Why crafted items should retain a +1 stat level bonus...

Egg_Death

I don't have a problem with equality for crafted gear, but there should still be a benefit to using it that is not purely based on appearances. I can't see why they wouldn't limit the trees to two or three trades, perhaps by using all trades in one tree where you have to make choices. It would be unlike the rest of the skills in the game, that's for sure, but isn't it already? I don't collect materials for leveling my restoration staff abilities, and I certainly don't research traits on two-handed sword fighting.

It is un-Elder-Scrolls-like to limit what a character can do, but I think with skill point reallocation you have that covered even if you limit things. It is fairly infeasible that one person could be a master clothier, armorer, woodworker, chef, alchemist, and enchanter.

But honestly no system is going to prevent career MMO players from dumping 80 hours a week into the game on 8 alts to break the system, and I see NO REASON to design the game around these people. The simplest fix for that is to just let them get bored of the game and move on. I would bet that the majority of players aren't going to give a crap about minor imbalances among endgame players. This one, at least, does not care at all.

Tors

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

SkinnyDG wrote: »

Someone take the cookie cutter out of zos hands please.

Cookie cutter? I thought they just smashed it with a rolling pin.

Exactly! @PsychoKRATOS1

Right now there is choice, enough choice that there is lively debate amoungst the players over what gear sets to equip, and this is over a year from release.

Bring in the new gear progression crap and you destroy what is central to this game for most people.


I dont play WoW because of its dumbed down mechanics and awfull elitest (sic?) gear system. Why introduce it to this game?

Bring in gear sets and alll the BIS crap you get with it, and in comes the cookie cutter builds. Yes you have a choice. The choice being, wear player crafted crap and pla ythe lower level dungeons or join the elite and wear the same set as the sucessfull people, because with the BIS, there is generally only one choice to make.

PsychoKRATOS1

Egg_Death wrote: »

It is un-Elder-Scrolls-like to limit what a character can do, but I think with skill point reallocation you have that covered even if you limit things. It is fairly infeasible that one person could be a master clothier, armorer, woodworker, chef, alchemist, and enchanter.

Not unfeasible at all my friend.
You can have multiple characters. Provisioning and alchemy. Blacksmithing and woodworking. Enchanting and clothier.

Have a main account that collects everything then have 3 other characters that have the other 3 classes trained up to do pvp with. I don't need to rely on others to make the best stuff since I can make it (up to 6 trait sets)

Flaminir

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Egg_Death wrote: »

It is un-Elder-Scrolls-like to limit what a character can do, but I think with skill point reallocation you have that covered even if you limit things. It is fairly infeasible that one person could be a master clothier, armorer, woodworker, chef, alchemist, and enchanter.

Not unfeasible at all my friend.
You can have multiple characters. Provisioning and alchemy. Blacksmithing and woodworking. Enchanting and clothier.

Have a main account that collects everything then have 3 other characters that have the other 3 classes trained up to do pvp with. I don't need to rely on others to make the best stuff since I can make it (up to 6 trait sets)

Ummmm... you don't even need to do that!

My main is maxed on all professions.. has every skill point in them that you need, has every class & weapon passive I need and all skills maxed for several different builds... and I still have a few skill points spare, and quite a few I haven't bothered to go and get yet.

Unless you are going for having everything unlocked without having to respec for every different possible role in the game then theres plenty of skill points to go full crafter on everything

ragespell

MaximusDargus wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

I'm a "master crafter." The problem I've had with crafting the best gear in the game is that I'm rarely excited about anything that drops in dungeons.

Yep, everyone and their vanity pet is a master crafter or can be trivially if they want. You can buy the finished goods for the cost of materials in 99.9999999999999 percent of circumstances at any hour day or night due to how common and easy it is. There is no difficulty in it. The cost is marginal, running around 25 to 30 thousand gold for enchanting at most, around 12k on each alchemist alt I have done on my mule, and less for the rest (provisioning clocks in at about 5k gold) . The only minute thing is the time gate on traits but as covered above that's easily worked around for the pieces you don't yet have maxed if you even bother to try to max them as there's no real benefit in doing so.

