ZOS-Player's Gimping themselves for an actually challenge, ESO we have a problem.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

GreySix wrote: »

I'm fine with scalable difficulty, but would oppose increasing difficulty for all. As someone above wrote, many casual gamers play this game when they're off-work, after they're finished taking care of their kids, not engrossed an any other number of life-time minutia that suck the life out of adults ... and the last thing they want is a grueling challenge, since that's what they're trying to escape.

And don't get me started on the woeful grouping (or lack thereof) mechanics in 1-50, where most of the main darn story is forced-solo.

Thanks for pointing that out, Made an edit on OP. I already had in the option idea, but just took out "overall difficulty"

MikeB · July 2015

Also, most MMO's are a solo leveling experience unless you choose to group up with others. I dont know how many MMO's you have played but in all the ones I have played other players are always "annoying/unnecessary to come across".

Slonekb05 · July 2015

MikeB wrote: »

This is an MMO keyword massive, they want to appeal to the most people possible which means the difficulty when leveling, as with most games in general and especially MMO's, is going to be on the easy side. The challenge with MMO's comes in the dungeons, raids and PvP. Until you start doing Vet Dungeons and Trials stop complaining because you havent even cracked the tip of the iceberg of what this game offers in difficulty. There are several group quest and area bosses that cannot be completed at level without at least one other person

Read OP please, looking for options, and i am well within my right to express my opinion as are you.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

MikeB wrote: »

Also, most MMO's are a solo leveling experience unless you choose to group up with others. I dont know how many MMO's you have played but in all the ones I have played other players are always "annoying/unnecessary to come across".

Played Everquest for 5yr's and many others for short spans, and in EQ you needed ppl. You could solo stuff sure, but would be slow going compared to if you grouped up. And 54+ man raids, definitely needed people in EQ.

Morvul · July 2015

the usuall argument in favour of the current "difficulty" level is that people playing a Stamina DPS based Khajiit Sorcerer with a Resto-Staff as a main weapon, wearing dropped heavy armor 20 levels below their character level also want to be able to solo all group content the game has to offer.
And if us elitist jerks who think the game is too easy while playing naked and using nothing but the left mousebutton still get bored, then we better find another way to gimp ourselves because everything else would just be unfair...

Morvul · July 2015

DenMoria wrote: »

Not all of us are the "Expert" gamers that you are (actually I would assume most of us are not experts).

This is an MMO for goodness sake. Not everybody who plays is going to be hardcore.

well, since it actually is a massive MULTIPLAYER online game... I'd strongly recommend to find some other folks to help out when content is actually too dificult to solo... (or learn how to become better and actually solo it anyway... both are perfectly fine options)

Roco32373 · July 2015

Slonekb05 wrote: »

Summary: First off i love the game, having said that there are some big problems.This post is only commenting on LV's 1-50, I'm not Vet rank so i cannot comment personally on that yet, Please don't reply with "LV 1-50 is easy mode, it gets harder at Vet ranks!", I understand that and its part of my point, why do i have to wait so long for the game to pose a challenge?. Firstly the game's LV1-50 feels like a single player game with other players running around getting in your way. Right now what we have is a MMO with no need for other ppl. Outside of a group dungeon, the content is so easy its down right trivial, you don't ever "need" to group, so players just become annoying/unnecessary to come across. This lack of difficulty also makes you not even care about what your doing on a quest, you almost get the mentality of "well, lets just get this over with." A difficulty increase is needed so players are a welcomed site rather than a buzz kill ruining your dungeons. Lv 1-50 has so much good content but seems wasted because of this, I understand being able to Solo, but Solo everything with ease? if you want to go that direction, give us an option for instance delvs/dungeons. In fact ESO already has LV scaling/instances, in main story/group dungeons. Just needs expanded upon further.

1. PVE difficulty .
This is a huge issue, while the story is good, the combat is no challenge at all. There is no reason to have to make tactical choices based on if your playing solo or in duo/group. You can slap any skills together with any base equipment and be a god(Example: able to kill 3-4mobs at a time that are 5 Lv's higher than you, Even able to kill 1-2 mobs at a time 15-20lvs higher). You need to be able to choose an option to level scale quests/dungeons/increase or decrease difficultly of quests, this will allow players to customize there own experience and would also make lower zones/quests worth while to all Lv's (There is the occasional good fight, which is what i would love to see a lot more of) Player's Gimping themselves by playing naked is not the answer, and should be a humongous red flag !

