ZOS-Player's Gimping themselves for an actually challenge, ESO we have a problem.

Morimizo

Yes please to the OPTION of instancing delves/dungeons. Sometimes it's fine to group with randoms, sometimes only with friends or solo. CHOICES.

CaptainObvious

That would be a haven of memory leaks that would probably cause dungeons to bomb the server for a while. It is a reasonable idea in principle. It would be quite draining on server resources.

Violynne

I must really suck at this game if it's deemed "too easy" by the OPs standards. I constantly get myself to a wayshrine when I take on bosses solo, especially as they get stronger (and develop options to avoid certain attacks).

Thing is, though: bullet sponges don't make a game difficult. Just outright annoying. I'm sure most have already figured out the pattern to take out most bosses: attack with specials twice, back off and let the enemy do theirs, then rinse/repeat for the kill.

The only time I have difficulty with this is if there are swarms of enemies in the room, often ganging up on me and throwing me to the curb.

I suspect this game has a "play with friends" motif about it, but playing solo has been challenging for me. Oddly enough, the actual solo events generally take about two attempts (to get their pattern down), and those, I feel, are a bit easy. Molag Bal, for example, was far easier in this game than the boss in Oblivion. Far easier.

If the option is to be made, then I request it be placed in settings, not a pop-up asking me every time I enter an area. If players want to scale it up, so be it, but I doubt this will cure their overall issue with the "difficulty" of the game.

I would rather see bosses throw out major curve balls instead of performing the exact same attack method every single time.

Slonekb05

Violynne wrote: »

I must really suck at this game if it's deemed "too easy" by the OPs standards. I constantly get myself to a wayshrine when I take on bosses solo, especially as they get stronger (and develop options to avoid certain attacks).

Thing is, though: bullet sponges don't make a game difficult. Just outright annoying. I'm sure most have already figured out the pattern to take out most bosses: attack with specials twice, back off and let the enemy do theirs, then rinse/repeat for the kill.

The only time I have difficulty with this is if there are swarms of enemies in the room, often ganging up on me and throwing me to the curb.

I suspect this game has a "play with friends" motif about it, but playing solo has been challenging for me. Oddly enough, the actual solo events generally take about two attempts (to get their pattern down), and those, I feel, are a bit easy. Molag Bal, for example, was far easier in this game than the boss in Oblivion. Far easier.

If the option is to be made, then I request it be placed in settings, not a pop-up asking me every time I enter an area. If players want to scale it up, so be it, but I doubt this will cure their overall issue with the "difficulty" of the game.

I would rather see bosses throw out major curve balls instead of performing the exact same attack method every single time.

Good read
You started off you reply on the other side, then by the end your saying game is easy as well. Your right, just adding more HP to enemy's doesn't make it more difficult. Adding hp/dmg is part of it of course, but to your point the AI itself needs tweaking, most enemy's you can literally stand there and not be killed for like 40-50sec (tested on variety of enemy's) Most mobs only attack you once every 3-6 sec and when they do its for very little dmg, you almost regen health as fast as enemy's can do dmg.

Slonekb05

CaptainObvious wrote: »

That would be a haven of memory leaks that would probably cause dungeons to bomb the server for a while. It is a reasonable idea in principle. It would be quite draining on server resources.

Would be some work of course, but is more than possible. MMO's for past decade have had instances, and there servers are ok. Technology better now than ever

demendred

Just be glad you don't loose gear when you die.

BBSooner

demendred wrote: »

Just be glad you don't loose gear when you die.

Do people actually die in PvE?

Slonekb05

demendred wrote: »

Just be glad you don't loose gear when you die.

Played Everquest for years... you had to run and get your corpse when you died on top of losing xp.

LucyferLightbringer

Would people who seek challenge be ok with runing stuff at higher difficulty as others, but receiving same rewards? Somehow i doubt it, with higher difficulty option would come demands for beter rewards and the option would not be so optional anymore. I'll take fun over challengge any day. My daily life challenges me enough i play to have fun.

