Elder Scrolls Online is an MMORPG, and denying that is where most of its issues spring from.

Elsonso

Psychobunni wrote: »

@lordrichter I could could through and highlight all your "I think"'s....but it doesn't really matter whether *you* think players need options or not. If they are asking for them, they feel they need them, no matter how condescending you try to act about it.

Options. Like em, use em. Don't like em, leave em off. But people really need to stop telling others they should play their way or their way should be the *only* way.

Thankfully this is just a video game and you people have no real control of others lives, I can only imagine the fun you'd suck out of life.

The beauty of the internet is that you get the benefit of my decades of wisdom and experience without having to worry about me implementing them. I am not running ZOS, and so I get to say stuff like this. If I were running ZOS, you would not get this, but then you would not get an option for damage and healing numbers, either.

I play ESO without the numbers, but I do play MMO games with floating and dancing numbers all over the place. Timers. Bars. Icons. Flashing things. Words scrolling hither and back telling me what to do and when to do it. My screen was a totally customized wonderland of modern MMO UI that looked nothing like the base game. My kid once asked me if I could actually see the game.

So... I play ESO without the numbers. I do not know my DPS or anything like that, but I am playing against people who have a UI that would make combat fighter jet pilots envious. It is why I believe that the option to have number and advanced combat data is bad in this game.

My philosophy is that, where it matters, the base combat UI should be the same for each player. When something happens that tips the combat UI too far towards an advantage for add-ons so that things are out of balance with respect to the base game, one of two things need to happen. Either the advantage of the add-on needs to be added to the base game, or the add-on needs to be eliminated.

When it comes to numbers, years of experience tell me that they are not needed. They are not needed on the resource bars. They are not needed during combat to show you outgoing or incoming damage and healing. Some people like to see them during combat, but they are not needed during combat. During combat you really need to focus on execution, not numbers.

I have long ago come to the conclusion that these advanced MMO UIs breed poor players. Certainly, a skilled player can take and use this information, but unskilled players become obsessed with the rotation, pressing the key when the icon flashes or when the words tell them to. They get skilled at pushing the button when they are told to, but are they really encouraged to become better at playing the game? I do not think so.

So, I was quite put off by the ESO combat during launch because I was used to all the numbers and the fancy *** (<- LOL.. where a fighter pilot sits) UI.

ZOS is doing something with combat information, and I really want to see where it goes. Rather than coming up with an overloaded *** (<- LOL.. where a fighter pilot sits) UI, they are really trying to make it so that as I view the world itself during combat that I am also picking up the information I need without having to look at the UI overlay. Contextual combat tactical information. That is the direction that they are taking the UI, and the options and features that they put into the base game really need to fit into this design. My feeling is that floating text and numbers do not fit into this at all. In this case, not only are the numbers not really an important part of combat, they don't fit into the design.

This is why I think the developers should move on to other UI things. They do not need to add numbers and a combat log with numbers, then add an option to turn it on and off. I would hope they have enough to do, already. Just focus on contextual combat tactical information. The information provided by S'rendarr would be a good place to start. The game needs a simple to use indicator system for things that impact the character and those around. No numbers required.

Woman

Psychobunni wrote: »

Options. Like em, use em. Don't like em, leave em off. But people really need to stop telling others they should play their way or their way should be the *only* way.

^^ This. So much this. I have a bajillion addons and develop them myself. I play competitively and take the game a little more seriously than most, but I would never tell anyone else that they need to play my way.

AaronLannister

lordrichter wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

@lordrichter I could could through and highlight all your "I think"'s....but it doesn't really matter whether *you* think players need options or not. If they are asking for them, they feel they need them, no matter how condescending you try to act about it.

Options. Like em, use em. Don't like em, leave em off. But people really need to stop telling others they should play their way or their way should be the *only* way.

Thankfully this is just a video game and you people have no real control of others lives, I can only imagine the fun you'd suck out of life.

The beauty of the internet is that you get the benefit of my decades of wisdom and experience without having to worry about me implementing them. I am not running ZOS, and so I get to say stuff like this. If I were running ZOS, you would not get this, but then you would not get an option for damage and healing numbers, either.

I play ESO without the numbers, but I do play MMO games with floating and dancing numbers all over the place. Timers. Bars. Icons. Flashing things. Words scrolling hither and back telling me what to do and when to do it. My screen was a totally customized wonderland of modern MMO UI that looked nothing like the base game. My kid once asked me if I could actually see the game.

