad enough already

THIS IS BS.

Edit I was wrong about dark exchange changes affect both morphs

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Im fine with the Bolt Escape cost. But it seems like theyve like usual nerfed more then they should have.

Cathexis

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

This is what baffles me about people complaining about stamina sorcs. It's like giving someone a choice between a gun and a knife and then them complaining that their knife isn't sharp enough. Use the damn gun!

There are lots of players who want stamina sorcs to be viable options and they should be. I wasn't given a choice, I rolled an orc sorcs before patches and patches of changes and before 1.6 when health stacking was the way to go, before my radials were changed, too.

You arent welcome in this thread, you aren't being constructive about the problem and you clearly don't understand why it is a problem and have no understanding of the idea that build viability should be universal and not a cookie cutter contest.

It has nothing to do with that. The fact is you want to take the class that works wonderful and has incredible versatility as a magicka build and tear it apart because you're not satisfied with it. There is nothing wrong with the class except that it doesn't use the weapons you want as well as you think it should. Those that want a stamina sorc are in the minority. Many of us are very happy with the class the way it is and have been very loyal to it even with the nerfs. Stop trying to kill our fun so that you can be happy. Selfish.

WHAT
THE
*** ARE YOU EVEN TALKING ABOUT


IT IS POSSIBLE TO BALANCE SORCS SO THAT (A) they do not lose their ability to be magicka based and (B) to embrace all weapon styles.

I NEVER SAID ANYTHNG ABOUT NERFING MAGICKA SORCS, AND STAM SORCS ARE NOT A MINORITY, THERE IS A VERY REAL PLAYER BASE DEMANDING STAMINA REFORMS

YOU CAN TELL YOU ALSO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT STAM SORC ISSUES.
Weapon synergy is not the problem.

The problem is damage is too low, no defence pierce, no offensive class abilities, no sustainable stam regen or defensive abilities, and comparatively poor mobility

VIRTUALLY EVERY PROBLEM BUT WEAPON SYNERGY

YOU ARE A DOOSH CANOE .

ontheleftcoast

Cathexis wrote: »

Why even offer sorcerer classes to Stam based races at all if they aren't going to be viable to play?

Because it might be hard as hell to figure out how to play them but there will be someone who figures it out. One of the things I loved doing in Skyrim, hell -- all the Elder Scrolls games and many other RPGs -- was figuring out how to play against type. Like donning heavy armor and becoming a master thief. Or never advancing in level yet completing the game. It irked me when Dawnstar was released and I had to hit level 10 to unlock the content. Grr...

Your definition of "viable" isn't the same as other peoples. For example I don't think 1vX combat against other players shouldn't be easily survivable for *ANYONE* in my opinion. That you can do it with anything short of being the Emperor is more a sign that other class/race combos are broken and not that stamina Sorcerers need to be made capable of it.

Cathexis

k2blader wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Give people a chance.

Each of us must sacrifise defensive things for the upcoming Update. Since damage is reduced so much in PvP, people would have NO chance if you could just roll dodge all the time and block 24/7 and keep Ball of Lightning up all the time.

We don't even know numbers. Maybe thundering presence hits very hard (it does, if we believe in Eric Wrobel)

Anyway, I'm a bit angry. It seems to me, that people want Sorcerer to be the best Stamina class of all, while it already is a great caster. Sorcerer has decent stamina tools, that no other class has. (more utlity based, less offensive though.)
You cannot expect Sorcerer to be the best at everything. If Sorcerer is a better stamina class than Dragonknight and Nightblade, yes even Templar, then something is not right.

If I'm reading you right, I generally agree. I think sorcs have been designed to be the ranged magic damage class, at least in PvP. I don't really understand how a stamina sorc would work unless you made sorcs abilities morphable to use stamina, which just wouldn't make sense IMO.. (I don't know lore anything, so if people are going to argue lore I can only shrug-- sorry, take that stuff up with Zeni. -_-)

If we don't get the same choice every class has had since 1.6, we should be given race changes. If There is no point in being a stamina race as a caster, they shouldn't offer it as an option

Also if you read up on the countless threads about stam sorc changes, you would see there are a number of viable alternatives for stam based morphs or stam compatible skills (specifically low magicka cost stamina class buffs, additional stamina bonuses on passives, and much more).

Just because it is difficult to achieve in a way that respects lore does not mean it is impossible. Many people have come up with creative changes. Zen themselves have even shown this with dark exchange.

