This is...endgame?

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Flaminir wrote: »

But the part about dropping the sub.... If that wasn't planned/predicted by them from day 1 then I'm a son of a Guar!

It was nothing to do with the relative success/failure of the game on PC.... it was everything to do with the charging model of Sony & Microsoft on console platforms, & they couldn't have different payment models across different platforms so had to bring PC in line with this.

They knew full well it would have to change when console came around

I've made that very same argument myself, more than once.

Of course that means they (Zeni senior staff and management) deliberately lied to the playerbase about the Sub model.

Zeni are caught on the horns of a dilemma of their own making: either dropping subs was always part of the plan, in which case they lied to their customers; or it wasn't, in which case their chosen business plan is failing.

Which do they fess up to?

All The Best

Enodoc

smokes wrote: »

granting VR10 through cadwells was the first step down the road to failure imo and still hasn't been fixed.

I think that alone would have been OK. It was when they introduced Craglorn as VR11 that the issues started.

rb2001

You don't HAVE to do anything.

Who said you have to do anything? Who said you have to go to the other zones at all? It is an option. You can also run dungeons.

Who said you have to rank up in the veteran ranks at all? Why do you feel like you have to?

sadownik

Flaminir wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Oh, boy! Another random person that wants to reach "the end" while still having 2/3 of fun in front of him?! Sweet Jesus.

Cadwells Silver/Gold are NOT fun.

They are cheap and lazy substitutes for real end-game content.

If I want to experience the main story arc of one of the other factions I'll go start a toon in that faction.

All The Best

Whilst I totally respect your choice on this & say just roll another character in that faction, you are totally dismissing the needs of a LOT of other players.

Most like having one main character.... one that they can do everything with, hence the name 'main'.

Now if they had started the game with no access to silver/gold as you suggest then I think most people would be very very annoyed that two thirds of the game content was locked out to them.

There's also practicalities.... like access to dungeons, skyshards, guild traders, better home town locations.

Without silver/gold access to those areas so much of the game would have to be changed, and it would be a very small & insular world.

I do think that there needs to be other options for levelling if you don't want to quest though silver/gold, there I Agree.

I udnerstand that need, but did it have to be within vet rank system? Why not making it like this : repsawn at lvl 1 with all the learned skill and skillpoints after finishing silver you get passive - nothing ground breaking but nice to have, same for gold. Its Z. faliure to implement any logical system to sliver/gold is main issue for me.

Elsonso

MaximusDargus wrote: »

I love caldwell silver and gold. I didnt spent my time playing game and exploring things just to be forced at some point to make new character just to explore another 1/3 of game and then do it again.

With caldwell silver and gold i have an OPTION! A POSSIBLITY to explore it while still NOT BEING FORCED to do it.
If you dont like caldwell silver and gold there is Craglorn and Cyriodiil with quests and exp.

One of the things that interested me about the game was that, with three Alliances, there would be three different leveling paths. Games like WoW have different leveling paths that can be taken, not only by faction, but within the faction.

ESO is young, and I can hope, but right now there are three progression paths, one for each Alliance, that differ a little in order but not content. The only thing that Cadwell does is cut the deck, but the cards are all the same.

I object to Cadwell for a couple of reasons. First, if I ever want to level a native and experience it first as a native, I need to do it before my Veteran gets there. Otherwise, it is just a lower level version of what me and my Veteran experienced. In any subsequent alternate characters that go to max Veteran Rank, the content will be the same and differ only in the order that I encounter zones.

Second, the Veteran zones for the other factions are not even from the other factions. They are imitation zones created solely for the purpose of me and my kin. Game design dictates that I am forced to go through them in a particular order because they are leveled to my Veteran Rank. Each Alliance has a different path through the other two factions and none of the paths intersect. There are three versions of every zone, two Veteran and one non-Veteran. While I am in a Veteran zone, every player in that zone is from my Alliance, no matter what zone I am in. Even common zones, like Coldharbour and Craglorn exist separately for each faction.

I play through the same content with every alt that I create, differing only in NPC/Monster level based on my starting Alliance, and the other faction zones are not even cross faction, they are still intended for my faction.

More than just Veteran Ranks, more than class balance, more than racial passives, more the VR16, more than problems with a runaway Champion System... Cadwell is the bane of my ESO existence. the one thing I stick my fingers in my ears and hum loudly when someone mentions.

