Elder Scrolls Online is an MMORPG, and denying that is where most of its issues spring from.

Ysne58

Korozenn wrote: »

...

Great job with this post, @Attorneyatlawl !


- Addons: Minimap by Fyrakin, FTC, and Wykkyd's Enhanced HUD

- Addons: Inventory Grid View, Equipment Item Borders, and Item Saver

- Addon: SpentSkillPoints


- Addon: Votan's Improved Locations

.

@Korozenn, thanks for some more ideas for addons I might want to try. Very nicely done post.

The Uninvited

Psychobunni wrote: »

I hated WoW. Installed and deleted the same day, the cartoon look was just too much (for me)./quote]

It's my main reason for skipping a lot of MMO's. If I can't stand the graphics, no matter how great the game or UI is, I simply can't play it. My litlle brother played WoW from the start, myself I never even installed it.

Joy_Division

I think options are the best route. People who don't want all this information should not have it "forced" on them and people that do should have an in-game easily available means to acquire it.

I do agree with @Elloa that there are enough visual indicators to successively complete all the game's content and I actually prefer them to the vast majority of the add-ons that attempt to communicate the same information. In no way should ESO stop giving us these non-add-on features.

That being said, it is very hard to PvP without add-ons. Without damage numbers, I have no in game way of knowing if my opponent is cheese stacking nirn armor, the games does not tell you if a skill hits or misses when a player is dodge-rolling, and if I am getting rekt, I want to know how and why.

IllWills

Elder Scrolls 'Online' is nothing more than just that, an ES game that you can play Online. that Continues to Grow, that's why I love Persistent Online World games, Not because they are Social...

I've been playing so-called 'MMO's' now for 15+ years starting with Everquest, 99% of that total play time? was SOLO.

That does not mean I never Duo'ed, Grouped, Raided & was never in a Guild, ok?. I was literally chosen to be an Officer in a Raid Guild at one point in EQ at its height ok? do you have any idea what that means? lol I've never seen any Raids come close to an EQ Raid ok? they were HUGE & Complex in the PoP era when I was an Officer. but I've always Preferred to Solo...

Just because so-called MMO's have the word 'Multiplayer' in it? everyone assumes YOU MUST GROUP, you don't. all that Multiplayer means is their is more than one player, that's it! but everyone associates it with games you group with other people with & nothing else, & that's just wrong.

Their are Countless Reasons why people Prefer to Solo just as much as people who like to Group & PVP etc., so Respect them all. let everyone play the way they want to play, stop trying to Force people to be 'Social' all the time, I've seen it since 2000 when I started playing EQ. we all Contribute to the World in our own ways, even Solo players.

That's why I Never use the term 'MMO', a Persistent Online World is all it is, from EQ to ESO ;-)

Elsonso

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

nicholaspingasb16_ESO wrote: »

Just because it's an mmo, doesnt mean it can't bring the genre forward in an appreciable way. Not every mmo has to be an incremental improvement on wow.

Problem is, many do not see it as a step forward by any stretch of the imagination.

In some ways it is... but in many ways it is a big step back, in areas such as socialization features and the user interface.

A lot of people bring baggage from other MMO games. I call them tropes.

I am OK with the ZOS developers tossing out the "Standards" found in other MMO games. It is by developers doing this that the whole genre moves forward. The numbers. The tactical combat displays. Even console voice chat. Especially the auction house.

This is always a risky proposition. Some ideas are failures, some are not, and just because an idea fails does not mean it is abandoned and the flock faithfully returns to the "way things are done."

The main thing about doing this, and where ZOS has been lacking, is dedicating the development effort to make sure that these things work right, and people can see that they are working. ZOS has too much of a tendency to partially implement things, to stop short of making it work right.

We are left with a wide array of hesitant starts in a variety of places in the game and, even though I know they are experienced and professional game developers, they seem to be wandering like they don't know where they are going. I know they can deliver the game they want, I just wish they would do it.

VilhelmValhalla4

I'm just tired of the argument that because this is Elder Scrolls Online somehow suggestions for features in prior Elder Scrolls games are shot down because "this isn't Skyrim Online" or something to that effect. This canned response always stifles discussions and in my opinion limits what this game can be. I'm an Elder Scrolls fan, not an MMO fan, and it seems that both parties are slighted by certain design decisions by Zenimax. Ultimately, I say that MMO player should be able to enjoy the things that make the genera great for them, and Elder Scrolls fans should be able to do what makes us happy as well. There is a lot of overlap in both parties, and what I envision is a game that is uniquely tailored for the player by their own choices. Add more options, remove arbitrary restrictions, and allow us to play how we want.

