so why DID they stop Night silence 5set stacking with Dark stalker?

dsalter

i never saw the issue, the speed only ever worked IN stealth and OUT of combat, ok i admit the speed needed a slight nerf of like 5-10% but otherwise it was a huge damage sacrifice for mobility/engagement that everything but Nightblades needed when going stealth, wouldn't it be easier to just make it so stealth speed cannot exceed a set amount of speed boost? like 30% or something? so no matter how hard you stack stuff it cant break the limit making stacking every speed buff in stealth pointless.

edit: to add, this was countered by being seen so a set to increase stealth detection or a detection potion shut down the bonus

before anyone points out, put this in general since it involves both skill tree's and crafted sets.

ItsMeToo

It was nerfed because of one QQer didn't like how it looked to them and that one could out run some horses while in stealth.

dsalter

ItsMeToo wrote: »

It was nerfed because of one QQer didn't like how it looked to them and that one could out run some horses while in stealth.

probably right actually, i remembered alot of NB's abusing it ontop of their stuff to shuffle in and out of combat while hitting hard
but hence the limiter, damn annoying not being able to effectivly play a stealthy character and struggle with stealth initiation

ItsMeToo

It didn't work in combat.

dsalter

ItsMeToo wrote: »

It didn't work in combat.

i... said that?
hence why i'm surprised it was such an issue
just realised what i said, but i forgot to add that using cloak made it easier to rush out and drop combat so they could shuffle back in at higher speed then any other class with stealth and continue regenerated.

dsalter

only flaw i keep getting into when i think about it was it origionally was able to go faster then a horse, thats all the cons i can really think of in a speed like that... hence my limiter. bring that into effect Zeni and we non NB's can stealth propperly

MornaBaine

It couldn't make you go faster than the fastest horse. QQers just didn't like it. Most of them the same QQers who managed to successfully get vampires nerfed into the ground.

Tors

dsalter wrote: »

ok i admit the speed needed a slight nerf of like 5-10%

I love it when people make statements like this.

5-10% eh? Roughly?

Figures pulled out the air make for a great post filled with school boy arguements.


Anyway, I used to be able to run faster than a fully loaded african swallow, 5-10% my [hairy panda]

Junipus

Night's silence, dark stalker, concealed weapon and retreating maneuvers and you'd be flying across the map in stealth. While it was great fun at the time, it so needed an actual fix so it could not stack. If it wasn't done at the time it would have been done for 1.6

P3ZZL3

Tors wrote: »

Anyway, I used to be able to run faster than a fully loaded african swallow, 5-10% my [hairy panda]

Are you sure it was African and not European?

AlnilamE

Because while it was worded differently, it was essentially the same bonus (cancellation of sneak speed penalty) and it wasn't supposed to stack with itself.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

u used to be able to stack everything with anything
now everthing is nerfed to major and minor buffs

Turelus

It was funny to see but kind of over the top when you could see someone crouched and hidden moving faster than mounts.

I would assume the nerf was more of a fix and it was just intended that players could stack all of the armours/skills to get speeds that high.

R0M2K

Because only sorcs can sta k things.

ScruffyWhiskers

R0M2K wrote: »

Because only sorcs can sta k things.

LOL beat me to it. // Cloaks with popcorn ready.

ScruffyWhiskers

Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Aryas, there was an age undreamed of.....

I remember those wonderful halcyon days of night's silence, dark stalker and concealed weapon. Flying around with my stygian helm I looked like some small twisted goblin with a tail. I didn't mind occasionally running off down the stairs to Ales and killing myself with fall damage.

Not that I could use the set now since I am a magicka nb. 1.7 honestly scares me. I really don't know what I am going to have to turn into next. Interesting times and all that.

driosketch

MornaBaine wrote: »

It couldn't make you go faster than the fastest horse. QQers just didn't like it. Most of them the same QQers who managed to successfully get vampires nerfed into the ground.

This is technically true if you were talking the old speed horse with a little over 40 feedings into purly speed upgrades. The setup was faster than all other mounts maxed in speed, or if you went combo stats on a horse.