The easiest gear in the game that is also even bind on equip and available for chump change shouldn't be the most powerful and certainly not affected by just being brought to par by a while two spell or weapon power to match drops on the bonuses. Crafted gear is far too powerful and always has been, but this change openly and loudly announced at a major venue, doesn't change anything on that front.

UPrime wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I wonder how much more things zos will stealth nerf while they keep everyone busy with IC fireworks

Not saying this is a nerf or not, but how is this a stealth nerf? They openly said that they're going to do this in front of a crowd of people. There's nothing stealthy about it.

I don't think the term means what he thinks or is being used for dramatic effect to support the opinion. A stealth nerf is not announced, often not easily noticed and has an actual impact on the power of a skill or Item to significant effect that someone came across it in gameplay because it wasn't announced wasn't in the patch notes, and was never discussed beforehand. This... doesn't match any of those criteria .

Yup, easy is easy. BUT if ZOS will make a 10th trait, the researches time will be months.
So you have dropped loot that is readily available and crafted gears that could be months away.
What should be more powerfull?

No it wont be months for 10th trait. 4th passive caps research time at 30 days. no matter if its 10th 15th or ove 9000th

Yup, sorry forgot that. But you still have 3 research slots. So for a 5 pieces set, you'll have still to wait at least 2 months.
Or am I missing something again?

asteldian

Biggest mistake they ever made was try to make crafting so powerful. Games try and fail because if crafted is best they remove all incentive to make playing the content worthwhile.
Crafted gear already allows you to do all content which is better than many games where crafting lets you farm dungeons to get dropped gear for raids which gives you dropped gear for harder raids.
Currently for tank I use 5 of 12 crafted items end game.
PvP 7 of 12 crafted items.
DPS 4 of 12 crafted items.
Considering jewelry is not crafted that means its 5 of 9, 7 of 9, 4 of 9.
That is pretty damn craft heavy and it has nothing to do with the gear being +1.

Also, consider my dps which is the lowest use of crafting, if I swapped out to 8 of 9 crafted I lose only one spell power bonus for 4% crit, so yeah, a bit less damage but considering the ease of getting it that is amazing.

PsychoKRATOS1

Flaminir wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Egg_Death wrote: »

It is un-Elder-Scrolls-like to limit what a character can do, but I think with skill point reallocation you have that covered even if you limit things. It is fairly infeasible that one person could be a master clothier, armorer, woodworker, chef, alchemist, and enchanter.

Not unfeasible at all my friend.
You can have multiple characters. Provisioning and alchemy. Blacksmithing and woodworking. Enchanting and clothier.

Have a main account that collects everything then have 3 other characters that have the other 3 classes trained up to do pvp with. I don't need to rely on others to make the best stuff since I can make it (up to 6 trait sets)

Ummmm... you don't even need to do that!

My main is maxed on all professions.. has every skill point in them that you need, has every class & weapon passive I need and all skills maxed for several different builds... and I still have a few skill points spare, and quite a few I haven't bothered to go and get yet.

Unless you are going for having everything unlocked without having to respec for every different possible role in the game then theres plenty of skill points to go full crafter on everything

One character with everything.
Good to know, however I did this reading things people were saying like: you can only realistically have 2 professions maxed.
So I just did the whole one account for 2 ... another account for two more etc.

Means I use each one as a *mini bank* without the need to respec.

Flaminir

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Egg_Death wrote: »

It is un-Elder-Scrolls-like to limit what a character can do, but I think with skill point reallocation you have that covered even if you limit things. It is fairly infeasible that one person could be a master clothier, armorer, woodworker, chef, alchemist, and enchanter.

Not unfeasible at all my friend.
You can have multiple characters. Provisioning and alchemy. Blacksmithing and woodworking. Enchanting and clothier.