Xendyn

IllWills wrote: »

Elder Scrolls 'Online' is nothing more than just that, an ES game that you can play Online. that Continues to Grow, that's why I love Persistent Online World games, Not because they are Social...

I've been playing so-called 'MMO's' now for 15+ years starting with Everquest, 99% of that total play time? was SOLO.

That does not mean I never Duo'ed, Grouped, Raided & was never in a Guild, ok?. I was literally chosen to be an Officer in a Raid Guild at one point in EQ at its height ok? do you have any idea what that means? lol I've never seen any Raids come close to an EQ Raid ok? they were HUGE & Complex in the PoP era when I was an Officer. but I've always Preferred to Solo...

Just because so-called MMO's have the word 'Multiplayer' in it? everyone assumes YOU MUST GROUP, you don't. all that Multiplayer means is their is more than one player, that's it! but everyone associates it with games you group with other people with & nothing else, & that's just wrong.

Their are Countless Reasons why people Prefer to Solo just as much as people who like to Group & PVP etc., so Respect them all. let everyone play the way they want to play, stop trying to Force people to be 'Social' all the time, I've seen it since 2000 when I started playing EQ. we all Contribute to the World in our own ways, even Solo players.

That's why I Never use the term 'MMO', a Persistent Online World is all it is, from EQ to ESO ;-)

Easy on the Bold there, lol. Felt like you were trying to poke my eyes out with your finger.

Waffennacht

ESO on console is our only first person mmorpg option, its the only elder scroll game for xbox one.

Computer people have many games to choose from such as archeage. I really dont see why computer people believe they need any focus. You can change your game literally or change the game you play.

We cannot. The developers should focus on console.

Also would love seperate forums for pc and consule. Very rarely are their conversations relevant to the consule player.

Its an Elder Scroll game, it should be like every other elder scroll game just with many players. It even exists because we wanted multiplayer skyrim. Dont like it, too bad

J2JMC

You aren't allowed to use a mini map because you enjoying the game ruins my immersion.

Gyudan

Fix UI thread? Is this still 2014?

Xendyn

Gyudan wrote: »

Fix UI thread? Is this still 2014?

Apparently, since ZOS hasn't fixed it yet lol

Psychobunni

Gyudan wrote: »

Fix UI thread? Is this still 2014?

Beating away until it's fixed. Aside from that, it's a new frustration for console players.

MisterBigglesworth

Waffennacht wrote: »

Computer people have many games to choose from such as archeage. I really dont see why computer people believe they need any focus. You can change your game literally or change the game you play.
We cannot. The developers should focus on console.

Well on PS4 everyone could just go play FF14, on XBO everyone could just go play Neverwinter.
But that's all beside the point.
Telling someone "don't like? stop playing" is a complete non-starter and contributes absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Snowstrider

One of my biggest problems with eso is the social aspect and the world and overall lack of stuff happening in the world.

There are no events or festivals,they havent done much with the world to make it feel more alive,there are no mini games and it just isnt as fun to just hang out in eso as in other MMOS,You can name your pets but other people cant see their name,You cant represent your guild by having your guild name as a title or next to your name.

AaronLannister

IllWills wrote: »

Elder Scrolls 'Online' is nothing more than just that, an ES game that you can play Online. that Continues to Grow, that's why I love Persistent Online World games, Not because they are Social...

I've been playing so-called 'MMO's' now for 15+ years starting with Everquest, 99% of that total play time? was SOLO.

That does not mean I never Duo'ed, Grouped, Raided & was never in a Guild, ok?. I was literally chosen to be an Officer in a Raid Guild at one point in EQ at its height ok? do you have any idea what that means? lol I've never seen any Raids come close to an EQ Raid ok? they were HUGE & Complex in the PoP era when I was an Officer. but I've always Preferred to Solo...

Just because so-called MMO's have the word 'Multiplayer' in it? everyone assumes YOU MUST GROUP, you don't. all that Multiplayer means is their is more than one player, that's it! but everyone associates it with games you group with other people with & nothing else, & that's just wrong.

Their are Countless Reasons why people Prefer to Solo just as much as people who like to Group & PVP etc., so Respect them all. let everyone play the way they want to play, stop trying to Force people to be 'Social' all the time, I've seen it since 2000 when I started playing EQ. we all Contribute to the World in our own ways, even Solo players.

