Eso tamriel map inaccurate?

UTG_Zilla

So I was looking at the tamriel map of all the regions and I was looking at cyrodil and tried to pinpoint all the cities that were in oblivion.

• I don't think there's enough room to have Bruma where it accurately is on oblivion (meaning geographically, I think there are mountains in the way)
• I think kvatch ends up being in maleb tor or whatever it is
• I don't think the southern port city in cyrodil (sorry, leywajin? Something like that..) will fit in current map
• same as Anvil, I don't think it accurately fits.

Anyone else notice this? Or am I wrong?

UTG_Zilla

I mean I know Cyrodil expands its territories but even with expanded territory there are other regions in the way that aren't the same geographically wise as they were in Oblivion

JD2013

There are a few inaccuracies with the map, yes.

I mean, we could put it down to maps changing over the years and cartography never being an exact thing, but . . .

Map is definitely wrong in places.

UTG_Zilla

JD2013 wrote: »

There are a few inaccuracies with the map, yes.

I mean, we could put it down to maps changing over the years and cartography never being an exact thing, but . . .

Map is definitely wrong in places.

I can understand that but like I said with bruma, I think there's a mountain in the location it is in in oblivion.

Yea Bruma was close to the mountains but still a good sprint away, not like right against it/on it as it would be with current map. And corral's geography changes a lot, like Sahara to grassland. Right now I'm pretty sure corral would appear in southeast bangkorai...which is desertous.. But in oblivion it was surround by a forest with lush grasslands and rolling hills

WolffenBloodseeker

I believe ZOS said that ESO map is scaled 1,5X the size of previous TES games (morrowind, oblivion and skyrim), to better accommodate an MMO playerbase, increase the size of cities and to accomodate the warfare going on in Cyrodiil (they needed space to build the castles and the original ruins in oblivion are too small and most on hilly terrain to become practical in an AvA scenario, also it was need a minimum distance between castles to not make death so trivial like die in a siege, 20 seconds and you are back in, just one example) this way there will be inconsistencies if you direct compare one map to another, the heightmap is the exactly same from oblvion/skyrim but the scale is increased and some areas leveled to place castles, chockpoints like the gates, the resources and etc

UTG_Zilla

@WolffenBloodseeker

Thank you for explanation

david271749

Yeah. It's not really Tamriel. It's not even really Elder Scrolls. This game is like the Dragonball GT of TES.

Acrolas

ZeniMax nerfed Cyrodiil, and then Cyrodiil nerfed ZeniMax.

Forestd16b14_ESO

david271749 wrote: »

Yeah. It's not really Tamriel. It's not even really Elder Scrolls. This game is liie the Dragonball GT of TES.

You do know Zenimax owns Bethesda right? Thus they own The Elder Scrolls series and thus ESO is really a Elder Scrolls game.

JD2013

david271749 wrote: »

Yeah. It's not really Tamriel. It's not even really Elder Scrolls. This game is like the Dragonball GT of TES.

It's definitely Tamriel

But maybe not Tamriel as we know it. It's very possible that the Soulburst caused a Dragon Break. Therefore not linear Tamriel time as we know it.

Big_Boss_77

If you look at old satellite photos through today, you'll notice that towns (especially smaller towns) tend to creep around a little bit. Over the course of the ages, is it not possible that Town X was sacked/burned/pillaged/plundered so the remaining residents said "Hey, let's move down the hill aways... I always hated walking up here into the mountains" or something? My chronology of the exact amount of time between Molag Bal's incursion and Mehrunes Dagon's is rusty to say the least, but I believe it's a substantial number of years apart.

david271749

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

david271749 wrote: »

Yeah. It's not really Tamriel. It's not even really Elder Scrolls. This game is liie the Dragonball GT of TES.

You do know Zenimax owns Bethesda right? Thus they own The Elder Scrolls series and thus ESO is really a Elder Scrolls game.

Sure, but it's already considered non-canon by many fans.

WolffenBloodseeker

JD2013 wrote: »

david271749 wrote: »

Yeah. It's not really Tamriel. It's not even really Elder Scrolls. This game is like the Dragonball GT of TES.