LrdRahvin

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

But the part about dropping the sub.... If that wasn't planned/predicted by them from day 1 then I'm a son of a Guar!

It was nothing to do with the relative success/failure of the game on PC.... it was everything to do with the charging model of Sony & Microsoft on console platforms, & they couldn't have different payment models across different platforms so had to bring PC in line with this.

They knew full well it would have to change when console came around

I've made that very same argument myself, more than once.

Of course that means they (Zeni senior staff and management) deliberately lied to the playerbase about the Sub model.

Zeni are caught on the horns of a dilemma of their own making: either dropping subs was always part of the plan, in which case they lied to their customers; or it wasn't, in which case their chosen business plan is failing.

Which do they fess up to?

All The Best

You're making the assumption that they will/have to fess up to either.

They have a time-honored policy of simply saying nothing when they fail/lie/mislead their customers (take your pick from A,B, or C depending on the issue in question).

ElricFrancis

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies

That is why it's free to play. it's a single player game modded to be multiplayer. There is no end game because it's free to play. It also makes player with others a complete hassle.

Pman85

a simple google serach for ESO endgame could of prevented this thread.

Pman85

ElricFrancis wrote: »

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies

That is why it's free to play. it's a single player game modded to be multiplayer. There is no end game because it's free to play. It also makes player with others a complete hassle.

Hello Elric, no endgame you say? DO YOU EVEN ESO BRO! PvE and PvP endgame are going hard son. 12 man dungeons? Trials? DSA? come on maaaaaan

bertenburnyb16_ESO

LOL he hits vr1 and thinks hes at endgame
Funny stuff bro

bosmern_ESO

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies

End game currently is Vet dungeons, trials (Like raids), DragonStar Arena, and PvP.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Pman85 wrote: »

a simple google serach for ESO endgame could of prevented this thread.

Maybe.

But a google search for "working, viable, fun ESO endgame" is probably what led to the thread.

Both of these are food:

ESO Endgame:

Fun Endgame:

But do you really, really want the ESO emergency ration end-game?

All The Best

Faugaun

Flaminir wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Oh, boy! Another random person that wants to reach "the end" while still having 2/3 of fun in front of him?! Sweet Jesus.

Cadwells Silver/Gold are NOT fun.

They are cheap and lazy substitutes for real end-game content.

If I want to experience the main story arc of one of the other factions I'll go start a toon in that faction.

All The Best

Whilst I totally respect your choice on this & say just roll another character in that faction, you are totally dismissing the needs of a LOT of other players.

Most like having one main character.... one that they can do everything with, hence the name 'main'.

Now if they had started the game with no access to silver/gold as you suggest then I think most people would be very very annoyed that two thirds of the game content was locked out to them.

There's also practicalities.... like access to dungeons, skyshards, guild traders, better home town locations.

Without silver/gold access to those areas so much of the game would have to be changed, and it would be a very small & insular world.

I do think that there needs to be other options for levelling if you don't want to quest though silver/gold, there I Agree.

You also shouldn't have to do the 50ish mandatory silver quests to unlock gold. I.E. reach 50 beat the last boss talk to Caldwell unlock access to the other 10 zones....no required quests.

Pman85

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Pman85 wrote: »

a simple google serach for ESO endgame could of prevented this thread.

Maybe.

But a google search for "working, viable, fun ESO endgame" is probably what led to the thread.

Both of these are food:

ESO Endgame:

Fun Endgame:

But do you really, really want the ESO emergency ration end-game?

All The Best

BBSooner

I realize how odd it is to finish the main storyline (6 zones) and still have 11 more zones worth of questing/grinding to reach endgame. It don't enjoy it either, nor does it particularly make sense.

Sallington

BBSooner wrote: »

I realize how odd it is to finish the main storyline (6 zones) and still have 11 more zones worth of questing/grinding to reach endgame. It don't enjoy it either, nor does it particularly make sense.

Agreed. The 1-50 story was so good. That's where the leveling should have ended, and we should have entered the "end game". The other two faction quest lines should have served as single-player end game content.

I also think how they seem to just give away epic gear is part of the problem. There's basically no gear progression, which normally gives end game a lot of it's longevity.

AlnilamE

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies

As others have said, you don't *have* to.

What would you like to be doing? That is the real question.

At V1, you can totally cut your teeth on the Vet dungeons and also do the normal Undaunted Pledges. They will give you good experience of group mechanics and help you fine-tune your character.