That's why I Never use the term 'MMO', a Persistent Online World is all it is, from EQ to ESO ;-)

Wrong, many MMO's don't require group play until MAX level. but when you reach max level you're going to want to party. SOLO has it's limits like with every MMO these days.

The fact of the matter is, MMORPG's are also Social Platforms which this game completely fails.

And LOL EQ required you to be working together at very low levels it was by far one of the most hardcore in terms of difficulty MMORPG's ever made. EQ required you to be social and PARTY with others. Same with FFXI.

The Uninvited

Waffennacht wrote: »

Computer people have many games to choose from such as archeage. I really dont see why computer people believe they need any focus. You can change your game literally or change the game you play.

We cannot. The developers should focus on console.

I want to play Bloodborne on PC. Guess what the second link when googling "Bloodborne PC" gave me:

Do not release Bloodborne for PC
Addo Perez-Muniz Westminster, CO

PC gamers are bunch of elitist *** bags. They don't deserve this PS4 exclusive. If they want to play Bloodborne they should buy a PS4 like gentlemen.

You have exclusive games, just like we do.

wafcatb14_ESO

Wrong, many MMO's don't require group play until MAX level. but when you reach max level you're going to want to party. SOLO has it's limits like with every MMO these days.

The fact of the matter is, MMORPG's are also Social Platforms which this game completely fails.

And LOL EQ required you to be working together at very low levels it was by far one of the most hardcore in terms of difficulty MMORPG's ever made. EQ required you to be social and PARTY with others. Same with FFXI.[/quote]


Yup This game actually punishes you for questing with more than 2 people, 4 man group size is very small as well, the Majority of the entire game is a solo game from start to endgame, with the group delve per zone.

All the quest outside of Craglorn can be soloed, there are no Large group encounters,raids, events, or anything outside of the dolemans.

I to played EQ 1999-2004 very few classes could solo at endgame most started having to group by atleast level 20, but there was also zone events, etc for large groups of people to do.

This game is getting better it was worse at launch over a year ago, but as a MMo it is still the most anti-social MMo I`ve seen
that actually discourages grouping and working together.

Attorneyatlawl

AaronLannister wrote: »

Wrong, many MMO's don't require group play until MAX level. but when you reach max level you're going to want to party. SOLO has it's limits like with every MMO these days.

The fact of the matter is, MMORPG's are also Social Platforms which this game completely fails.

And LOL EQ required you to be working together at very low levels it was by far one of the most hardcore in terms of difficulty MMORPG's ever made. EQ required you to be social and PARTY with others. Same with FFXI.

Yep... between the very anti-group mechanics other than things literally requiring them such as trials, the lack of nameplates and guild tags for name recognition and on-the-fly socialization ("Oh cool, there's that guy in Shortbus, that guild kills it in Cyro wonder if he'll give me a tip on my build...") or even just trading, quests that are mandatory and also force you to be on the exact same steps for the most part to even group for them (but you really don't need to by any means and usually just end up going more slowly if you try as you move through them waiting on eachother), and the more modern MMO syndrome of "everyone can do everything" which while it has its pros also has its cons... well, the game just isn't very social.

I mean seriously, how many times do you run into this when making a deal? It's constant, for me at least :

"WTS this awesome item, PST"
(guy whispers me) "Ok, I'll buy it where are you?"
(I reply) "I'm by the bank steps"
(a minute goes by and I get a send) "You coming man?"
(I answer) "I'm there already, I don't see you?"
(guy whispers back) "Ok throw me a grp invite"
(I tell him) "I'm already grp'd, was about to head into a pledge... just go to the left of the door and jump"
(guy says) "I see you!! Opening the trade."
(I sell the item and tell him) "Thanks!!! Have a good one!"

Or, how many times are you in an area in PVE and cringe when you see 2-3 other players run nearby, because you know you'll actually be penalized for them coming into the area you're in if you end up attacking the same mobs? Your full XP goes down to 1/3 when that random duo hits stuff you were hitting, and with the difficulty so low on the mobs in the first place it's a harm, not a help, by a mile. And then you go to upper craglorn to mindlessly farm late at night, and sigh when you see 2 other solo'ers running nearby because they will hit harvesting nodes that you're pathing through already?