It isn't impossible it just requires creativity which is what the game is about.

Andsuppose you are a magicka sorcs, who stands to lose nothing from the addition of stamina benefits, why do you even care?

Maotti

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

This is the worst shift for stamina sorcs imaginable.

What we gained:
A stamina boundless storm -- USELESS .. We don't have spell pierce!!
Increased stam regen from dark exchange
Longer surge duration lower process cooldown -- now those random heals will be slightly less unpredictable/unreliable/still trash

What we lost:
Ball of lightning duration reduced to 1.5 seconds -- one of our ONLY defences when retreating or finding cover where there is none
BE cost nerf -- now we can only cast it twice, period
Dodge roll nerf -- our only other defence when retreating
Stamina regen stopped while blocking -- block builds further beaten down
Werewolf stamina regen bonus -- because Stam regen wasn't bad enough already

THIS IS [snip].

Edit I was wrong about dark exchange camges affect both morphs

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Just switch to magicka build. It is a SORCERER after all....Wow...Unbelievable.

I'm a hardcore sorc fan and i agree with this, away with any stam morphs. Stamina is just not viable for sorcs.

Cathexis

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Why even offer sorcerer classes to Stam based races at all if they aren't going to be viable to play?

Good question. I think you're onto something. I think ZOS should just lock out "stamina based races" from playing as sorcs.

Just leave,

Now,

Please. You have nothing valuable to contribute here.

Averya_Teira

CP5 wrote: »

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

Part of me wants to feel bad for stamina sorcerers then I remember that they're MAGIC users and the feeling passes.

This is eso, there is no "magic" class. Every class, any role. Class adds a unique angle for each class to fill their role. I don't want to dig up the elder scrolls definitions of sorcerers again either...

ZOS said you CAN play the way you want. They NEVER said it would be OPTIMAL though.....

Cathexis

Maotti_Nor wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

This is the worst shift for stamina sorcs imaginable.

What we gained:
A stamina boundless storm -- USELESS .. We don't have spell pierce!!
Increased stam regen from dark exchange
Longer surge duration lower process cooldown -- now those random heals will be slightly less unpredictable/unreliable/still trash

What we lost:
Ball of lightning duration reduced to 1.5 seconds -- one of our ONLY defences when retreating or finding cover where there is none
BE cost nerf -- now we can only cast it twice, period
Dodge roll nerf -- our only other defence when retreating
Stamina regen stopped while blocking -- block builds further beaten down
Werewolf stamina regen bonus -- because Stam regen wasn't bad enough already

THIS IS [snip].

Edit I was wrong about dark exchange camges affect both morphs

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Just switch to magicka build. It is a SORCERER after all....Wow...Unbelievable.

I'm a hardcore sorc fan and i agree with this, away with any stam morphs. Stamina is just not viable for sorcs.

Until 1.6 stamina hybrids were perfectly viable for sorcs, because we had access to useful sorcs abilities which have now been relegated to magicka users only as a result of scaling changes and the removal of stat caps.

Averya_Teira wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

Part of me wants to feel bad for stamina sorcerers then I remember that they're MAGIC users and the feeling passes.

This is eso, there is no "magic" class. Every class, any role. Class adds a unique angle for each class to fill their role. I don't want to dig up the elder scrolls definitions of sorcerers again either...

ZOS said you CAN play the way you want. They NEVER said it would be OPTIMAL though.....

Which is the problem being addressed here. If stamina sorcs builds are going to be offered, they need to be competitive in all areas like EVERY OTHER STAMINA CLASS.

As stated previously in this thread, a magicka nightblade is no less a mage than a magicka sorcerer, yet you dont see everyone screaming that all night blades should be stamina.

It is a *** justification to say that sorcerers should only be mages, just to keep some players down.

TBois

Bottomline is that ZOS wants to make stam sorcs more viable They have said so, and they are actively changing the game to do so. Their changes are bad though and won't help many stam sorcs

Acrolas

Imperial Stam Sorç can stack Red Diamond (passive) and Invigorating Bash (CP bonus) with 1H and Shield, then switch to bow for ranged attacks. Keep enough magicka for your pets and play it more like a hunter build with medium armor.

I kind of wish they'd alter the Familiar/Clannfear/Twilight so that the actual abilities stay the the same but you could choose from some different pet skins. Sorç would feel immediately fresher if it were a little more than just Club Clannfear.