So... I play ESO without the numbers. I do not know my DPS or anything like that, but I am playing against people who have a UI that would make combat fighter jet pilots envious. It is why I believe that the option to have number and advanced combat data is bad in this game.

My philosophy is that, where it matters, the base combat UI should be the same for each player. When something happens that tips the combat UI too far towards an advantage for add-ons so that things are out of balance with respect to the base game, one of two things need to happen. Either the advantage of the add-on needs to be added to the base game, or the add-on needs to be eliminated.

When it comes to numbers, years of experience tell me that they are not needed. They are not needed on the resource bars. They are not needed during combat to show you outgoing or incoming damage and healing. Some people like to see them during combat, but they are not needed during combat. During combat you really need to focus on execution, not numbers.

I have long ago come to the conclusion that these advanced MMO UIs breed poor players. Certainly, a skilled player can take and use this information, but unskilled players become obsessed with the rotation, pressing the key when the icon flashes or when the words tell them to. They get skilled at pushing the button when they are told to, but are they really encouraged to become better at playing the game? I do not think so.

So, I was quite put off by the ESO combat during launch because I was used to all the numbers and the fancy *** (<- LOL.. where a fighter pilot sits) UI.

ZOS is doing something with combat information, and I really want to see where it goes. Rather than coming up with an overloaded *** (<- LOL.. where a fighter pilot sits) UI, they are really trying to make it so that as I view the world itself during combat that I am also picking up the information I need without having to look at the UI overlay. Contextual combat tactical information. That is the direction that they are taking the UI, and the options and features that they put into the base game really need to fit into this design. My feeling is that floating text and numbers do not fit into this at all. In this case, not only are the numbers not really an important part of combat, they don't fit into the design.

This is why I think the developers should move on to other UI things. They do not need to add numbers and a combat log with numbers, then add an option to turn it on and off. I would hope they have enough to do, already. Just focus on contextual combat tactical information. The information provided by S'rendarr would be a good place to start. The game needs a simple to use indicator system for things that impact the character and those around. No numbers required.

Exactly, I'm absolutely sick of how Developers have been treating Console users and how they have been handling console games in general. They have a lack of understanding of basic social functions, just look at how poorly DESTINY handled it's Matchmaking and LFG system.

These things should be an absolute NO ISSUE yet they are because of Incompetent developers.

PC gaming is where it's at for the most part.

AlbanianGuy101

Psychobunni wrote: »

@AlbanianGuy101 This thread may interest you

Indeed it did.

AaronLannister

Xendyn wrote: »

Not going to bother with quoting the walls of text there.
Just once again...

agreed

fallensbane_ESO

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Consoles not only have all of the issues above... but can't use addons due to Sony/Microsoft platform restrictions in the first place, and don't have even a chat window you can pull up when in say your inventory or on its own screen, instead relying solely on voice chat which has a myriad number of its own inherent issues when being used as the only real form of communication. Both text chat and voice chat have their uses including some overlapping ones, but neither can really handle everything the best.

(Obligatory "ZOS plz fix!" goes here)

I can't help but call BS on that one. Whether that is the excuse zeni gave us or not. Fallout 4 is going to be on X1/PS4 and add-ons along with it, so I will not buy it.

And voice area chat can be useful, but mostly its appaling. Soon as I load into town a varying assault of rando kinnect picked up sounds and usually at least one guy boredly repeating 'Selling Insert Name Here' over and over.

AaronLannister

fallensbane_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Consoles not only have all of the issues above... but can't use addons due to Sony/Microsoft platform restrictions in the first place, and don't have even a chat window you can pull up when in say your inventory or on its own screen, instead relying solely on voice chat which has a myriad number of its own inherent issues when being used as the only real form of communication. Both text chat and voice chat have their uses including some overlapping ones, but neither can really handle everything the best.

(Obligatory "ZOS plz fix!" goes here)

I can't help but call BS on that one. Whether that is the excuse zeni gave us or not. Fallout 4 is going to be on X1/PS4 and add-ons along with it, so I will not buy it.

And voice area chat can be useful, but mostly its appaling. Soon as I load into town a varying assault of rando kinnect picked up sounds and usually at least one guy boredly repeating 'Selling Insert Name Here' over and over.

I agree, many people tend to forget that they made this generations Consoles to be much easier to develop for, mods are clearly possible. Consoles are becoming more like PC's really.