MMORPG's are based on and intended to be competitive and social platforms. I think ESO does fairly well on the "competitive" part, although leaderboards in PVP have no skill-tempering factor to the AP totals or statistics to see, for example, that the guy who has 50 billion alliance points this campaign was logged in for 23 hours per day out of the last week and only actually earned 5000 AP an hour, so probably isn't actually that good . Dark Age of Camelot had a huge number of fun statistics like the I Remain Standing score (which if it were changed to be based on releasing/wayshrining vs. being rezzed would be fun here), Realm Points (AP here) earned today/yesterday/this past week/this past month/lifetime, RP (AP) earned per hour in those same timepsans, deaths, kills, killblows, etc. all by time alongside those, and in Warhammer Online they added in things like healing dealt/damage dealt additionally which helped you see, for example, that the guy with 2 killblows actually did 50 lives' worth of healing in that same 30 minute span, so he's not bad, he's just a healer . That kind of thing too, built community, as you could compare things for fun and see things to aspire to or beat.

On the social end of things, however... ESO has major issues, stemming from the UI (as covered above a bit) to gameplay mechanics. You're punished on XP for grouping... you're punished on AP for grouping more people past a certain point if your group is skilled... you're punished on questing and leveling speed for grouping... heck, you're punished for farming crafting materials if you group as the nodes are world-based and not per-person (that's one of the few things I loved how Guild Wars 2 handled, despite not liking the game much otherwise). And you really don't need anyone but yourself except for things requiring forced grouping such as craglorn quests with pads multiple people must stand on to open doors to even fight the encounters, or running in Cyrodiil RVR (AvA) which isn't unique to ESO. Everyone looks like a random NPC stranger in town for the most part, you don't see their selected titles or their vanity pets' names (poor Mr. Oinkers, my awesome bristlegut piglet pet, is known as that to me alone ), let alone their guilds if you don't know who they are already when hovering over them.

And then we have the whole XP parity issues with grinding packs of PVE mobs (an activity that, as described above, doesn't encourage socialization but actually punishes anyone who wants to do so!) versus more skilled activities like Trials or doing well in PVP. Those in particular should both be bounds ahead of grinding mobs... imagine if they were: you would see PUG trials even trying to get going and learn how to play well so they could earn good champion XP, and PUG groups in Cyrodiil trying to work together more rather than just blobbing wherever they see other people running towards.

I have faith ZOS will pull it off, yet. But there's no beating around the bush that up through now, it hasn't gone well on the things talked about in this post overall. If the lag fixes come out well, these are critical things I hope they work towards addressing next!

Attorneyatlawl

VilhelmValhalla4 wrote: »

I'm just tired of the argument that because this is Elder Scrolls Online somehow suggestions for features in prior Elder Scrolls games are shot down because "this isn't Skyrim Online" or something to that effect. This canned response always stifles discussions and in my opinion limits what this game can be. I'm an Elder Scrolls fan, not an MMO fan, and it seems that both parties are slighted by certain design decisions by Zenimax. Ultimately, I say that MMO player should be able to enjoy the things that make the genera great for them, and Elder Scrolls fans should be able to do what makes us happy as well. There is a lot of overlap in both parties, and what I envision is a game that is uniquely tailored for the player by their own choices. Add more options, remove arbitrary restrictions, and allow us to play how we want.

'Nuff said.

Folkb

Just because it is an MMORPG doesn't mean they should take away from the adventure that was skyrim and oblivion and morrowind and slap some bland MMO mechanics and call it a day, because that's exactly what they did and why exactly many people are upset with this game.

Moezilla

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Are you using Internet Explorer?

Attorneyatlawl

Moezilla wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Are you using Internet Explorer?

I use Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Microsoft Edge in the course of my daily workflow. Are you using only one browser? They've each got their useful parts... I use Chrome for compatibility testing, Firefox for multiple tabs in trees with its extensions, Internet Explorer for low memory footprint when running virtual machines, and Microsoft Edge for its reading views at night.

(Hides his boot menu in BIOS, Visual Studio, Notepad++, Word, R-serve, Excel, Outlook, Paint, Photoshop, and OneNote icons to head off further asides about programs with overlapping uses that hit different vectors )

Moe. P.S. I'm sending you a copy of the lorebook "Those Damn Cats!" from Arenthia for your newer NB ! My mailbox is full as always so good luck sending back lockpicks. (evil grin)

Psychobunni

@AlbanianGuy101 This thread may interest you

wafcatb14_ESO

Psychobunni wrote: »

@AlbanianGuy101 This thread may interest you

Sadly a lot of us did play the PTS the closed Beta testing pre launch not the weekend beta events but actual closed beta.

and a lot of us told them in survey, bug reports, and feedback on the game to try and help with development, Everyting Attorney remarked about in this thread we all said as well however they still ignored us and went with their vision, which honestly isn`t very good,

They should have decided to either make a single player game or a MMO but not try and combine them both into one game.