Gilvoth

because stealth is broken and does not work properly you Cannot use the armor or any of the speed bonuses in Combat.

the only time that stealth speed will work is Outside of Combat.

that stealth speed we had for us nightblades made the game more like morrowind for me and many many nightblades because of the similarity to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Pemenie_and_the_Boots_of_Blinding_Speed

i saw thousands of nightblaades finally happy and having fun and we loved it but could NOT be used for combat of anykind because as soon as you atack some one or do ANY damage to any one in PVP OR in PVE you would be stuck in combat and UNable to use those speeds because you were in combat.

the worst and most horrible thing that ever happened to me in elderscrolls online wass the removal of our sneak speeds.
i will never forget ...

during the PTS they had those speeds and stacked to the maximum speeds and we all went Directly to the staff and sent emails and all kinds of requests to Please make sure that this is Intended and make sure that this was allowed and understood that we had these high speeds and that it was allowed and we were told with strength repeatedly that this was most definately intended and working as it should and that they wanted us nightbllades to have those speeds, but within 60 days the staff redacted that statement and said that it was considered wrong and bad. even tho there was ZERO effect in pve and in combat and the speeds could only be used while traveling.

it took true depth of insult and audacity to remove those speeds we had.

i would do anything to have those speeds back,
there were hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people that left eso and made TONS of threads complaining and angry and down right insulted that those speeds were removed

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/130338/how-dare-you

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/132748/night-silence-set-dark-stalker-bring-back-the-old-bonuses-and-stacking

there is completely ZERO advantage in combat to have those speeds and ZERO advantage to playing eso with those speeds. there is NO counter aurgument, it was simply a reaction to people complaining on the forums.

Septimus_Magna

Retreating Maneuver + Cloak with Concealed Weapon + Vamp is still very fast.

On my low level magick NB I can keep this up 100% outside combat, its faster than my low level horse plus I move in stealth.

Gilvoth

i would do anything to have the speeds back, anything.
i would like to resubscribe to eso and play again but without those speeds i probably wont.

Gilvoth

why is no one responding to this thread?

Samadhi

Well, the only complaints about it were:

It makes vampires faster than horses!!
Made vampires faster than some, not others.
Vampires are super-natural beings, so it made perfect sense anyway.

No one could sneak that fast without me seeing them.
This was not an issue of the set, this is a misperception caused by ESO's inability to properly convey the scenery of Tamriel, namely Cyrodiil.
Much of Cyrodiil is vast unclaimed wildlands, ranging from forest vegetation to grasslands.

In a world without large-scale farming, or even so much as a lawn-mower, crouching down and sneaking in Cyrodiil would probably be more like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr1MvzAr26E

Not to mention snow-blindness in the Northern reaches, and how terrifying the Southern Marshlands would be to actually bog through.

Really though, it was removed because so many players complained so loudly for as many reasons as they could find.
There even were people saying that it made other players able to farm alchemy ingredients too fast.
Most people just do not want to see others have anything half-decent; a sense of competition within the community means a desire to see others do poorly, rather than simply to outdo them.

Gilvoth

dear zenimax,
please give us back our sneak speeds.

suelothvar

Because people cried at players moving fast and weren't smart enough to realise how much said player sacrificed to do so.. Result, said nightblades got new sets and now hit far harder . I miss my stealth speed.

suelothvar

Ohh and the real reason, the nail in the coffin = bag space. A vamp in the set ran fast and could train mount just for bag space. This made others cry as they trained mounts just for speed. Ofc this would no longer apply due to horse changes, but at time there was much "ohh waily waily"

Nonamesbutmineub17_ESO

dsalter wrote: »

i never saw the issue, the speed only ever worked IN stealth and OUT of combat, ok i admit the speed needed a slight nerf of like 5-10% but otherwise it was a huge damage sacrifice for mobility/engagement that everything but Nightblades needed when going stealth, wouldn't it be easier to just make it so stealth speed cannot exceed a set amount of speed boost? like 30% or something? so no matter how hard you stack stuff it cant break the limit making stacking every speed buff in stealth pointless.

edit: to add, this was countered by being seen so a set to increase stealth detection or a detection potion shut down the bonus

before anyone points out, put this in general since it involves both skill tree's and crafted sets.

It made NB's extremely OP. Combined with mist form and cloak and concealed weapon, I would go through a swarm of 40 players sieging a keep and burn every single siege weapon without dying. I was surprised it made it to live from PTS at all because the issue was mentioned multiple times in the PTS forum before the patch was released to the live server.

Attorneyatlawl

dsalter wrote: »

ItsMeToo wrote: »

It was nerfed because of one QQer didn't like how it looked to them and that one could out run some horses while in stealth.

probably right actually, i remembered alot of NB's abusing it ontop of their stuff to shuffle in and out of combat while hitting hard
but hence the limiter, damn annoying not being able to effectivly play a stealthy character and struggle with stealth initiation

ItsMeToo wrote: »

It didn't work in combat.