2. Adding Instance dungeons.
Yes this is an MMO and you expect to see playing roaming the world. But what ends up happening is you walk into a random dungeon and are met with 4 players already inside who have cleared the enemy's and boss away. I cant tell you how often i am in a duo with my brother and i say this phrase" Lets give it 3-4min, 4players just ran through" My suggestion is add an option so that each dungeon (All Dungeons/Delvs) that requires you to zone into them, Can be played Public (default) or in a Instance (solo/group). When You go to zone in it should prompt you with a choice.This option would also work in conjunction with the difficulty setting. Each player could scale a quest/delve to a higher or lower difficulty setting, accommodating everyone.

Thank you for the read. I have been posting mad about this topic and will continue to do so.

Most MMOs that I have played (WoW, FFXIV) offer no challenge in the leveling process either. As long as the dungeons cannot be one-manned, I think it's fine as is.

Gidorick · July 2015

I've been wanting to try permadeath gameplay where if I die in a non-quest related way (If it was at ALL avoidable) I delete my character and start again.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

I've been wanting to try permadeath gameplay where if I die in a non-quest related way (If it was at ALL avoidable) I delete my character and start again.

Now that's hardcore even to me lol, I dig it though. But with restrictions on how many characters you can delete i wouldn't recommend it.

Troneon · July 2015

OP is right and people been complaining about this since beta, nothing has changed and nothing will change.

Get used to it.

DevilFangs · July 2015

Tolmos wrote: »

Slonekb05 wrote: »

1. PVE difficulty .
This is a huge issue, while the story is good, the combat is no challenge at all. There is no reason to have to make tactical choices based on if your playing solo or in duo/group. You can slap any skills together with any base equipment and be a god(Example: able to kill 3-4mobs at a time that are 5 Lv's higher than you, Even able to kill 1-2 mobs at a time 15-20lvs higher). Either a change needs to be made to the overall difficulty or you need to be able to choose an option to level scale quests/dungeons/increase difficultly, this will allow players to customize there experience and make lower zones/quests worth while (There is the occasional good fight, which is what i would love to see a lot more of) Player's Gimping themselves by playing naked is not the answer, and should be a humongous red flag !

This was a big shock to me when I first started. I got to level 14 and got my Vamp Bite... and proceeded to easily farm the 10 level 38 NPCs I needed for the following quest. At level 14.

Yea...

I was level 3 character with no armor, no flame weapon, just the bow from my urn on my 3rd vamp character.
Smashed the vampire quest. I laughed, and I cried. I wondered why, but then I felt beast mode so didn't take it to heart.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Troneon wrote: »

OP is right and people been complaining about this since beta, nothing has changed and nothing will change.

Get used to it.

I fear your right, may have to wait for ESO 2 way down the line. Still have to try though.

firstdecan · July 2015

Athas24 wrote: »

I just wish it went back to the difficulty we had at launch

Now that they've improved the stam builds, maybe.

I was one of the complainers about the "difficulty," although I didn't find it necessarily difficult. I found it tedious. I was playing a dual wield DK at the time (not a stick and skirt build), so taking on groups of 3 trash mobs required some effort to avoid dying. I managed to get through all of Cadwell's gold before they nerfed the difficulty (with a "stam build" character), but it took some effort. I would have to be careful about how I would attack groups of 3 trash mobs, meanwhile the stick and dress builds were basically walking through the game.

What I wished they had done was left the VR10 zone at that level of difficulty, with better progressive scaling from VR1 to VR10. At the time you would go from roflstomping your way through Cold Harbor to hitting a brick wall once you got to VR1. I think better progressive graduation of the difficulty would have been a better answer, instead of just the all around nerf that they did. Make the VR1 zone marginally more difficult than Cold Harbor, keep the VR10 zone at the difficulty it was at, and then adjust the intermediate zones so it scaled up in between.

Coatmagic · July 2015

Want a challenge? Don't wear anything with stats and don't spend those CPs

Rakshat · July 2015

I loved leveling 1-50 back when the game came out. But soon enough they kinda started nefing stuff. Now I'm doing lvl 29 quests on my lvl 16 alt and the only reason I'm struggling is that my poor lvl 16 keeps missing a lot. Not that I'm complaining, kind of more of a challenge that way:D

Morvul · July 2015

Coatmagic wrote: »

Want a challenge? Don't wear anything with stats and don't spend those CPs

been there, done that - and it's quite possible...

but why am I progessing my character if I have to play naked to not be bored?