It's definitely Tamriel

But maybe not Tamriel as we know it. It's very possible that the Soulburst caused a Dragon Break. Therefore not linear Tamriel time as we know it.

Well just tossing my opinion around, i have seem nothing in-game indicating that the soulburst caused the Dragon to break, Varen's entitlement trying to become dragonborn made the dragon mad as hell and broke his pact with saint Alessia that's true but when the dragon breaks bad *** happens, just have to take a look back in TES 2 Daggerfall, the world went in a WTF moment when the dragon broke, from one day to another kingdoms were destroyed, others reborn (Orsinium), the largest powers in the high rock consolidated their power without even trying (no wars, no alliances, they just woke one day and look! our kingdoms got bigger/ were subjugated and we don't even remember how! WTF) a NEW god was killed and born at the same time (mannimarco as the necromancer's moon) among other things i don't remember.

While the soulburst takes place during the worst and longer Interregnum in the history of Tamriel, emperors and kings rose and fell all around, alliances and promises were made and broke, thousands died to war and the daedric invasion of molag bal, lots of knowledge were lost and it's possible that MANY of it was destroyed on purpose (like the Tharn's involvement in the soulburst since they retained important position as a noble family of Cyrodiil even after all the *** they helped create), then a man came, united the continent under his banner by the sword, province by province (the greatest no-life PVPlayer of all times lol) and probably tried to change or hide many things to further legitimize his claims and THAT's why the Interregnum is such a poorly-documented period in the history of Tamriel in MY opinion.

UTG_Zilla

Big_Boss_77 wrote: »

If you look at old satellite photos through today, you'll notice that towns (especially smaller towns) tend to creep around a little bit. Over the course of the ages, is it not possible that Town X was sacked/burned/pillaged/plundered so the remaining residents said "Hey, let's move down the hill aways... I always hated walking up here into the mountains" or something? My chronology of the exact amount of time between Molag Bal's incursion and Mehrunes Dagon's is rusty to say the least, but I believe it's a substantial number of years apart.

I think someone made a thread on here about the time line between games and it's like 700-800 years between eso and oblivion. And yea people move hills but whole mountains? And not just a small amount, like entire acres of straight mountain. According to where riften is and where northern mountain range ends in northern cyrodil leaves almost no room to remove that much mountain for Bruma and still have the mountain range as wide as represented in past games

Saddiq

david271749 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

david271749 wrote: »

Yeah. It's not really Tamriel. It's not even really Elder Scrolls. This game is liie the Dragonball GT of TES.

You do know Zenimax owns Bethesda right? Thus they own The Elder Scrolls series and thus ESO is really a Elder Scrolls game.

Sure, but it's already considered non-canon by many fans.

I 'kind of' appreciate the non-canon view. I'm pretty sure no one has the slightest clue whether 'many fans' is anything close to a majority. Plus then we have to define fans. If you've only played Skyrim, are you 'really a fan'? If you haven't played Daggerfall, are you 'really a fan?' etc etc. (in case it sounds like I'd take the elitist approach, I think if you consider yourself a fan of ES, you're a fan whatever games you've played). It's an unwinnable position either way.

For me, introducing 'non-canon' concepts into a series that's flexible enough to incorporate all official games and books into it's canon, is a needless road. The ES Lore Series on Youtube presents a solid argument against ESO's change of Cyrodiil. I, personally, was satisfied with the 'recently' released new book in ESO by, I assume, ESO's lore master, who did a decent job explaining Cyrodiil's non-jungle state while avoiding the cringe-inducing, but ultimately lore-acceptable Dragonbreak silliness that was invented out of necessity when Morrowind had to grapple with Daggerfall's multiple-endings game.