Audigy

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ESO is an MMO.
ESO is an RPG.
ESO is an Elder Scrolls game.
ESO is not a single-player Skyrim sequel.

The most painful thing is, that the user interface in ESO has been the biggest issue by a large margin that has ever impacted my having fun in the game. Unfortunately, this also has had very wide-reaching effects on every major issue that has been a firestorm on the forums recently, too.

Combat UI features have largely left the vast majority of players having no idea how the mechanics really work (addons being the only way to see any numbers, which until the Imperial City launches will (since mid-beta) have been unable to tell you who hit you, or what skill you were attacked with, let alone what buffs you have on your character or debuffs you've cast on others, or who/what healed you... other things like a basic combat log tab to enable on the chat box have hurt this as well, with the same restrictions on addons until the upcoming DLC, and no way to do so ever before).

Industry standard features became that for a reason, and it's not because most people hated them and they were useless . I feel the game's major issues stack up like this:

The #1 issue long-term players have (and in the past have had, regarding people who have quit) with the game, that really needs to be addressed.

I'd say mechanics and combat info clock in right at #2which lead to people getting fed up with Veteran Ranks originally as the game difficulty increased when going into that level range and they didn't have any way to tell how to handle it because of that, which is also part of the UI.

#3 would probably be the slower pace of content updates, particularly on the PVP end of things, but you can't change the past and the Imperial City is almost here ! More looks to be coming at a better pace in near future overall.

A moderate distance away as #4 would be the champion system, which is having little honest discussion as virtually everyone who posts about it doesn't know how any of it works or how it affects things in-game because of points #1 and #2... and misguidedly demand severe nerfs rather than relatively easy tweaks such as a moderate scale-down , implementing the catch-up mechanism sooner, or adding another 36 passives but leaving the cap at 3600 champion points to make it into a true customization aspect as well.

Direct UI features ranging from needing addons to have basic game functions, to addons not being allowed to even try to take up the slack for many options such as nameplate/guildtag toggles, to outright bugs (group leader bug... stuck health bars... cursor mode randomly triggering after closing UI windows and requiring a /reloadui... party members entering combat as you load a new zone causing it to hang up and give you an endless load screen) along with the lack of general usability, have also been a bear .

Community features like optional toggles for name/guild tags and player titles, being able to recognize/see friends and guildmates in the area readily, the deathspam channel in Cyrodiil which gave it a feeling of activity and life, simple things like showing what sold in a guild kiosk mail or having a "Reply" button to message someone back in the mailbox.

Consoles not only have all of the issues above... but can't use addons due to Sony/Microsoft platform restrictions in the first place, and don't have even a chat window you can pull up when in say your inventory or on its own screen, instead relying solely on voice chat which has a myriad number of its own inherent issues when being used as the only real form of communication. Both text chat and voice chat have their uses including some overlapping ones, but neither can really handle everything the best.

(Obligatory "ZOS plz fix!" goes here)

I couldn't disagree more with you.

I did raid highend at WOW when it was still hard, I played many other MMOs since Ultima and never in history did I require what you see as a "must have". Sure many guilds used recounts, decursive, slack tracker ..., but its by far a mandatory thing. Most people with a few brain cells available during play, will figure out the basics quite easily.

Playing games is a hobby at first, even if you take it a bit more serious - no need to make a competition out of it. Adding all those features can easily become overwhelming for most like at WOW where hardly 1% actually understands what the purpose of those numbers in their meters is.
Still, they will abuse those UI elements to harass other gamers who, after their opinion don't pull their weight and I don't think we need that at a Casual MMO like ESO is.

Gaming is not witchcraft where you first need to read books, before you can summon your first demon or brew the very first love potion (I have to strongly advice to not use these potions, own experience... ).
Anyways, gaming is just like walking, you learn it as a child automatically while doing it, no need to make it a science just because a few pro gamers (1 out of 500k) needs every inch of an advantage over his competitors.