BBSooner

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Would people who seek challenge be ok with runing stuff at higher difficulty as others, but receiving same rewards? Somehow i doubt it, with higher difficulty option would come demands for beter rewards and the option would not be so optional anymore. I'll take fun over challengge any day. My daily life challenges me enough i play to have fun.

The current loot system already makes this conversion easy.

Casual difficulty: Loot is Green
Normal Difficulty: Loot is Blue
Hard Difficulty: Loot is Purple
Hard+ Difficulty: Loot is Gold

All could be upgraded via crafters.

Itemization would be exactly the same between the difficulties, yet harder content would still provide greater rewards for the effort.

Slonekb05

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Would people who seek challenge be ok with runing stuff at higher difficulty as others, but receiving same rewards? Somehow i doubt it, with higher difficulty option would come demands for beter rewards and the option would not be so optional anymore. I'll take fun over challengge any day. My daily life challenges me enough i play to have fun.

I see your point. For me, and i can only speak for me.. i would not seek a higher reward. i would be fine if i completed a dungeon on hard getting the same reward as easy. I know most players would have a problem with that but me personally the challenge of a game is what i find fun. This goes for any game..if im fighting a boss and i kill it on first try... i feel disappointed. I like dieing a few times, then when i do win i feel like i accomplished something.

LucyferLightbringer

BBSooner wrote: »

The current loot system already makes this conversion easy.

Casual difficulty: Loot is Green
Normal Difficulty: Loot is Blue
Hard Difficulty: Loot is Purple
Hard+ Difficulty: Loot is Gold

All could be upgraded via crafters.

Itemization would be exactly the same between the difficulties, yet harder content would still provide greater rewards for the effort.

Then its as i thought and i'm against this "option".

Slonekb05

BBSooner wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Would people who seek challenge be ok with runing stuff at higher difficulty as others, but receiving same rewards? Somehow i doubt it, with higher difficulty option would come demands for beter rewards and the option would not be so optional anymore. I'll take fun over challengge any day. My daily life challenges me enough i play to have fun.

The current loot system already makes this conversion easy.

Casual difficulty: Loot is Green
Normal Difficulty: Loot is Blue
Hard Difficulty: Loot is Purple
Hard+ Difficulty: Loot is Gold

All could be upgraded via crafters.

Itemization would be exactly the same between the difficulties, yet harder content would still provide greater rewards for the effort.

Instead of reward for higher difficulty being loot based, it should just be a slightly higher xp count. Keep loot same for all, if not players will be at a disadvantage if they wanted to play on easy instead of hard. I don't want to see that, i want a higher difficultly purely for the fun of the challenge nothing more.

ShedsHisTail

Slonekb05 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

One thing I enjoyed about my other mmo. You went into zones above your level, you get dealt to in no uncertain terms. Enemy npc would target players not of sufficient level to be in the zone. Or at least it appeared that way.

I recall back in my EQ days, the greater the level disparity between your character and the mob, the greater the aggro range. Meaning, if you were insufficiently leveled for a specific zone, you'd aggro everything within shouting distance just being there.

Tended to make you the first target even when travelling with friends.

this is completely off topic, played EQ for 5yr's. was no such mechanic, i was aware of(Iskar beast-lord). But as far as difficulty EQ was great, you could solo but it was slow going so you actually wanted to see other ppl and group with them.

I exaggerated to some degree, yes, but being lower level definitely gave you a wider aggro range.
My biggest beef with EQs model was that it wasn't so much geared toward encouraging grouping as it was toward requiring it. Yeah, you could find a nice camping spot and solo, but the going was slow and anyone who grouped regularly would out-level you really quick.

Which, in time, leads to lower populations in lower level zones, fewer folks to group with, and even slower advancement for alts.

At least, this is how it was in the first four or five years of the game. I think I only played up through the Moon expansion. May have changed after that.

But really, that's the balance you need to strike. The world should encourage grouping for some encounters, but not require it for progression. I think ESO is on the right track here with their world bosses and dolmens and public delves to encourage grouping and a nice steady stream of quests to allow for solo progression.