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Rakshat wrote: »

I loved leveling 1-50 back when the game came out. But soon enough they kinda started nefing stuff. Now I'm doing lvl 29 quests on my lvl 16 alt and the only reason I'm struggling is that my poor lvl 16 keeps missing a lot. Not that I'm complaining, kind of more of a challenge that way:D

Sucks that we have to do things, to create a challenge for ourselves.

lathbury · July 2015

firstdecan wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

I just wish it went back to the difficulty we had at launch

Now that they've improved the stam builds, maybe.

I was one of the complainers about the "difficulty," although I didn't find it necessarily difficult. I found it tedious. I was playing a dual wield DK at the time (not a stick and skirt build), so taking on groups of 3 trash mobs required some effort to avoid dying. I managed to get through all of Cadwell's gold before they nerfed the difficulty (with a "stam build" character), but it took some effort. I would have to be careful about how I would attack groups of 3 trash mobs, meanwhile the stick and dress builds were basically walking through the game.

What I wished they had done was left the VR10 zone at that level of difficulty, with better progressive scaling from VR1 to VR10. At the time you would go from roflstomping your way through Cold Harbor to hitting a brick wall once you got to VR1. I think better progressive graduation of the difficulty would have been a better answer, instead of just the all around nerf that they did. Make the VR1 zone marginally more difficult than Cold Harbor, keep the VR10 zone at the difficulty it was at, and then adjust the intermediate zones so it scaled up in between.

so we have you to blame nice one and here you are complaining that now its to easy well in your case careful what you wish for. dont use playing a stam build at launch as an excuse either there were a few of us like myself who were playing gimped build stam ww nb anyone. compared to a launch dk that was severely gimped.

I wished they had left the difficulty as it was.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

lathbury wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

I just wish it went back to the difficulty we had at launch

Now that they've improved the stam builds, maybe.

I was one of the complainers about the "difficulty," although I didn't find it necessarily difficult. I found it tedious. I was playing a dual wield DK at the time (not a stick and skirt build), so taking on groups of 3 trash mobs required some effort to avoid dying. I managed to get through all of Cadwell's gold before they nerfed the difficulty (with a "stam build" character), but it took some effort. I would have to be careful about how I would attack groups of 3 trash mobs, meanwhile the stick and dress builds were basically walking through the game.

What I wished they had done was left the VR10 zone at that level of difficulty, with better progressive scaling from VR1 to VR10. At the time you would go from roflstomping your way through Cold Harbor to hitting a brick wall once you got to VR1. I think better progressive graduation of the difficulty would have been a better answer, instead of just the all around nerf that they did. Make the VR1 zone marginally more difficult than Cold Harbor, keep the VR10 zone at the difficulty it was at, and then adjust the intermediate zones so it scaled up in between.

so we have you to blame nice one and here you are complaining that now its to easy well in your case careful what you wish for. dont use playing a stam build at launch as an excuse either there were a few of us like myself who were playing gimped build stam ww nb anyone. compared to a launch dk that was severely gimped.

I wished they had left the difficulty as it was.

Agreed, not bashing the guy. But it is a be careful what you wish for type of situation. Off analogy, but a hard game is like being cold... i can always put on a sweater or blanket to warm up. ( IE. Get stronger) Not much you can do when your hot, but just suffer through it.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

Slonekb05 wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

firstdecan wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

I just wish it went back to the difficulty we had at launch

Now that they've improved the stam builds, maybe.

I was one of the complainers about the "difficulty," although I didn't find it necessarily difficult. I found it tedious. I was playing a dual wield DK at the time (not a stick and skirt build), so taking on groups of 3 trash mobs required some effort to avoid dying. I managed to get through all of Cadwell's gold before they nerfed the difficulty (with a "stam build" character), but it took some effort. I would have to be careful about how I would attack groups of 3 trash mobs, meanwhile the stick and dress builds were basically walking through the game.

What I wished they had done was left the VR10 zone at that level of difficulty, with better progressive scaling from VR1 to VR10. At the time you would go from roflstomping your way through Cold Harbor to hitting a brick wall once you got to VR1. I think better progressive graduation of the difficulty would have been a better answer, instead of just the all around nerf that they did. Make the VR1 zone marginally more difficult than Cold Harbor, keep the VR10 zone at the difficulty it was at, and then adjust the intermediate zones so it scaled up in between.

so we have you to blame nice one and here you are complaining that now its to easy well in your case careful what you wish for. dont use playing a stam build at launch as an excuse either there were a few of us like myself who were playing gimped build stam ww nb anyone. compared to a launch dk that was severely gimped.

I wished they had left the difficulty as it was.