What you call an industry standard, is nothing more than a nuisance these days. Its a bit like smartphones, people depend so much on their little helpers, that they completely forget to actually enjoy their environment, game or friends. When was the last time you asked someone about a location, where you can get nice food or where a good party might happen?
It just disappeared, everyone asks the phone these days, that's not socialization, its socially awkward and the same happened to MMOs. Since nobody has to talk to anybody anymore, as websites, addons or UI provide all the information, MMO´s became a dryland in regards of social interaction.
I sure don't want to run through Tamriel with my UI full of trackers, symbols and numbers.

Attorneyatlawl

Audigy wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

ESO is an MMO.
ESO is an RPG.
ESO is an Elder Scrolls game.
ESO is not a single-player Skyrim sequel.

The most painful thing is, that the user interface in ESO has been the biggest issue by a large margin that has ever impacted my having fun in the game. Unfortunately, this also has had very wide-reaching effects on every major issue that has been a firestorm on the forums recently, too.
(Obligatory "ZOS plz fix!" goes here)

I couldn't disagree more with you.

I sure don't want to run through Tamriel with my UI full of trackers, symbols and numbers.

The problem with that comparison is WOW gave you the information you needed to figure out the way to play mostly with built-in functionality. Addons like Recount were additions for niceties like dps graphs, not a requirement to even see how hard you hit for .

Also, ESO is far from a casual MMO. Like most, it's as casual as you want to make it, but it has an extreme amount of depth. And if you don't ask friends whether they've tried a new restaurant, that's awkward... . So is not being able to ask whether this gear is an upgrade in an MMO like ESO because most people don't know , due to the lacking UI.

You certainly do not have to now with addons available, nor would you with native options, run through with things enabled. That's why they're called options, settings, and toggles. Not forced. Your idea of "Well, if I don't want it, no one should have it!" forces your preference on everyone else. You've got it backwards .

If you don't want to deal with people who play differently and enjoy other things than you do... guess what? Don't take that group invite. Go invite friends who like to play how you do rather than insist we all do as you do.

Elsonso

Audigy wrote: »

Adding all those features can easily become overwhelming for most like at WOW where hardly 1% actually understands what the purpose of those numbers in their meters is.


What you call an industry standard, is nothing more than a nuisance these days. Its a bit like smartphones, people depend so much on their little helpers, that they completely forget to actually enjoy their environment, game or friends. When was the last time you asked someone about a location, where you can get nice food or where a good party might happen?
It just disappeared, everyone asks the phone these days, that's not socialization, its socially awkward and the same happened to MMOs. Since nobody has to talk to anybody anymore, as websites, addons or UI provide all the information, MMO´s became a dryland in regards of social interaction.
I sure don't want to run through Tamriel with my UI full of trackers, symbols and numbers.

Some people think they need numbers, but only a very few of them actually seem to know why. Fewer still probably know what to do with them. I can certainly see the value of being able to refer to numbers, but some players don't realize that they are not a constant necessity.

I guess they are like a teddy bear. Comforting, but otherwise just something that sits around long after you outgrow it.

I do think that the first and third person UI needs to provide standard and easy to understand combat tactical information. Contextual information overlaid on the world seems to be the direction they are already headed. Numbers and combat logs really don't fit and are not something that I think the bottom 90% of players need, and only the top 1% actually know what to do with them.

This is why I think the developers should move on to other UI things. They do not need to add numbers and a combat log with numbers, then add an option to turn it on and off. I would hope they have enough to do, already. Just focus on contextual combat tactical information. The information provided by S'rendarr would be a good place to start. The game needs a simple to use indicator system for things that impact the character and those around. No numbers required.

Another thing would be a system that monitors the game in real time, taking note of characters as they are being played. Healing and damage numbers, noted on the server side, logged against variables like level, class, champion points, etc. It is possible that they already track this information as part of "business intelligence" for the developers. That could be used just to tell players how their character stacks with similar characters. Again, no numbers required.

The Uninvited

Audigy wrote: »

Gaming is not witchcraft where you first need to read books, before you can summon your first demon or brew the very first love potion

Well, I don't know about you but I read a lot of books in this game. For instance, to learn the recipe for a potion...

Xendyn

Not going to bother with quoting the walls of text there.
Just once again...

Psychobunni

@lordrichter I could could through and highlight all your "I think"'s....but it doesn't really matter whether *you* think players need options or not. If they are asking for them, they feel they need them, no matter how condescending you try to act about it.

Options. Like em, use em. Don't like em, leave em off. But people really need to stop telling others they should play their way or their way should be the *only* way.

Thankfully this is just a video game and you people have no real control of others lives, I can only imagine the fun you'd suck out of life.