BBSooner

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

The current loot system already makes this conversion easy.

Casual difficulty: Loot is Green
Normal Difficulty: Loot is Blue
Hard Difficulty: Loot is Purple
Hard+ Difficulty: Loot is Gold

All could be upgraded via crafters.

Itemization would be exactly the same between the difficulties, yet harder content would still provide greater rewards for the effort.

Then its as i thought and i'm against this "option".

As opposed to doing difficult content and getting the same rewards as the guy spamming 2 buttons, standing in red, just because they're too bad to do better? A fair scale is what ZOS should be striving for, not punishing one segment for the limitations of the other.

BBSooner

Slonekb05 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Would people who seek challenge be ok with runing stuff at higher difficulty as others, but receiving same rewards? Somehow i doubt it, with higher difficulty option would come demands for beter rewards and the option would not be so optional anymore. I'll take fun over challengge any day. My daily life challenges me enough i play to have fun.

The current loot system already makes this conversion easy.

Casual difficulty: Loot is Green
Normal Difficulty: Loot is Blue
Hard Difficulty: Loot is Purple
Hard+ Difficulty: Loot is Gold

All could be upgraded via crafters.

Itemization would be exactly the same between the difficulties, yet harder content would still provide greater rewards for the effort.

Instead of reward for higher difficulty being loot based, it should just be a slightly higher xp count. Keep loot same for all, if not players will be at a disadvantage if they wanted to play on easy instead of hard. I don't want to see that, i want a higher difficultly purely for the fun of the challenge nothing more.

XP creates increased disparity between champion points. The differences should be loot that can be upgraded to reach the same hard-cap. If all of it is upgradable then all players can make all gear gold, and all players will be able to reach the exact same gear limit.

Slonekb05

BBSooner wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Would people who seek challenge be ok with runing stuff at higher difficulty as others, but receiving same rewards? Somehow i doubt it, with higher difficulty option would come demands for beter rewards and the option would not be so optional anymore. I'll take fun over challengge any day. My daily life challenges me enough i play to have fun.

The current loot system already makes this conversion easy.

Casual difficulty: Loot is Green
Normal Difficulty: Loot is Blue
Hard Difficulty: Loot is Purple
Hard+ Difficulty: Loot is Gold

All could be upgraded via crafters.

Itemization would be exactly the same between the difficulties, yet harder content would still provide greater rewards for the effort.

Instead of reward for higher difficulty being loot based, it should just be a slightly higher xp count. Keep loot same for all, if not players will be at a disadvantage if they wanted to play on easy instead of hard. I don't want to see that, i want a higher difficultly purely for the fun of the challenge nothing more.

XP creates increased disparity between champion points. The differences should be loot that can be upgraded to reach the same hard-cap. If all of it is upgradable then all players can make all gear gold, and all players will be able to reach the exact same gear limit.

I see what your saying, but in my OP i have no interest in better rewards for people playing at a harder difficulty. I want difficulty setting just for the enjoyment of the challenge. But yes players would demand something for a harder lv, again i would not want to see it loot based(I understand your point completely) Small xp gain , would be less dramatic.

LucyferLightbringer

BBSooner wrote: »

As opposed to doing difficult content and getting the same rewards as the guy spamming 2 buttons, standing in red, just because they're too bad to do better? A fair scale is what ZOS should be striving for, not punishing one segment for the limitations of the other.

Lack of increased reward for increased difficulty which you choose is not punishment.

BBSooner

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

As opposed to doing difficult content and getting the same rewards as the guy spamming 2 buttons, standing in red, just because they're too bad to do better? A fair scale is what ZOS should be striving for, not punishing one segment for the limitations of the other.

Lack of increased reward for increased difficulty which you choose is not punishment.

It's being punished for choosing the option the player deems fun. What if the easy difficulty provided no loot, and only loot dropped in the harder instances, would that not punish the players who needed to choose easy since that's what they have fun with?

Slonekb05

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

One thing I enjoyed about my other mmo. You went into zones above your level, you get dealt to in no uncertain terms. Enemy npc would target players not of sufficient level to be in the zone. Or at least it appeared that way.