Cathexis

sixuponthelot wrote: »

Bottomline is that ZOS wants to make stam sorcs more viable They have said so, and they are actively changing the game to do so. Their changes are bad though and won't help many stam sorcs

This exactly, so making comments about how stam sorcs should be banned is not only counterproductive, but also futile.

Cathexis

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Akavir_Sentinel wrote: »

So sorcs pretty much just block, dodge, take cover, or run away? Do sorcs ever actually fight?

+1

Most Sorcs I fought either pop 6 shields up covering there entire health or as soon as the took 1 hit they just blink away with that lovely BE.

Neither of which apply to stamina sorcs who don't have access to stamina scaling shields or long range bolt escaping.

TBois

Rune cage seems to be insta cast on the pts. Could be used as a set up to wrecking blow like petrify. Also rune cage + soul assault will be fun

OzJohnD

satire ?

OzJohnD

DirtySouth

And they are right you can play any role with any class you want. They never said it would be any good tho.... Cry babies

Acrolas

Cathexis wrote: »

Zos explicitly stated repeatedly in its advertisement of this game that players will have the option to play how they want.

Because only the CAPITAL LETTERS matter and not the context.

Cathexis

sixuponthelot wrote: »

Rune cage seems to be insta cast on the pts. Could be used as a set up to wrecking blow like petrify. Also rune cage + soul assault will be fun

except runecage just prompts a cc break which grants 5 seconds of immunity so its not exactly spectacular as an option.

Cathexis

DirtySouth wrote: »

And they are right you can play any role with any class you want. They never said it would be any good tho.... Cry babies

Which is the problem being addressed here. If stamina sorcs builds are going to be offered, they need to be competitive in all areas like EVERY OTHER STAMINA CLASS.

If they didnt intend for stamina sorcs to be a class that is viable, they shouldn't offer it as a play option.

Mojmir

I run a stamina sorc,honestly the stam morph to BA is

Acrolas wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Zos explicitly stated repeatedly in its advertisement of this game that players will have the option to play how they want.

Because only the CAPITAL LETTERS matter and not the context.

I wanna play standing next my horse: (

Faulgor

We've been talking about this since 1.6 hit the PTS about half a year ago.
We made tons of great feedback in how to improve Sorcerers for stamina builds.
And after careful consideration for half a year, ZOS decided to add what nobody asked for: A stamina morph to Lightning Form.

What.

There's really nothing more to say or suggest. We did that for 6 months, and it had 0 effect.

Cathexis

Faulgor wrote: »

We've been talking about this since 1.6 hit the PTS about half a year ago.
We made tons of great feedback in how to improve Sorcerers for stamina builds.
And after careful consideration for half a year, ZOS decided to add what nobody asked for: A stamina morph to Lightning Form.

What.

There's really nothing more to say or suggest. We did that for 6 months, and it had 0 effect.

Apparently Dark Exchange is now one regen tick per cast, with a 1 second cast time on each tick.

This is rediculous... stam sorcs aren't even going to be playable.

Faulgor

Cathexis wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

We've been talking about this since 1.6 hit the PTS about half a year ago.
We made tons of great feedback in how to improve Sorcerers for stamina builds.
And after careful consideration for half a year, ZOS decided to add what nobody asked for: A stamina morph to Lightning Form.

What.

There's really nothing more to say or suggest. We did that for 6 months, and it had 0 effect.

Apparently Dark Exchange is now one regen tick per cast, with a 1 second cast time on each tick.

This is rediculous... stam sorcs aren't even going to be playable.

I always thought the Dark Exchange morphs should be toggles that increase 2 attribute regens at the expense of another. That's basically what they do anyway, and it would have made for some interesting and unique gameplay choices.
But instead they turned it into a cast-heal, because everyone loves those.

FriedEggSandwich

If we don't get the same choice every class has had since 1.6, we should be given race changes. If There is no point in being a stamina race as a caster, they shouldn't offer it as an option

Also if you read up on the countless threads about stam sorc changes, you would see there are a number of viable alternatives for stam based morphs or stam compatible skills (specifically low magicka cost stamina class buffs, additional stamina bonuses on passives, and much more).

Just because it is difficult to achieve in a way that respects lore does not mean it is impossible. Many people have come up with creative changes. Zen themselves have even shown this with dark exchange.