Agreed, not bashing the guy. But it is a be careful what you wish for type of situation. Off analogy, but a hard game is like being cold... i can always put on a sweater or blanket to warm up. ( IE. Get stronger) Not much you can do when your hot(easy game), but just suffer through it.

Carter_DC · July 2015

Man, you're gonna be so bored when you'll get VR14. U should consider breaking off some fingers in order to have some feeling of challenge in vet dungeons.

ESO was so much more fun at the beginning. 4 lvl12 had actually a hard time in banished cells. and vet fungal was a nightmare for vr5 players when it got out.

ShedsHisTail · July 2015

I remember Beta when the complaint was that it was too hard... Good times.

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

LOL at people who spend month to get to max lvl, get best gear and best stats, perfect their builds and they act all super surprised that game suddenly became easy. LOL what did you expect when you equipped that 2 times better piece of gear and put all shiny new enchants on it? That +200 is actually -200 and when it tells you that it increases damage you will actually hit for less?

Complain about lack of new harder content to run.

But dont spit out generic statements like "game too easy" because its not. When was last time you run a dungeon with PUG, someone who was there for first time. When did you paid a visit to your starting zone to see players who just start game? Maybe game is too easy for you, and your 1% friends with whom you crate your perfect groups after running same dungeon for 20th time. But there is still 99% left who everyone apparently forgets about.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

MaximusDargus wrote: »

LOL at people who spend month to get to max lvl, get best gear and best stats, perfect their builds and they act all super surprised that game suddenly became easy. LOL what did you expect when you equipped that 2 times better piece of gear and put all shiny new enchants on it? That +200 is actually -200 and when it tells you that it increases damage you will actually hit for less?

Complain about lack of new harder content to run.

But dont spit out generic statements like "game too easy" because its not. When was last time you run a dungeon with PUG, someone who was there for first time. When did you paid a visit to your starting zone to see players who just start game? Maybe game is too easy for you, and your 1% friends with whom you crate your perfect groups after running same dungeon for 20th time. But there is still 99% left who everyone apparently forgets about.

Your statement holds no water at all . I have only been playing since release on console. I'm commenting on how easy EVERYTHING is, and its my first time running through it. I have no purples, some blues/greens, i dont even use food/potions, enchantments, because frankly there is no need.

phairdon · July 2015

Korozenn wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

Kerioko wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

I just wish it went back to the difficulty we had at launch

Yeah, the days when Doshia made you wipe at least 5-6 times until you found a strategy to kill her. The days when you actually needed people to take down world bosses. And the days when the forums where full of people complaining about how hard vet mobs were!

I miss those days too! Now if you want a challenge, you do things like soloing DSA or vet pledges!

You only died 5-6 times? Nice. I had to try many mores times lol

I can see why the questing and mobs are not difficult, its really solo content. I would like to see dolmens and world bosses upped a bit though so you are given a reason outside of group dungeons to group up

Dolmens do need to be geared towards groups like they used to. I've always viewed them as group affairs, while the Rifts were more for solo play. It's actually really disheartening to see them be able to be soloed now, and this is coming from me, the same guy who wants the option to play Delves and Dungeons in a Solo Instance as a viable option.

Agree with the statement about dolmens.
Came across a level 11 player soloing a level 30 something dolmen. No way should a player that many levels below be able to take on enemy maybe 3 times or more, their current level. Then again, I also witnessed a level 10 player in the last zone before cold harbor get one shot by an enemy npc.

One thing I enjoyed about my other mmo. You went into zones above your level, you get dealt to in no uncertain terms. Enemy npc would target players not of sufficient level to be in the zone. Or at least it appeared that way.

ShedsHisTail · July 2015

phairdon wrote: »

One thing I enjoyed about my other mmo. You went into zones above your level, you get dealt to in no uncertain terms. Enemy npc would target players not of sufficient level to be in the zone. Or at least it appeared that way.

I recall back in my EQ days, the greater the level disparity between your character and the mob, the greater the aggro range. Meaning, if you were insufficiently leveled for a specific zone, you'd aggro everything within shouting distance just being there.

Tended to make you the first target even when travelling with friends.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

One thing I enjoyed about my other mmo. You went into zones above your level, you get dealt to in no uncertain terms. Enemy npc would target players not of sufficient level to be in the zone. Or at least it appeared that way.

I recall back in my EQ days, the greater the level disparity between your character and the mob, the greater the aggro range. Meaning, if you were insufficiently leveled for a specific zone, you'd aggro everything within shouting distance just being there.