Plus, the ESO forum boards is a terrible place to take the temperature of whether 'many fans' consider ESO canon or not, since it's a wretched hive of scum and villainy (oops, mixed my series there).

crytantrevors

Its canon if its approved by bethesda. No offense but the fans dont own the elder scrolls series thus their opinions dont really matter much in that regard

UTG_Zilla

Let me make something clear, I'm not really bothered by the map inaccuracies or the non-canon-ness of eso. I was literally just looking around the regions and started to point out oblivion cities (see: bored) and just noticed some wouldn't fit or be geographically accurate, and thought that out of all the TES canon things this was something that should've been canon, you don't really need to change the tamriel map (cyrodil is already smaller in eso than in eso, it only have half its cities as is) so why mess up placement of other cities when you don't have to you know?

And I just made a thread to make sure I wasn't completely wrong because it's been like years and years etc.. since I played oblivion or looked at its Map

Colosso-monstro

It could be that no town existed at that location during this period

UTG_Zilla

Colosso-monstro wrote: »

It could be that no town existed at that location during this period

Yea.....but...that's not what I said

Saddiq

That reminds me, Bravil bugged me when I first played ESO, but a bigger terrain change that bugged me was Stros M'kai. There was a giant mountain in the SW corner in the 1998 game 'Redguard' that got levelled. What's more, what ESO turned into two footbridges between two hills was, in Redguard, an epic, monumental archaeological Dwemer ruin with hundreds of feet tall pillars supporting massive bridges to an automated gear-driven laboratory high above. What's curious is that ESO retained the gist of it, but made it less epic. All they needed to do was keep the outside appearance and simply not let us in to the area we go into in Redguard. Looks cooler and no more work on their part.

Big_Boss_77

I was implying that they relocated the whole town, but now that I look at it, you're right. It is fairly narrow up there. Aside from a major tectonic event, there's really no way it matches.

Robo_Hobo

The cities and areas you speak of don't belong to cyrodiil at this point in time. Take Leyawiin and that thin stretch of land from the imperial city on the coast of the Niben, that isn't made a part of Cyrodiil until a couple decades prior to the events of TES:4 Oblivion, it was given to Cyrodiil after an agreement between the Mane and the Emporer - it was made because the Khajiit had won some land from Valenwood past the Xylo river (in ESO, the land that is Reaper's March partially belongs to Valenwood, and all of Malabor Tor, but after the five-year war between the Bosmer and Khajiit, just before Oblivion, the Khajiit own all of Reapers March and parts of Malabal Tor). So basically the Khajiit had to give away their eastern coast to cyrodiil because they won some land on their western border. Kinda unfair tbh but yeah.

In Oblivion, you may hear of the Renrija Krin whom want to make Leyawiin a part of Elsweyr again.

arena25

Acrolas wrote: »

ZeniMax nerfed Cyrodiil, and then Cyrodiil nerfed ZeniMax.

Uh...what? That doesn't make any sense...

bowmanz607

OP, agreed. chalk it up to the geographic change from a thousand year time span i guess. although still a stretch

bowmanz607

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

The cities and areas you speak of don't belong to cyrodiil at this point in time. Take Leyawiin and that thin stretch of land from the imperial city on the coast of the Niben, that isn't made a part of Cyrodiil until a couple decades prior to the events of TES:4 Oblivion, it was given to Cyrodiil after an agreement between the Mane and the Emporer - it was made because the Khajiit had won some land from Valenwood past the Xylo river (in ESO, the land that is Reaper's March partially belongs to Valenwood, and all of Malabor Tor, but after the five-year war between the Bosmer and Khajiit, just before Oblivion, the Khajiit own all of Reapers March and parts of Malabal Tor). So basically the Khajiit had to give away their eastern coast to cyrodiil because they won some land on their western border. Kinda unfair tbh but yeah.

In Oblivion, you may hear of the Renrija Krin whom want to make Leyawiin a part of Elsweyr again.

the problem is not mere existence. it is that the landscape in it self does not make sense. such as mountains or bodies of water etc.