It isn't impossible it just requires creativity which is what the game is about.

Andsuppose you are a magicka sorcs, who stands to lose nothing from the addition of stamina benefits, why do you even care?

I'm not sure how I feel about stamina sorcs, I don't want to be one but I want them to exist. I don't want my morphs pinched though. The only suggestions I have read on how to improve stamina sorcs have been to turn currently existing magicka morphs, some of which I use, into stamina morphs. I'm sure it's clear why I would care about this. If stam sorcs can be brought up to scratch without affecting morphs that magicka sorcs use then great. If not then expect opposition from magicka sorcs.

Cathexis

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

If we don't get the same choice every class has had since 1.6, we should be given race changes. If There is no point in being a stamina race as a caster, they shouldn't offer it as an option

Also if you read up on the countless threads about stam sorc changes, you would see there are a number of viable alternatives for stam based morphs or stam compatible skills (specifically low magicka cost stamina class buffs, additional stamina bonuses on passives, and much more).

Just because it is difficult to achieve in a way that respects lore does not mean it is impossible. Many people have come up with creative changes. Zen themselves have even shown this with dark exchange.

It isn't impossible it just requires creativity which is what the game is about.

Andsuppose you are a magicka sorcs, who stands to lose nothing from the addition of stamina benefits, why do you even care?

I'm not sure how I feel about stamina sorcs, I don't want to be one but I want them to exist. I don't want my morphs pinched though. The only suggestions I have read on how to improve stamina sorcs have been to turn currently existing magicka morphs, some of which I use, into stamina morphs. I'm sure it's clear why I would care about this. If stam sorcs can be brought up to scratch without affecting morphs that magicka sorcs use then great. If not then expect opposition from magicka sorcs.

I don't think any Stamina sorc wants to hurt the current magicka builds that exist. That's not our angle. We want Stamina builds to be equally playable to magicka builds in pvp.

That's all there is to it. It wouldn't be hard to add benefits to existing skills that extend Stamina sorcs, with no or little impact (positive I might add) on magicka builds.

True, it would be nice to have some stamina morphs, but most of those suggestions have been targeted at changing skills that magicka sorcs blatantly don't use, like the crystal blast morph.

Plus, don't you think its a bit rediculous that stamina sorcs get no defensive spells like a stamina scaling ward as a counterpart to a magicka scaling ward? It would be easy to implement this change. Just make both wards give bonuses to pet damage, and have one scale off stam and one scale off magicka. Easy peasy.

Certainly wouldn't make pet builds OP, they need all the help they can get anyway.

Same with the way they implemented the new storm armor to scale off stamina, make both of them give run speed, have one scale off stamina and one of magicka. (Not that I think this skill requires a stamina morph, no one wanted a stamina morph of this ability on either side of the argument it is stupid they implemented it, and the fact that they didn't implement the stamina morph to have a run speed increase shows how dumb they are and how little they know about stamina sorcs).

This is the kind of change I am talking about.

Faulgor

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

If we don't get the same choice every class has had since 1.6, we should be given race changes. If There is no point in being a stamina race as a caster, they shouldn't offer it as an option

Also if you read up on the countless threads about stam sorc changes, you would see there are a number of viable alternatives for stam based morphs or stam compatible skills (specifically low magicka cost stamina class buffs, additional stamina bonuses on passives, and much more).

Just because it is difficult to achieve in a way that respects lore does not mean it is impossible. Many people have come up with creative changes. Zen themselves have even shown this with dark exchange.

It isn't impossible it just requires creativity which is what the game is about.

Andsuppose you are a magicka sorcs, who stands to lose nothing from the addition of stamina benefits, why do you even care?

I'm not sure how I feel about stamina sorcs, I don't want to be one but I want them to exist. I don't want my morphs pinched though. The only suggestions I have read on how to improve stamina sorcs have been to turn currently existing magicka morphs, some of which I use, into stamina morphs. I'm sure it's clear why I would care about this. If stam sorcs can be brought up to scratch without affecting morphs that magicka sorcs use then great. If not then expect opposition from magicka sorcs.

I actually used Thundering Presence on my magicka Sorc, so I'm not happy about that change either way.
What stamina sorcs could gladly take are Crystal Blast, Encase or one of its morphs, Rune Prison or one of its morphs, Daedric mines or one of its morphs, and several passives.