Have a main account that collects everything then have 3 other characters that have the other 3 classes trained up to do pvp with. I don't need to rely on others to make the best stuff since I can make it (up to 6 trait sets)

Ummmm... you don't even need to do that!

My main is maxed on all professions.. has every skill point in them that you need, has every class & weapon passive I need and all skills maxed for several different builds... and I still have a few skill points spare, and quite a few I haven't bothered to go and get yet.

Unless you are going for having everything unlocked without having to respec for every different possible role in the game then theres plenty of skill points to go full crafter on everything

One character with everything.
Good to know, however I did this reading things people were saying like: you can only realistically have 2 professions maxed.
So I just did the whole one account for 2 ... another account for two more etc.

Means I use each one as a *mini bank* without the need to respec.

Yep... thats a nice solution too... helps with inventory management for sure

I ended up sending crafting stuff to my alts after a while anyway so they could decon, level up & get the decent hirelings... then at least you get a nice stream of top level mats after a while, and technically most characters are then levelled, even if they only have the hireling/level passive sin use.

PsychoKRATOS1

Flaminir wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Egg_Death wrote: »

It is un-Elder-Scrolls-like to limit what a character can do, but I think with skill point reallocation you have that covered even if you limit things. It is fairly infeasible that one person could be a master clothier, armorer, woodworker, chef, alchemist, and enchanter.

Not unfeasible at all my friend.
You can have multiple characters. Provisioning and alchemy. Blacksmithing and woodworking. Enchanting and clothier.

Have a main account that collects everything then have 3 other characters that have the other 3 classes trained up to do pvp with. I don't need to rely on others to make the best stuff since I can make it (up to 6 trait sets)

Ummmm... you don't even need to do that!

My main is maxed on all professions.. has every skill point in them that you need, has every class & weapon passive I need and all skills maxed for several different builds... and I still have a few skill points spare, and quite a few I haven't bothered to go and get yet.

Unless you are going for having everything unlocked without having to respec for every different possible role in the game then theres plenty of skill points to go full crafter on everything

One character with everything.
Good to know, however I did this reading things people were saying like: you can only realistically have 2 professions maxed.
So I just did the whole one account for 2 ... another account for two more etc.

Means I use each one as a *mini bank* without the need to respec.

Yep... thats a nice solution too... helps with inventory management for sure

I ended up sending crafting stuff to my alts after a while anyway so they could decon, level up & get the decent hirelings... then at least you get a nice stream of top level mats after a while, and technically most characters are then levelled, even if they only have the hireling/level passive sin use.

Well thanks for the tips and the insight mate

Tors

Have all maxed on your main,

1. Keep metal, wood and cloth fully maxed (remove the visual clues for the nodes and the research timers when you are done)
2. Keep all provisioning on main
3. on enchanting have it maxed to 50 but only put points into potency improovement (the skill that allows you to create the monumental glyphs) and 3 into hirlings
4. on alchemy have it maxed to 50 like all the others but only put points into solvency proficency to allow you to create VR5 potions
5. move those components of alchemy and enchantment required to create decent potions and legendary glyphs to a second character (it doesent matter which one, you DO have 8 characters fully maxed to 50 with all hireling dont you?)

This allows you almost everything of any use on the single charactrer, and allows for all your characters to have hirlings giving you stuff daily.

Your should also have the ability to craft writs on each character, which means having them all VR1 at the mimimum so you have access to Craglorn to hand in the writs

PsychoKRATOS1

Tors wrote: »

Have all maxed on your main,

1. Keep metal, wood and cloth fully maxed (remove the visual clues for the nodes and the research timers when you are done)
2. Keep all provisioning on main
3. on enchanting have it maxed to 50 but only put points into potency improovement (the skill that allows you to create the monumental glyphs) and 3 into hirlings
4. on alchemy have it maxed to 50 like all the others but only put points into solvency proficency to allow you to create VR5 potions
5. move those components of alchemy and enchantment required to create decent potions and legendary glyphs to a second character (it doesent matter which one, you DO have 8 characters fully maxed to 50 with all hireling dont you?)