I recall back in my EQ days, the greater the level disparity between your character and the mob, the greater the aggro range. Meaning, if you were insufficiently leveled for a specific zone, you'd aggro everything within shouting distance just being there.

Tended to make you the first target even when travelling with friends.

this is completely off topic, played EQ for 5yr's. was no such mechanic, i was aware of(Iskar beast-lord). But as far as difficulty EQ was great, you could solo but it was slow going so you actually wanted to see other ppl and group with them.

I exaggerated to some degree, yes, but being lower level definitely gave you a wider aggro range.
My biggest beef with EQs model was that it wasn't so much geared toward encouraging grouping as it was toward requiring it. Yeah, you could find a nice camping spot and solo, but the going was slow and anyone who grouped regularly would out-level you really quick.

Which, in time, leads to lower populations in lower level zones, fewer folks to group with, and even slower advancement for alts.

At least, this is how it was in the first four or five years of the game. I think I only played up through the Moon expansion. May have changed after that.

But really, that's the balance you need to strike. The world should encourage grouping for some encounters, but not require it for progression. I think ESO is on the right track here with their world bosses and dolmens and public delves to encourage grouping and a nice steady stream of quests to allow for solo progression.

Your correct, it did gear you towards grouping more. But think about soloing in EQ... after a battle your health/mana did not magically go back to 100% you actually had to sit down and meditate for it to regen quicker, this is what made soloing slow and more difficult. ESO would have no such problem if you made it harder as your health/mana comes back right away, so no down time. Im with you though...im not saying make it EQ hard...but there's a balance in between that i would like to see.

markt84

You want a challenge? Play PvP

BBSooner

Slonekb05 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Would people who seek challenge be ok with runing stuff at higher difficulty as others, but receiving same rewards? Somehow i doubt it, with higher difficulty option would come demands for beter rewards and the option would not be so optional anymore. I'll take fun over challengge any day. My daily life challenges me enough i play to have fun.

The current loot system already makes this conversion easy.

Casual difficulty: Loot is Green
Normal Difficulty: Loot is Blue
Hard Difficulty: Loot is Purple
Hard+ Difficulty: Loot is Gold

All could be upgraded via crafters.

Itemization would be exactly the same between the difficulties, yet harder content would still provide greater rewards for the effort.

Instead of reward for higher difficulty being loot based, it should just be a slightly higher xp count. Keep loot same for all, if not players will be at a disadvantage if they wanted to play on easy instead of hard. I don't want to see that, i want a higher difficultly purely for the fun of the challenge nothing more.

XP creates increased disparity between champion points. The differences should be loot that can be upgraded to reach the same hard-cap. If all of it is upgradable then all players can make all gear gold, and all players will be able to reach the exact same gear limit.

I see what your saying, but in my OP i have no interest in better rewards for people playing at a harder difficulty. I want difficulty setting just for the enjoyment of the challenge. But yes players would demand something for a harder lv, again i would not want to see it loot based(I understand your point completely) Small xp gain , would be less dramatic.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The point of the reward is to receive something comparable to the effort expended. It's the whole point of having rewards in the first place. The reward should match the effort, otherwise the reward is meaningless. Otherwise keeping us all equal with no varying loot would accomplish the exact same goal.

Slonekb05

markt84 wrote: »

You want a challenge? Play PvP

Most irrelevant response goes to...

LucyferLightbringer

BBSooner wrote: »

It's being punished for choosing the option the player deems fun. What if the easy difficulty provided no loot, and only loot dropped in the harder instances, would that not punish the players who needed to choose easy since that's what they have fun with?

Your reward for choosing option you deem fun is having fun. You still get same loot as others.
Sorry but i fail to see any reason in your example. I didn't say people who chose hard should get no loot. They should get same loot as others.

BBSooner

markt84 wrote: »

You want a challenge? Play PvP

With the types of players being rolled out of this PvE experience? Most don't even dodge or interrupt.