Cathexis

Faulgor wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

If we don't get the same choice every class has had since 1.6, we should be given race changes. If There is no point in being a stamina race as a caster, they shouldn't offer it as an option

Also if you read up on the countless threads about stam sorc changes, you would see there are a number of viable alternatives for stam based morphs or stam compatible skills (specifically low magicka cost stamina class buffs, additional stamina bonuses on passives, and much more).

Just because it is difficult to achieve in a way that respects lore does not mean it is impossible. Many people have come up with creative changes. Zen themselves have even shown this with dark exchange.

It isn't impossible it just requires creativity which is what the game is about.

Andsuppose you are a magicka sorcs, who stands to lose nothing from the addition of stamina benefits, why do you even care?

I'm not sure how I feel about stamina sorcs, I don't want to be one but I want them to exist. I don't want my morphs pinched though. The only suggestions I have read on how to improve stamina sorcs have been to turn currently existing magicka morphs, some of which I use, into stamina morphs. I'm sure it's clear why I would care about this. If stam sorcs can be brought up to scratch without affecting morphs that magicka sorcs use then great. If not then expect opposition from magicka sorcs.

I actually used Thundering Presence on my magicka Sorc, so I'm not happy about that change either way.
What stamina sorcs could gladly take are Crystal Blast, Encase or one of its morphs, Rune Prison or one of its morphs, Daedric mines or one of its morphs, and several passives.

I don't think stamina sorcs even want wholly stamina abilities, we just want a few morphs that are actually useful.

FriedEggSandwich

Cathexis wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

If we don't get the same choice every class has had since 1.6, we should be given race changes. If There is no point in being a stamina race as a caster, they shouldn't offer it as an option

Also if you read up on the countless threads about stam sorc changes, you would see there are a number of viable alternatives for stam based morphs or stam compatible skills (specifically low magicka cost stamina class buffs, additional stamina bonuses on passives, and much more).

Just because it is difficult to achieve in a way that respects lore does not mean it is impossible. Many people have come up with creative changes. Zen themselves have even shown this with dark exchange.

It isn't impossible it just requires creativity which is what the game is about.

Andsuppose you are a magicka sorcs, who stands to lose nothing from the addition of stamina benefits, why do you even care?

I'm not sure how I feel about stamina sorcs, I don't want to be one but I want them to exist. I don't want my morphs pinched though. The only suggestions I have read on how to improve stamina sorcs have been to turn currently existing magicka morphs, some of which I use, into stamina morphs. I'm sure it's clear why I would care about this. If stam sorcs can be brought up to scratch without affecting morphs that magicka sorcs use then great. If not then expect opposition from magicka sorcs.

I don't think any Stamina sorc wants to hurt the current magicka builds that exist. That's not our angle. We want Stamina builds to be equally playable to magicka builds in pvp.

That's all there is to it. It wouldn't be hard to add benefits to existing skills that extend Stamina sorcs, with no or little impact (positive I might add) on magicka builds.

True, it would be nice to have some stamina morphs, but most of those suggestions have been targeted at changing skills that magicka sorcs blatantly don't use, like the crystal blast morph.

Plus, don't you think its a bit rediculous that stamina sorcs get no defensive spells like a stamina scaling ward as a counterpart to a magicka scaling ward? It would be easy to implement this change. Just make both wards give bonuses to pet damage, and have one scale off stam and one scale off magicka. Easy peasy.

Certainly wouldn't make pet builds OP, they need all the help they can get anyway.

Same with the way they implemented the new storm armor to scale off stamina, make both of them give run speed, have one scale off stamina and one of magicka. (Not that I think this skill requires a stamina morph, no one wanted a stamina morph of this ability on either side of the argument it is stupid they implemented it, and the fact that they didn't implement the stamina morph to have a run speed increase shows how dumb they are and how little they know about stamina sorcs).

This is the kind of change I am talking about.

It's a very tricky subject; there are people who use crystal blast (although I'm not sure why), it is unlikely there will be no losers if many sorc morphs go stamina. As for the ward issue, I agree you need a ward but I don't want hardened ward doing anything to pets. Pets will always be useless in pvp no matter how much damage you give them; they are too easy to kite while focusing the player that summoned them.

I have an idea; how about zos remove the daedric summoning skill line completely, give atronach to storm calling (and get rid of overload), and then give stam sorcs their own skill line?