This allows you almost everything of any use on the single charactrer, and allows for all your characters to have hirlings giving you stuff daily.

Your should also have the ability to craft writs on each character, which means having them all VR1 at the mimimum so you have access to Craglorn to hand in the writs

My console characters all have hirelings and 50 provisioning/alchemy not even played long enough to have 8 vr1 only a vr8 and a second vr1 :P

I still believe crafted items should have a better stat ratio. Homemade is always best
Good idea to mix n match armour types? Like light and heavy etc?

firstdecan

ragespell wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

ragespell wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Jando wrote: »

I'm a "master crafter." The problem I've had with crafting the best gear in the game is that I'm rarely excited about anything that drops in dungeons.

Yep, everyone and their vanity pet is a master crafter or can be trivially if they want. You can buy the finished goods for the cost of materials in 99.9999999999999 percent of circumstances at any hour day or night due to how common and easy it is. There is no difficulty in it. The cost is marginal, running around 25 to 30 thousand gold for enchanting at most, around 12k on each alchemist alt I have done on my mule, and less for the rest (provisioning clocks in at about 5k gold) . The only minute thing is the time gate on traits but as covered above that's easily worked around for the pieces you don't yet have maxed if you even bother to try to max them as there's no real benefit in doing so.

The easiest gear in the game that is also even bind on equip and available for chump change shouldn't be the most powerful and certainly not affected by just being brought to par by a while two spell or weapon power to match drops on the bonuses. Crafted gear is far too powerful and always has been, but this change openly and loudly announced at a major venue, doesn't change anything on that front.

UPrime wrote: »

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I wonder how much more things zos will stealth nerf while they keep everyone busy with IC fireworks

Not saying this is a nerf or not, but how is this a stealth nerf? They openly said that they're going to do this in front of a crowd of people. There's nothing stealthy about it.

I don't think the term means what he thinks or is being used for dramatic effect to support the opinion. A stealth nerf is not announced, often not easily noticed and has an actual impact on the power of a skill or Item to significant effect that someone came across it in gameplay because it wasn't announced wasn't in the patch notes, and was never discussed beforehand. This... doesn't match any of those criteria .

Yup, easy is easy. BUT if ZOS will make a 10th trait, the researches time will be months.
So you have dropped loot that is readily available and crafted gears that could be months away.
What should be more powerfull?

No it wont be months for 10th trait. 4th passive caps research time at 30 days. no matter if its 10th 15th or ove 9000th

Yup, sorry forgot that. But you still have 3 research slots. So for a 5 pieces set, you'll have still to wait at least 2 months.
Or am I missing something again?

You're not missing anything, but you could realistically make 3 heavy then 2 cloth \ hides (or vice versa), and only have to wait a month.

dsalter

just apply the bonus to ONLY the crafter of said items.
crafter gets his gear, others cant benifit as hard from slamming gold on a table.

Kuroinu

I always thought it was a great idea to have a stat bonus on crafted gear. While dropped gear from Trials/Dungeons would always have those unique buffs i.e. that activate when certain conditions are met. This kept both dropped and crafted gear having close-to-equal worth.

Rinmaethodain

dsalter wrote: »

just apply the bonus to ONLY the crafter of said items.
crafter gets his gear, others cant benifit as hard from slamming gold on a table.

Worst idea ive seen in a while (almost as bad as "0 stamina regen while blocking")

Curtischoy

The only crafted gear that can rival dropped gear should be gear crafted using mats that only drop in raids. There is no challenge in trade skills only time, and even then not even necessarily time spent playing.

starkerealm

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

I always thought it was a great idea to have a stat bonus on crafted gear. While dropped gear from Trials/Dungeons would always have those unique buffs i.e. that activate when certain conditions are met. This kept both dropped and crafted gear having close-to-equal worth.