Dark Cloak. But it needed absolutely no nerf, in any case. I argued against it back in the day... .

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/129146/lets-clear-up-the-whole-stealth-speed-issue-w-vampires-hard-data-and-actual-testing-inside

Unfortunately, opportunity cost and math seem to be overlooked very, very often on forums like these .

Samadhi

Nonamesbutmineub17_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

i never saw the issue, the speed only ever worked IN stealth and OUT of combat, ok i admit the speed needed a slight nerf of like 5-10% but otherwise it was a huge damage sacrifice for mobility/engagement that everything but Nightblades needed when going stealth, wouldn't it be easier to just make it so stealth speed cannot exceed a set amount of speed boost? like 30% or something? so no matter how hard you stack stuff it cant break the limit making stacking every speed buff in stealth pointless.

edit: to add, this was countered by being seen so a set to increase stealth detection or a detection potion shut down the bonus

before anyone points out, put this in general since it involves both skill tree's and crafted sets.

It made NB's extremely OP. Combined with mist form and cloak and concealed weapon, I would go through a swarm of 40 players sieging a keep and burn every single siege weapon without dying. I was surprised it made it to live from PTS at all because the issue was mentioned multiple times in the PTS forum before the patch was released to the live server.

The set was back in the day when many Nightblades burned siege engines because they were not strong enough for actual combat.

The definition of "extremely OP" being setting fire to siege engines tho...

driosketch

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

ItsMeToo wrote: »

It was nerfed because of one QQer didn't like how it looked to them and that one could out run some horses while in stealth.

probably right actually, i remembered alot of NB's abusing it ontop of their stuff to shuffle in and out of combat while hitting hard
but hence the limiter, damn annoying not being able to effectivly play a stealthy character and struggle with stealth initiation

ItsMeToo wrote: »

It didn't work in combat.

Dark Cloak. But it needed absolutely no nerf, in any case. I argued against it back in the day... .

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/129146/lets-clear-up-the-whole-stealth-speed-issue-w-vampires-hard-data-and-actual-testing-inside

Unfortunately, opportunity cost and math seem to be overlooked very, very often on forums like these .

Not that I cared either way, but if I undstood the math, you needed to feed the fastest horse in the game 45/49 apples just to edge out the sneak speed stacking.

Nonamesbutmineub17_ESO

Samadhi wrote: »

Nonamesbutmineub17_ESO wrote: »

dsalter wrote: »

i never saw the issue, the speed only ever worked IN stealth and OUT of combat, ok i admit the speed needed a slight nerf of like 5-10% but otherwise it was a huge damage sacrifice for mobility/engagement that everything but Nightblades needed when going stealth, wouldn't it be easier to just make it so stealth speed cannot exceed a set amount of speed boost? like 30% or something? so no matter how hard you stack stuff it cant break the limit making stacking every speed buff in stealth pointless.

edit: to add, this was countered by being seen so a set to increase stealth detection or a detection potion shut down the bonus

before anyone points out, put this in general since it involves both skill tree's and crafted sets.

It made NB's extremely OP. Combined with mist form and cloak and concealed weapon, I would go through a swarm of 40 players sieging a keep and burn every single siege weapon without dying. I was surprised it made it to live from PTS at all because the issue was mentioned multiple times in the PTS forum before the patch was released to the live server.

The set was back in the day when many Nightblades burned siege engines because they were not strong enough for actual combat.

The definition of "extremely OP" being setting fire to siege engines tho...

Well the same play style worked really well for ganking also. But yes that was when nightblades where weaker and you had to rely on stealth mechanics more not to die if you were wearing medium armor.

eliisra

Well, travelling in Cyrodiil is suppose to be risky and dangerous, especially solo.

Want to get across the map fast, than sit on a mount, but deal with the price of being in constant mortal danger.

Want to play it safe than sneak, but the trade of is being slow.

With the crazy sneak speed you bypassed that entire Cyrodiil design. Could travel anywhere on the map with insane speed, with minimal risk of getting ganked or run over by enemy groups. Considering ZoS nerfed camps and also plans to restrict fast travelling to home keeps, it's not surprising they removed sneak speed stacking.

They dont want travelling around the map or reaching contested objectives, to be easy mode.

But the biggest issue with the sneak speed was related to camps really. Sneak speed stackers would run ahead of the scroll or raid and place camps all over. You had no chance of stopping it. Probably today, those speedy sneaky guys wouldn't be such a big problem.