You can also go to Craglorn and try some of the quests there (at your level I would recommend a full group of 4).

You can go to Cyrodiil and PvP or do the PvE there.

And you can hop over to the Silver zones and just explore a bit or maybe do a quest hub or two if you feel like it.

I have a V14 who has barely finished Silver, a V10 who just got to zone 5 of silver and a V6 who is in zone 1 of Silver. I quest when I feel like it, but usually just do things with my guild. I don't feel I have to quest to level, but it is nice to quest when the mood strikes.

I don't know Destiny, but there are three 12-man raids (v12+ recommended but not entirely mandatory).

Gorthax

oh god........he mentioned the D game.........*vomits*

DenMoria

VincentBlanquin wrote: »

feel your pain fresh vr1 consoleros. my advice? diversity what you are doing, go to cyrodiil too, in cities there are quests too

Query: now that I have access to Cyrodil on all my toons, is all the content group or PvP oriented? I like solo stuff.

Rinmaethodain

By cyriodiil acces you mean you reached lvl10 on every character? Because thats when you gain access to alliance war.

Lvl 10s will be battle leveld to lvl 50 to remain competetive (and soon battle leveling will go all the way up to VR14). So you wont go there with like 2k health but more than 20k as result of battle leveling.

But anyways, cyrodil is mostly pvp group content. Its hard to do anything there alone but it is possible.

There is also PVE content there that depending on your build might be good for solo or not. There are quest hubs, with 10 quests each, where finishing quest gives almost 8k exp. Also lot of dungeons and skyshards.

DenMoria

MaximusDargus wrote: »

By cyriodiil acces you mean you reached lvl10 on every character? Because thats when you gain access to alliance war.

Lvl 10s will be battle leveld to lvl 50 to remain competetive (and soon battle leveling will go all the way up to VR14). So you wont go there with like 2k health but more than 20k as result of battle leveling.

But anyways, cyrodil is mostly pvp group content. Its hard to do anything there alone but it is possible.

There is also PVE content there that depending on your build might be good for solo or not. There are quest hubs, with 10 quests each, where finishing quest gives almost 8k exp. Also lot of dungeons and skyshards.

So I need to stay away from Cyrodil until level 50 or over? I know there's a lot to do, but, if I'm stuck in my little group of lands or islands, I'm really going to get bored. I do not do the same areas, delves and battles over and over and over. That's pointless. If I have to wait until I'm level 50 or over and wait until I have 20K in health, I'm never going to Cyrodil and I'll get bored and drop this game.

Too bad everything is PvP. The last thing I want is for other players to constantly be killing me because they can. I get enough of those attempts in the beginning areas. If all of Cyrodil is like that. Forget it.

FireCowCommando

One of my friends bought console, called me a few days ago telling me hes level 47 and ready to do all the cool endgame stuff with me. Then i reminded him hes got another month+ of playing before he can start really doing things with my maxed out character i transferred

I dont think anyone is suprised to hear he swore a bit and was not all to happy.

Rinmaethodain

No you understood me wrong. You can go to cyriodiil at any lvl, because even if you are lvl 10 with 2k health there is a system in game called battle leveling, that will increase your stats to be equal of lvl 50 so you will then actually have like 20k hp in cyriodiil.

I also dont like PVP and did all cyriodiil content solo. You just have to watch out. There are three factions, red, blue and yellow. Its going to be obvious that when map is dominated by enemy color you can die a lot. But its not a rule. You can do PVE content in cyriodiil safely staying away from fight zones.

There is only bunch of *** who would run around map trying to kill random people doing quests in there. And those people who do quests there usually also want to finish them in peace so as long as you dont attack them (and for safety stay hidden) they wont harm you.

Look at map if there is lot of your color, avoid fight zones (keeps) and keep low profile.

ElricFrancis

Pman85 wrote: »

ElricFrancis wrote: »

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies

That is why it's free to play. it's a single player game modded to be multiplayer. There is no end game because it's free to play. It also makes player with others a complete hassle.

Hello Elric, no endgame you say? DO YOU EVEN ESO BRO! PvE and PvP endgame are going hard son. 12 man dungeons? Trials? DSA? come on maaaaaan

what do you get for a reward for doing them? any of them? some scraps of armor for a mount? Stuff I could create that is superior (from what I heard) why do trials why do any of it with no carrot reward? Motivation son. Nothing to motivate except sheer bordom. There is far better MMos out for console that can provide better end content.