Gidorick

What if... stay with me here... what if we are all on Lyg and not on Tamriel at all.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Lyg

UTG_Zilla

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

The cities and areas you speak of don't belong to cyrodiil at this point in time. Take Leyawiin and that thin stretch of land from the imperial city on the coast of the Niben, that isn't made a part of Cyrodiil until a couple decades prior to the events of TES:4 Oblivion, it was given to Cyrodiil after an agreement between the Mane and the Emporer - it was made because the Khajiit had won some land from Valenwood past the Xylo river (in ESO, the land that is Reaper's March partially belongs to Valenwood, and all of Malabor Tor, but after the five-year war between the Bosmer and Khajiit, just before Oblivion, the Khajiit own all of Reapers March and parts of Malabal Tor). So basically the Khajiit had to give away their eastern coast to cyrodiil because they won some land on their western border. Kinda unfair tbh but yeah.

In Oblivion, you may hear of the Renrija Krin whom want to make Leyawiin a part of Elsweyr again.

I knew that but given where Bravil currently, leyawiin's supposed location on eso Map would be a lot further south from Bravil than it is in oblivion.

Blackhorne

WolffenBloodseeker wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

david271749 wrote: »

Yeah. It's not really Tamriel. It's not even really Elder Scrolls. This game is like the Dragonball GT of TES.

It's definitely Tamriel

But maybe not Tamriel as we know it. It's very possible that the Soulburst caused a Dragon Break. Therefore not linear Tamriel time as we know it.

Well just tossing my opinion around, i have seem nothing in-game indicating that the soulburst caused the Dragon to break, Varen's entitlement trying to become dragonborn made the dragon mad as hell and broke his pact with saint Alessia that's true but when the dragon breaks bad *** happens, just have to take a look back in TES 2 Daggerfall, the world went in a WTF moment when the dragon broke, from one day to another kingdoms were destroyed, others reborn (Orsinium), the largest powers in the high rock consolidated their power without even trying (no wars, no alliances, they just woke one day and look! our kingdoms got bigger/ were subjugated and we don't even remember how! WTF) a NEW god was killed and born at the same time (mannimarco as the necromancer's moon) among other things i don't remember.

While the soulburst takes place during the worst and longer Interregnum in the history of Tamriel, emperors and kings rose and fell all around, alliances and promises were made and broke, thousands died to war and the daedric invasion of molag bal, lots of knowledge were lost and it's possible that MANY of it was destroyed on purpose (like the Tharn's involvement in the soulburst since they retained important position as a noble family of Cyrodiil even after all the *** they helped create), then a man came, united the continent under his banner by the sword, province by province (the greatest no-life PVPlayer of all times lol) and probably tried to change or hide many things to further legitimize his claims and THAT's why the Interregnum is such a poorly-documented period in the history of Tamriel in MY opinion.

Well, ESO happens in 2E 582, Daggerfall happens in 3E 405, and Oblivion happens in 3E 433. So it's even possible that the Dragon Break in Daggerfall caused the geography changes.

But according to UESP.net (uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break), "The area that is noticeably affected, and length of the interval measured in the areas not apparently affected, varies with each Dragon Break." Each Dragon Break is unique.

Robo_Hobo

UTG_Zilla wrote: »

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

The cities and areas you speak of don't belong to cyrodiil at this point in time. Take Leyawiin and that thin stretch of land from the imperial city on the coast of the Niben, that isn't made a part of Cyrodiil until a couple decades prior to the events of TES:4 Oblivion, it was given to Cyrodiil after an agreement between the Mane and the Emporer - it was made because the Khajiit had won some land from Valenwood past the Xylo river (in ESO, the land that is Reaper's March partially belongs to Valenwood, and all of Malabor Tor, but after the five-year war between the Bosmer and Khajiit, just before Oblivion, the Khajiit own all of Reapers March and parts of Malabal Tor). So basically the Khajiit had to give away their eastern coast to cyrodiil because they won some land on their western border. Kinda unfair tbh but yeah.

In Oblivion, you may hear of the Renrija Krin whom want to make Leyawiin a part of Elsweyr again.

I knew that but given where Bravil currently, leyawiin's supposed location on eso Map would be a lot further south from Bravil than it is in oblivion.

Ah, in that case I'm not sure then.

AngryNord

Bruma, Chorrol and Cheydinhal are all in their right locations - it is the Imperial City that's too far north.

AngryNord

Also, the western, southern and south-eastern areas of Cyrodiil are 'cut off' from the current map