Tended to make you the first target even when travelling with friends.

this is completely off topic, played EQ for 5yr's. was no such mechanic, i was aware of(Iskar beast-lord). But as far as difficulty EQ was great, you could solo but it was slow going so you actually wanted to see other ppl and group with them.

ADarklore · July 2015

People talking about others soloing Dolemens... you do realize that the Dolemen will scale to the amount of players attacking it, right? So if someone is soloing it, there will be less adds... I've solo'd a few and noticed that it was easy because of how few adds spawned... whereas other Dolmens with a lot of people, there are tons of adds dropping in. This is why Dolemens are easy to solo, because they scale to the number of players participating.

Also, as far as this game being an MMO... this game is NOT IN ANY WAY a 'traditional' MMO. This game is geared more towards solo players (single-player Elder Scrolls players) and those who want to group when they want, or not... with some PvP thrown in for good measure. That is one of the many things I love about ESO, is that I can play solo without being forced to group- unlike other MMOs out there.

As far as difficulty, good players do better and thus make things easier, also, good players research, they learn, they craft, they improve their equipment, etc... all of which increase the 'easiness' of the game. For many players, they just want to jump in and play without having to devote so much time to min/maxing their capabilities.

In regards to the wanting delves and other content to scale to individuals, this would take an enormous amount of time in recoding just to cater to a small number of people complaining about it; which of course would take away from new content creation, bug fixes, etc. As it is, solo instances scale to our own level and grouped instances scale to the group leaders level... it sounds more like you are asking for a 'difficulty setting'... which is a nice idea, but I don't recall any MMO out there having such a feature- just single player offline games. I could be wrong, but never seen an MMO with a difficulty setting.

Dradhok · July 2015

I don't know some parts are pretty easy. I accidentally skipped a whole zone my first time through. If you accidentally skip a zone you should be owned regularly but I was soloing world bosses with ease.

Slonekb05 · July 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

People talking about others soloing Dolemens... you do realize that the Dolemen will scale to the amount of players attacking it, right? So if someone is soloing it, there will be less adds... I've solo'd a few and noticed that it was easy because of how few adds spawned... whereas other Dolmens with a lot of people, there are tons of adds dropping in. This is why Dolemens are easy to solo, because they scale to the number of players participating.

Also, as far as this game being an MMO... this game is NOT IN ANY WAY a 'traditional' MMO. This game is geared more towards solo players (single-player Elder Scrolls players) and those who want to group when they want, or not... with some PvP thrown in for good measure. That is one of the many things I love about ESO, is that I can play solo without being forced to group- unlike other MMOs out there.

As far as difficulty, good players do better and thus make things easier, also, good players research, they learn, they craft, they improve their equipment, etc... all of which increase the 'easiness' of the game. For many players, they just want to jump in and play without having to devote so much time to min/maxing their capabilities.

In regards to the wanting delves and other content to scale to individuals, this would take an enormous amount of time in recoding just to cater to a small number of people complaining about it; which of course would take away from new content creation, bug fixes, etc. As it is, solo instances scale to our own level and grouped instances scale to the group leaders level... it sounds more like you are asking for a 'difficulty setting'... which is a nice idea, but I don't recall any MMO out there having such a feature- just single player offline games. I could be wrong, but never seen an MMO with a difficulty setting.

good read, will counter a few points.

"Also, as far as this game being an MMO... this game is NOT IN ANY WAY a 'traditional' MMO. This game is geared more towards solo players (single-player Elder Scrolls players) and those who want to group when they want, or not... with some PvP thrown in for good measure. That is one of the many things I love about ESO, is that I can play solo without being forced to group- unlike other MMOs out there."
Exactly my point, ZOS wants us to solo..so give me an option to actually be able to solo and get away from ppl giving me help that i don't want/need. (hence the instance dungeons idea)

"In regards to the wanting delves and other content to scale to individuals, this would take an enormous amount of time in recoding just to cater to a small number of people complaining about it; which of course would take away from new content creation, bug fixes, etc. As it is, solo instances scale to our own level and grouped instances scale to the group leaders level... it sounds more like you are asking for a 'difficulty setting'... which is a nice idea, but I don't recall any MMO out there having such a feature- just single player offline games. I could be wrong, but never seen an MMO with a difficulty setting."

A lot of people want this option and would not be as big of an undertaking as you might think. ESO already has this implemented already with instances in Main story/solo guests/group dungeons. It just needs expanded upon which ZOS is very capable of doing. A difficulty slider like in TES would not be logical for an MMO, but being able to choose from a Set number of difficulty setting's.. hard/med/easy as your entering a delv/dungeon would work well in conjunction with instances.