Honestly, just more interesting set interactions. As it is now every set in the game (except Hunding and a few others) is 2pc: random stat up, 3pc: random stat up, 4pc: random stat up, 5pc: the only reason to really equip this set that you couldn't get elsewhere.

Ideally, it would be a lot more interesting if sets had multiple special effects. Hunding's Rage giving a bonus for damage against elves, for instance, or if Song of Lamae doubled the duration of your vampire stages.

Right now it's just, well, do I want extra damage, extra crits, extra armor? Which, isn't really that interesting.

Teiji

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

PsychoKRATOS1 wrote: »

Egg_Death wrote: »

It is un-Elder-Scrolls-like to limit what a character can do, but I think with skill point reallocation you have that covered even if you limit things. It is fairly infeasible that one person could be a master clothier, armorer, woodworker, chef, alchemist, and enchanter.

Not unfeasible at all my friend.
You can have multiple characters. Provisioning and alchemy. Blacksmithing and woodworking. Enchanting and clothier.

Have a main account that collects everything then have 3 other characters that have the other 3 classes trained up to do pvp with. I don't need to rely on others to make the best stuff since I can make it (up to 6 trait sets)

Ummmm... you don't even need to do that!

My main is maxed on all professions.. has every skill point in them that you need, has every class & weapon passive I need and all skills maxed for several different builds... and I still have a few skill points spare, and quite a few I haven't bothered to go and get yet.

Unless you are going for having everything unlocked without having to respec for every different possible role in the game then theres plenty of skill points to go full crafter on everything

One character with everything.
Good to know, however I did this reading things people were saying like: you can only realistically have 2 professions maxed.
So I just did the whole one account for 2 ... another account for two more etc.

Means I use each one as a *mini bank* without the need to respec.

Can confirm what Flaminir is saying; my first character has every profession maxed and two weapon skill lines maxed out. It's extremely pratical and sensible to have one character doing all your crafts.
My PvP characters all have Alchemy & Provisioning maxed, takes less than an hour to max out both with good guild stores.

Most unexpected thing I ever heard on ESO live was this;

"Gear equality" - Eric Wrobel

Fair play to the man, he's got a drink from me easily with that on intention alone.

Gear equality is a glorious thing, crafted, dropped - every player should have strong items accessible to them, this goes without saying, naturally.

Dremora polymorphs.

Malediktus

I see another issue with crafting gear being bad. What is the point of pretty crafting motif books (now glass) if you have to use dropped gear to min/max.

Tors

Curtischoy wrote: »

The only crafted gear that can rival dropped gear should be gear crafted using mats that only drop in raids. There is no challenge in trade skills only time, and even then not even necessarily time spent playing.

Why?


Why should dropped gear be better than crafted gear? Why only allow people in raids to get good gear? Not everyone is in a raid.

As long as some little 13 year old with a superiority complex has the ability to kick someone from a raid for any reason, not limited to their level of armour raids should give nothing aside from experiance.

This sort of setup leads to the elite attitudes of WoW

Currently ESO is easily the best MMORPG I have played for years, mainly because the childish loot systems implemented by games like WoW are not here.

Players in ESO have a choice, and a BIG choice in what they wear. Even when they decide what type of armour then they have mutiple choices in what sets and enchants.

There is no mechanic here to keep you logging in every week, ESO does not need it. WoW did because it had little to no content when people hit 50.

There are very few BOE dropped parts in this game, but they do exist. The helms and shoulders for twp, and the amount of bitching over them is huge.


Getting to the point where you can make decent crafted gear took far more time and effort than anyone getting some bit of dropped trash.


You guys really need to look at other games and work out why you play ESO and not them. Dont ruin ESO by making it a copy cat of some game you dont play.

Rinmaethodain

If some people still dont know.

VR16 crafted gear will require more than 100 refined materials for one piece of sword while VR14 version required only 16. Out of nowhere a sword of exactly same size will need 10 times more materials.
Sorry, but this, more than 110 ingots/sanded woods/clothes/leathers for just one item and removing +1 on crafted item is a coup on crafting profession in ESO