Slonekb05

BBSooner wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

Would people who seek challenge be ok with runing stuff at higher difficulty as others, but receiving same rewards? Somehow i doubt it, with higher difficulty option would come demands for beter rewards and the option would not be so optional anymore. I'll take fun over challengge any day. My daily life challenges me enough i play to have fun.

The current loot system already makes this conversion easy.

Casual difficulty: Loot is Green
Normal Difficulty: Loot is Blue
Hard Difficulty: Loot is Purple
Hard+ Difficulty: Loot is Gold

All could be upgraded via crafters.

Itemization would be exactly the same between the difficulties, yet harder content would still provide greater rewards for the effort.

Instead of reward for higher difficulty being loot based, it should just be a slightly higher xp count. Keep loot same for all, if not players will be at a disadvantage if they wanted to play on easy instead of hard. I don't want to see that, i want a higher difficultly purely for the fun of the challenge nothing more.

XP creates increased disparity between champion points. The differences should be loot that can be upgraded to reach the same hard-cap. If all of it is upgradable then all players can make all gear gold, and all players will be able to reach the exact same gear limit.

I see what your saying, but in my OP i have no interest in better rewards for people playing at a harder difficulty. I want difficulty setting just for the enjoyment of the challenge. But yes players would demand something for a harder lv, again i would not want to see it loot based(I understand your point completely) Small xp gain , would be less dramatic.

We'll have to agree to disagree. The point of the reward is to receive something comparable to the effort expended. It's the whole point of having rewards in the first place. The reward should match the effort, otherwise the reward is meaningless. Otherwise keeping us all equal with no varying loot would accomplish the exact same goal.

The goal is getting more challenging fights for fun. I don't seek better loot than anyone else. I understand i would be in the minority of that argument, a small xp increase would accomplish a small reward without penalizing players who don't want to play on hard. There's a balance that could be found im sure.

markt84

BBSooner wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

You want a challenge? Play PvP

With the types of players being rolled out of this PvE experience? Most don't even dodge or interrupt.

Yeah but everyone dies in PvP. No one gets through that without getting killed. Even if youre an op PC transfer to consoles, you will get killed. It just might take 10 dudes to do it. And I bet it's fun fight 10 people at once and holding your own, I wouldn't know anything about that, but I'm sure it's a good time. No matter your skill level, there is always a challenge in PvP

BBSooner

LucyferLightbringer wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

It's being punished for choosing the option the player deems fun. What if the easy difficulty provided no loot, and only loot dropped in the harder instances, would that not punish the players who needed to choose easy since that's what they have fun with?

Your reward for choosing option you deem fun is having fun. You still get same loot as others.
Sorry but i fail to see any reason in your example. I didn't say people who chose hard should get no loot. They should get same loot as others.

DSA normal vs DSA vet

Different difficulties have different loot. Always going to happen.

BBSooner

markt84 wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

You want a challenge? Play PvP

With the types of players being rolled out of this PvE experience? Most don't even dodge or interrupt.

Yeah but everyone dies in PvP. No one gets through that without getting killed. Even if youre an op PC transfer to consoles, you will get killed. It just might take 10 dudes to do it. And I bet it's fun fight 10 people at once and holding your own, I wouldn't know anything about that, but I'm sure it's a good time. No matter your skill level, there is always a challenge in PvP

We probably have different definitions of "challenge". I view a challenge as putting my best vs the best of someone/thing else in a fair contest. I wouldn't say being piled on by 10 people was a challenge, though you're right - it's fun.

LucyferLightbringer

Slonekb05 wrote: »

The goal is getting more challenging fights for fun. I don't seek better loot than anyone else. I understand i would be in the minority of that argument, a small xp increase would accomplish a small reward without penalizing players who don't want to play on hard. There's a balance that could be found im sure.

Sadly i fear there are not many people like you, who want increased challenge for the sake of fun. Fun i could always support and agree with. Elitism, min maxing and turning gaming into second job i can not support. I want all of this dirty side of mmos to remain in group dungeons where i can safely avoid it.