But I hope your right cause all I hear is complaints about end game and Vet ranks is the worse yet of any end game content. Vet ranks sounds like destiny end game. All grind.

Wheelhouse413

Alphashado wrote: »

uriangelub17_ESO wrote: »

So once you reach level cap, you need to start all over again and reach another level cap?

I love this comment. One small sentence so nicely summarizes how ridiculous the Veteran System is.

Regardless how us ESO vets view them. Some of us have even grown numb to them to the point of grudging acceptance. But this one one comment so eloquently depicts the average new players reaction to Vet Ranks once they begin to understand the scenario and it truly begins to sink in.

Yeah, I'm a console player, 45 almost 46, and have done all AD content (bar a few dungeons and getting Malabar Tor quest and skyshard achieves - have other 4 zones done - THANK YOU fortress on the hill guy!), and have 2 FG and like 5 main quest quests left to do, and reading about how you progress in "end-game" is demoralizing. I just unlocked the undaunted, so maybe that's fun?

But starting over in the newbie zones of either EB or DC doesn't sound appealing to me at all.

The most fun, to me, aspect of ESO is the AvAvA stuff, but it seems like you want to be either under 50 (for the non-vet campaigns) or vr14 (seems there's no buffs on the vr campaigns). Having played a a bit of AvAvA (rank is veteran), xp seems slower there than PvE.

I guess I was expecting the "end game" to be more like an MMO instead of a single player RPG. Since I've been playing ESO, I've been also playing quite a bit of Skyrim (Oblivion is not installed on my PC), and ESO's single player content is not nearly as interesting as Skyrim's (the quests are better with the voice acting, but everything is so EASY here).

Playing ESO just reminds me how much I like the Elder Scrolls world and gameplay, and also how much I miss playing MMOs (played UO, AC 1, EQ 2, FFXI, WoW and many in between - last being GW2). It's sad how, IMO, and Elder Scrolls MMO doesn't really capture the essence of Elder Scrolls games OR the essence of MMOs.

At least that's my impression so far - the MMO part is definitely hampered by the terrible communication options on the PS4. Voice chat only, can only listen to EITHER party OR guild chat (and only 1 guild at a time), auto-forced area voice, and no text chat.

BBSooner

Sallington wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

I realize how odd it is to finish the main storyline (6 zones) and still have 11 more zones worth of questing/grinding to reach endgame. It don't enjoy it either, nor does it particularly make sense.

Agreed. The 1-50 story was so good. That's where the leveling should have ended, and we should have entered the "end game". The other two faction quest lines should have served as single-player end game content.

I agree. The main story was great, and designing the leveling process around it ending after 1/3 of the zones are completed (RE: required for somebody to level via questing) is pretty asinine. Though VR is the fault of the beta community throwing tantrums about experiencing the whole world on one character on launch instead of properly implementing the exploration down the road, it's ZOS' fault for starving the game of content and requiring what should be, as you said, single-player endgame.

Noomfy-Mop

sadownik wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Oh, boy! Another random person that wants to reach "the end" while still having 2/3 of fun in front of him?! Sweet Jesus.

2/3 of fun? For me questing fun ended at lvl 50. Not onyl the few thousands yers old tradition of story telling was broken (great finale, epic enemy defeated), but you can clearly see that quests in other factions werent ean to be done on 1 character from the designers point - to much copy pasta.

But as my late gradfather liked to say - "Some like chocolate, others - when their feet smell."

Mmmmm.
I do enjoy a good copy pasta

F7sus4

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Cadwells Silver/Gold are NOT fun.

Should be: "In my humble opinion Cadwells Silver/Gold are NOT fun."

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

They are cheap and lazy substitutes for real end-game content.

Should be: "They are on the way before reaching real end-game content."

Beesting

Dcaliber wrote: »

So I just hit vr1 and was pretty happy. Then I saw that I have to visit EVERY zone to level up to vr 13 or 14. Why?
What do I do after I hit vr13? Are there raids like Destiny?
I like this game, it helps me get my TES fix but I don't think I can quest this long.
Thanks lads/ladies

Back in the day when there was still a LOL button, you would have gotten so many lol's that you would have leveled to forum endgame in one go with this question xD

GreySix

uriangelub17_ESO wrote: »

So once you reach level cap, you need to start all over again and reach another level cap?

Yep.



That's the modus operandi of MMOs, wherein "end-game" is incompatible.

Else, how will they get you to keep throwing money at it?